The Failure of Game of Thrones Season 8... 5 Years Later 

yeah it isn't great lol

​@@thegoldman25 bran shouldn't have been named king. It should've went to Jon cause of his Targaryen heritage.

@@kdusel1991 well I’m sure GRRM will make Bran’s Ending make senses

​@@kdusel1991 Within the books, I fully believe it will be Bran who rules Westeros (most likely from the Isle of Faces if KL is destroyed). It would be very GRRM, the only one capable of ruling would be the one who has no humanity.

I literally laughed out loud when they panned over to Bran. And then “Bran the Broken” I was absolutely floored with how ridiculous it all was. And then Sansa being given the North with absolutely no pushback from anyone 😂 I hoped we’d find out bran was just the one eyed raven who’d been scheming since before he even became one eyed crow / raven whatever. Saw some good in deep geek videos about that possibility.

justice i guess

It does annoy me they are now doing another book adaptation series of a very popular trilogy.

@@mordecaiissad8529 Which one?

@@dannytheman1313 the 3 body problem, the first season is out already

@@mordecaiissad8529 I only got through the first episode didn't realize it was them. Books were already hard enough to get through. Between all the Asian names and the VR section that goes on for freaking ever.

I did like that last shot of drogon extending his wings as she came down the destroyed red keep. That was pretty cool. Other than that the finale was dog shit

she did have killer outfits ngl

The production crew deserves all the praise in the world for the set design and costumes. Them and the actors are the only reason the show remained somewhat believable when the nonsensical writing took over.

@@senjuguy Whoever handled the lighting on the Night King episodes had a vendetta on the other production staff though. Couldn't see shit.

Thank god for Michele Clapton

After killing the night king, Jamie travels south with Daenery's army to capture Cerci, they capture her after the battle but when he finds out they are going to execute her he draws his sword and dies fighting Brienne.

This is such a great idea! I’d not heard Jamie suggested as the Night King killer before, it’s too perfect. I think I would’ve kept him alive though. Staying on as Lord Commander with his brother as Hand and dedicating his life to the king he tried to kill as a child.

Totally agree. There’s no consequences for her actions at all during the later seasons which is what the earlier seasons were all about. Like she blows up the sept and nothing happens after. No conflict or anything. Shes just crowned as queen and goes on. So frustrating

Exactly and the fact she never used the wildfire again. Like we KNOW it's there because for some reason they had little explosions of it during the Bells episode.

Well Cersei has less money not “no money” the mines ran out of gold not all its other resources, hence why she’s a Silver Queen. She also blew up the great sept…though there’s no proof (everyone would suspect though) so most other major powers would be scrambling to fill the power gap. The people hated her but the army was mostly intact so she had guards and plenty of fear to control the common folk.

Plus technically she’s the “dowager queen” still. Technically.

Exactly. All she had was the Mountain. He’s not enough to have an entire country submit to a stupid queen.

She did us all a favor by making it seem like s8 was trash

It's hilarious how so many of the cast knew something rotten was coming. Poor them. And us viewers and fans. A travesty through and through.

It was more like “BeSt SeAsOn EvEr!” Lol she knew that shit was assssssss

😂😅😂

Its a shame that she was in so many mediocre to bad tv shows or movies despite shes the best part of each I'm glad it didn't ruin her career because it's not really on her

That's honestly it. I was genuinely willing to forgive soooo many of their mistakes as long as they stuck the landing. And then they did... that. And I knew there could be no room for forgiveness...

They should of made a book accurate winterfell. Book winterfell is massive has two massive walls with a moat in between them the gods woods has a diameter of 3 acres and the castle completely surrounds it If they made a book accurate winterfell the final battle there would of made more sense cause they would have more room for men and the night king would of had to go through the castle to get to the gods woods where bran was at.

It was the dragon getting sniped for me.

The wight hunt in S7 was as bad as anything in S8, and so was the Winterfell plot with Littlefinger-Sansa- Arya. People feel more bitter about S8 because it was more definitive and that's understandable, but it didn't suddenly get so much worse right then.

The show pretty much ended after she killed the NK. I thought "am I seriously supposed to believe Cersei is the final boss now, after almost a Fing zombie apocalypse". I forced myself to watch the rest of the show because of all of the time I already have put into it.

Agreed 👍 that would have been good but I still think Jon should have directed it. The night king was his adversary, so if he’d shouted to Jamie to get him instead of shouting at a dead dragon like an idiot 🥺

@@zarabee2880 I dislike this take because the others / WWs are the adversary of everyone. People just focus on Jon because of Hardhome. In my opinion that’s another detractor to the show - they clearly set up as a 1v1. There’s not even a Night King in the books

Good old Golden Hand the Just.

I would’ve loved the night king slayer, but the NKs kings guard should’ve had 1v1 with the key players. There was enough glory to go around. Brianne, Jamie, gray worm, Arya, hound, the little bear and Theon should’ve each taken down a kings guard, with John taking down the NK with Brans help. Also, no wargs in this fight? No dire wolves?

Imagine he survives the fight with the night king, dawn begins and as he rises from the rubble, bleeding and stumbling, the sun shining behind his back, the survivors chant: "hail to the king slayer"

It has been!

Yup. I remember so clearly. I was pregnant with my daughter at the time and couldn't drink myself to sleep after I watched the final episode.

​@@jessjess23brooks89 Damn😂kinda glad i didnt follow the series back then, cant imagine the dissapointment.

Yup, since endgame too

Covid really threw off the timeline

Yeah. The fact he wants it is the source of a lot of the tension, and removing it ends that.

I think that's why Jon was always going to fail in the show, as well as Tyrion in a way. They never understood the complexity of their characters and the arcs they were going on.

Yeah. It’s like they were trying to hammer home the fact that he was embittered by the decisions he’s had to make and doesn’t want to lead because of it but then neglect that while he was embittered he’s always picked himself up and tried to move on to help more people. There’s hints of that in the show but it’s more openly begrudging. The show runners finalizing the decision to have Jon not be king is still inconsistent though 😂😂😂 Since show Jon still is the type to take up the task, he’d just brood more. It’d make sense that he has Sansa be an advisor for a while, then going on to Tyrion once he’s proved his loyalty. Gendry becoming a lord makes sense, so many little things aren’t necessarily wrong (besides the blood riders, unless Jon says someone sniped her) but so many BIG THINGS make no sense.

​@@Ashbrash1998 I think you could say the same about most of the characters

I think it's going to go mostly the same in the books, only it'll make more sense. At the beginning of the story, Jon only wants to rule because of how he was raised. He doesn't know anything else to want. He only wants it because everyone else around him wants it, and even just expects it. Up until he joins the Night's Watch, he's only ever known lords and heirs, and so that's who he compares himself to. Stannis's offer was a struggle for him right up until the moment another option came along. Then he happily threw Stannis's offer away in favor of the alternative. In his heart, Jon really wants to be free. Not "free" the way he was north of the Wall in Storm of Swords, where he was just a different kind of prisoner. Jon wants to be free from the demands of duty and honor. One of the lesser-discussed themes of the books is that Jon is in the process of becoming everyone's heir or everyone's second choice. I suspect that when all is said and done, much as he became Lord Commander, Jon will be king by virtue of being the one person with a claim that the others object to least. If we look at the Hour of the Wolf from the Dance of the Dragons as a model, Jon may only be king for a day, or king for an hour, before he abdicates. Given the chance, Jon will choose total freedom over power. And when he abdicates, that makes Bran - the heir to everyone else's heir - the new king.

Jenny of Oldstones.

“Dany kinda forgot about the Iron Fleet”

Ah, here we go, you didn't understand the ending, so you compensated your frustration with memes instead of trying to understand the story.

@@Batist13 Oh you mean a story that was basically dead that a majority of people agree it was a shit ending oh yeah i understand the ending. Eight years of time and investment gone to waste and two writers that ran out of material to adapt cause they caught up where the author left off. As they wanted to go and do other projects like Starwars which went nowhere.

@@silentecho92able Ah the famous theory of hater lore which starts from the postulate that the ending is botched, and therefore that the creators needed a reason to sabotage their life's work. Even GRRM said the ending was fine, sorry, be careful with HotD, Ryan is a fan of season 8, rightly so.

People say this as if Jaime didn't kill multiple innocents for Cersei.

​​@@YouScareMe1Jaime was a bad person thanks to his toxic relationship with cersei and his family but his POV in the books really illuminates how serious Jaime's psychology is, and how his unseriousness is a defensive front. Jaime took being a kings guard and an "honorable" knight very seriously as a kid. Once his dreams were flipped upside down by everyone seeing his literal saving of the entire realm as dishonorable murder, it logically soured his character. Aerys was going to destroy kings landing and Jaime killed him because of it. He cares deeply about the innocent more than he allowed himself to realize for a major part of his life

Exactly, and then later Littlefinger brought an army to defeat the Boltons anyway, so none of that made any sense.

He did it to extablish Sansa as a foothold in the North. He didn't intend to give Sansa away permanently. He expected Stannis to win against the Boltons. No matter how much Littlefinger claimed to love someone, his ambitions came first. This was addressed at Winterfell when he stood accused of betraying the Stark family.

Same. It didn't occur to me either but it would've been a great full circle moment, certainly better then what we got.

@@roguechevelle anything would beat what we got!!! Still so disappointed after 5 years hahaha

jamie should of killed cersi. That is what is prophesied in the book.

Jaime kills the NK in this alt ending posted 2 yrs ago: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-KEHnDXfSxn0.htmlsi=o9aRG96zxT09Wjl5

Jamie should have kill Cersei, that was the logic ending of their arc: a cursed love. Killing the NK then why not to finish a redemtpion arc, but that would make him the big hero of the story which is a little bit weird considering is a selfless child killer.

On iPhone, when you pull up the tab to write a comment, it dims the video playing above, so I kept thinking that I had the comment bar open, then realizing it was just the bad lighting

Classical education is a cover for freemasonry

It does hurt! Every time I get an inkling of may be rewatching, all those memories flood in and i Just cant!

Honestly, a full-on downer ending where the Night King wins and takes the iron throne before freezing Westeros in an eternal winter would have been better than the ending we got. If any series could have pulled off an unironic tragic finale it was Game of Thrones. Everyone had the chance to work against a common foe, they rejected that offer over their own petty squabbles, and the full tragic ending is just the natural and expected conclusion.

@@dracodracarys2339 nah. It should be bittersweet. A large enough loss but enough hope too

That would have been very interesting

"One hand is all that is needed." Syrio Forel, first conversation with Arya.

They had that arc in the bag and completely fumbled 😂 It was like they purposely tried to ruin him along with the entire show itself 🤣

This, among many other things, was an egregious mistake. The Cersei prophecy should have been followed and we should have seen Jamie sacrifice himself again for the good of the realm instead we got the shit we got. Dumb dumb dumb D and D.

A satisfying ending to Jamie's arc would have been if he killed Cersei..

​@@peepinRAnd the fact they broke their rule of no flashbacks (Bran was an exception) to show that scene and then it never mean anything at all.

"nothing else matter." Jaime is perfect. GoT's ending is a masterpiece.

Yeah, so frustrating

On that note.. Brienne. Goodness me what sheer insult to her character. She would've grabbed her sword and fight Jamie to the death before letting him go back to Cersei.

I think Tyrion is the 3rd dragon rider..explains his bond with Jon from the start and Dani and the true reason Tywin hated him..not for being a dwarf, but for not being his actual biological son, but his best friend's son who was obsessed with his wife..

@@kimbervoss3753 i think so too

He might actually be a Targaryen but that’s not even relevant to all the ways the writers destroyed his arc

@@mattfoulgerBC they destroyed everyone's ark , by season 5 . When Barriston died , especially when brianne killed stannis i remember telling myself if stannis dies to Brianne hand im done with the show than season 6 actually was decent and i had some hope in it again . Fun fact i ate mushrooms during season 8 episode 3 and it wasn't dark at all and it was actually ok because of the shrooms for like a few months . i had projectile skeletons flying out my windows all over the corner when i pulled up haha so it actually made it better

"who's gonna ride the third dragon then?" "oops i kinda forgot. idk, just have him die or smth"

Yeah, but then how would a woman be shown as more powerful than a man?

@@darkglass1 Dragons and incest.

Disney fanservice dumb idea.

Jaime uses his golden hand to grab the night king's spear when he attacks and gold being a good conductor of heat takes longer to freeze over and shatter giving Jamie time to attack.

Dude it is necassary for the night king to be killed by the dagger. only an assassin is able to kill him and that would be a faceless one as the night king can see everything

Exactly. I was pretty sure she killed her baby with Robert.

I think the second change is fine. I think the book cersei is a bit too evil in her back stories. That being said, getting rid of that Maggie the frog prophecy bit was a travesty.

​@alisade127 Jaime gets a woman to "cleanse her" which probably means giving her some kind of abortifacient like Moon tea

Bran wouldn’t have been king for the rest of his life. IIRC he sets in place a democracy after. Having Sansa secede with the rest of the North as their queen prevents any southerners from lording over them in the future.

That's what I'm saying - D&D wanted a "everybody wins" ending but an independent North with a Stark king of the South doesn't work - ESPECIALLY with how it was set up. It's like if in our world the US senate elects the Senator of Ohio to be president. Then after all is said an done the governor of Ohio has the state become an independent country. I know my example is crude and historically there are a few decent examples, but as a fantasy it's sloppy.

Literally every Kingdom would demand independence the moment she did, Also wtf isn't there A Stark at Winterfell In the finally?, oh right they kinda forgot.

It's like when you find out coca cola owns all the god damn sodas

Bran has not a lot of power in the South as most weir trees were destroyed down there or never existed (Dorne). He is basically just a kid with no knowledge of politics or running a kingdom because his education and social development stopped around 9 years old to become a ward.

I enjoyed season 5 and 6. But yeah season 4 was my favorite

i'm still a 5 and 6 supporter

@@thegoldman25 sure they were better than the last two but you could already tell things were going off road. + The spirit of the series was changing for something more ''big mindless epic battle yeahhhh'''

Yep

You're right

🔥

That, or having Rhaegal die DURING the siege on King's Landing. Losing another of her dragon children is the last straw and she and Drogon both avenge their fallen brother/child with fire and fury.

It gives me chills too! Thanks for watching!

​​@@thegoldman25I was disagreeing with you saying it doesn't make sense to have Arya kill the Night King, (I mean, I'm not married to the idea of her doing it and was open to almost anyone else) I just wanted the books to flesh that whole thing out more. But when you said it should be Jamie Lannister, bravo sir, bravo! That is just absolute poetry. Yes, it absolutely should be Jamie Lannister, the Night King Slayer. That idea completely removed my interference about Arya being the slayer and put me 100% all in on your take.

A S8 alt ending exists where Jaime kills the NK: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-KEHnDXfSxn0.htmlsi=o9aRG96zxT09Wjl5

Absolutly not. If you want Disney ending without meaning, juste watch Disney.

@@thegoldman25 Sweet Disney summer child. You didnt understand Jaime or GoT.

I agree. I remember waiting for the next season to come out year at time.

Haters did that, not her.

Yes, the mangling of the Dorne faction was the beginning of the end. Not seeing Dorne with Doran, Arianne, Darkstar and the real Sand snakes scheming their own way would've been delightful to watch. And to see them join the rest of Westeros in the fight for Kings Landing and then outright survival would've been more delightful. D and D failed at a hall of fame level that they deserve their own wing.

S5 was the beginning of the end. They abandoned the source material. Lady Stoneheart being written out was the first sign.

S5 was okayish but S6 and S7 felt not at all at that level. S7 howrver added some slinghtly interesting things back. S8 was just a bad end in a lot of ways. A lot of characters out of role. However this is complaining on high level

HotD = GoT = GoT Season 8 Amateurs.

To be fair, Seasons 6 and 7 at least *felt* they were building up to something big, and then...season 8 fails to deliver and gives a disappointing payoff.

That's crazy! And phantom menace isn't great, but imho attack of the clones is the worst prequel film. I just dislike it so much

Endgame came out the same weekend as the long night, I'll never forget that weekend

​@@thegoldman25 Endgame was also a far better finale! I saw it in the theatre with friends of mine that week. Infinity war is my favorite avengers film but Endgame is right up there after that. Super curious what avengers 5 and 6 are gonna do but I doubt they'll be as good.

Ok so may 19 is cursed 😂😂😂

Idk our ages but I just went to TPM’s 25 year rerelease and had a great time. The dialogue is horrendous but otherwise it’s great fun. And 4-6’s dialogue was also terrible, and delivery also pretty awful of it sometimes… Liam Neeson and Harrison Ford complained equally that “people just don’t talk this way,” “people just don’t do these things”… I was

I think that as well. I don't think D&D ever really understood it. In beginning they tried and were good at it, but eventually they just cherrypicked certain parts and ignored the rest and in the end it didn't make sense anymore.

@@Ashbrash1998 do you think that's also why Martin is having difficulties wrapping the books? Not just narrative wise, but also thematically? Honestly, I don't know how he'll squeeze what's left into just two books. There has to be an 8th book if he wants do it properly.

Both GRRM and HBO wanted 10-13 seasons (George said it would need at Least 10) but Dumb n Dumber wanted out and refused to hand the show over so they rushed the ending. 4 seasons crammed into 13 episodes.

I think you are right with regards to sticking the landing in the books themselves (which are much more sprawling with more characters and storylines), but I think the show is an example of creator/showrunner hubris. The acclaim D&D got for Game of Thrones earned them a Star Wars trilogy deal and I think them looking to exit the series quickly to work on SW rather than hand the reins to others really had a butterfly effect. The most damning evidence is them turning down a higher episode count for the final seasons. HBO willing to continue to pay for an incredibly expensive show and they said no thank you? One of many bad decisions.

@@Modulater83 I totally agree. D&D let it all go to their heads and didn’t appreciate what they had created and how rare the opportunity was to continue this amazing show to the proper finish line. That show was and will be the biggest cultural phenomenon of their lives, not just the writers but also the main cast as well. They had the popularity, they had the funding, they could have created the best TV show of all time. Instead they squandered a rare opportunity, ruined the show and ruined their reputations along with it. So much for there Star Wars trilogy or any other future projects with HBO.

I completely agree about Arya and Lady Stoneheart. Also, Arya's arc in the books points to unfinished business with her mother--book Arya was always relatively insecure about her relationship with Cat and then as her story goes on she feels like her mother wouldn't want her anymore if she knows what she's done, and it's Nymeria who pulls Catelyn's body out of the river for the Brotherhood to find. I really think their stories will converge in the Riverlands and Arya just slaughtering all the Freys in one huge spectacle is what's left of an absolutely critical climax in Arya's whole arc, only with everything that would have made it meaningful gutted out of it.

I hate how gutted SO MUCH from the books that were essential to character arcs. Like I can understand cutting the fat of the book but they just ripped pages out and had characters bumbling around.

Honestly I think Aryas killing of the Freys in the show was unjust too. Its played as this great moment but there’s no way everyone in that family was evil and in the books were even shown that the Rosby Freys all had to be sent away from the wedding because they couldn’t be trusted to betray Robb.

@@scoliosis9478 It was unjust, but the show didn't portray it as such or delve into the unjust nature aspect as the books did/will

Please explain for us laymen what all these acronyms mean?

His music was the one aspect of this show that was consistently on point from beginning to end.

​@@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343 agreed, we are so blessed to have him continuing with HOTD

As a really surface level show watcher, I highly doubt it. Some of you really take in the details in the writing, the music, the wardrobe, etc. But in my experience, most people just watch the show. If there is something exciting, that's good enough. Given the fact that GOT had such a serious fan base, it makes sense to me that so many hate the ending. And I bet the people who think it was good are people like me who just watch the show and if we walked away feeling like we watched something good, then we say it was good. I personally doubt anyone who thinks the later parts of the show are good is thinking "But did you hear the music bro" The people who even thought about that were probably aware enough to know how shitty the ending was

@@godwarrior3403 It makes a very big impact subconsciously. Sure they may not be actively thinking about it, but the music was the only part of GoT that was always top notch quality imo

​@@godwarrior3403You underestimate the effect of a soundtrack. It can make a scene that's chilling and horrific feel triumphant. A scene can be made funny or depressing just by the soundtrack. It's a huge part of Framing and storytelling that most of us don't notice.

You and so many people where wrong... Any after five years the last season still make me feel empty and disappointing.

A lot of people dont know or acknowledge that. They ("they" being the dumber portion of the fan base) love that arc and think the ending of it was "badass" instead of predictable and bad. He should have included Littlefinger in his list because D&D most definitely did him dirty too.

I didn't like that Littlefinger gave Sansa to the Boltons, makes zero sense, however, I will defend the fact that she was abused. I mean.. it's game of thrones, and Ramsay was a real monster compared to Joffrey. There is no other way, if the showrunners for some reason decided that Sansa marries a Bolton, it HAD to end this way, otherwise it wouldn't be the GOT as we know.

Here's to House of the Dragon!

Lol, you're not ready for HotD ending.

Damn never thought of Jamie being the one to off the night king. Man I’m totally here for it.

I can spend an entire day HATING the atrocius final season. I hope someone has a whole group of that or something lol

For real, to this day I don't understand why they even added it. I think the point was to do some sort of "counter" redemption where he actually didn't care about saving the innocent people, only Cersei. It still doesn't really work, but it could have been an interesting angle if set up properly

Cercei never could keep power even 1 week after her sons died....... In medieval times every village lord has a small army. It takes convincing most of them you are #1 in line to rule. Robert led a alliance and didn't conquer he just let Jamie kill the king and then the families decided Robert was harmless enough so was a safe choice. Just saying his bloodline and prestige is low and not like the Targareans. With him and his children dead, Cersei had no claim to even having anyone to take over power. This in medieval times means quick rebellion with each village noble who had no good math skills seeing if maybe they could gain independence and stop paying the 25% the upper nobles demanded including Robert.. You need overwhelming by 3x army or great prestige and likability and blood priority, she had neither. In real life there would be half civil war and all travel stopping once last Prince was dead, Cersei with no teen boy offered nothing and would be killed by a Baratheon noble who'd proclaim her a witch and he would grab that province. In the longer term with no Targarean the land would revert back 200 years to 10 independent kingdoms. When Rome fell, or Charlemagne's German empire fell, no one let his wife continue, they broke off with a smile and formed Bavaria, Prussia, Netherlands, N. Italy, Burgundy, and 10 others, without a warrior king you don't keep together half a medieval continent.... Most in westeross probably are different dialect so have no wish to remain joined, the Scots even when they learned bad English still resisted English rule till their Scot King inherited the London throne. . . . That would be cool book, post all princes dead we have 10 lil kingdoms and Dany and Jon need to unify them again.. Dany in Essos saw nobles were not needed, cities had councils and not nobles. This was due to lack of farmland but it still would make her see a huge nobility is optional. She was a crusader. She freed slaves in Essos. In Westeross she would've have burnt the top 5% who leach off rest as aristocrats. She would be Pol Pot. Only that would make Jon consider killing her, he was a northern idiot who secretly loved being a noble, and Dany was takking that away. Medieval times lasted cuz there's always idiots who will kill the reformers and peasants in exchange for feeling mighty and taking over as middle lords to some lying bishop or king. Medieval ways NEVER ended in Europe by choice, the English started the industrial revolution which led to cities and after 1600 the cities became dominant and the nobles just were ignored.. Dany with dragons alone had chance of killing enough nobles, that would be good crusade, all nobles were torturers and taxed half the people made, kill em all, Stark, Lannister, Vale, etc.....

Agreed..a tension was built up between Jon and the Night King..they were too aware of each other, too many stare-downs and zero resolution with that..

Yeah..nah.

They could have at least made it a reference to Ned fighting Arthur Dayne. Like have Jon fight the Night King, be about to lose than someone saves him like Howland Reed saved Ned, which led to Jon being found

That's what I was thinking as well. If Jamie died killing the Night King, he wouldn't be able to experience life as the hero he became. It's poetic justice after what he did to Bran. Also, he wouldn't have been able to build a life with Brienne after they fell in love. That's part of the bittersweet ending GRRM is shooting for.

RRMartin tried for realism. With children dead and her hated and female, well its 100% likely Cersei wouldn't keep army and Lannister and Baratheon lords loyal for a month. Knights were brutal selfish and abandoned leaders without heir instantly... They planned for decades and no heir was huge factor..... Only ummmm Jamie as known Lannister and warrior maybe could grab throne and lock up Cersei if needed, and marry ummm Sansa and agree she rules north and he rest, now that's the only non silly plot. Cersei power was over once children dead, she clearly had no long range future and all lords knew that then. . . . Just ignoring medieval politics robbed last seasons of believability, in season 1 even Ned didn't ask his wife for permission for stuff, and jumping to season 7 and ruling queen was silly.... In the HBO Dragon series even a Queen with dragon and history of fighting on the dragon, and living sons and liked is having issues CAUSE SHES A WOMEN. Cersei in reality as ruling queen is silly they'd rebel and abandon her

@@Nita_Key absolutely

Cersei however would do some mad queen stuff in the book when she burns the tower of the hand with wildfire she is excited and even Jamie saw that Aerys look in her eyes and was freaked out. I hate how they ended Jamie’s story like that when it’s obvious he’s not going back for her in the books.

@@ACinemafanatic yes true but she would have reason to burn KL like Maggie's prophecy or her want for power (iron throne) or want to prove ppl wrong who pited her gender & didn't gave her any chance. Rather than reasoning as just cuz... Or them bell triggered genes moment. I'm calling no reason or a just cuz reason here lazy, Which is often used for these characters.

5 flies too fast

And yet.. and yet, these were the longest 5 years in recent history.

The heartbreak never got away. It's like Frodo getting PTSD after his ordeal.

I’m so grateful for HotD cuz I miss GoT too

​@@thegoldman25 I miss it too! Super curious about the tales of dunk and egg show that they're gonna do! I love HotD!

by the end of both shows HoTD will be considered the better of the two shows , clearly and it's because they know the ending and there not gonna diverge from the story . Season 2 of Hotd will be the best season of either show since season 4 of game of thrones and i think it'll be the consensus of the people

HoTD is not even close to early seasons GOT

Hotd is boring. Its just a decently written fantasy show. Its just not bad like season 7-8 of GoT.

You are so welcome!

Yeah, I too was wondering why he said that. I get the point that it should be a moral conflict for vengeful characters to consider. The book describes how every male Frey was involved in the plotting of the Red Wedding. Arya is the character I identify most with and she deserves better. Yet her arc cannot be just a fulfilment of revenge fantasies, she should face growing challenges with every revenge.

And the sad part is, that fans would have been 100% with Tyrion if they did follow it through. Because if we love a character enough we will follow them a descent into villany. And Tyrion with all the crap he's been given has plenty of reasons. Like amp his misery in jail, reflecting on his life and how the only person who cares is Jamie (make him doubt Sansa cared since she left as soon as she could) and then do the Tysha reveal and his breakdown. I wonder if part of their reasons for not doing it was because they didn't want fans to turn to flip on Jamie again.

Tyrion was always jerk, it's part of why we loved him in the first place.

They weren't willing to take risks that weren't planned for them

It was rough for sure

​@@thegoldman25 it was so awful!!

Thank you for watching!

I've watched more of this than GoT

I miss the real Game of Thrones. Not what it ended up being. But unfortunately for me, it just killed my love for the series and universe as a whole.

For me, season 8 was so bad I have had no desire to watch any of the preceding seasons again. Kinda like people who get food poisoning from bad fish and never want to eat any fish again.

I can literally see the meme

I have always looked at it has the Mad Queen is gonna happen in the books also. but how it happens will be different and make sense. With Faegon in the books that Will Be the Catalyst for the Mad Queen. Fire and Blood Dany has left a line of bodies even now and with Someone who could challenge her for the Throne with a better claim

In the books I don't it was going to be Dany. Mainly because we already have 3 characters who are set up before this to go crazy and nuke everything. Cersei, Old Griff and Euron are all ticking time bombs. Now I will say that Dany will have a consequence with how destructive dragons can be (similar to Aegon the conquerer) but going "mad". I doubt it, being more brutal is more likely.

@@chickenpanda1179the mad queen is happening in the books but it’s Cersei. The GoT writers just changed the ending last minute to make it ‘less obvious’ because that’s the only thing they cared about. If you think Dany will be mad queen I think it’s because you want it to happen not because there is anything pointing to it.

@@chlc4305 Aegon or Faegon because I doubt he is the real one will be the reason she turns all mad. You mean there isn't a chance she finally get back and finds another Targaryen and that can claim the throne she won't go back a doodle and start burning everything in her path

@@chickenpanda1179 yes. There is no reason for Dany to go ‘mad’ literally this is made up by fans because they want to see her downfall. She will become more brutal and make more ruthless decisions because that’s where every character is going. But in no way is she going to nuke everyone in her path 😂

Thank you for the sub!

The three surviving Stark children all have huge identity loss themes in the books, Arya being No One, Sansa being Alayne Stone and struggling to assert herself internally as a Stark, and Bran and his whole thing of course. I used to just assume that the books would have all three come through their danger periods to reunite (A time for wolves!) with their Starkness intact, but then the show only really did it even in their weird half-assed way with Arya at all, with Sansa they almost completely cut the identity arc (she's barely "Alayne" for even a couple episodes in passing, never becomes a "bastard" at all, and weirdly only dyes her famous hair dark for the brief time she dyes it after she reveals her real identity), and Bran actually does get totally lost to the creepy Three-Eyed Raven/Crow/Greenseer/Whatever-it-is thing to the point that it feels like the actual person Bran was really just died a long time ago.

​@lolrirs7754 The Bran part was ridiculous, because we for all intents and purposes it didn't make sense. Like the three eyed raven in the show was just some old dude in a tree hanging out in a cave with a dying race. Granted in the books we have hints but at least there was a creepy vibe and tension around what he was learning and what the cost may be.

@@lolrirs7754 yes you are right, is something that all of them struggle with in very different ways, but I think that because of Arya's other team and story events it is a little bit more prevalent, in the books and in the show.

@@Ashbrash1998 they didn't know how or didn't want to adapt the more magical aspects of the books, I think they didn't want the fans that didn't watch it for the fantasy aspect to not watch the show so Bran is just not a character anymore, they didn't adapt most of the magical parts for Dany and for Arya and that affected them a lot too

Thanks! That was my first thought when he said what her arc is about. And identity is such a huge part of that. I mean there is a reason she ends up with the faceless men, learning or to some extent forced to become 'no one' a person with no desires or sense of self.

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