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I feel this so much. I have had the same thoughts for years. And the expanded backstory they gave OG Grievous was just as awesome as his first appearance in the cartoon.
Probably the worst part is we only ever see his losses. In lore, after every loss, Grievous went on a massive campaign of wins. One of the few battles he lost, he still took down 27 Jedi, just because he could. In lore he still is the 2003 menace that no one could do shit against. Meanwhile every time we see him he’s more cowardly than fucking Starscream from the Transformers G1 series
Well that's unfair. G1 Starscream had quite a bit more backbone than Clone Wars's Grievous: He actually verbally lashed out at Megatron on the regular, and even actually lashed out here and there. Can't say that for CW's Grievous, in regard to his bosses.
@@russianoverkill3715 yes I know, but when you actually look at Grievous achievements, what’s shown in the 2008 series feels like cherry picking his worst moments. Like said in my preexisting comment. When Grievous loses, he goes on a mass spree of victories in the outer rim
I don’t have a problem with grievous being the way he is in episode 3. I’d be a little traumatized if Sam Jackson telepathically crushed my organs too. But what I can’t accept is grievous in the 2008 cgi cartoon…. That was truly bad
Grievous became worthless and a coward because George did not want him to outshine Vader. Kind of dumb, but that was one of his reasons. He was portrayed as a terrifyingly effective Jedi killer in the 2003 Clone Wars, too effective, and George wanted to portray that Vader was always better which in turn ruined Grievous. Also, Palpatine betrayed the CIS and discarded Grievous because he needed someone to take the fall, to blame the war on. He couldn't associate himself with Grievous any longer and saw no more use for him, now that he had turned the chosen one and wiped out the Jedi. Was all of Palpatine's plans good, no. Thrawn and Vader argued against the Death Star but Palpatine insisted, then it blew up, twice.
Yeah, I guess it makes sense why George wanted to downgrade him, but I wish he did it gradually. Also, Palpatine using the droid army and Grievous as a scapegoat makes sense actually, but why didn't they go over that in the movie? Even just one line would've been fine.
@@Crawleyhunt Its been stated in novels and comics why he doesn't utilize the droid army's assets for the military of the Empire. He needed a scapegoat, as stated above, but he also couldn't use the droids from the CIS because of what they represented to the galaxy. Everyone saw the Confederacy as oppressive and willing to take instead of allowing the systems to join on their own terms during the war. If Palpatine had of used battle droids alongside the clone troopers, a number of problems would arise. Not just with the civilian population, but with the clones themselves, millions of which perished fighting the droid army. They'd see it as a smack in the face to their sacrifices and hard-won battles, and would likely revolt or start a revolution. Using the droids instead of the clones would give the notion that the CIS won the Clone Wars, which is not what Palpatine wanted. This wasn't the case permanently, though. After the clone troops were phased out in favour of stormtroopers, some CIS assets were revitalized by the Empire. For example, select Imperial Military units were deployed with dwarf spider droids alongside them, while other important assets had droidekas set up to protect them. The Tridents used during the Battle of Kamino to transport droids into the facilities were used for difficult tasks such as mining or digging by the Empire on planets such as Jedha or Illum. All of this was kept compartmentalized and strictly on a need-to-know basis. There are probably other scenarios in which droids were used by the Empire but it was kept away from the public eye.
Here’s the thing: Grievous would never outshine Vader. It’s goddamn DARTH. VADER. Even if all canon star wars media portrayed him like Vader, he acts differently enough from Vader that i doubt he’d even share the same space in someone’s mind as Vader.
@emperorkiron3470 Problem I imagine is the fact that when you compare Vader vs Obi Wan in the OT vs 2003 Grievous Vader looks REALLY bad, it'd be hard to justify narratively if Grievous was this killing machine and also get stucj with 'yep, worse than Vader'
I grew up with Filoni's the clone wars, but when I was about 10 I watched the 2003 mini series on a RU-vid channel. I was absolutely blown away by Greivous. He FELT like a killing machine. Everything about him, from his attitude, to the way he fought, to his tactics, heck, even his BODY seemed purpose built to put as many Jedi in the ground as possible. He is a cyborg, enhanced to force user standards, trained by a master of form 2, the lightsaber fighting form, against lightsaber users. This Greivous, he felt like he could be the General Greivous in the lore books, the one that had the entire republic quaking at his clawed steps. The 2008 Greivous has the unfortunate situation of being in ROTS, so he can't die, and fighting mostly characters who also can't die. So he get's washed and scuttles away like a saturday morning cartoon villain after losing at least one body part. That's why the nightsister extermination was so cool, because he was against a disposable force, one he could actually kill in plot. Or when he pulls up on the younglings the audience freaked out, because most of these characters are literally just free lightsabers to greivous. What you could have done, is give Ashoka a mission with a bunch of padawans or other jedi. Then as they sneak around, blast door opens and Greivous marches in, with a bunch of magna guards. The droids move to attack, but greivous waves them off. "This is my fight." He is a kaleesh warrior, they have standards of honour. Ashoka and the rest thinks that they can take him and the groups draws their sabers and prepares to fight. He laughs "More of a challenge for me!" Then you have a few minutes of some of the most brutal lightsaber conflict in the series, leg throws, chest crushings, lightsaber blendings, the works. They aren't obi-wan, they can't fight him. At all. Two survive and rush to the twilight barely getting away as Greivous cackles like a madman. He turns and orders his droids to collect the braids and lightsabers to add to his collection.
General Grievous is a character who is definitely deserves its own series Although with quality of Disney’s current Star Wars media I hope that Grievous would never be berated more than as he was by Lucas and Filoni
I mean he puts out a lot of good content but also a lot of bad content I'd say he's like 50/50. I wish we had someone who was more consistent behind the star wars universe.
@Hello-bi1pm That's hard to determine. There's a lot of other influences that heavily affect the shows. Apparently, season 3 of The Mandalorian was heavily changed because of company policy changes that happened at the time. Disney is just bad at managing things and it ruins their stuff. People like Filoni's stuff more on average so at least that's a good sign. People definitely over exaggerate the width of what he's good at and ignore his weaknesses, but overall he seems pretty good at his job.
considering TCW and book of boba fett, I wouldn't want filoni within a mile of a grievous show. which means that either public opinion would have to sour enough for disney to keep him from the good general, or we would have to wait for someone else to become prominent enough to get to make a show for one of the least explored main villains of star wars instead of lucasfilm's golden child.
Tbh my main issue with Grevious is how they nerfed his ability to command his forces. I'm okay if a Jedi Master could match him but the fact that they forget he's the leader of the droid army just annoys me. In his first appearance on Hypori the Jedi are barely hanging on and their clones have been wiped out long before Grevious needs to get his hands dirty. Primarily because how he commanded his forces. That's just one example in the Legends continuity.
@@Crawleyhunt yeah he's essentially the Thrawn of the clone wars and the 2008 show never addresses it and episode 3 glosses over it because the movie was ending plot lines and dealing with new ones introduced for the movie
The reason Palpatine did not incorporate Grievous into the Empire is because, to the average Republic citizen, his carnage at the Battle of Coruscant was the best argument in favor of the Empire. The same reason Count Dooku or the Separatist Council were not incorporated into the Empire. For Palpatine’s plan, Grievous had to horrify the Galaxy enough to vote him absolute authority; it would be a needless political liability to keep him, not to mention he would be a Jedi killer in a Galaxy without Jedi.
@@Crawleyhunt Well, they did talk about how infamous Grievous was in the film, but more detail would be found in the Episode 3 novelisation, which Lucas personally proofread and approved, although TCW 2008 contradicts that book along with the majority of the EU
Some things to note. 1. Dookou and palpetine not fixing griveous: the battle of coursant from episode 3 happened like 5 minutes after his lungs were crushed and he was in charge of leading the siege, so there wasn't any time...has for not on Utapau, you got me there. 2. His performance in episode 3: Most people don't mind his portrayal in that movie. His voice was explained in the microseries and his retreats made sense: the coursant one was done when the invincible hand was about to crash and he was surrounded by both Obi wan and Anakin( the man that killed dookou....who could beat the shit out of griveous in a fight) it made sense in that case and the second one was him following dooku advice: "Fear, surprise and intimidation if any of these are lacking it is best to retreat". His only opponent in the movie was Obi wan, who was one of the best duelist in the entire order and if we are counting movies only, he had defeated Maul and fought dooku twice at that point, hell to illustrate how little of a fuck Obi-wan gave about Griveous in the novelization of Revenge of the sith after Griveous those his iconic "I was trained in the jedi arts by count dooku", Obi wans response to that was: "Yeah and I trained the guy that killed him"....yeah, all 3 of the aspecta dooku told him to capatilize on were 100% not in effect and Obi wan was one of the best duelist in the order, which why he was sent to kill him to begin with. So no Griveous in episode 3 was not that bad, if anything his 2 retreats were perfectly in character with who he was taught in 2003 and his one opponent in the film was his perfect counter....the problem occured when TCW began and I love that show to death, but Griveous was trash in it.
You are right. His portrayal in ROTS was not that bad. He was injured and his retreats were a legit strategy, I just have an issue that whenever he is on camera in the movie or show (especially the show) he is running away. Plus I am not in love with his voice in ROTS or TCW. It isn't as bad as i made it out to be (that was mostly for memes), but I do hate the accent.
@@CrawleyhuntYeah, it's weird cause his actor has insane range( he voices the normal battle droid, wat tambor and a lot of other star wars characters) so he can pull a 2003 griveous voice, but george decided to give him that voice. In terms of the show, that one is even more depressing Savage had more on-screen kills than griveous ever did in his 7 season run, but the writers seem to have realized there mistakes, cause in a lot of the unused arcs, we see griveous back to a more competent state. He kills mother talzing, he outsmarted and forces Maul to retreat and in the utapau arc, he beats Obi wan in a fight in less than a minute( some madlad actually reanimated the scene on youtube if your interested)....like they were trying to fix there mistake, but the disney acquisation put a stop to it...griveous is cursed I tell ya.
All of this terrible writing and zero care for the character could be un done if they don’t fuck him up in a tales of the separatist or his own movie, my personal favourite depiction of him right now is tales of the empire because it’s the absolute best of both worlds
George Lucas is such an enigma. Ya he made the universe but a lot of his decisions are just baffling. Grevious was one of the most ferocious and horrible tragic characters in all of Star Wars but was the turned into a joke…
People often forget that George was not solely in charge of The Original Trilogy. He had other writers and producers to help shape the movie from his ideas, aka people who could help make his best ideas better and say no to his worst ideas. The franchise only started becoming bizzare when George decided to stop listening to people's advice.
Nerfing him as intensely as they did is one thing. But I think the worst thing that TCW did was implicitly changing his backstory. In the episodes where it’s mentioned, it’s implied that grievous actually chose to become a cyborg bit by bit because he was upset that he couldn’t be a Jedi and wanted to keep up through cybernetic enhancements. This is terrible because it ruins what makes Grievous’ backstory so amazing. An honest individual that wanted to be free from the corruption of foreign powers, only to be manipulated and twisted into evil through no fault of his own before being thrown away like he never mattered at all. This is Grievous’ story yes, but it’s also a perfect metaphor for the separatist cause as a whole. All the true separatists wanted to do was be free from the corruption of the republic, but they ended up getting manipulated by the Sith and were promptly thrown away. Grievous wasn’t just a Jedi killing badass, he was literally a physical representation of the Separatist faction as a whole. But no, they wanted their mustache twirler no matter how much it ruined a beautifully written character.
Yeah, I really hope one day Disney decides to make a Grievous backstory of some sort. I also hope it's good lol. I agree his og backstory was better than what they were going for in TCW.
IMO the biggest travesty about grievous thanks to TCW and Disney canon is the loss of the eu background. Grievous goes from a warlord, demigod incarnate and defender of Kalee, against bugs that want to enslave his entire people. He suffers from the loss of his literal soulmate, and is forced into conflict with the Jedi when they side with the bugs. He has a very genuine reason to hate the Jedi, which is only amplified when he has to work for the banking clan so that they can provide aid to Kalee and bypass republic blockades. When he learns that the bugs are at it again, he goes straight back to stop them. Then San Hill gets butt-hurt that he broke contract and orchestrates the shuttle crash that turned him into a cyborg. He's not even in his own mind by this point, they specifically inhibit his emotions during the reconstruction. In the 2003 series, this man is always angry, he can't even remember much of the people or soulmate. It's absolutely heartbreaking and acts as a great evoker of darth Vader, the cyborg gripped with GRIEF who is merely a tool of higher powers. But nope. Now, he's just a coward who turned HIMSELF into the cyborg, so that he could stand a chance against the Jedi. That's what really angers me. The greatest among the Kaleesh ascend to their pantheon of gods when they die, and I'll tell you what, the coward sure doesn't deserve to be deified.
Nah ROTS voice, Matthew Wood was THE GOAT. I hated the 2003 voice, didn't suit him. ROTS sounded more cunning, and vicious imo. But everything in 2003 was badass though. Grievous was the better Jedi Hunter than Darth Vader.
We are all entitled to our own opinions (mine is correct), nah but jokes aside. Both voices were good, the accent was a bit too much for me though. I am glad you, me, and everyone can agree that 2003 grievous kicked ass though.
I do believe the appeal of 2003 voice is how it portrays Grievous as professional, intelligent, calculated, calm and collected. It makes him sounds like he's always one step ahead and has a plan for everything. Rots voice is also really great. It really shows the ruthless, cunning and arrogant side of Grievous. Even going out of his way to torment his preys for the sake of it. I find myself liking 2003 voice more because of how professional and sinister it feels. It really seems like he was trained by Dooku because of how calm and calculated he is. (As it should probably have been looking at how disobedient Canon Grievous can be, sometimes.) But I respect your opinion and can really see the appeal of RotS voice, my friend.
Yeah, in ROTS he wasn't terrible. However, I didn't love his voice or the obi wan fight (the fight should've been longer and more of a challenge for obi wan). It also would have been nice to see him more throughout the movie. Maybe even in Attack of The Clones. I feel as though his potential as a character was wasted and they could've gotten more out of him. MUCH more.
@@Crawleyhuntstop giving George too much credit, Star Wars became successful because of many talented people, not one idea guy who's bad at everything else.
I definitely like the 2005 voice of grievous better than the 2003 version. The 2003 version’s voice it’s just less intimidating than the 2005 voice. although I will admit when Matthew Wood came back to do grievous’s voice for the clone wars, it feels like they changed it somehow because it doesn’t sound exactly the same and it sounds worse.
He was ridiculously op in the micro series with a stoic personality that resembled dooku too much in the micro series. Being op doesn’t make a character unique or interesting, it’s probably the laziest and easiest way to make a character appeal to a young audience. I much prefer his scheming overconfident yet deceptive personality we see in The clone wars and ep3. George knew how to make interesting characters.
Well he started as a badass op jedi killing machine and made him a coward. That is my issue. I don't mind the scheming in TCW or ROTS, but he is such a coward that it totally contradicts his character.
@@Crawleyhunt What comes across as cowardice to his enemies is due to the fact that he knows his limits and when to retreat. George gave him more realistic limits, he can still kill Jedi but he sint the ridiculous unstoppable force we see in the micro series (which btw was supposed to be over the top and exaggerated since that's how Genndy directs his series. And George gave Genndy great creative freedom when making the series, he wasn't concerned whether or not it would 100% match what he was do with ep3). Instead of being a *non force user* who could win a fight against x4 jedi masters complete by himself and withstand their most powerful force abilities, George made him much more believable, needing to set premeditated traps, using their compassion and morals against them and of course use his army to get the upper hand in otherwise unwinnable situations for him. Theres nothing wrong with prefering the op version of Grevous, but objectively what George did with his character is undoubtedly better suited and the reason why hes so unique and loved across the franchise. The micro series was cool and fun with how op he could be depicted. but beyond that, that version of his character is very shallow and is greatly lacking in nuances for a main villain.
Grievous wasn't like Dooku at all in the miniseries. Dooku was calm but also had a sense of swagger and class, he was confident and able to shove it in his opponents' faces. Grievous on the other hand was completely cold and merciless, with a single-minded devotion to violence, terror, and doing things efficiently.
@@tau-5794 he wasn't exactly like him but they were similar. they were both very Stoic and scarcely showed any sign of passion or raw emotion particularly when fighting. Especially when compared to their (AOTC dooku), ROTS and TCW versions, their personalities are significantly different and unique to their character. Grevous shows great overconfidence and takes every opportunity to mock and taunt his opponents, while dooku is the stern Stoic swordsman.
I'll look into it! Everyone keeps bringing up these comics/books about Grievous and they sound really interesting, but I feel like most of this stuff could have been put in the movies/shows with grievous.
@@Crawleyhunt Be careful what you wish for. Slaves of the Republic was adapted into the Clone Wars TV series, and they neutered the story to a frustrating degree. The same likely would've happened if they tried adapting any legends Grievous content at the time.
Matthew Woods Grievous has his moments. His “I do not care about your politics” speech is incredible, “Is it really murder to rid the galaxy of you Jedi filth,” is menacing, and his taunting in Tales of the Empire is downright disturbing. It’s all in utilization
In all honesty, 2008 is how Lucas envisionned the character in his mind. In a way, CN is sort of to blame for this disappointment, they gave us an unstoppable and absurdly dangerous killing machine when he was supposed to be dangerous but not great at best. The bar was raised so high we could only be kind of disappointed. The funny thing is that I actually like Grievous in the 2008 series, his episodes are always some of the best. But he suffers defeats way too much on-screen, especially when in comics and lore, including canon, he IS a horrifying killing machine who wins multiple battles. But again, show, don't tell.
Yeah, CN really did set that bar WAY too high. Also, I agree. 2008 Grievous' episodes are some of the best but I wish he stood his ground more and won a couple fights.
@@Crawleyhunt he did get crushed in the chest by Mace in the 2008 cartoon. He was not killed, but Mace did hurt him pretty bad. A rotting process developed in him from the injury. It was a slow process, but that was the starting point for him of the rot that made him cough so much. By revenge of the Sith he was pretty sick and no longer able to fight like he first had in the cartoon. Props the main reason why he ran away so much rather than fight. He was not necessarily a coward. He was very sick.
@@cambuxton6835 Makes sense, even if Grievous did survived the Clone Wars, he would've eventually succumbed to his injury if nothing was done about it, which I doubt the Sith would've helped.
@@ziephel-6780 thank you. If you look closely at the cartoon introduction of Grevious it is not long before you see Mace preform a quick force crush on Grevious. If you blink you might miss it. But it is there.
Tartakovsky Griveous is overpowered for me. I definitely prefer him from clone wars/revenge of the sith, and still he is my favorite villain character. He is still very strong, but also perfectly balanced. Sadistic, sly, agrresive, with well motivated hatred towards the Jedi and very confident, that's why i love him. And he looks badass as fuck :)
The RotS/2008 Clone Wars versions of Grievous were the versions I knew for a long time. Then I watched the 2003 Clone Wars when it was added to Disney+. While I still prefer the 2008 Clone Wars, there are definitely things I like better in the 2003 one. Chiefly how it portrayed Grievous. I had no idea he used to be such a formidable opponent.
I like both for different reasons, but I obviously prefer 2003, I do think they could have maybe created a mix of the two, but they sort just turned a killing machine into a mustache twirling machine without any downward progression. It was a big instant switch.
6:54 They didn't repair him because A. they were in the middle of a battle and Grievous was the commanding officer of the attack force, the fleet kind of needed his leadership, and B. Because Dooku and Palpatine always planned to get rid of Grievous, and to do that, they would need him weak enough for Anakin to take him on.
Yeah, I wasn't exactly sure on the timeline of things. Also, I get that dooku and palpatine planned on getting rid of him, but I almost wish that they would have realized that he is a valuable asset and didn't just throw him away. Politically speaking though it does make sense why they did.
@Crawleyhunt they knew he was valuable, but there was absolutely no possible work around. Although there is a cool story they did where they retconned one of the early Marvel Star Wars comic aliens that served the Empire to have been one of General Grievous' old posse whilst he was a Kaleesh warlord before he got his cyborg parts. Apparently, Thrawn fought the Kalee, and they were so tough that Thrawn had to take them down by brute force, which Thrawn considered one of his great failures. The alien I previously mentioned (can't remember his name) had taken Grievous' place as the local warlord, and after Thrawn's bombardment, he pledges his services to the Empire. So the Empire at least did get a member of Grievous' old posse and bodyguard to serve them, but Grievous himself could never be viably brought in. Also, it is entirely possible that the injuries Grievous had sustained from Windu were fatal because, according to Canon sources (where he always had the cough), his cough was caused by his failing lungs. With this info, it may be possible that Grievous' lungs started to fail in the EU after Windu injured him as well. Furthermore, his internal organs were exposed to the vacuum of space when he broke the bridge window of the invisible hand (because he uses a grapple hook and walks on the ship exterior to reach the escape pods, and his internal organs aren't protected from the vacuum of space in that time) which probably made things a lot worse.
@@tk-6967 Damn, dude you know your shit! I so wish that all this stuff you just talked about was in a show like tales or something. Such a missed opportunity.
@Crawleyhunt Tbh, I would never trust this stuff to be made into a show, especially with the current writing team. Even if you like Filoni and the current animated shows, just be aware of how generally shoddy they are with the lore and purposefully so. They include pretty much whatever they want for the sake of it. For example, at the end of TBB S3, Tarkin arrives and says that Necromancer's funding will be moved to Stardust. Even ignoring external reasons why this cannot happen (because TBB as a whole doesn't really work if you look at the lore) by the show's on logic, that cannot happen, since they established that it is of the 'utmost importance' to the Emperor, so Tarkin can't do this but the writers just do it anyway because they are lazy. Tales of the Jedi also had the Dooku story, but since I know Dooku's backstory, I can tell you that it was a crude bastardisation of Dooku's existing backstory. Yes, the events are mostly new, but they have fumbled around with Dooku's lore. For example, Dooku never wanted to be on the Jedi Council. In fact, quite to the contrary, like Qui Gon did, he turned down the offer to join the Council. But in TOTJ, they made him seem jealous of Mace Windu and having a similar dynamic with the Council to Anakin, so they made Dooku seem worse for it and more in fitting with TCW's 2 dimensional Dooku. That is why I don't generally get my hopes up with these shows. Even times when they are decent, like with Dooku's story, the writers still change it to fit with their content, which isn't as good.
Obi Wan technically DID remember R2 and 3PO but it pretends not to so he doesn’t raise any suspicions. And in Vader’s case, he there was a comic where he looks at 3PO and then returns gives him (probably since he didn’t want to seen as a softy). Beyond that, he almost NEVER interacts with them or even notices that they’re even there. Hell, he probably just ignores them so that can focus catching on Luke or the others. Also Palpatine couldn’t have Vader and Grievous on the same team because Anakin would probably recognize him and there would mostly likely be some infighting between the two of them due fighting on opposite sides during the Clone Wars. I mean the whole point of Palpatine’s master plan was to have the Republic win the war and corrupt the campaign so that he could turn the galaxy against (let alone destroy) the 7:55 Jedi. And speaking of plot holes; the Imperial Gunners didn’t detect any life-forms in A New Hope since droids in Star Wars aren’t technically considered actual living creatures just like the real world.
Imagine disney just decides to do a Grievous movie with hints of the 2003 goat AND With the new Clone Wars animation, it’ll probably never happen but we can still dream
Honestly about him getting no repair argument, bro didn't really have that much time to do it honestly, we aren't sure if bro even had a medical droid there (unless he had one in ROTS on the Invisible Hand then my bad, and again it surely would take some time to fix). But I get your point. I feel like Grievous had a chance to be one of the most badass characters but instead we have a coward that runs away (In ROTS it was more understandable honestly but that's just me)... I honestly just hope that they won't ruin Grievous more somehow... Also Tales of the Empire spoilers: Grievous did return for like 2 minutes... And man he was cool, and he feels way better than TCW version, but he still isn't the big hunter and killer, I'm sure if the 2003 Grievous was there, bro would defeat Elsbeth too or whoever it was running there from him, bro felt more like this scary bully guy rather than an unstoppable force, but I'm glad he is a bit better than "Oh no I couldn't even defeat a padawan, time to run" guy but y'know, sad thing is - the only big thing Grievous did in TCW was the whole Nightsister thing (which is what Tales of the Empire exactly continued) so it's honestly kinda bad... And speaking of bad, TCW kinda ruins the scene where Grievous tells Obi-Wan that Grievous was trained in his Jedi Arts by Count Dooku... And Grievous mentions it after their like- 10th fight (because Obi and Grievous fought a lot in TCW and it takes place before ROTS) 💀
Yeah, after some thought him not getting repaired makes more sense, but I still feel like they could have repaired him if they really to. However, I don't think they wanted to. Like I said in the video he was a pawn, I wish he wasn't but that's what the was. Also, I agree the Tales of The Empire Grievous was pretty badass! I think it was a good combo of 2003 and TCW Grievous depictions. 2 minutes was not enough though.
Whenever I wonder how Grievous would kill Jedi left and right I'm reminded of HK-47s Guide on how to kill Jedi. And Grievous must have been a dangerously talented and skilled Tactician and Warrior to pull his feats off.
I may not agree with your point. I actually prefer the cowardly moustache twisting coward stereotype Grievous, but dude, your editing and delivery was hilarious and I enjoyed every second of the video. This content is incredible, keep up the great work!
I saw that Grievous scene and oh my GOD it felt great to hear him being the one telling someone to run again! I also really appreciated him using his claw feet and extra arms again. Hell yes.
@@Crawleyhunt TELL ME ABOUT IT! I'm a huge droid army fan, and I just take any crumb at this point (esp with Lego Star Wars), but I'd love some new droid content somehow with Grievous involved
What's ironic is one of the videos on the side shows Bayformers Shockwave who I often see as the Transformers version of Grievous. Before the 3rd movie premiered, tie-in material had Shockwave straight up murdered any Autobot that wasn't present in the 3rd movie and was heavily hyped to be the main villain. Then the 3rd movie premiered and he was barely in it and hardly spoke. All the hype was to hide the plot twist of the film's true villain. At least with Transformers, we got a dozen games, shows, and comics where he's treated better but Grievous, he's been treated terribly since ROTS.
God i just have to laugh so hard at these background memes you have my sub good sir. I also really love grievous and also wished he wasnt such a C O W A R D. I dont mind the cough that much and i wish that filoni would have shown grievous to be more of a menace i think the big obsticale that even the great general Grievous cant defeat is the plot armor. I watched Tales of the empire and holy crap i loved him its how he should have been i wished he was like that through out the clone wars. I could talk about this dude for hours and i mean him in general but you basiclly have said everything that I have to say except that i dont mind his voice that much i mean just listen to his voiceline in battlefront 2 (2017) some of them if not alot of them are awesome. Anyways loved the vid take care yall and as griev- I mean as I say Until we meet again
@@Crawleyhunt 1. I appreciate that you answered :D 2. I can understand why you might like 2003's voice more the reason why I like modern Grievous voice so much is cause i grew up with it therefore I am more used to it than the 2003 voice allthough the lines he has in that series are bangers. I have one more question out of curiosity. What did you think of GVS(Grievous)in tales of the empire?
@@Crawleyhunt I couldnt agreed more xD i loved how he just mocks morgan by repeating her mothers last words to her and the laughing XD. I think he enjoyed killing those witches a bit to much. Somebody even made a vid with mr blue sky playing in the background xD. (Edit: someone also added the 2003 theme) In the clone wars before landing on dathomir he even says something like"lets BURN these witches to the ground" I love some of the lines grievous has like i said in another comment. Thanks for taking the time to answer :D take care and have a wonderfull day/evening cya around
@@GeneralGrievous6622 Yeah, he sounded so evil and menacing it was pretty awesome! I will have to check those videos out, they sound awesome lol. See you around! Have a good one!
To defend the movie's Grievous: He's still more competent than the Clone Wars's slop. He doesn't treat his four arms as a worthless party trick, bailed from his ship in a way that really should have won that fight, and only lost to Obi-Wan because he's basically his combative hard-counter. The coughing was also covered by the cartoon: Mace Windu crushed his guts. Even him bailing from the fight with Obi-Wan makes sense: Dooku outright taught him to bail if he couldn't keep his force-enabled opponents unsteady and fearful. Random aside? You can actually say Lego Grievous is the most capable of the various Grievous'. Took multiple explosions, kept all four of his arms in a drawn-out fight, actually killed Commander Cody, and just barely lost to his Obi-Wan.
His behavior in episode 3 is excusable when you consider how Mace injured him by crushing his chest. It’s the 3D clone wars that retcons his backstory and neutered him into a coward who can’t defeat even a padawan in single combat.
I didn't see 1 and 2 as a kid but I loved 2003 clone wars. I love rots too but when the movie was over I was telling my friends and mom about how cool grievous was supposed to be on the way home.
I love both versions for different reasons Obviously 2003 is incredible but grievous onwards is quite funny I just wish they'd give him some actual justice
I don't know how hot of a take this is but I feel like grievous more dumb and brutish voice fits better than his more regal voice in the 2003 cartoon. I think people are forgetting that grievous before being a cyborg was a tribal warlord. The brutish voice highlights that part of his past.
@@Crawleyhunt Yea. Its an honest shame they said all his legends stuff wasnt canon yet didn't actually explain his backstory again. A show on grevious's entire life would be baller.
2008 Dave Filoni Clone Wars really didn't understood how General Grievous was suppose to be a nightmare killing machine against the jedi. I'm glad that Tales of the Empire is making him into a True Nightmare of Nature like he was in 2003 original.
Lucas allegedly didn't want Grievous to have any depth because he felt Vader filled the role of a villain with depth already and I don't think he ever valued Grievous enough to make him more than what he was in the movie. One of many examples of the old expanded universe being an improvement over Lucas' six movies.
I’m gonna say this as the biggest Grievous stan who’s ever lived (I still consider him the greatest duelist in galactic history) you are wrong about the voice. His voice was my only major complaint about the 2003 version. He sounded a bit too normal. The raspy voice of the prequels was perfect. The only problem was the execution. They didn’t use it in very menacing contexts. Do the “I have toppled nations, I have slain kings, I have murdered legends” line as a baseline for that voice. The Slavic accent makes him more alien then he was before because that’s what he was. He wasn’t a human, his species had a Slavic accent.
I mean I respect your opinion, but how do we know that his species has a Slavic accent when we have only heard Grievous. I guess you could make that assumption, but I really wish they would have just show us. Unless it says it in some novel/comic???
@@Crawleyhunt no but having a normal American accent for an alien is kind of weird. You wouldn’t even be able to tell he wasn’t a human before his injuries. The Slavic accent adds way more personality to his species making it so you could imagine what he sounded like before the explosion.
And then after years of being useless and disappointments he comes and is the one who slaughters THE ENTIRETY of the most interesting thing I have seen from star wars THE NIGHTSISTERS 😭😭
Grievous IS my favorite character, I prefer the ROTS and Clone Wars voice but yeah the man was done dirty, I think i remember hearing that George didn’t want him being cooler than Vader so his purpose changed into being a “Mustache Twirling Villain” George is like a Child with a rampant imagination, which lead to a really awesome universe but some damn stupid plot moments.
I agree with literally everything you said here except on his voice, ROTS Grevious’ voice reflects his brutality and inhumanity so well while being unique from anybody else in the franchise Old Grevious sounds like Mr Freeze in a Batman cartoon and other than the robotic filter he could sound like any other British antagonist Other than that yeah General Grevious should’ve been taken much more seriously, won more often, and gotten his own movie by now
A lot of people have the same opinion as you and I gotta be honest his ROTS voice isn't that bad I just kinda played it up for the memes. I don't love the accent though.
As much as I agree George Lucas did say he was a smart military general who only cares about himself I don't think you would be trying to fight tough opponets with your balls being squeezed to death either no hard feelings just wanted to say that
reason why palps didn't keep Grievous is because he was the second in command of the Separatist army and the Separatists NEEDED to lose. they couldn't lose as long as Grievous was still at large. if not for that fact i do think he would have used him to hunt down remaining Jedi. i wish i could see what Grievous would do once all the Jedi were dead. would he finally feel at peace?
Put this in perspective. You have an armored and trained knight surrounded by over 100 mentally challenged people with grenades. Unfortunately the awesome knight is going to lose. Thats how i look at Grievous and the Jar Jar loss:)
I suppose. My issue is that why is general grievous stupid enough to actually try and fight an army by himself. My other issue is that I hate Jar Jar. Lol
I absolutely loved the 2003 Grievous. His voice was the classic evil British accent which suits a knowledgeable and fierce opponent but at the same time I did like 2008 Grievous and his Russian accent. It makes him sound more conniving and intimidating. So both evil villain accents, just different forms of evil I suppose.
Wasnt it the dooku and sidious that caused grievous to turn into a cyborg freak and not the jedi amd the republic? If grievous ever found out he would turn on Palpy in a heartbeat. Also grievous's badass reveal to the star wars franchise rest solely on genndy's amazing animation. He really did him justice.
Dooku and Papa Palpatine did turn him into a cyborg, but they also tamperd with his brain to make him more compliant. That would have been a cool idea though. It would have almost been like the clones figuring out about the chips. Also, I agree Gennedy carried grievous so hard!
For some reason, grievous has always been my favorite bad guy because unlike Vader, who reformed himself at the end he never did because all he cares about is being the most powerful warrior in the galaxy. And furthermore, he has no family of his own. They abandoned him and he never cared. And I do do anything to revive him for revenge and this time in the next Star Wars trilogy it’s droids only until every last imperial veteran will bleed🩸!
He actually DID have a family. They all died when a group of raiders (with the help of the impotent Jedi) quashed Grievous efforts to drive the slavers away. Why? Because they were in the Republic's pocket and not Grievous family. Which is why he prides himself in stealing the Jedi's Lightsabers
9:17 Vader probably didn't want to acknowledge Threepio since he hates anything that reminds him of his past. And Obi-Wan never cared enough about Artoo to remember him nineteen years later...not a plothole.
let be honest it plot hole there is clear not any connection between vader and c3po in original trilogy, it just Lucas does not care about consistently between the films.
I am an avid believer that outside of designs star wars as a whole would have been better off if Lucas stuck to the large scale writing and left the small stuff to others
Also, Grievous has interesting lore before cybernetics,that make from him something like Darth Vader but even more tragic, and shows problems of Respublic politic.
I agree,but honestly i think its mostly filoni's fault he could have fleshed out grevious since George really didn't,but just made him into a Saturday morning cartoon villain. G-gravy in the 2003 was my favorite too.
I don't know how much influence George had on TCW show, but even if he didn't have any influence I feel as though Filoni wanted to match the movie depiction of him. I think you are right though. Filoni could have done more with him and probably still matched the movie Grievous.
First time watching your channel but this perfectly encapsulates being a Grievous fan. Personally I think it was alright (so much better than anything we've seen on screen since 03), and the model is awesome. I would love to see his legends backstory animated or literally anything of Grievous being portrayed as he should be.
You know Crawley, i watched Rebels a while back up to it's fourth season and it isn't that bad, i actually enjoyed the first season very much liking Ezra from the beginning because of his charm and wit, i thought Kanan was a perfectly written character, the banter between Zeb, Ezra and Sabine is nice, Chopper is my favorite character ironically I learned that most of Rebels used scrapped ideas from the OT, and integrate them in the show to give more character in SW such as Zeb's designs, Vaders look in season 2, the inclusion of Ap-5 as a C3po design, i loved the villains i liked the Grand Inquisitor and the Seventh Sister, Kallus, Brom titus and Pryce Maul's story, Perfect, Loved his character and a perfect sendoff for him too The reintroduction of Hondo was also nice and i loved his dynamic with Ezra I feel like this show used Vader a good amount to not overuse him, and what i like is that the ending isn't a rebel alliance victory, it was simply a Lothal Liberation victory One thing i remind is that Rebels isn't a continuation of the Clone wars show it's just a series focusing on different refugees trying to live and fight back from the empire Only complaint i have is that Season 3 could have shown more of Ezra using the dark side holocron, but it was still enjoyable
I may have to try and watch it again. I remember really struggling to like a lot of the characters. I could not stand Sabine or Ezra. I have watched the top moments in that show multiple times and they do not disappoint. Vader fighting Ahsoka is so GOOD! and the Ben Kenobi vs Maul scene is even better! I'll give it another shot.
Not that you're not right overall, but was there really time to performer complex repairs, replace Grievous' organs, while leading the whole of the droid army?
I think that almost right after it happened he had to go and lead an army into battle, but after that he had some time and I feel like they definitely could have fixed him up.
@@Crawleyhunt cartoon grevious IS my favourite character. And look how they massacred my boy. George Lucas thought he took away from darth Vader so changed him. Which is just stupid.
Best depiction of him. 2008 version of him ruined him. He gets beat by gungans and everyone except padawons. Yet all the books including the revenge of the sith book describe him as the 2003 version. I let the movie version slide cuz he just got force crunched by mace windu… thats why I assume he coughed and wasn’t on his A. Game. Atleast the council thinks only obi wan stands a chance against him over anakin in the movie. It makes sense why he became general of the entire army over ventress and durge and everyone else… now it makes no sense. In my head he’s still the 2003 version no matter how they butcher an epic villain to conclude the prequel saga.
I agree with you 100% my headcanon is 2003 Grievous. The Clone Wars show does him dirty and like you said the movie version makes sense, but I still wish it could've been executed better.
Him abandoning ship in the movie was actually a tactical move because of he stayed he would have died I think the move and the cartoon are good representations of him even tales of the empire but not the newer clone wars cartoon
Yeah, it totally was a tactical retreat and it made sense. I just thought it was funny that he was laughing while doing it. With 2008 Grievous he runs so often and some of them are definitely tactical as well, but it would have been nice to see him stand his ground and win a few fights.
ROTS grievous was not that bad people who say that just haven't rewatched the film. he was able to capture anakin and obi wan after they rescued Palpatine. and him escaping from the ship was the smartest decision to make in the moment because the ship was already starting to crash. in his fight with obi wan grievous was beating the living shit out of him, and during the duel obi wan was visibly afraid of him, and had to concentrate really hard to be able to contend with grievous. grievous was still a good fighter in ROTS and him being a coward was aded to make him more three dimensional as a character. but 2003 grievous is still great and i can understand if it is you're favorite.
Grievous in episode 3 had a lot if personality and i like that. They should have made him a bit stronger and at least shown him killing a jedi on screen
He was a good character as the 2003 version explained his greatest strength and weakness. Mostly that he was an ambush character who focused on preventing the enemy from focusing and using their Jedi magic powers. It was why he won most of his fights as he rushed the enemy, used fear, speed, and power to crush them all... And why when he lost it was because he let the enemy catch their breath, think, and focus... Or pop down and force crush his organs. Strong and yet weak for a reason. Sadly the star wars under Disney Plus seemed to have taken the worst parts of George. As the first three movies were okay (plot holes withstanding they didn't expect to make 3 movies). The prequels... In which he did need some people around to help him and say NO when there needed to be a line between a neat idea and a useful idea. Then Disney Star wars... Which seems to attack anyone who says 'no' towards any idea no matter how stupid.
2003 Grievous wasn't even peak Gravy. The 2005 Dark Horse Grievous comic made him literally into a horror monster. I actually got nightmares from that. George somehow has a weird hate for villains. He's had three cool villains in the prequels, a devil, a Dracula and a Terminator, and he kills them off one by one without exploring them further in the movies.
There are flaws with the repair argument. For one you can’t just slap together some fix for that and have him be good and dandy within a couple days, but also Dooku was dead, and Palpatine never planned on keeping Grievous. Ultimately Grievous was always a pawn. He was meant to elicit fear to justify the creation of the empire. Ultimately though he was a threat to the safety of Anakin and once Anakin reached his potential then there wouldn’t be a point to Grievous. He’s just another loose end. And how would the empire react to Palpatine having a Separatist General apart of the imperial military? That’s like the US making a Nazi General the General the of US army directly after WW2.
@@Crawleyhunt it wouldn’t really make sense for him to be anything other then a pawn. Grievous was never meant to live. Once he struck fear into the Republic, enough to justify the creation of the empire, he no longer was a pawn. After the separatists fell and the republic became the empire, Grievous would be nothing more then a threat since he’s a loose end. It would also be very unlikely that Grievous would continue serving Sidious since the only reason he fought in the war was gone. The Jedi were dead, he had no reason to serve the Sith any longer. He’d probably try to go home to Kalee where he would be promptly killed to cover up any loose ends. Honestly I feel if he did survive he’d become little more then a test for Vader.
@@Crawleyhunt and no the US (mostly NASA) recruited Nazi scientists not members of the military, political figures, or anyone involved with the paramilitaries like the SS.
Soooo clearly you've missed the point of Grievous and fallen into the trap that many people believe, but now I want everyone to understand that this is Grievous in the Clone Wars 3D. But recognize that he is a Jedi hunter and not a coward that's Jedi propaganda used against Grievous so Jedi won't be afraid of him. (Hint Hint Eith Koth mocks Grievous and Anakin calls him a coward earlier in the CW.) But look at him in this scene this is how the galaxy and Jedi saw Grievous realistically. In the 3D animation, Grievous goes up against almost all characters who can not die Kenobi, Eith Koth, Fisto, and Gallia her 1st fight was interrupted so it doesn't count. But literally, her 2nd one Grievous captures her!!! Why not end her now (hint hint the story does not call for it) And to the effect of the fight all Jedi CHEATED they used the force on Grievous a power he has to overcome and in all "cowardly" escapes He literally does it through strategy that's the only reason why Grievous escapes. Mind you Fisto, and Kenobi retreated from Grievous when they were losing a battle so this just proves the point 3D Grievous was never nerfed and no he's not weak. If the story calls for Grievous to lose he loses, if it calls him to win he wins like here. So I'm glad a lot of people contradict themselves for liking this scene but act like they get their feelings hurt when Grievous doesn't act like the 2D version. They are the same and if you're like well he laughs and has the mustache stereotype George wanted 2D had that too guys and gals. Grievous literally laughs and taunts the Jedi on Hypori and taunts clones protecting the Chancellor. George talked with Cartoon Network to make Grievous and only asked them to give him a reason to cough. If George was not ok with this Grievous he would have told them to change it, especially for the Revenge of the Sith section. George wanted a mustache villain, but he failed at making Grievous one. Goob from Meet the Robinsons or a villain who is laughed at and not granted a horror story to the galaxy and a maniac of a cyborg is a mustache villain. The true mustache villains in Star Wars are the inquisitors in Rebels that's what they are and Grievous is clearly far above that so yes George messed up with Grievous' character and they changed him to be an epic villain that's ok because that's what Grievous was introduced as and has been hyped up to be from Lucas every time after Ep. 3 and they only keep him running away to pay homage to Ep. 3 but realistically that's not being a coward in war. You're the leader of the army you need to survive to lead the army so no one realistically is gonna act like an idiot and stand there to be chopped up by a Jedi if you lose a sword fight. Ventress runs away on Kamino she runs away on Dathomor. Why is she not called a mustache villain by anyone? Kenobi runs away not even finishing his objective on the Malevolence and on his Venator, Why is he not called a coward? The list goes on. So is Grievous a coward like George wanted? No, and this scene proves it perfectly with the hypocrites still thinking Grievous was nerfed. All this is because Grievous is not shown to fight throw-away characters like in 2D. If there was a scene with random Jedi to throw away as they did for Maul and Savage then Grievous would have done it but no the CW stories did not dive deeper into Grievous because the 2D already did this the CW worked around Anakin's story and a few stand-alone. The defeat by Gungans is not dumb he deflects the boomas and takes down a few gungan warriors, but they wanted to expand Captain Tarpal's story, and that's a fitting way to end his story he lost against Grievous but he literally limits Grievous' mobility with a spear I don't care if your the best warrior if you get a spear shoved up your Armor that shorts circuit you and damages your body your going to be struck down with immobilizing weapons used by the gungans ok suck it up Grievous is not invincible. Plus before anyone says oh Grievous wouldn't have gotten so close to Tarpal. No that's his character he literally gets that close to Shaak Ti in 2D and then ties her up while taunting her. plus when you run a spear into Tarpal the distance between them gets closer so yes Grievous opened himself up to a close attack that Tarpal took advantage of. So that is a loss Grievous would learn from and oh look I connected the fact he grabs Shaak Ti's hand with the lightsaber to take the weapon out of her control!!!!! Oh look character development!!! Look what happens when you apply common sense to fantasy you wouldn't hate 3D or Ep. 3 Grievous if you actually think for once. Plus if you haven't noticed in 3D Grievous was a master at space combat literally destroyed Kenobi's fleet, countless Republic fleets which is mentioned before Anakin lays a trap that's never been done before so Grievous would have not seen it coming, Also Anakin... Plot armor, Master Gallia' fleet is destroyed. You just don't lift the vail from your eyes. Grievous is so amazing in both animations it's just that storytelling is not developed for him more. Lastly ,Ahsoka did not win against Grievous that clip you showed shows Grievous outsmarted her captured her and again taunting his enemy putting fear into her head, (but Ahsoka is a girl character standing up against bad people so she shows no fear) and you purposefully cut out the clip that shows the station exploding which would knock everyone including Grievous of balance and Ahsoka used the shock from the explosion to push his arm that's so close to his hand because that's where her face is and realistically that would work. And their second dual Ahsoka literally runs away knowing she could not win against Grievous and cheated by using the force on him to push him away. You are just mad because you don't think and only want cool action scenes.
I’m gonna sum up this real quick because for whatever reason you decided to write a novel there, but all that shit doesn’t take away from the fact Grievous is a bitch compared to his first appearance.
If I had a nickel for every time a RU-vidr with an ugly drawn pfp complained about Grievous making up scenarios to feel personally attacked I'd have two nickels Which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice
The problem is that you circle jerk to Hypori, but immediately forget the scene where Dooku explicitly warns grievous that if any one element of Fear, Surprise, and intimidation is missing, it is best for him to flee. This strategy has merit. It is designed to cut Jedi off from the Light Side of the Force, making concentration more difficult, and making them unable to use the force. Without these elements, Grievous dies. Which is exactly what happened on Utapau. Obiwan was scared, even surprised with Grievous’s skill, but not intimidated. Same with Fisto. Fisto was neither sacred nor intimidated.
I kinda do jerk off Hypori a lot, but rightfully so. It was so badass. However, I did forget the dooku training scene where he says all that. I feel like even with that scene it does not justify the amount of times he runs away I the actual 2008 clone wars. In ROTS I can sort of see why he would flee, Obi-wan is one of the best jedi knights and grievous put up a somewhat decent fight, but you're right he was not intimidated and he kept his focus. That is how he got the upperhand and came out on top. I still have my issues with the fight it self, but the results do make sense.
