Hey dude really good job on this review. I've been waiting for this comprehensive test to see where today's laptops are in gaming and everything else. There certainly isn't a "loser" with any of these laptops, I mean the ability to game and do production has improved SO MUCH over the last 3 years it's ridiculous. I think if I were going by price I get the 3D part. If I had specific workloads that I'm always running I'm picking which does best there if the difference is worth the cost, otherwise I'm still going with the 3D part.
can you do a review of the 2023 HP Victus 16 with the ryzen 5 7640hs and the 4060 8gb gpu please? i am very interested in your thoughts about the updated victus 16. i think the problem with the hinges is also gone. ive got one now and i got to say im very pleased with the machine. but id like to know the opinion and of course the benchmarks from a pro.
It appears that most of these CPUs are GPU limited with those Mobile 4090s. Have you tried or might you test using an external Desktop 4090 GPU and Monitor to push the CPU to its limits with the same laptops. I believe that may show how capable they all are. Nice Video by the way. i always enjoy seeing where AMD is going in the Mobile space. Hope there is an All AMD roundup soon to see where they stand compared to last year or at least since January and how they can improve. Thanks for all the great content!
@@cameronbosch1213 nah if you pay attention they're doing them in some sort of rotation, this year amd is on the down, and intel is on the up, same with gpus. Next year might be different.
You're covering every single detail that I can't even imagine. This review must've taken you more than a week. Holy cow... Props to your hard work and dedication ❤
My takeaway from this video is that the real beast is Jarrod. What an effort!! Your work is greatly appreciated not just by consumers, but also people in the industry and investors. Thank you.
@@steph_on_yt The cheapest 4090 laptop is the HP Omen 17 which sits around $2800. Even if we considered this, you could match the performance with a brand new barebones AM4 build with a used 6950xt at $1000. You’d have a 5600 w/ stock cooler, B550 mobo, 32GB 3600 MHz RAM, 1TB SSD, B Tier 750W PSU, and a CC560 case. Used 6950xt go at about $550 right now so it’s pretty doable and you’re only barely bottlenecking with that cpu at 1440p. This wouldn’t include the monitor but I’d argue if you’re spending an extra $300 on the laptop for this comparison then you can use that for desktop peripherals. The 4080 mobile is even easier to match as its desktop counterpart is around an RX 6800. These go for $430 brand new and even cheaper used. I’d wager you could include a high refresh 1440p 27” VA panel in that $1000 budget if you’re smart with your other parts. I imagine this we become even easier after the new RDNA3 cards (7700xt and 7800xt) are released and the older generation gets even cheaper.
Impressive performance when it's working properly. Too bad games don't always run on the 3D V-Cache CCD, and there isn't a more sensible 8-core 7745HX3D model available (not that it would make a lot of sense on a $2500 laptop anyway). Oh well, shouldn't be a problem for hardcore enthusiasts I guess.
Your reviews are awesome as always Jarrod’s tech. Have you heard of the recently announced Lenovo Legion 9i, guess you were right on them planning to release it all along since most of the features of last year’s legion 7(2022) were returned to this legion 9i lineup. I’m really excited on looking forward for you to review the laptop 😊
@@TeeWadeG The 2021/2022 Legion 7 Pro was the best gaming laptop but still too heavy and the screen not perfect for creative works. The. Re Legion 9 is nearly 1 lb. lighter and have a screen that’s perfect for gaming and creative work.
Wow! What a monumental undertaking of a video. You deserve a lot more views than other tech review channels like LTT considering the level of effort which goes into each of your videos.
I really like the inclusion of Matlab in the testing, many gaming laptops find dual purposes :) However, there be dragons here: historically, Matlab had to release a patch to leverage avx instructions properly with AMD. Prior to this, people had to follow special steps to get Ryzen/AMD chips to their expected performance. I don't really know the state of things nowadays, but I advise extra care for Matlab+AMD. I do not know if the performance difference in the video could be improved with special patches, etc. PS: Based on a quick search things got fixed in 2020? Anyhow, just a warning.
"these are not cheap gaming laptops, so it's worth spend extra minutes to do some research." You care about us viewer a lot. I very appreciate your videos as it's very detail and to the point, Thank you for your videos.
I may be 10 months to late for you to see this Jarrod, but I'll go for it anyway. Great video! Top of my list is when you do the average of all games fps, could you add the average of the 1% lows. The 1% lows are the most important stat imo, thanks! Also not to be too needy, but I greatly appreciate you having Microsoft flight simulator on all your channels laptop tests, it being a cpu heavy game. Is there any chance of you getting 1 or 2 more cpu heavy games to add to the stats lists in the future? I would like to see DayZ, as well as Escape from Tarkov - on the map called "Streets" (the hardest map for hardware to run smoothly) Thanks again, I'm binging all your content!
Do they make U series laptops with discrete graphics? I'd expect you'd be heavily GPU limited in most cases with an iGPU anyway, so it probably wouldn't matter.
@@TheDarksideFNothing I don't know whether V-cache more efficient on lower wattage, but if it's efficient enough I think more power could be shifted to the iGPU.
@@yoiqsrambadian2444 my understanding is that V-Cache doesn't have as much advantage at lower clock speeds. Basically that the benefit of V-Cache is primarily in allowing better IPC scaling at high clocks. The higher the clock the more the extra cache actually benefits. If that's the case it could really limit the utility of V-Cache on U series. Though I'd love to see some testing in that regard. I wonder too if instead of putting V-Cache on the CPU, if they could instead attach some kind of cache to the iGPU. Perhaps a big cache pool could alleviate some of the issues with DDR5 bandwidth/latency for GPU tasks. I could see something like that being especially beneficial for the really big APUs like in the consoles or upcoming Strix Halo.
There's no point in putting V-Cache on a heavily power-constrained and GPU-limited handheld. The CPU in the Z1 Extreme is already way overkill for the small amount of CUs in the APU.
@@steph_on_yt as a tangent to OPs idea, I wonder if adding a big chunk of cache to the GPU could be beneficial in reducing the penalties of working with DDR5 instead of a GDDR memory pool. It could be more expensive than it's worth on U series APUs, but I wonder about big APUs like upcoming Strix Halo.
very nice review. 1 request/question. Test all these versions with faster ddr5 memory (something like 7200 or even 8000 if that's what's hot now,or whatever works best) and compare the differences with these results. This will show us at least 2 things, that is scaling with better memory on both platforms and how much of a role better memory plays for the extra bulky 3d v-cache (since if I remember correctly 3d v-cache versions didn't really care about memory speeds at least for desktop (I mean it hasn't existed for laptops until now anyway so)). This should shed more light on the nature of 3d v-cache. PS. Hopefully Jarrod will see this comment. It's not much work you have half done so you can copy paste these results. This is an issue that must be addressed at all costs xd
I can’t tell if Jarrod enjoyed doing all the testing, measuring and encoding all of the data. The nerd and gamer in me thinks he loved it all the way, but the practical me is shaking my head, hehehe. Eitherway, super great video and lays it out clear for an informed decision. Budget be damned.
Oh so the 7945HX3D is the mobile version of the 7950X3D, where the v-cache is located on one of the CCDs. As mentioned, not all games might run on the CCD with the v-cache, not making use of the extra v-cache present which we’ve seen on the 7950X3D. I hope they’ll make a 7800X3D mobile equivalent, like a 7940HS3D or 7950HX3D, which will be cheaper and more popular amongst gamers
Thank you for raising awareness about the CCD issue of games running on the wrong cores. If anything, I'm a bit surprised that AMD chose to release a 16-core 3D v-cache chip exclusively in a dedicated gaming laptop where the extra CCD with no v-cache has little to no benefit for gaming. If AMD was going to release a 3D v-cache mobile part aimed at gamers, and subsequently limit it's availability to a single SKU from 1 vendor, it seems like they would have been better off releasing an 8-core version rather than 16-core, where they could avoid all issues of games running on the wrong CCD. My only explanation for AMD's choice to go with a 16-core variant would be for the purposes of deceptive marketing wherein they could still claim the 5.4GHz clock speed, rather than whatever lower clock speed the 3D CCD can reach. AMD's marketing materials don't include that clock speed, but based on the drop in clock speed on desktop between the 7700X (5.4GHz) and 7800X3D (5.0GHz), it's safe to assume the 3D v-cache CCD on the 7945HX3D likely also maxes at 5.0GHz, which wouldn't look as impressive on marketing materials and can deceive most consumers. Obviously, for multicore workloads it makes a huge difference, but on a laptop with strong a gamer-aesthetic design marketed towards gamers, it seems like an odd choice. Gamers have no need for the extra 8-cores, and those who work with heavy multi-core workloads would be better off with the higher multi-core performance of the non-3D 7945HX. Even if those professionals want gaming performance, just the fact that the regular 7945HX is close to the margin of error of the X3D part (especially at 1440p & 4k) and then also on-par with the Intel flagship 13980HX, they could be happy knowing they aren't leaving any meaningful performance on the table for gaming, while getting noticeably better performance in their professional workloads. The trade-off doesn't make much sense.
Awesome and meticulous work as always! Just a quick question, will you also be reviewing and comparing handheld pcs soon? I want to see how good the Legion Go is compared to the ROG Ally. I love my Deck but Starfield's performance is making me want to switch.
It’s crazy that a 4k laptop comes with the slowest ddr5 ram on the market. Especially on the Intel system it really scales well with faster ddr5 …. If it would of had 7000mghz ddr5 it prob been faster in a lot more of the gaming bench’s.
Hi Jarrod. I follow your videos a lot. What about VR gaming? Will the 3D Ryzen perform better that the non-3D or the Intel i9 from the Rog 18? Thank you.
Great video! As usual, 3D v-cache benefits vary wildly from game to game. If you spend a lot of time on games that benefit then its probably worth spending a little extra to get v-cache. If you dont it's probably not.
It might be shining only in 1080p now, but as it will age, say, in 3-5 years, the CPU will be shining even more on the games then, especially since the GPU probably won't be able to play 4K that well anymore, maybe not even 1440p that well, depending on the game. And before you start screaming at me, yeah, it is very expensive, but not everyone that buys something like this is swimming in cash, for some people it actually is a big calculated investment, that they will make sure to benefit from as much as they can, meaning using it for 5+ years.
uXTU doesn’t work with dragon range at the moment, so tweaking the clocks and offsets is all on Lenovo. In their bios there is a UV offset option, dropping it to a -3 to -5 all core offset multiplier, will improve temps btw. Even tho they are meant to run hot and stay pushing, playing starfield on mine, with a -4uv in bios, it didnt throttle once according to HWINFO, max temp was 94 average temp was 82, this was on balance mode in the legion software. I have a 4080 model, I was averaging 80-100 fps, when I turned it on performance mode it still did not throttle but did get to 100c on the die however the individual cores never went above 80-90 or just looking at the CCD die 1 (because atarfield likes core 5 🤷♂️ lol.) it didn’t even hit 100 even though the game was running on ccd1 avg temp was 86 and even cooler on ccd2. Same with the ccd die avg. You can get the temps even cooler if you go into custom mode and with a reasonable fairly quiet fan curve and power limits, get the temps down even more. I almost returned it at one point cuz I was only looking at the cpu die max alll the time and not avg or current. Also boost clocks can stil hit 5.6 with the UV. I have a 7i on order for the same price I paid for this one with the same specs (literally exact same) except Intel version, and I am now gonna cancel that order, they are on back order but I managed to snag it at 1999 with 4080 32gb 1tb which is what I paid for the AMD model. I don’t think I want to return the PRo anymore and am going to cancel the 7i order.
Hey! How are you liking it, eyeing this laptop as it’s the fastest gaming laptop available even today in 2024, especially for unity games like rust and tarkov.
Really wish he would have talked about future protecting. UE5 games are just starting to hit the market, and I expect will be optimized for 3D chips. I expect the 3d to make a bigger difference as time goes along. Would have been nice to have a discussion about if you need to worry about it, and if so when? 2 years from now or 4 when your going to replace it anyway........ I don't want to overspend but I don't want to buy something that I'll want to replace in a year.
Nice review, Im glad to see x3d making its way to laptops. Any idea if you will do a Lenovo Legion Slim 5 2023 14" review if/when it comes out? this is the one ive been most excited for all year since i love lenovo's build quality, its apparently out and shipped but i havent been able to find anything on it.
The thing with those 16 core 3d chips is that they dont make a lot of sense for purely gamers. Since its effectively an 8 core for gaming. So I wouldnt recommend buying one until its clear if a laptop 3d 8 core will be released. Its the same thing they did on the desktop where the 7950x3d was launched first and later the 7800x3d which makes way more sense for gamers and comes at a cheaper price. If youre gaming and doing like productivity high core count stuff then the 7945hx3d is probably a good option.
An 8-core 7745HX3D wouldn't really make sense to most people. You'd be paying i9/R9 money for a chip that only really shines when paired with the 4080/4090, making it a tough sell at the $2500 that laptops equipped with it would most likely start at. It'll be expensive, have atrocious battery life (same as the entirety of Dragon Range), and perform worse than a cheaper 13700HX in anything that's not gaming. Not that I wouldn't like to see it happen; the chip just doesn't have a place in the market.
@@steph_on_yt It depends on the price - if the jump to 16 core is relatively small sure, just grab the extra cores. However given good discount - why not - 8 cores are not slower in games
@@steph_on_yt According to what I heard dragon range uses less power than 13th gen though. I mean technically you can put an 7745hx3d into the same machines they put the 16 core variant and make it 200 to 300€ cheaper. As a gaming laptop most people will buy it for gaming anyway. And light productivity workloads would be fine on an 8 core.
@@TheDude50447 Dragon Range only uses less power under full load. The power-hungry chiplet design of the desktop-based dies makes for some hilariously bad battery life when doing basic things like video playback or light productivity; almost half of Raptor Lake-HX. Regardless, I don't think a lot of people will be attracted to a $3000 desktop replacement machine that only comes with an 8-core CPU despite being paired with a 4080. Might as well just spend the extra $500 for the full fat 16-core 7945HX3D or 24-core 13980HX.
@@TheDude50447efficiency under load is not the same as idle efficiency. Dragon Range has good efficiency when you stress the cores in workloads and games, but it has horrific uncore power (baseline power consumption when none of the cores are being used). Battery life is primarily determined by uncore power which is where AMD significantly regressed this generation.
Experientially, probably not worth the extra money. If you are already getting over 100 FPS (aside from hyper competitive settings), what difference does another 10-15 fps make? Would be interesting to see an 8 core CPU with 3D cache paired with an RTX 4060 or 4070.
Ironically, as a mobile workstation, the Titan with the i9 would be the better pick if you plan on doing some light productivity on-the-go. Dragon Range chips like the 7945HX have atrocious battery life (blame the I/O die), and only really shine in terms of efficiency when doing heavy work while plugged into the wall.
I didn’t understand one thing. To take advantage of the FPS boost with the Ryzen 9 3D , do I need an external SSD drive? And should I run the games from that external drive? What does “extra cache” means? Do I need to install any additional device to the laptop?
We can also safely assume list of games and programs benefiting from a lot of cache will only grow as intel is also going that route, and they are thinking about making massive l4 caches. I only assume making game that utilizes everything, when it needs to fit into 16MB that was mainstream up to like 3 years ago is not easy. once we have a lot of cache, even on lowest specs, we will see a big spike in ultilization
7945HX3D not in the channel yet although saw a large refresh of Rog Ally originally Asus Dragon 3D + 7840U Asus procurement from AMD. I estimate on channel and AMD q2 10Q 2.5 M of each; 7945HX3D and 7840U through Asus albeit unlike 3D, 840U is not exclusive to Asus but still minimal overall in the WW channel. I'll also add Aokzoa A1/A2 and One X Player 7840U are basically nonexistent in the channel. Ally is currently 44% Z1 Extremes and 56$ Z1 base. mb
And the non 3D does too. Gets AMD around getting in line at Microsoft for the compliment support let AMD inference address is albeit the classic situation of resource constraints and perhaps now AMD has a start up platform advantage". mb
As thorough as you are (and I always appreciate that tremendously), you failed to point out that Intel 12th and 13th gen CPUs leverage fast RAM substantially more-so than AMD. And while Asus may gimp their Intel laptops with trash 4,800MHz RAM, MSI does not (link posted below). If you're going to use an intel-based system to compare to, use one that is operating at full power, as-it-were. MSI's GE-78HX is the exact same cost as the system you compared with, but that system is hobbled by poor man's RAM. All those "intel just came in behind AMD" numbers from the game reports flip upside down when you run with proper RAM.
It's a shame there's no single CCD -X3D version for laptops. The 7800X3D on desktop can beat out the 7950X3D because it avoids scheduling issues and CCD-to-CCD latency
Hello jarrod..sorry to bother u..but can i just ask u about what gaming laptop would u recommend to me..preferably an asus..im thinking about the tuf f15 4050 or above..is it worth it?btw d price that here n d philppines is 1900$..& i think its over priced..or do have other laptops that u would recommnd but not super expensive..tnx man...
Het jarrods, if you test cpu, youshould test some popular esport game, where cpu is important, like csgo, dota2, its more meaningful than aaa game that gpu is more important
Why you put a ppwer limit 65w/130w to the 13980hx that has 157w peak? Let the laptop sort things out, if it can power both cpu and gpu and cool them why artificially handicap the 13980hx? No user does this... also if you do this why dont do it via undervolting the 13980hx that all users do because you can do it from windows gui ??? Your results are wrong
@@JarrodsTech cmon just test it out, even you make your own it's doesn't do any better as IETS GT500, i have one and it's blows like a jet and it does do cooling like crazy, And more better is it has an Air filter too. That thing really changing the game for me. So please! I been begging! You the one that can change these mindless redditors that thinking IETS GT500 is another useless laptop coolers. little that they know it's a beast of a laptop cooler that need more recognition and actually cools! Please make it come true!
Hi guys, Please help me decide to choose between : 1. Acer helios neo 16 with (rtx 4050, i5 13500Hx, 16Gb Ram ddr5) 2. MSI CYBORG 15 with (rtx 4050, i7 13620h, 16Gb Ram ddr5) 3. LENOVO LEGION PRO 5 2022 with (rtx 3050Ti, i7 12700H, 16gb ram ddr5). Which one should I buy for the long-term use considering the build quality and the specs above? I'm a data analyst but sometime needed to use app like photoshop and want to be able doing some gaming to relax?😅
Interesting. I thought it would perform better in CPU heavy games like total war. Heard lots of good things about using a 3d cache CPU for Guild Wars 2, as it is a very cpu heavy game.
Hi I just bought the acer predator helios 300 with inteli9-11900h and rtx 3070(2021 version) And i found the reviews that you did about this laptop but with another cpu(i7 -11800h) So is this pc is still bad even with the i9 11 gen or its better then the other one to see if gonna keep it or return it What d'u all think ?
It's such a good point about this chip only coming with a 4090 where you'll be playing at higher resolutions, which makes the difference very minor, if any, since you at that point are gpu limited. And since this isn't a desktop where you might change graphics cards over time, you'll never really see the benefit of the faster chip in a laptop. So, with the downsides that accompany this chip, it's almost better even at equivalent price to choose the non-x3d, and considering the higher price and the fact that it's only put in dated hardware, it's almost certainly a better option to go with the non-x3d chip and get a newer design with a better display, better aspect ratio and more robust cooling system.
The other thing to consider is more often than not you'll probably be playing with DLSS enabled, and DLSS quality on a 1440p screen has an internal resolution of 1080p, so you'll still see the benefit in a lot of games.
