The Feminine Horror | Renegade Cut 

I think there is an argument to be made that Carrie isn't monstrous because of menstruation so much as people's reaction to it. Her first period is met with ridicule by her classmates and anger by her mother. Her classmates are the ones that link her to pig's blood by dumping it on her. Historically, menstruation has been demonized to the point that we still feel uncomfortable talking about it. That has real consequences, as women will avoid talking to doctors about issues with reproductive cycles. Our avoidance and ridicule is the true monster.

Reminded of the Lisa Simpson line "Why is it when a woman has any power or agency of her own she's branded as a witch?"

What I like about Carrie is that it feels like a cautionary tale about the genuine harm of repressing and shaming female sexuality. All of Carrie's fears and insecurities stem from ideas that her mother had put in her head, and Margaret herself feels tremendous shame over having enjoyed sex with Carrie's father before he left her. Because Margaret's only coping mechanism was to rely solely on the toxic philosophies of patriarchal fundamentalism, she created an environment in which both she and her daughter were doomed from the start. Everything that happens in Carrie happens because no one told Carrie what menstruation was, or how it was natural and healthy. No one told her that it was okay to love herself and like the way she looked. No one told her that it was healthy to be attracted to another person and want to have fun. No one told Margaret that enjoying sex was okay, and that Carrie's father leaving was his fault and no one else's.

I think a good reverse example of this trope is the film The Stepford Wives because it’s a horror film that plays on the fears of women instead of on the fears of men. More specifically the fear of women conforming to societal expectations and becoming subservient to their husbands.

I was wondering what is your view on female ghosts (as a lot of horror movies have ghost women as the antagonist). I always felt they sort of represented male anxiety of women's revenge on the violence brought upon them, as they are often victims of violent males (as in the grudge). I've always seen a strong ambiguity towards women in horror movies. Horror quite often has female protagonists, while at the same time placing the undominated woman as a very dangerous threat. To me, it has always been the most interesting genre to think about female representation. Anyway! I'd love to see more on women and horror! :) Thanks for the video!

The first time I saw The Witch, there was a Q+A with Paul Ineson and he said something that really stuck with me: "Back then, any woman who had any qaulity that men didn't approve of was called a witch and burned." Or something like that, I don't remember what he said exactly.

You'd do yourself a huge favour by NOT relying on Campbell for information on the historicity of witches and witchcraft, as he was heavily influenced by theories that have largely been discredited (Like the Murray Thesis). Robin Briggs "Witches and Neighbors" is a very good introduction into where more recent scholarship has moved.

I totally disagree with the quote around 7:20 that says that we are supposed to see Carrie as “monstrous” because she bled. I believe that King was much more aware than that, and that he was intentionally playing off of men’s fears about women’s bodies *and* the mundane body horror that is puberty, menstruation, and being a woman in a patriarchal culture. At least until the ending of the story, the girls who make fun of Carrie and terrorize her for who she is and what she’s going through are the villains and the “monstrous” ones, and that’s how I think King meant it to be read and experienced when he wrote it.

I read “Carrie”, and I’ve seen the original film (screw the remakes) many times, and I don’t think her getting her period was the “onset” of any literal “curse” or powers... pretty sure she always had them. That scene was mostly to show how horrific high school can be for those who are ostracized, in my opinion. I also didn’t see her as a witch - her mother was much more of a classically stereotypical “witch” than she was, imo. Carrie’s character was telekinetic, but I never saw her as a witch.

I'm shocked that you're doing a video on feminine horror, yet not once mention Cat People (1943), Ginger Snaps or Jennifer's Body. You could do entire videos alone on the deep feminine themes of those movies.

Another great one. But my first thought was, there's no such thing as "simply a gender swap." Gender swaps are never just a cosmetic change. Consciously or not, they are a quest to explore the core, fundamental changes in the subtext of a character. If Wolverine is a romanticisation of toxic masculine trains, then a female Wolverine shifts everything that character represents, making something wholly new. The desire to explore this, whether its well explored or not, is a desire to explore gender itself, and its deeper ramifications. In the cosplay world, gender swapping is done all the time, from swapping Harley Quinn and the Joker to Lara Croft (who is, when all is said and done, a brilliant gender swap of Indiana Jones.) And it's never "simply a gender swap." There's always a deeper intention, a deeper exploration of gender in every single one, whether conscious or unconscious. Changing gender changes everything.

I can never understand hetrosexual mens fear of vaginas. Even as on myself. That freud quot is just alien to me. Maybe im just weird or its freud who is, which can be a posibilty since he seam to think incest thoughts are common.

Bringing in Freud now becomes a subject of interest and discussion on its own. His essays take on a more sinister tone when one realizes just how personally invested he is in these theories about men inherently wanting to mate with their mothers and the idea that women have no agency of their own (hysteria and so on). Granted his work still went on to influence patriarchal perception of women worldwide, so perhaps his own intent and personal feelings is a moot point. That said, it's cool that stories and films have evolved since these early cliches and that we have deconstructions of said cliches. The female monster, much like the feminist claiming of Lilith, has become a figure of the woman reclaiming her power and agency.

Freud did much more harm than good. I suggest everyone to read Deleuze&Guattari's "Anti-Oedipus"

It’s also quite fascinating to me - and says a lot about the gender dynamics of our culture - that horror is the cinematic genre in which women have the most speaking roles, and that it’s mostly as victims.

I think a lot can be said about alien and rosemary’s baby which make a horror out of the physical situation of pregnancy and the social one respectively.

I'm curious as to where Jennifer's Body lands in this conversation in its entirety

“Darling, that thing between you legs, does it bite?” - Freddie Mercury.

My dad is an English and History teacher, who reads enough doctorate level books for fun about folklore to say that yes, this is accurate. Lots of horror stories had their roots in cautionary tales from centuries (even millennia) ago, and the stories are typically aimed at adolescents who need to “stay in line”. Pre-Christian societies found femininity to be powerful, not necessarily evil, but too much power in one direction can lead someone astray. Think of cautionary horror stories or modern horror flicks where a main character enters a dark tunnel into a terrifying realm. Or emerges from a dark, bloody, or slimy and slithering underworld. Tunnel symbolism, symbols of openings, and mysterious characters that are females are all purposely and subconsciously done. Coraline is a great example, and so is Stranger Things. Another great one is The Lighthouse. The two men are fighting over the light atop the very phallic symbol of power, but the source of the light is within an oval shaped containment, which leads to demise. TL;DR if you think it’s about sex or vaginas, it is

I'm surprised no mention of Ginger Snaps, Suspiria (particularly in the witches section) or Jennifer's Body. That said, I still enjoyed this video and the sources that you included

Interesting video. I think it's important to make note of the duality of the slasher genre. While it's true women are slaughtered in these films, most of the victims are men and the final survivor is almost always a woman. Now one could argue that this is sexist in itself because we are conditioned to feel more scared for a woman in danger but the fact that the heroine is usually the one who ends up killing the villain in these films could definitely be seen as empowering. I know final girls also get a lot of criticism for being “boring” or “virginal”, subscribing to a patriarchal Christian ideal, but you have characters who are incredibly clever and resourceful, like Nancy from the original Nightmare on Elm Street. And it’s no coincidence that this genre of horror has a lot of female fans. Just some food for thought.

neat, but i wish it went MORE in depth.

Okay, this settles is. I'm gonna write a few short horror stories to get back into writing this Halloween season. Thanks for inspiring me, Leon!

You referenced Clover, Creed and Mulvey! Yes! The type of content I came here for. However, sad that Linda Williams and her theory of 'when a woman looks' did not get a mention! Great video.

I wish you went into more detail about how witches were regarded before the church deemed them amoral.

Eh, I just start cheering for them. Like, VVitch failed to make the ending horrifying; her shit family is gone and now she can fly! 15 year old me woulda loved that

This is a phenomenal video, I'm curious if you at all considered exploring the elements of transphobia present at the base of Norman and Buffalo Bill's characters in Psycho and Silence of the Lambs, whether by intention or by proxy

What about 1999's Rage the Carrie sequel? She discovered her powers, not through menstruation but through emotion. I would like to see more Feminine slasher/ horror films. That are directed or viewed from a Female perspective.

There could be a whole 1 hour video essay on the mother stereotype in horror movies

I really love the stories with a female monster that deal with casual sex. The reversal is so interesting: the woman is no longer vulnerable, the man is. The man is punished for casual sex as opposed to the woman.

I'm currently reading Barbara Creed's "The Monstruous Feminine" so this video could not have been dropped at a better time.

Ah a reference to Men, Women and Chainsaws in the first few minutes? Yes this is the rhetorical analysis I came here for 👍🏻👍🏻

My mother let me read Carrie in 5th grade. WTF.

Great video - I took a class with this exact topic once and I watched some of the best horror movies ever

“Norman himself is effable” Indeed he was. Anthony Perkins was very cute. 😂

This was such an excellent video! Great research and very spooky in a whole new way. Thank you so much for sharing!

One of my favorites has always been Cronenberg's The Brood, the protagonist's ex having an externalized womb in her lap, literally giving birth to embodiment of her rage to attack him, their daughter, their friends and family. He said that it was conceived during his own bitter divorce, and I believe it, it's so raw. And like so much of Cronenberg's work, he frames it with the stark horror of nature, a sort of awful wonder.

Great work with this one. Reminded me of the Women in Film class I took in Undergrad where we ready Mulvey's book and watched several films of the horror genre as well, although they were slightly different entries like The Fly, Aliens, and Trouble Every Day by Claire Denis. Aliens was my favorite of the bunch, because of the characters, world, story, and action that it created, although it definitely plays up the themes of motherhood and a female character acting like "one of the guys". Kind of ironic that it opened the doors for female action heroes but still had Ripley driven by maternal desires (although I maybe oversimplifying it just a bit as she was also driven by her desire to overcome her trauma from the first movie).

amazing video helped me out with writing my essay!

I’ve done almost nothing this afternoon except binge on your channel. So interesting!

Renegade Cut where have you been all my life ??!!!

Very nice. Chapter II, Castrator, is set to "Star Eater", a staple track in it's genre.

God, Freud is terrible. I also don’t think it’s fair to paint Norman Bates with the gay-panic brush, as the real life guy the character was based on, Ed Gein, was possibly gay (more likely trans) and went crazy from his terribly puritanical mother... similar to how Dahmer was gay, but that’s not relevant to why he was a serial killer.

this is so well done, thank you.

Great video! Have you done one on Rosemary's Baby? That film for me, as a woman, is the fucking scariest, and I've always been curious as to how it was created by a man who terrified women.

You could expand this to superhero movies. Superpowered women causing mass destruction has been a subject of a lot of male anxiety.

Really enjoyed this one!

Your analysis is so detailed! 👏

Really good video. I wrote an college essay about this like last year.

awesome videos, keep making more!

This is such an interesting video! I didn't even know that book existed, def gonna buy it now. Thanks!

Highly fascinating video, as usual. I don't usually comment on here but I felt like making an exception here for some reason. Also, props for giving mention to Species (even though you don't particularly like the film).

Holy crap. Loved this 😍😍

I love love love your work, it never disappoints. That is all.

This was one of your best videos to date

The vagina dentata myth has always been so fascinating to me. The fact that it's seen in the archaeological record of several separate societies shows the widespread belief in the supernatural power of women. The same goes for myths surrounding menstruation. Yours was a great analysis and I'd love to read the book that inspired it.

The Witch Hammer wasn't even commissioned, the author was an old school incel, who wrote it because he was kicked out of a German city after trying a witch hunt there.

on the witch title card, what clip is that from? its so spooky looking

Does anyone know the song at the beginning?

Always fun to examine these archetypes and consider what they might mean. I thought your discussion of the latter two archetypes was particularly strong. One very small thought, if i may...? In the past, when i've seen people talk about feminine horror, it's usually been used to talk about horror stories specifically focused on the fears and experiences of women, like bluebeard's bride or crimson peak. So at the beginning of the video, i was a little puzzled by the differing meaning. No shade, mind, just my experience.

What’s that one song that gets used for the into in a lot of these videos? I really like it

For the "Castrator" part, I do understand your choice of psycho as an example but that one is very ambigious and it felt a bit like going into theories too much while there are alot more that are way more blatant and to the point than you're making. It would be nice to see some Lars Von Trier bullshit and 'Misery' in that category.

👀 new to the channel

we rilley need a good female slasher

Hi there, I just wanted to ask if u have the text of your speech in this video? Since i decided to translate it. thnx

I do have disagree with Barbra though on Carrie. Periods are natural but in a way, blood coming out of you from an unfertilized egg is kinda weird. I’m saying this personally experience. Just like blood from a wound, blood from a vagina is still blood. While none of this is inherently scary you can make it scary and that’s what horrors about. If she’d just gone “aw shit it’s my period again” I maybe would have laughed instead. I feel like she made this a bit more deep or something than it’s suppose to. I dunno, I guess if something inherently masculine can be scary why not something inherently feminine?

Hell yes Laura Mulvey's Visual Pleasure and Narrative Cinema should be required reading for everyone

Ugh I instantly thought of Hitchcock’s Birds and the way he treated the leading actress on set.

I was really hoping you were going to mention Sleepaway Camp tho

This video is SO good. So, so good. I usually think about the female ghost figure through out history and in different cultures. Always the woman in white with the long (usually black) hair (sometimes brushing it, sometimes covering the face) that seduces and kill men or wants to steal children. Always that fear, always portrayed by a woman (rarely a man). The witch, the ghost...

On the subject of the 3rd archetype you could possibly fix the Bacchae in there. Though driven mad by Dionysus (coded gay), the women are supposed to be a source of fear. Their disregard for male social order and giving in to their appetites fits quite nicely into what you were talking about at the end!

Teeth is one of the best movies ever!

thank you!

My favorite female horror villain is May Canady of the indie horror movie 'May', a film to me which is about internalized objectification, where the character sees herself as a collection of body parts rather than a whole human being.

i'm just seeing this now, but the Propagandhi song "Ladies' Nite in Loserville" is perfect for this

I believe the Malleus Maleficarum was NOT commissioned by the Church, but made to look so by the author. Not that the Church did not share some of the author's beliefs, but he was more of a lone wolf.

A lot of the observations you and the cited authors make are explored in great detail in Stone's 1976 book, "When God Was A Woman", though in the context of ancient history and religion rather than film. The points about the demonisation and subjugation of women and women's sexuality are exactly the same, and I'm glad you used the word "patriarchal" because that really is the cornerstone of these prejudices and damaging archetypes.

Is impossible to include everything, but man I wish you mentioned Ginger Snaps.

To quote Barbara Creed: Because of what we can glean about gender attitudes from this feminine horror in film, there must be some value in analysis. Now that might be namedropping XD But for the rest you did a nice job, provoking my thoughts for the start of weekend. Thank you :)

The power to create life that women have made men afraid and jealous of them . Sorry not sorry.

I'm new here and I like it 🤗

11:45 -> What movie is this?

Would modern films like Midsommar, Hereditary, and Us fit in this category or would they be considered subversive?

I've read Laura Mulvey and Barbara Creed, its good shit

Carmilla is a novella about a woman vampire that predated Dracula by over 25 years. It has a lot of lesbian undertones to it, as the vampiress main victim was also a woman.

No mention of Silent Hill?

you pointed out that it's men who are villains/heroes but women who are victims. women have no agency; even when they're the villain- it's the motherly instinct, female hysteria, or some greater motive that drives them

Jess Zimmerman's "Women and Other Monsters" (2021) explores this concept along the mythological and social stigmas as well, showing that the fear and phobia associated with the feminine horror goes back a good few centuries as well. I would say that giantesses are another example. On film, while played for laughs the Attack of the 50 Foot Woman and her many imitations equated femininity with the kaiju archetype popularised by Kong & 'Zilla. Much of the horror in Ridley Scott's Alien and James Cameron's Aliens are both feminine as well (to the point where it took a gender-neutral protagonist to oppose the Queen Xenomorph time and again). Finally, another trope can be the association of femininity with domestic horror: To a patriarchal audience, the equating of the household and its various trappings with the imagery of the womb, the cave, the labyrinth become connected once associated with the claustrophobia of the haunted house or mansion. Consider how both films like Resident Evil (2000), I Am Mother (2020) are films 20 years apart and yet feature the same trope of a feminine A.I. keeping the protagonists "trapped." Thus, the Gothic horrors of the haunted house become an extension of the central female figure in the narrative herself. So yes, plenty of horror on-screen. Thanks patriarchal Hollywood >:(

9:17 he looks so familiar That, isn't Eliot, is it?

Anybody can find the paper she mentions in the video about women's sex drive being represed socially?

The idea that women comfortable in their sexuality will be killed in horror films is a disgusting cliché.

@8:41 castration anxiety has always seemed to me to be the root of cis-male transphobia. @12:56 isn't that entirely premised on a projection though? when you consider the prevalence of war-rapes and "corrective" rape against lesbian and bi women? loving your channel

Have you seen the kill count ? Like almost all the Friday the 13th has a super high male victim count and so dose Halloween

the sirens in ancient Greece tempted Odysseus with knowledge. they were also half chicken ladies who sung prettily, not sexy half-naked girls.

1:23 the cinematic gays owo

“Causing penis to disappear” Me: wait what?

I'm reminded of PhilosophyTube's video on witchcraft and how it totally fucked up women's rights for years and now I'm sad

This was incredibly fascinating! I love the subject of gender. But don't use Freud as a source? That dude was seriously wack.

Interesting but when you started quoting Freud I kind of lost interest - we all know Freud isn't taken seriously by any respectable psychologist!