The Fighter Jet Built Out of Spite | Dassault Rafale | History in the Dark 

Some things you didn't mention : - France wanted a nuclear capability, and they were the only one - France needed a replacement for the Navy fast, they were still operating Crusaders... they even thought about buying FA 18 while waiting for the Rafale.

The overlooked reason why the US won several contracts with the F35 against the Rafale is diplomacy. It's more about buying american than buying the best aircraft for your needs (I'm looking at you Switzerland)

UK "I say, good chaps, we did it. The Eurofighter Typhoon is Fantastic !" "Are we all happy with it ?" Germany "I'm quite happy with it !" Italy "Indeed, it turned out excellent !" Spain "We like it too !" UK "Execellent, EXXXCELLENT !!" "Now, let's buy the F-35..."

It reminds us of the history of the French atomic bomb. In the fifthies, Kennedy and the Americans tried to sell US technology to the French, as with the English. But De Gaulle refuses and orders that France develop its own nuclear program. It cost the French. It would have been so much easier and cheaper to buy and use US technology. But one thing in the deal was priceless : freedom to decide. And today, France is the leading country in civilian nuclear industry, and does not need to ask permission from the Americans if they decide to press their atomic button. Unlike the English... ;)

That Rafale promo hit harder than a 2,000 lbs JDAM!

French military strategy is basically " best for your bucks". One plane able to land on aircraft carrier ; do air-air ; air-ground ; electronic warfare ; Nuke is the best "plane for your buck", easier to find a mechanic, a technician and a spare part. Same logic now in the ground army, armored vehicules maybe not he "bests", but commercial trucks spareparts means it's easy and cheap to repare. Give French and dassault the US military development budget, they will make you X-wings and spaceships.

The fighter built out of spite... the most french thing ever

That intro tho

Merci de nous avoir donné une partie de la Belgique sur la carte de la France, on ne leur dira pas 🤫

France wanted a conventional carrier capable aircraft (not VTOL/STOL). The other countries had no conventional carriers. So any compromises to work better with carriers was overriden. So France created its own aircraft with those capabilities. No shame in that game.

UK : "I have the Royal Navy !!!!" France : "I have the Exocet..." UK : Falklands PTSD episode

People who overlook France's aviation capabilities are just ignorants. One of the oldest air forces in the world, and the first to use roundels. While many people hail the German technology that brought out the first jet aircraft during the Second World War, France had already been working on the Ramjet (what propels today the Meteor missile, to give you an idea), in god damn 1913 ! Aircraft at that time weren't even capable of supporting this new means of propulsion. So yeah, underestimating France is a long way from the truth. Also, even if a lot of people joke that France wanted the lead on the EF, one of the main points of interest for France was to develop a multirole aircraft that could be used on carriers ops, France being the only country to have one in Europe at the time (as far as i remember). Other countries have more and more aircraft carriers now, but as a result, they can't use their EFs, and have to resort to the American F-35 mainly, or other VTOL aircraft, which can't carry as much fuel or ammunition as a catapult launched aircraft (France being the only country in the world apart from the USA to have a nuclear-powered CATOBAR aircraft carrier). Also, I wouldn't say that all countries are totally happy with the EF. The fact that many countries work together on the same project leads to serious problems, the latest in my mind being Germany, which refused to allow the EF to be exported, while other countries wanted to export it.

Sometimes the best things are created out of spite.

The eurofighter needed to fulfill requirements which did not meet France's requirements. But exactly what were the requirements that shaped Eurofighter project? Because the Rafale is basically better in every way and cheaper. It's only slightly slower, which as we know isn't actually that important because going past mach 2 in a fight doesn't happen much. Especially since the rafale can carry a bigger payload and has a bigger range. Now that the rafale can also use meteors, with its range, it's a better interceptor. And once again, it's cheaper.

France loves doing things themselves. 🇫🇷🇫🇷🇫🇷

Id love to know how the Eurofighter and Rafale stack up against each other. The Rafale cost less, developed a lot faster than the Eurofighter and imho...looks better.

The french have a very advanced military for the budget they have. Their Tigre attack chopper, their IFV, the LeClerc MB tankare a few examples.

Ok, you got me, I got to respond. Typical POV in the english speaking world, acting as if France is always the kid in the room, when it is at the very core of every succesful european cooperation (for weapons and much more) : Airbus (Germany, Spain), MBDA (UK), Naviris (Italy), Ariane (All Eu)... the EU itself. Oh and what about international projects like CERN and ITER. Sure France is not a succesful nation in terms of cooperation and diplomacy. There is just much more to this country and international politics than what your newspapers try to sell you. Almost nobody take decision based on spite at this level.

The use of radar absorbing materials would mean its a low observability aircraft. Though not true stealth it helps make the aircraft more survivable in combat zones.

Did you just put a map of France with Walonia and the Romande Switzerland (the French speaking side of Belgium and Switzerland), all under the French flag ?

they tried to snob the french.. something you don't do.. 😂😂

All my french compatriotes defending the french map in the comments:

The intro was unexcepted, but still very appreciated

ouaw a not entirely bashing video about us, that's scarce these days. Nonetheless they're are a few misunderstandings here and there that would need to be taken care off*. First the everlasting myth of france not supporting being the leader of the Project. Jeez what a pure BS, we shared concorde, jaguar, alphajet, airbus, eurocopter etc... before and it was pretty successfull and i'd dare to say jaguar was a pretty strong sign of good will as we had the mirage F1 already running and didn't really need anything else at that time. So basically, germany wanted a beyond stall capable aircraft, wich they studied with the US and the X-31 programme. That meant underside intakes and vectoring thrust. The problem with that is you won't carrier launch a big amount of the plane with that configuration (maybe a part of the front). The rafale was above all, meant to replace our venerable crusaders we flew since 64, so the navy part was mandatory to us and was a no no from that point on. Then the brits, italians, spaniards told us we don't need that either as we moved to STOL/V naval opérations and won't need it either. So we had the choice of buying f-18 off the shelves wich we tried in 1988 . Then rafale had to assure the nuclear tactical deterance and deep strike missions, where the others said too bad we already have the tornado running and we don't need that either. So basically we were being told: ok buy f-18 to the yankees and tornados to us and get just a part of the EFA program. So, as we still had a working aircraft industry able to make it, we oddly decided to keep it working and built the plane we needed by ourselves. Looks pretty sound to me, and didn't need any other reasons , especially bad ones like bad temper, ego or any other kind stuff our british friends like to think and share.

Here's a fun fact: In many official air competition taking place in different countries, the Rafale and the F-35 alongside several other planes were competing among different stats,could be speed, agility, you name it... well Rafale finished first, in almost every category, yup, even outclassed a sixth gen aircraft like the F-35 in many way (and just fun fact, the Russian SU-35 finished last). The reason why the Rafale is damn expensive s because of all technology brought on board, the helmet hud is connected to the cockpit, like to the point of when your eyes watch something for five seconds, it becomes lock as a target if you wanna throw missiles at it or it's your eyes doing the laser guidance of a bomb, thanks to the helmet tech again. It can also carries a tactical nuke under its wings in case someone wants to try invade us

0:14 WTF happened to the Belgian and German borders with France? 🤨🤨🤨

Your map of France is wrong. You added "Wallonie" (french-speaking Belgium region) in north east. I don't think the Belgians will like it. The Rafale is a beast. What is the closest to a true "omnirole" plane. And manages to compete with the Typhoon even on its favourite domain, air superiority. Excellent musical choice BTW!!!

France was thinking of the foreign sales market. An all French aircraft means they can less it to any country without permission.

It was definitely NOT built of out spite. This is so derogatory... The French don't let their feelings dictate their action as you seem to assume. Those strategists at the helm are very rational and goal-oriented and always knew that they did not share the same vision of the military as their neighbors. France has more ambition in that regard despite its limited funding, given it has a nuclear carrier and nuclear deterrence partially based on those fighters. France needed a carrier-based fighter and Dassault provided. Germany and the UK never really had the same objective and all they wanted was a nimble 4.5 interceptor. France wanted a true Omnirole fighter so they built what may well be the most versatile fighter aircraft to date. Compromises were made on the interceptor role but it appears the Rafale is superior to te Eurofighter in that area too despite its limited thrust-to-weight ratio (pilots complain about it) and speed. End of story. Plus no, the Rafale is not something entirely new: Dassault has a tradition of building upon previous models and experiments. The Rafale is often said to be a Mirage 2000 but better in every way. Retains the delta wing, adds a second engine and the whole Spectra electronic warfare and sensor integration suite. it's a very logical evolution.

You forgot that France also has Thales (formerly Thomson CSF) for radar systems and Safran (formerly SNECMA) for engines. The design of the engines was a major point of contention with the UK. The UK needed to find a new engine for the Tornado and wanted to use the Eurofighter program for that. This was unacceptable to France and SNECMA, which was developing the M88.

At least the British company Martin-Baker supplies the ejection seats. Every cloud...

Heh. I think you get bonus points for the Gojira Olympic montage in the intro. I hear those fucking Rafales zip by my house often. They ued to wake up my baby daughter. Now she never naps. Funny thing is those fuckers are flying out of the Landes near Mont de Marsan....which is close to Gojira's stomping grounds. All geumpy babies aside ..it is pretty cool seeing the squad pass by.

Competition is essential to maintain capabilities of the West. France has an ego greater than its size, but keeping the ability to build nuclear systems, jet engines, and fighter jets was really wise. And one thing you forgot to mention about the Swedish Gripen is its ability to takeoff and land on a roadway. That really sets it apart from all other western fighter jets. It is also built to be maintained by draftees, which also makes the maintenance chain easier. All in all, the Swedes were very practical in their design. And all those uber-capitalists that say everything will always be more expensive in a socialist country are easily proven wrong with the example of the Gripen.

Australia should have bought this. Beautiful design, outdoes the FA18 SuperHornet

Nice. This video’s kinda different than others. I like it.

Can't deny that the Rafale is much prettier than the Typhoon.

Every one seems to want to talk about France... For some reason.

a lot of nations turn towards saab gripen not just because of the cost. there are a plenty of other factors as well 1. the saab is smaller and has shorter combat range. this is not strictly a con. many nations with unfriendly relations with their neighbours need to be very cautious when purchasing arms. a short range intercepter like the gripen is good optics to make it look like your purchase is for defensive purposes, not offensive. so it's less likely to provoke more tension 2. saab gripen is able to take off and land on any 800m stretch of straight highway. it can also be re-armed and re-fueled by 1 trained and 5 untrained personel. that makes the gripen very low in running cost and very low in facility demand. you almost worry that gripens can be used by insurgents because of how easy it is to run them 3. the latest variant gripen-E makes the gripen a proper 4.5th gen multi-role fighter. it's more expensive, sure. but its capability gap towards other modern delta wing fighters like the rafale and typhoon is now either closed or completely reversed

Germany and UK wanted an air to air interceptor. France wanted a fighter/bomber. The EuroFighter underbody air intake is good for manoeuvrability, but that means that it's not meant for heavy loads : - You cannot launch such plane from an aircraft carrier using a catapult. - You cannot carry heavy bombs under the plane (including atomic bombs). Given widely different requirement, France said basically "we have no use for that crap, we'll make our own plane, and, btw, manoeuvrability for dogfight is dumb in the age of long range missiles".

I am so tired of everyone stating ‘supercruise’ is somehow a modern military aviation advancement. Concorde was doing it in the 1970s. Sigh…

It seems to me that in the equipment that must make a 5th generation aircraft (according to US standards) the aircraft must have the super cruise mode, right? And from memory the F-35 does not have it while the Rafale does. So the F-35 is not a 5th generation aircraft. What is the use of stealth when a Rafale with its optical radio equipment and infrared sensors can detect a so-called "stealth aircraft" at more than 150 km?

The biggest difference between the rafale and the gripen which is extemely relevant is that the Rafale is basically ITAR free. So it can be sold to non US aligned nations without any issue. The Gripen heavily uses American composants and technologies so it doesnt have access to that market and is limited to the US aligned nations where the F35 is currently the king. Difficult for the gripen to compete with the US persuasion power. So in terms of commercial success, the Rafale is way better positioned than the Gripen and Dassault has already decided to give up on the US-aligned market where the competition with the F35 is quite unfair due to the geopolitical weight of the US behind their plane.

Lol Gojira song taken from the Olympic games just a few days ago ... Don't say "still in service today" of course it is, this Rafale program is mean to be constantly upgraded. The current version just released is the F4 Standard, the next version, the F5 Standard is in progress (BTW F4 and F5 totally compete with any 5th gen and have the same type of features and can track any 5th gen fighter by using infrared radars and other tools) The F5 version or the super rafale version (if they decide to do it) will be integrated with a 6th gen system (with drones etc) The Eurofighter is simply not on the same table. Also about the price, F35 and Rafale have almost the same price.

that intro is so fucking good. ca ira ca ira ca ira, les aristocrates on les pendras *gojira starts playing* However, I am pretty sure that map of France is not good lol. You took chunks of Belgium and gave them to France lmao

We are this much closer to History in the Dark countryballs.

Europe: "France that's just a mirage on meth" France: "hon hon hon would you like to see us fire a nuke from it" Europe: "a w h a t"

Judging by the Intro script, Guess you're a Gojira fan? That I mean the Metal Band, not the Japanese name for Godzilla.

Rafale in french both mean : Burst of Fire and Gust of wind , there are probably no more fitting name for an aircraft.

2:57 the T in Dassault is silent.

Excellent ! But France's map cutout is wrong.

Wtf is that France shape in the intro ?? (I think you're right, Belgium must be our)

About the thumbnail: Although it is the same word, Rafale in this context means "gust of wind", in line with Dassault's not-always-followed tradition of naming its military aircraft after meteorological phenomena.

0:13 Thanks for giving us back Belgium. You are welcome to France any day

COOL 'lil upload....much appreciated the humor with the narration, like REALLY! Source videos all freaking awesome, and the pacing was clean throughout the 21:44 length...KUDOS...got me hooked...you're now at 53K +1 Subscribers :-)

Like #1. I miss when you used to intro with "I am your ho0o0o0o0ossst, DTC, you are the reason this content remaAaAinn...z!"

loved your video, kiss from France (and UK we did it alone ! :) )

The video's great, just you've added half of Belgium to France in the map you're using. Please do not fed up our Belgium friends !

Dassault's Rafale is hardly a failure, so I wonder what is meant by this episode.

Aside from not having a carrier version, what is really so different about the Eurofighter and Rafale? Yes, the Eurofighter is not used for nuclear weapons, but it has similar sized conventional cruise missiles. Both are things the Rafale solves with slightly modified versions of the base model (both mostly strengthening a part at the expense of some added weight), so why wouldn't the same modifications to Eurofighter have solved that for France? The only other thing I've heard in the comparison, was that the Eurofighter didn't need 2 seats as some models of Rafale did, because it had a better ways of reducing the workload for the pilot. Slightly more advanced in helmet controls, etc. And that was a Rafale pilot saying, that that's the only difference. Looking up the range, they seem virtually identically as well, so no idea where the "more optimized long range interceptor" is supposed to come in. Not like the Eurofighter can't corner either, as a matter of fact that might be it's most capable feature, so hardly your typical fast in a straight line only interceptor. The Eurofighter and Rafale pretty much fulfill the exact same role/requirements. They are certainly not used differently today. Seems like everybody could have produced a single cheaper plane, possibly even a better one and most likely faster, if they were just a marginal bit more flexible.

Just my opinion as a Brit, i think they both have their strong suits but the Raffle wins in the looks department.

So, the British were to take the lead on the project, while the only one of the countries with a SUCCESSFUL record of exporting supersonic fighters, France, was to take a back seat... Are we laughing yet? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

As a french guy, I'm happy to see this video... Well made on top of that 🙂

That intro was a killer And is one of the reasons i love my country so much

Including half of Belgium as part of the map of France, good job...

The fact is Dassault had already developed the Eurofighter and it was called the Mirage 4000.

UAE and Indonesia already bought the plane. As of now there are 500 Rafales produced or ordered. 280 delivered + 220 to be delivered. Regarding the export ratio = 220 for France and 280 overseas

Good british accent Darkness!

France initially had poor sale numbers of the Rafale because the early models (Rafale F1) simply had a very limited mission profile. As usual, the press kept reminding me why they're totally untrustworthy and useless because they used that opportunity to throw mud at the French. Once the Rafale F3 was available, sales suddenly picked up because customers finally had a fighter with the mission profile they needed. The new standard is the Rafale F4 with the F5 in the works. The other thing to keep in mind is that Dassault's fighter aircraft branch (they also make executive jets and aerospace products) has a limited manufacturing capacity to keep costs down. That means Dassault's monthly production output is only about 3 Rafale jets. Dassault isn't worried about its orders, it's worried about filling all those new orders on time. As far as the SAAB Gripen being equal to the Rafale, the last two fighter competition evaluations from Switzerland and the Netherlands vehemently disagree with you. In fact, the Gripen was near the bottom of the pack (sorry Gripen fanboys, I only read the evaluation reports). The Rafale F4 was very close to the F-35 in terms of capability with the F-35 being slightly ahead. At this point fighter aircraft fanboys are banging on their keyboards, demanding proof of my blasphemous words. Since RU-vid deletes all links that are not from RU-vid, you'll just have to do what I did and Google it.

You bang on about how Rafale should be pronounced but butcher Dassault 🙄

then there is the scaf partnership that everyone already think is going to fail, Dassault is here "o noo" the implementation of all the 6th gen tech being already planned for the rafale, all i'll have to do is the airframe...

Vive la France

i'm french and I have to say it, its one of the best resume of the Rafale genesis that I have ever seen, even compared to some french videos. Good job. But can be improved, specially when its comes to talk about competition ;) Its much more complexe than cost, stealth and generations.

in french, in "dassault" L and T are silent. France made the Rafale alone and it's the best of the best. Europe made the Typhoon "useless square trash can"... and they buy the F35 "the almost flying trash can that costs a fortune".

The french map you used is really funny for so many reasons.

video starts at 3:40

Can’t wait for this bad boy in warthunder

Loved the addition of the Olympic version of the Ah! Ca Ira .... let's hope the Olympic ain't that zealous enough to take it down...

Dassault was fonded by Marcel Dassault know before the WW2 as Marcel Bloch. He did a lot of things for french aviation

Very good story. As a french guy I can confirm we do love our planes and making things our way :) Very good storytelling, I'm still laughing from the way you expose our quirks. Have a good day mate ^^

Whaaaatt??? The French being uppity and snobby??? Never

my favourite story of the rafale sales guy was when he turned up in australia... he was told to go home. the choice was made with LM. before even a tender was announced. its on YT. its hilarious to watch. hes almost crying. the best point about the rafale is that it can work alone. no need for tankers, rc135 join rivets etc. the gripen is awesome. even more so when you see how fast you can update the platform as well as how cheap it is to run. the british f35s are no more than hanger queens - barely used because the are so broke they cant afford the sorties.

Keep in mind that the first time this plane was used in combat was in 2011 in the skies of Libya. It was the conflict that resulted in the death of Muammar Gaddafi.

The Rafale is an iterative development of the Mirage 4000, a prototype. It has a massive rudder at right angles to its wings, so its a staggering good radar beacon, and the french have limited production capacity. The F35 has the radar return of a hummingbird, we can churn them out like hotcakes, they supercruise and they cost as much as the rafale.

Where did you get this France map ? Thats insane.

Actualy the rafale is a success story in every way. He was exported in all country who bought Mirage 2000, got better capability for everything against the Typhoon or other Fighter Jet and one of the most important thing is the "easy logistic" for Navy and Air Force, they share 80% of same components between all the rafale version. And who are not happy with their "Eurogarbage fighter" ? UK, Germany, Spain and Italy bought F35. Congratulation.

damn man I know you wanted to use that song as soon as you heard it lol

The gojira olympic song just hooked me to the video 😂

Typical Dassault behaviour. They, as part of the Anglo-French SEPECAT Jaguar programme, promoted their own Etendard over the Jaguar M. They said that the prototype Jaguar M had poor engine control as at the time the afterburner only came on at 100% dry thrust meaning a sudden jump in thrust and less than ideal speed control. They also stated that the Jaguar M had poor single engine characteristics linked to the afterburner issue. However, the Etendard, which the French Navy ordered adopts the flying character8stucs of a brick if its single engine fails.

DASSAULT was called BLOCH before WW2. This company has a long history in fighter planes.

Dassault - the “l” and “t” are silent. So “Dassau”

Rafale also means gust of wind which fits dassault's previous poetic names

Today's France doesn't have that shape on the map... Did you steal Alsace and Lorraine? Or annexed Wallony (French speaking Belgium) ?

Also, the French wanted the plane to be able to carry a nuke. Which the others didn't because, well, most of them didn't have nukes in the first place.

What is that hunchback you made to french map like if we annexed Luxemburg and part of wallonie?

Epilepsy warning would have been a good choice before the intro 😂

The rafael is basically a model of the eurofighter. A lot of comparisons which the french took prior to pulling out. I agree they seem to have got what they wanted and respect to them for that. Saying that the typhoon is a very good aircraft itself 🎉

Great video ❤ Gojira intro ❤ Geneva convention level of massacre on french names ❤ (I'm not even french)

Was making aircraft cheaper in the past in the past you could see multiple types of aircraft being built now it is the only see one type of aircraft being built from countries

Rafale Best actual fighter

L'introduction est un modèle. Merci beaucoup.