Criminally underrated film. I think what you call "that scene" actually works in the context of the film and IS pivotal to the film. It forms the main turning point in Shiros character. Shiro thinks that this young woman is being coy - she has a young child, and wants a man. He attempts to break what he sees as sexual tension by forcing himself on her, but she makes it clear that its actually NOT what she wanted. She is GENUINELY pious - not coy. What she actually does want is a friend, not a partner. This blows Shiros fucking mind, and he starts to recognise the importance of being humble. He actually becomes dedicated to his mission because of what Riquinni says to him about breaking free from the claustrophobic madness and suffering of the world. She becomes a mentor for him. If you watch the film carefully it does also hint at Riquinni being a prostitute herself - hiding money in her boot, which is a common practice and cliché of prostitution in Japan. She is trying to support her young child, but is clearly regretful about what she has to do, and tries to make up for it by proselytizing for her religion. Shiro realised that she was a prostitute, but quickly realised that she was in fact not trying to get business from him. Shiro starts wanting to help her, and by extension, help the world by uniting it with the first space launch.
I've seen the 'Riquinni as prostitute' theory a couple times, and there's definitely something to it. I got more of an impression that it was maybe a past experience she'd had before she turned to religion, but it's to the film's credit that you can read into it this way. What you're describing with that scene between Shiro and Riquinni is probably what Yamaga was going for, to be fair. I just think they implemented it poorly (and if you're using that sort of subject matter, if you don't get it right it falls flat on it's arse). Reflecting on it, I think it's another example of an incredibly ambitious movie made by gifted but novice creators: they didn't get everything right but even what they got wrong is worth discussing.
Alot of words to justify a scene that's just fucking weird. By all accounts your position makes sence but I still didn't need to see that and the movie wouldn't be lacking without it
@@keeperofthecheese I'm saying that, you're right but the scene still just isn't important enough in my eyes to outweigh how fuckin strange it is and make it's inclusion especially valuable and appropriated
I think you missed the point of this movie. Honneamise is a story about individuals and nations finding purpose through space exploration and faith (in Shiro's case), something that give humanity an alternative to fighting futile wars and constantly searching for trivial pleasures. The movie shows how both Shiro and the world he lives in change by finding something to believe into. The ending was something awe-inspiring to me, I think it manages to deliver its message once one understands how to view the story in the right way.
The concept was definitely there, and I can see where Yamaga was trying to take it. It's just that Shiro isn't a strong enough character to hang that story/theme on. Even before "that scene" I wasn't all that fond of him, and after it? Yeah, man could have stopped the war and cured world hunger by the end of the film: I'd still despise him. I think that's what Rob and I were getting at when we said that Royal Space Force has these amazing moments and sequences but not enough to tie it together. But you can still see the formation of a Gainax story in it, which they went on to implement way more successfully in the future.
Truly a work of art of a film. A deeper analysis isnt needed to see how beautifully crafted this film is and though there are some misunderstandings with the rape scene which should have been more clear, it is more than a solid film and heavily underrated. This movie surpasses movies like Avatar and Star Wars when it comes to world building, every single thing is unique, but also realistic in a way, like you feel like a civilization could actually look this way you know? Its not a mecha or a steampunk anime, it is very human but also separate from how our world is type of world design, and the soundtrack fits perfectly with the setting, theme and story. The deep theme alongside the beautiful world and the story of Shiro is the best combination that every producer dreams of making right. If this film re released today without the rape scene and got the propper attention it would be an instant classic that would be remembered alongside the evangelon series. But unfortunately it will likely stick to the bottom of the pit with all of the other obscure masterpieces of anime film.
@@frankjaeger2565 I said Anno movie because it was the fact he worked on it which motivated me to watch it in the first place, not because I think he directed it, if that's what you are implying with your use of possessive form (which I wouldn't use myself to refer to someone being the director of something). Also, don't ruin my hilarious condiment joke.
i don't understand this perspective. Why is it that people have this need for a protagonist to be a morally upstanding, good person? Clearly the lead of this movie is a piece of shit, AND THAT'S OKAY.. There are movies with serial killers as protagonists, but when a dude commits sexual assault in a movie, THAT's suddenly a bridge too far for you? It makes no sense.
I don't think all protagonists need to be morally upstanding/good/etc, let me stress. Some of the best stories out there have thoroughly messed up protagonists, after all. It's more a question of whether the writers want their protagonist to be sympathetic or not. If you're after a sympathetic protagonist, you generally need to keep them on the straight and narrow (or if they're up to no good, they'll need justifiable reasons for it). Royal Space Force kinda tried to have their cake and eat it with Shirotsugh: they wanted a sympathetic protagonist but they also wanted to make him morally dubious. I think that's a big reason for why this didn't land with us at all.
@@WeHeartGiantRobots Gainax made most of the cast in Evangelion morally dubious (with positive aspects) as well, Ikari Shinji does some really messed up things towards the end of series and in The End of Evangelion but we still sympathize with him on a human level. I think that’s one of the aspects of the former Gainax team that made them so great and ground-breaking. No character is one-dimensionally good or evil. Though the victims, in those cases, are more sympathetic than the perpetrators.
We Heart Giant Robots Anyone can do an anime review my friend - we come here specifically for the banter and nonsense. Keep up the great work, I do appreciate the amount of editing you do for these.
Maybe the movie doesn't have any "plot" besides, making a rocket and getting it up to space, but it would be very much like The Right Stuff then and that's considered a great movie. We're on a journey with these characters through their hardships and that's what makes it entertaining. I thought Bandai was a model/ toy maker at the time.
Anno and Yamaga supposedly completed an entire storyboard for it (titled 'Uru In Blue') back in the 90s before falling by the wayside. Although Yamaga is supposedly still working on it, and there's some reports it might be released in 2022. Be interesting to see how it plays out.
Hol up......I see no giant robots. I'll overlook this transgression this time... But only as long as you keep doing the things I like. So, you know, more anime reviews and arguments. Also Macross Plus MD Geist Five Star Stories
No giants robots, but it's a wonderful analysis of an obscure old anime with spaceships that only boomers would care about, so I like it. But do you know what I'd *LOVE?* An analysis of an obscure old anime that only boomers would care about with spaceships that could pass as giant robots because they have _arms._ *You know the one I mean*
Rotbeam (other commenter) has a point. Compelling, believable characters should inspire ambivalence in thoughtful viewers. Because all real human beings do. Of course assault is abominable. But so is militarism, and Shiro is among other things an agent of a militaristic state. Despite all these humanly recognizable flaws, he is a compelling character. He suffers, copes with confusion and self-doubt, and in the end perseveres. That’s deeply compelling stuff. Caring about a main character doesn’t require liking him or her. And it certainly doesn’t require that their misbehavior receive a valid justification at the surface level of the text. Read Dostoevsky’s Notes from Underground. The narrator is variously repellent, but he is deeply recognizable and you care what becomes of him. Not sure what you guys’ bar for being “sympathetic” is, but if it precludes finding Shiro compelling, which he and his story - the story of these broken people living under and shaped by coercive institutions - undeniably are, then so much the worse for the definition you’re working with.
Oh shit, I thought I’d replied to this. Apologies for ignoring you, cos you raise some good points. First up, you get major props for the Dostoevsky comparison: no-one does depressing existentialism like those Russians. Secondly, I’m gonna bring up another one of big man Fyodor’s protagonists to explain why I don’t think Shiro’s arc works. Raskolnikov from ‘Crime And Punishment’ is a fantastic example of of writing a sympathetic character who’s responsible for some heinous shit. He’s driven by the sense of his own impotence and emasculation to murder a perceived wrongdoer, and in the process also kills an innocent just to cover up his crime. But he remains sympathetic because we’re shown the consequences. The murders occur right at the start of the novel, which means that Dostoevsky has an entire book to explore how Raskolnikov’s crimes slowly but surely tear him apart. We get a clear insight into why he’s committed the acts he has, how he tries to justify it all to himself, and how it ultimately destroys him. For this reason, he remains sympathetic. Contrast and compare Raskolnikov with Shiro. Rakolnikov’s motives are established pretty much right out the gate. His sense of failure clashing with his desire to have mattered, to have made a difference, coupling with his sense of shame at failing his family and having to be rescued by his sister. Those are all traits that can drive a guy to the crime he commits. Shiro’s main traits, meanwhile, are that of apathy and detachment. He’s this directionless, indifferent guy searching for meaning but unwilling to really put himself out there to find it. So his actions come out of left-field, and not in a good way: there’s no set up for it. What’s more, this occurs three-quarters into the movie. Yamaga gave himself no time to explore the ramifications of Shiro’s actions. All we get is a Rocky training montage and then the guy’s off to space. Shiro doesn’t earn his redemption in the way Raskolnikov ultimately does. I guess what I’m trying to say, a few glasses of rum later, is that I’m certainly not against the idea of a character remaining sympathetic whilst doing bad things. I just don’t think that they pull it off with Shiro. Goes back to the issues with the movie as a whole: they were a talented but inexperienced team of creatives, throwing a lot of stuff at the wall to see what might stick.
Oh it'll probably happen at some point. Rob seems hell-bent on covering any and all things Gundam related. Which means I get to make him suffer through ZZ again.
came here from your gun buster vid, I haven't watched all of it but I wanna say your vids are great, editing is great, but they could be shorter and I think your avatars are just ok. I know you weren't asking for advice, so if you don't want any, I hope you don't see this comment
>The Film That Made (And Nearly Killed) Gainax What is everything Gainax has ever made? Also it's pronounced OH-NEE-AH-MAYS. (Yeah.. Royal Space Force is probably the better title)
I absolutely LOVE this film. I enjoy the character arc, the supporting characters, and the animation is amazing.. The only thing I don't like - is that attemped rape scene. I've always interpreted it as the moment when the protagonist gives into his dark nature - maybe he felt that he was "owed" after helping her so much - but she clobbers him instead. Afterwards, when she apologizes - THAT was awkward. Makes you wonder if maybe she came from an abusive background that was never covered? And knowing what he did - he doesn't understand why he did it, but only that he did... It's out of place, and it's the one scene I wish they had not included in the film. Everything else, disjointed though it may have been - worked well.
Ah, yes, like the fucking ant I am, I'm going to recommend an anime that I want you to review that you probably don't want to. Are you going to do a review on Gunbuster? Also, I know you don't do series, as most of your stuff is reviewing OVAs and Movies, but would you check out Magic Knight Rayearth? It's a wee bit different from your usual mecha grind, I think it would be something refreshing to do.
We'd like to do more in the way of series, but it often turns into an absolute nightmare cos both of us have to watch through them before we can record (Gundam Wing took 3-4 months to put together). That being said, I've heard good things about Clamp's stuff before. Could well be worth checking out.
Apparently he didn't, I own the 2000 DVD that has a commentary by Yamaga and Takami Akai, that unfortunately isn't on any of the other releases, and that's the final thing they comment on in the commentary, saying that the first drawings in the end credits depict his return from space.
@@WeHeartGiantRobots This is pretty cool. An old promo for Wings of Honneamise. Check it out. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-elYCPWoQ85Y.html
