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The First Generations of Christians in History - Dr. Steve Mason

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Steve N. Mason is a Canadian historian of Judea in the Graeco-Roman period, best known for his studies of Josephus and early Christian writings. He was professor of classics, history and religious studies at York University in Toronto. He has been Kirby Laing Chair of New Testament Exegesis at Aberdeen University (2011-2015) and works today at the University of Groningen, Holland.
He discusses the earliest recorded history of the first Christians live on MythVision Podcast.
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Timestamps:
0:00: Introduction
5:20: Paul and the first Christian generation: ca. 30 to 65 CE
15:18: On Paul’s letters
20:20: Criterias of authenticity: citations and judgment about “real-life quality”
21:07: Superchat 1: Are the lenghts of Paul’s letters typical for the ancient world?
23:05: Continuation of criterias of authenticity...
33:14: Paul’s letters as real conversations
38:55: Superchat 2: Can you elaborate on the spread of Christianity among the gentiles before Paul?
41:23: That Paul wrote some letters better explains the evidence
42:34: Paul not interested in mundane aspects of Jesus’ life
46:16: Rethinking Paul’s key term “to Euangelion”
57:39: Paul’s first summary of “to Euangelion”: 1 Thessalonians
1:15:23: On 1 Thess’ questions to Paul: last half of the letter
1:27:01: Paul’s first mention of Judaeans
1:29:59: Superchat 3: Does Paul believe in any kind of physical resurrection?
1:33:10: 1 Corinthians: Internal conflicts among Christ-followers
1:48:06: Philippians (from prison - in Ephesus?)
1:55:43: Galatians
2:04:15: Romans
2:07:03: Pseudo-pauline letters
2:07:43: Opposition to Paul’s announcement [gospel] I: Jesus’ brother James and eminent students
2:24:18: Opposition to Paul’s announcement II: Apollos and Jesus as wisdom-bringer
2:26:25: Summary and end of presentation
2:32:30: Superchat 4: Were Paul’s detractors generic “messianic teachers”?
2:33:50: Superchat 5: An estimate of what portion of people were converted by Paul?
2:36:33: Superchat 6: The meaning of Caesar’s household in Philippians?
2:40:21: Superchat 7: How much diversity of thought was there about an afterlife?
2:46:17: Superchat 8: more on Superchat 3.
2:50:43: Superchat 9: Did Paul suffer from psychosis or schizophrenia?
2:56:54: Superchat 10: What do you think of the “we” passages of Acts?
3:00:40: Superchat 11: On the hebrew etimology of Peter’s name
3:07:52: Superchat 12: On Dr. Mason’s respectful attitude towards believers
3:14:08: Teaser on the second Christian generation presentation
#MythVision #SteveMason #History

Опубликовано:

17 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 572

@jmiller1918 2 года назад

These "First Generation" and "Second Generation" videos are both fantastic. I learned more about early Christianity from these than I have from many of my books on these subjects. Dr. Mason is a real treasure.

@matthewsmolinsky5605 3 года назад

Your new best guest (well, Dr. Bob will forever be THE guest, but Dr. Mason is on fire lately!)

@michaelb.2413 3 года назад

🔥🔥

@onedaya_martian1238 3 года назад

Wow !! What an interesting program. MythVision, you've done it again !!!

@Erin__D 3 года назад

It took me all damn day, off and on, but I watched the entire thing! Amazing content! Great guest! Really looking forward to future episodes with Dr. Mason

@neophyteone712 3 года назад

This was by the far the best and most coherent model explaining early Christianity

@dh1335 3 года назад

Watch, What the 1st century Christians believed , by David Bercot

@neophyteone712 3 года назад

@@dh1335 I made a vid how the trinity evolved. Onwards and upwards

@alexlarsen6413 3 года назад

The guy is absolutely amazing!! I literally watched it all in one go, although it did take me about 4 hours with minor pauses. I started watching at around midnight and now it's 4am here in Greece where I'm on vacation...this being my last day, in a few hours I'm flying back home to Denmark. Btw, being here in Greece and listening to this, I can't help but think how much Greeks influenced us all; through politics, culture, philosophy and even the damn religion. It's not just Zeus, Apollo, Aphrodite...and other indoeuropean gods the equivalents of whom we have in norse mythology too...but they literally invented christianity as well.

@elmonixon4392 Год назад

I've listened to Dr. mason on first generation more than twice, all three hours. It's better and better every time. Please get more of Dr Mason.

@roddychristodoulou9111 3 года назад

I am now a proud atheist , but as a former orthodox Christian I can tell you that the early Christian took many years to become mainstream . One of the reasons they achieved this was to offer free food at the end of the liturgy , now given that there was a lot of poverty then it took hold like wildfire , not for the faith but for the free food .

@user-sw5bq3ek8q 3 года назад

there was no liturgy at those times. There was only the custom of every day feeding the pure. The holy mass was invited to avoid to feeding the pure every day.

@beastshawnee 2 года назад

Lol. Every time I do an organizational meeting of any kind I do free food. Even if people aren’t poor -they will come out for the food! Try having a meeting without it...crickets...

@mogbaba 2 года назад

It's so cool to feel you are in the school again, at the age of 59, thank you.

@PabloAlvestegui 3 года назад

Fascinating!!! I can't wait for the next installment.

@adamnascent7231 3 года назад

Can't believe I missed this one until now! Derek, you're right, this is your best episode so far! Amazing insight into the very beginnings of Christianity. Can't wait to watch part 2 with Dr Mason.

@johnmollish7301 10 месяцев назад

Best I’ve seen so far. Many thanks.

@jhake67 3 года назад

best historian of EARLY JESUS MOVEMENT i ever heard..

@neophyteone712 3 года назад

Agreed! By far the most coherent and plausible model

@Diverse_Interests Год назад

Steve Mason, you are one of the most enjoyable scholars to listen to. Thank you!

@MarthaEllen88 9 месяцев назад

Am just 18mins in and already just a great introduction. You can already tell this is gold. First time I've heard from this academic.. always so great to find a new person you enjoy listening to!

@core_english 3 года назад

Thank you so much for bringing this kind of scholarship "to the people" ...it's a good work you do, sir.

@marktwain5232 3 года назад

I am coming on two months late in catching up with this extremely useful presentation. Absolutely wonderful! I just got three of Dr. Mason's books for further deep study of the delineation of the first three generations of "Christianity". When you add the preexisting Zoroastrian Cosmology mindset framework context and the preexisting Gnostic Cosmology mindsets in 2nd Temple Judaism, it all becomes "C.G. Jung meets Plutarch meets Pliny the Elder" amid the thinkers of Alexandria, Egypt somewhere around 33 A.D. From those collections of Minds and Souls a 2,000 year Civilization arose for both good and evil. It is very important to analyse these thoughts in light of the current events in our time. Thank you Derek and Dr. Mason! This was one of the most seminal presentations so far among many on Myth Vision. First rate work Gentlemen! Very much appreciated!

@elmonixon4392 3 года назад

I could listen to Dr Mason all day long

@scholarvid1842 3 года назад

This show was absolute gold. And that teaser about Mark from Dr. Mason at the end has left some people salivating already. If you ever come to Europe think about organizing a meetup. It would be great to hang out with all the mythvisionairies out there. 🙂

@ndagi50 2 года назад

Yes it was. Can't wait to listen to the second generation🙏🏽

@NoName-fc3xe 3 года назад

14 members of the Westboro Baptist church disliked this video.

@davidburroughs2244 3 года назад

Over the week, the last four members have chimed in, too

@michaelb.2413 3 года назад

🤣🤪😂😅🤣

@ncarmstron 3 года назад

I’m shocked!

@bugsplat2755 3 года назад

...and that's counting twice...

@scottsmith2235 3 года назад

That figures….

@777Atum 3 года назад

This is one of the best interviews. This is my fourth time listening to it.

@GaryFerrao 3 года назад

Dr Steve Mason, please don't apologise for the length of your presentation!~ lol

@michaelb.2413 3 года назад

💯

@pekde Год назад

Well how much do you remember of that afterwards?

@GaryFerrao Год назад

@@pekde Well, even after two years, almost all of it.

@jeanine219 3 года назад

Happy Birthday!! Love your podcasts.

@mr.blackculture8111 3 года назад

Always interesting topics. Happy Earth Day.

@ljohn5261 Год назад

What a fantastic discussion! Dr Mason smashed it. He should be invited to do Bible studies at Churches. Derek you are a star for organising and facilitating such discussions. Good job bro. I haven't had a chance to join any of your live broadcasts, hopefully soon.

@mdug7224 3 года назад

Another diamond presentation. Thanks.

@richardbradley1532 3 года назад

The message is simple, the cost? Cash.

@atheistechoes9594 3 года назад

And lets not forget death

@BrianNeil 3 года назад

Happy birthday Derek!

@glendalill722 3 года назад

This was an excellent discussion. Thank you both very much, but I now have a very soft for Dr. Steve - "that's how the light gets in" Leonard Cohen.

@michaelhenry1763 3 года назад

Canadians

@mthokozisilanga4497 2 года назад

I can’t get enough of this presentation. Dr. Mason is great. Thanks Derek.

@mthokozisilanga4497 3 года назад

Thanks Derek, Dr Mason is brilliantly so cool. He is one of my favourite scholars.

@RomanPhilosopher Год назад

This is my 3rd time watching this lecture. Thank you so much for this content Derek!

@tumblebugspace 2 года назад

Engaging presentation. Thanks to both of you gentlemen for making it so!

@flipflop6525 3 года назад

I want to see Dr.Mason and Dr. Price debate the authenticity of Paul's letters! Make it happen, Derek!

@jakeoutrider7644 2 года назад

yes!!!

@blaccseedthechildoflife431 3 года назад

Show was A1💪 Appreciate Derek and his guest Dr Mason!

@mthokozisilanga4497 2 года назад

Dr Steve Mason has killed it. I mean this is the second time I am watching this presentation. Oh my! This is the best ever argument for a historic Jesus of Nazareth, by default.

@bakeneko5343 3 года назад

Amazing work.

@kawahxue8332 3 года назад

I LOVE THIS EPISODE ,and i really appreciate DR.mason .

@anthonym2499 3 года назад

lol, when i was a child i thought as a child; now that im older i just dont give a shit :) i can never remember my ages in life, but i must have been around 8 to 10 years old. we were baptist or pentacostal then ... me and my trailer park friends were sitting outside on a beautiful day, the clouds were positioned such that the rays of sunshine where piercing thru them - absolutely gorgeous day. I could have sworn that was the day that Jesus was going to coming back. Its nice to remember those days, fills me with joy that i used to be so innocent in my thoughts. My 2yo grand kid fills me with the same joy, watching her destroy the place just trying to figure things out in her little world before the weight of years crushes her spirit :')

@Ditka-89 3 года назад

“Me and my trailer park friends” lmao. I like your irreverent attitude. Good to you for finding peace ✌️

@scienceexplains302 2 года назад

I wonder how 9 year old Anthony M would have responded to the point, “The sun may he shining beautifully on you and your life, but elsewhere children are starving to death.”

@anthonym2499 2 года назад

@@scienceexplains302 ... lucky bastards?

@scienceexplains302 2 года назад

@@anthonym2499 ? How woulda starving children be lucky?

@anthonym2499 2 года назад

@@scienceexplains302 At least they had Sally Struthers advocating for them ... 9 year old me wasnt a philosopher, he was a survivor :/ The reason I can recall that moment in the sun is because I had some hope that something better was on its way. There is a reason why I have few, but precious, happy moments that I cling to. What other children were or were not doing was none of my concern. If death was upon them, then they were the lucky bastards.

@donrayjay 3 года назад

Great interaction and fascinating information, congratulations all round

@thinkingaboutreligion2645 Год назад

Keep coming back to this to immerse myself in this amazing piece of history. Falling asleep to this, when I can't sleep, or just chilling.

@RomanPhilosopher 2 года назад

best episode of mythvision is right! Please more like this one.

@guyandabible 2 месяца назад

I could listen to this man all day long

@rogerbeck3560 2 года назад

Very informative and enjoyed. Derek you got to have Dr. Mason on more. Truly learned alot. Thanks

@tavuzzipust7887 3 года назад

Another informative session with Steve Mason !

@grazielaferraz 2 года назад

This was amazing, thank you to Dr. Mason and Derek !! 🙏

@keithsmith3678 2 года назад

Dr. Mason is excellent as always, so clear and thorough. I agree with Derek, the best episode!

@jrsanga174 2 года назад

The most delightful presentation ever among scholars. May God bless Dr Steve Mason.

@Rupunzelsawake 3 года назад

Paul said some follow Apollos, some follow him, etc, and reminded his readers that it was Christ who died for them, not himself or anyone else, and therefore Christ is the one to follow. He seemed to me to be encouraging a "meeting of the minds"...which I presumed to mean each compromising their particular viewpoints to agree on some commonality for the sake of peace and unity... However that it clearly not what he meant because he goes on to insist that they "become imitators" of him and accuses those who preach a different message (not his particular "announcement") as preachers of a different Christ or gospel.....and as suggested here, possibly referring to such "superfine apostles", who preached differently, as dogs. So really he was in effect saying lets put aside our differences so long as you follow me! Any one else is accursed! That verse that Steve ended on about "Come let us reason together..." was read to me by elders at my jw judicial meeting. But they weren't interested in hearing my reasoning. It was "let's put aside our differences so long as you agree with the governing body"! Lol. Paul: How to be a cult leader 101.

@eviewilde354 3 года назад

Yes, if you're familiar with the typical 'cult leader grift', the way they talk & operate, & you read Paul's (authentic) letters through that lens, you can really see the 'grifting' & manipulative double-speak, & the circular logic he uses to bamboozle people's minds.

@Rupunzelsawake 3 года назад

@@eviewilde354 Thanks for that! I'm new to all of this but loving every minute of it.

@willempasterkamp862 3 года назад

@@eviewilde354 The movement starts with Paul a roman autoritarian official, his sons are useless rebels, only his grandson is 'succesfull' long after he the initiator had past away. After the departure of Jesus Roman popes begin to claim the religious leadership.

@Val.Kyrie. 8 месяцев назад

Sounds like what Fr Jenkins (sspv) said recently in a talk. That all traditional Catholics need to be working together and put aside differences… then goes on a tear against every other trad group and how wrong and bad they are. It’s the same thing: let’s all set aside our differences and reason together by you doing what I say.

@borneternallordallah1472 3 года назад

GLORIOUS BORN DAY CELEBRATION

@scienceexplains302 3 года назад

Paul wrote a few things that struck me as indicating he thought the wrath (1 Thessalonians 1:9) was near … such as his preference for celibacy. That was not a tenable “practice” for a religion to spread over time.

@219belizeman 3 года назад

Excellent interview on the diversity within early Jesus-movement.

@j.christie2594 2 года назад

And, the Present, chri$tain. is Even more DIVIDED!

@richardbradley1532 3 года назад

The Paul stuff is absolutely fascinating

@mouthpiece200 3 года назад

Except that Paul is Josephus.

@richardbradley1532 3 года назад

@@mouthpiece200 what makes you say that?

@mouthpiece200 3 года назад

@@richardbradley1532 Because there are a long list of connections in their lives, too many to be coincidence. Both shipwrecked on the same island about the same time, both Jews born in Jerusalem, both had police power to arrest their religious enemies, both traveled all about, both were writers, both knew the same guy Epaphroditus, both had an arrogant personality, both had a dramatic change of sides after a "vision". Etc... Josephus is also who Joseph of Arimathea is based on. "Arimathea" is simply a play on his father's name. No such city existed. Josephus claims to have taken three men down off crosses, but only one survived.

@richardbradley1532 3 года назад

@@mouthpiece200 wasn't he born later though?

@mouthpiece200 3 года назад

@@richardbradley1532 Paul's age is never given. It is true that Josephus/Paul would have gotten an early start in life, but it is perfectly normal for missionaries to start young. I myself went on a mission trip at 18, and in their culture he would have been considered a man at 13. Going around doing missionary work in his mid teens with an older mentor is completely plausible.

@Nexus-ub4hs 10 месяцев назад

Steve rocks as always. So knowledgeable, mature, professional, thoughtful and compassionate.

@atheistechoes9594 3 года назад

Paul the Ray Comfort if the ancient world

@myoneblackfriend3151 3 года назад

Derek is turning 33 and Dr. Mason is being interviewed! Hidden meaning: Derek is a 33rd degree Free Mason. Then again, maybe not.

@jeremywvarietyofviewpoints3104 3 года назад

And I'm watching it for Free.

@beastshawnee 3 года назад

LOL. good catch! haha...

@sharonmcdougall2417 3 года назад

Yeap

@rickc777 3 года назад

An insomniac at 6AM, finding this discussion interesting, and having been familiar with Steve Mason's work (Josephus, Essenes, etc.), I must get some sleep at the halfway mark ... one comment: in 1 Thess 4, we can correctly presume that deceased Christians would be raised from the dead and go to heaven. However, Paul ends with "and so we will ever be with the Lord." My point is: Paul doesn't specify that living believers would go up to heaven -- "we" (the living and the dead) will be with the Lord. This brief passage is filled with apocalyptic imagery in summary form (it is not an exhaustive didactic passage). Apocalyptic language tells of real historical events in highly symbolic images. To correctly interpret such passages, we have to keep these things in mind. So Paul was reassuring that those who knew deceased believers need not worry, that they, too, will be with the Lord when he returns. When he returns where? In or by his spiritual presence on earth, as it is in heaven. If living believers flew up to heaven when Christ's presence was made manifest -- (I speak as a fool) -- we wouldn't have ever heard of Paul, leave alone Jesus. I find it odd and perplexing that fundamentalist (and conservative) Christians agree with liberal scholars (and/or historical critics) that the so-called 'rapture' is literal. That is, that at the 'rapture', living people fly right up into the sky. Totally baffles me. One side says it hasn't happened [literally] yet. The other side says Paul (and Jesus) were mistaken because it didn't happen [literally] soon. Two sides, same coin. At any rate, while I may not agree with everything said, I'm fascinated with biblical history and history in general. First time I've heard Steve Mason speak! Awesome. Thanks for reading.

@nephkiller 3 года назад

Lol. Before the start of the final questions.... at the end of Steve's dissertation you said OMG.

@fatosdour2518 3 года назад

Great content!

@GENESIS-3 3 года назад

I, myself (for about seven years ago), draw the conclusion: Paul may have been close to the alternative message to none-Jews, but he blew it - with his “announcement”.

@beslanintruder2077 2 года назад

Could you explain?

@sillybanks33 3 года назад

Man this show was great!!!!!

@mikeq5807 2 года назад

Thank you host and guests! I highly recommend you interview RALPH ELLIS. Awesome information he divulges!

@raycosmic9019 Год назад

"When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. That is my religion". - Abraham Lincoln -

@bloopyscoopy3141 Год назад

Thanks!

@ronb9258 3 года назад

Paul sounds a lot like the Evangelical 'prophets' of today, who continue to predict the immanent return of Jesus and always find ways to wiggle out of their failures. He did have some nice things to say about love, though.

@atheistechoes9594 3 года назад

They could never admit when their wrong

@rdorleans6522 3 года назад

He was gay and full of self hate.

@Ditka-89 3 года назад

@@rdorleans6522 Paul was gay?

@Ditka-89 3 года назад

@@rdorleans6522 gonna need some evidence for that

@rdorleans6522 3 года назад

@@Ditka-89 Have you read anything he supposedly wrote? Sounds like a self hating person to me... gay and can't accept it.

@aliataie101 2 года назад

This was great but your question, Derek, at 1:42 was brilliant regarding the Crucifixion. I would love to get a response to that.

@mugglescakesniffer3943 Год назад

This is a great lecture man I will have to watch it again and again to get it all.

@joykelley8671 Год назад

Just finished watching and found this extraordinary! Thank you both for an excellent session.

@carmeladicen5157 3 года назад

Best i ever heard

@denishartley3828 2 года назад

I learned more in 3 hours about the bible, that 30 years growing up in Jehovah's witnesses cult, where they just repeat and repeat kindergarten nonsense by comparison. Fantastic video.

@pekde Год назад

Leave that society. They are dead people. Just ask Jesus to lead your way.

@JasperElvenSky 2 года назад

You're going from strength to strength, Derek my friend! Another fine episode!

@suelingsusu1339 3 года назад

Good episode...👌👌👌👌👏👏👏👏🙏🙏🙏🙏💕💕💕💕

@GENESIS-3 3 года назад

Excellent exposition on Paul, I cannot agree more!

@freezerburn421 Год назад

Loved this discussion!! I’ve always been curious how scholars distinguished between Paul’s original letters and the forgeries. Fascinating!!!

@eximusic 3 года назад

So Derek asks where these congregations were meeting (synagogue, etc.) and Steve answers with what Paul did for a living. Did I miss something? I also want to know where these new non-Hebrew Christians were meeting. And what's the precedent for not just epistles or letters (yes, I know there were epistles in Egypt and other places), but letters to specifically religious congregations back in that day? Did they have an address? If not why wasn't it addressed to the local leader by name? We take the existence of churches for granted today, but in the Gentile world back then how did these practices (outside of pagan temples) come about?

@davidburroughs2244 3 года назад

I, being less then knowledgeable on the specifics, can only guess they met in homes, tents, the local parks ands later in buildings built to specific purposes and purposes changed as some buildings would normally come available. Honestly, specifically I can only speak of some of the few places mentioned, such as some one's own home.

@eximusic 3 года назад

@@davidburroughs2244 My questioning is more around whether they made this up out of the blue or whether there were already precedents for these types of congregations from other religions in the surrounding areas. It seems unlikely to me that Christians not only invented a new religion, but also invented all new ways the religion could meet and communicate. Is the epistle unique to Christianity? no. But were there leaders from other religions using this method for instruction before the 1st century AD/CE? Or was this a genre of religious fiction?

@bludfyre 3 года назад

Like David, I am not an expert. However, from what I can remember, worshipping a god in your home was common in the pagan world. There were special areas designated for the gods where prayers and offerings to the statues of the gods were given. As far as epistles, it is possible that this was standard, but these probably came about because of the special circumstances of Paul moving around so much because he had a habit of upsetting the local religious authorities. He was probably like certain politicians in the US of the last 15 years: you either love or loathe them due to their personality and what they are talking about/what they look like.

@eximusic 3 года назад

@@bludfyre Yes, my wife's family is Buddhist/Catholic from Vietnam and also practice a form of ancestor worship with a little shrine in the home with relatives pictures and small offerings of food and burning incense to them. But I'm really looking for the precedent for "congregations" outside of the temples of established religions in the 1st century. And a precedent for Paul's position and practice of epistle writing to congregations. Some of the false Pauline epistles are just pure doctrine. Was this a practice? Or was this created later to fabricate a church history?

@bludfyre 3 года назад

@@eximusic I understand now. Unfortunately, I have nothing to offer. I would like to know this now, too!

@robertosharpe5995 2 года назад

I've now watched this twice..at least...Please invite this gentleman again...Thank you so much.

@1feloniouspunk 2 года назад

Thank you for your awesome channel! I don't agree with or understand everything but great to see the wealth of guests and perspectives on religion.

@jennyjones4279 2 года назад

Absolutely brilliant episode, thanks Derek and Steve

@GaryFerrao 3 года назад

I've really wanted a contemporary description of Paul's letters. Your previous talks alluded to certain enmity happening between Paul and Cephas, and since then my curosity was fired. Steve Mason has a really good presentation, especially that animation of Paul's Announcement haha. He seemed nervous at first, but then got too engrossed to bother. It's a really nice description of what Paul was doing. Now i want to read Cephas/Peter's letters lol (sadly they don't exist?) Which got me thinking: if Paul wasn't travelling about he would probably be a local preacher like Peter in Rome (Peter being in Rome according to the story in this video), and then not written letters to people all over. Also got me thinking: the Catholic Church claims to be founded by Peter, but with this new information, they don't actually follow/know Peter's teachings, but his enemy Paul's? lol

@pansepot1490 3 года назад

In the video it’s mentioned that Peter went to Rome “according to tradition”. Afaik all stories about Peter going to Rome and being crucified there are all later Christian traditions that historians can’t verify.

@dustincurlee1239 Год назад

What a fantastic interview. Rational, academic, scholarly explanations for the lunacy and contradictory messages within Paul's theology juxtaposed to the various other Apostles mixed theologies.

@AriusOfAlexandria 3 года назад

Thanks Steve and Derek, Another fascinating and highly informative educational presentation. Insight into how much detailed work goes in to even establishing the original text. I am glad that Steve continually and relentlessly returns to the notions discussed in the earlier "Historian's Workshop" series. "The point is to test hypotheses for their explanatory power. // That's what we do in history. // We have to see how it explains the evidence". Great diagram BTW Steve. My notes FWIW: 15:50 Myth = Story Mythvision the vision of stories not the necessarily the vision of mythicists. Wider net. Great distinction. STEVE: The point is to test hypotheses for their explanatory power. That's what we do in history. We have to see how it explains the evidence. PAUL 17:40 "These letters could be fabrications" 18:20 "Tons of forged letters in the ancient world" 19:00 II Thessalonians 2:2 warns about getting fooled by forgeries of this letter. Most scholars think that this is a forged letter. 19:55 Acts of Paul and Thecla - classed as another Pauline forgery. 20:15 We dont dismiss anything out of hand. Abundance of forgeries in ancient world. [with these caveats the "working hypothesis" hereafter is that the 7 "genuine Pauline letters" are in fact genuine] %%%%%%%%% 20:30 Paul is CITED by Clement, Ignatians. 22:00 Romans letter first because it is the longest - arranged by size descending 49:40 Strange History of eungelion common view - "good news", shared by Christian not found before Christian texts "The Announcement" 53:00 EUANGELION 60/76 NT occurences in Paul, 6/76 in Mark Adjectival form common = Hermes Euangelos (faithful messenger of Zues et al gods) /// 2:04:00 We are seeing lots of "one half of the conversation" 2:05:00 Group in Rome not established by Paul. 2:17:00 on ....Galations 1:6-9 - "I repeat - If anyone proclaims to you an announcement contrary to what you have received, let him be cursed." 2:29:00 Summary: First Generation of Christians Paul letters as a window into 1st Gen Letters look like half of conversation in realtime. How to best explain all these controversies 2:58:00 -- Acts ("WE" references suggesting eye witness) is trying to domesticate Paul - make him harmless" Historians use this rehetoric as well 3:00:19 Derek "I am a one man army" ------ time, resources Peter and the Catholic tradition Paul depends on the Greek LXX translation 3:09:52 People posturing and saying "read the history" are essentially not in the historians' workshop. STEVE: The point is to test hypotheses for their explanatory power. That's what we do in history. We have to see how it explains the evidence.

@tedclemens4093 6 месяцев назад

P.S. I love your "selling of indulgences" with the $5 "super chat." (Not a criticism, just a parallel)

@JohnHoulgate 5 месяцев назад

Paul's argument "Because Jesus told me" could have been easily refuted, by saying, "That's funny, I spoke to the risen Jesus, too, and he told me something different." Paul really took advantage of the honesty of the Jewish Christians to bully his ideas through.

@thomashugus5686 2 года назад

Dr Mason great job!!!!!

@DedicatedCitizen 3 года назад

Great insights!

@buzzpollard986 2 года назад

Doc Mason, u r the man!

@SpiderDiscord 3 года назад

Great video!

@vinegar10able 2 года назад

I'm bookmarking this video. What an interesting scholar Dr Mason is! Amazing research

@ghostriders_1 3 года назад

It's a curious thing that historians can acknowledge that Paul is not interested in Jesus's earthly life but cannot come up with a believable reason why!

@ardalla535 3 года назад

Yes. They have all kinds of reasons, none of them believable.

@Trwanddon 2 года назад

One of the best explanations. Thank you!

@avajoyporter9064 Год назад

Best Ever. Thanks, I learned so much, Thank you

@timothymulholland7905 2 года назад

What a fine scholar! Congratulations for bringing him to us!

@seventhgeneration77 3 года назад

Awesome video 👍

@MrJD-tz3dv Год назад

This was very good. Thx D

@brianeibisch6025 Год назад

This is a great video. Many in the various denominations of Christianity, not being able to see outside their particular type of Christianity, believe in a mono-lithic faith, because, they assume everyone else is doing the same as them? But as one who has gone from the Protestant situation to the Orthodox position, it is interesting to me that Christianity has had different “flavours” from the very beginning. The development of Modern Christianity over the last two thousand years, also bears testimony of an evolving Christianity other than a static position. I’m sure if modern Christians took a Systematic Theology back in time to these first/second generation Christians, they would be totally incredulous as to the sophistication of our modern ideas.

@PauldeSwardt 3 года назад

Surely the pinnicle of what the internet can be - the sharing of knowledge - In this case a masterclass on St.Paul.

@scienceexplains302 3 года назад

Dr Mason, to play Devil’s advocate, if I want to forge history, I need to write half a conversation as of most people believe what I want to subtly convince people of and make pleas that fit into that time? Some or all of the NT authors were trained in Greek literature. Could some be trying to make their points in the way I describe above? (Seriously, tho, you’re making a good point.)

@martenjustrell446 3 года назад

There is a butt load of forgery's among historic letters and the best ones is trying to look like an authentic one. Discrediting people by writing in their name or changing history by making up fake letters to support a narrative. People where not stupid back then

@scienceexplains302 3 года назад

@@martenjustrell446 I don’t understand what you’re trying to say. Try shorter sentences

@martenjustrell446 3 года назад

@@scienceexplains302 Ok. You are right. History is full of forged letters. People where not stupid in the past. They knew how to fake stuff properly, even letters that seems to be personal.

@scienceexplains302 3 года назад

@@martenjustrell446 Thank you. That is very clear

@MrArdytube 2 года назад

A superb video. There are many fascinating topics that are raised. One issue is that it seems clear that there are different evangelists with competing ideas. These divergences are discussed in the narrowly illuminated teachings of Paul. But there is no reason there might not be an abundance of other less documented ideas that struggled to gain dominance. Ultimately, what has survived as “gospel” reflects the people whose ideas triumphed in this battle of theological attrition. But, there is no necessary reason that the ideas which dominated inherently best correspond to Jesus original teachings. And, imo, these battles for dogmatic dominance almost certainly had a profound selective impact on shaping the narrative before it was eventually committed to writing. I think the “copies of copies of copies” issue is almost inconsequential compared to stew of competing ideas that almost certainly typified the early church before the gospels began to establish an orthodoxy

@GodwardPodcast 3 года назад

54:30 if Luke didn't approve of Paul's gospel, why did he write Acts 9 to confirm Paul's authority?

@markwmyers9113 Год назад

Absolutely amazing video

@justinshadrach829 2 года назад

These are critiques I like to hear (whether I agree with all/bits or not) it is important to hear a number of perspectives that you can always learn from still.

@tonymiller3788 10 месяцев назад

The more I learn about Paul, the more I am leaning to the fact that he was a total charlatan, like a modern psychic helpline, preying on people's gulliblilities for profit and power. He just keeps changing his story long enough to keep his victims hooked.