Honestly my issue with the film was always that it felt like a rehash of Mask of the Phantasm. A new vigilante with a seemingly personal vendetta is hunting mobsters in Gotham and making Batman look bad, and it turns out to be a woman he cares about on a personal crusade. It felt too similar to Mask for my taste, not bad by any means, but very familiar.
@jackofallclaws6672 Except the film has a slightly more happy ending unlike Mask. Maybe if you all took off-the Nostalgia glasses and just appreciate the fucking film on its own and not name comparisons the film would not be underappreciated and overlooked. Seriously wtf is with you people and Nostalgia. Stop running back 2 the past and learn to appreciate the present
@@zemox2534 Literally neither of us were doing that. I was just agreeing with him because he made a point that I haven’t really heard about in discussions about the film (however rarely I’ve seen any to begin with). Nether of us even said that the movie was bad. This isn’t even remotely a “take off the Nostalgia-Goggles” post. Saying that a movie in a franchise didn’t interest you because you felt like it was rehashing plot beats from a previous flick and didn’t execute them as well as said other film…is a perfectly reasonable reason why you might not like it on the same level as other entries in the series.
I think one big problem is that we're just told about the Batwomen's tragedies and not shown. Like we see Andrea walking into her house with her dead father, it would have been more impactful if we saw flashbacks of Penguin framing Kevin or Katy's mom dying.
For some reason, “Chase Me” has always been one of my favorite pieces of DCAU media. The music, the visuals, the story. It feels right out of a Batman comic issue, and also reminds me of a similer issue of Batman where Catwoman does make Bruce chase her across the city as a twisted form of “date night”
I love this movie, I own it on Bluray, and as you said it should be counted. I have never understood the hate for the film, and even more so I don't get why nobody talks about it. The change of the voice cast in certain roles definitely shouldn't be a reason because throughout the series itself, numerous roles were recast for numerous reasons. Scarecrow, Batgirl, and even Alfred. Overall its an underrated gem, and I always enjoy watching it.
@@JoshuaKevinPerry honestly, it's kinda impressive that he can vanish so quickly when people need him, but not able to pull out Well, his vanishing skills probably helped him evade the child support
I'd wager that the marketing was minimal for this film as well. I grew up a huge fan of the DCAU, watching everything I could (minus Zeta Project), and this film didn't hit my radar until several years later here on RU-vid after rewatching the Batman Beyond movie
I actually grew up with this film. I had it on vhs until it mysteriously disapeared one day. But the thing was that I had another vhs with an ad for mystery of the batwoman that I used to watch a lot. So it was like it was taunting me with what I used to have. I later managed to get a dvd double feature with the movie at a swapmeet.
This very underrated. Sort of swan song of animated series if you erase batman and harley quinn from existence. Worth it for big finale with Batman & Bane at the end. Also nice twist with Batwoman.
The funny thing, my first exposure to the DCAU was the four movies that were on Netflix in the earlier days of the service. So I associate the new Penguin and Bane voices more with those designs. I honestly found it jarring watching the new adventures and hearing Paul Williams voice from that design. I was more use to that voice coming from the Returns based design and he doesn’t really have too many significant parts in the new adventure episodes.
I was caught by surprise just before the end of the video when you wished MOTB a happy anniversary, perceiving 2023 as the year when both MOTP celebrates its 30th anniversary on Christmas Day and SubZero passed the 25-year mark. I had totally forgotten about MOTB. Thank you for the video in that regard.
I could never forget this movie - mainly because I have this one issue of Scooby-Doo that contained three ads for it, and the next four issues also had ads (though reduced to one per issue). It amazes me that they were still advertising it four months removed from it's release. Jokes and oddities aside, it's a decent film.
I liked the film, even if the new voices for Penguin and Bane caught me by surprise. It was also one of the few times I heard KMR voice. He would go on to voice the dad of Static Shock, and he gave a great performance. I think Chase Me was slightly stronger but Mystery of the Batwoman is still a fun film.
Having forgotten this even existed and not getting to watch it years ago, really appreciate the summary and detail. For those who haven't seen it, it may feel like bonus content to The New Adventures as that is what it feels like to me.
Haven't seen this before so had to skip the spoiler portion of the video. But I just noticed as I listened to your analysis how much your videos have improved over the past few months. Keep up the great work!
It’s interesting to learn that David Ogden Stiers was cast over Paul Williams out of a desire to make the character more threatening. I think Williams could go pretty threatening when the situation called for it. The film is fine but think I’d enjoy it a little more if he hadn’t been recast.
Yeah, Paul Williams is pretty threatening as Swam in Phantom of the Paradise. I think they just didn't know his strengths. Bit of a misguided call there.
I *adored* this movie growing up, and it still holds a soft spot in my heart. It was one of the first films of the dcau I had seen, and i was ASTOUNDED by the plot twist. Tbh I kinda wish they had kept the "theres actually THREE Batwomen" thing can you imagine the POTENTIAL! And the PRACTICALITY! "Hey Kathy, Roxie broke her leg last week, and I know you're recovering from that cold still, so I'll go on patrol, can I borrow your suit? Mines still getting repaired from that fight with Killer Croc" is SO CONVENIENT! Ill go back to my ao3 "what could have been" fics...
I'm glad you covered this movie. While it's not among of my favorites, I enjoyed it and have watched it more than once. I had picked up the DVD years ago, and after hearing your comment regarding the Blu-ray I plan to rewatch the higher resolution version on Max and pay more attention to the different mixes of animation (traditional vs. digital). I agree with your sentiment about the hand drawn animation having a certain charm that digital lacks, though I appreciate both styles. While voice acting was strong, music was probably the weakest part for me. It definitely was lacking compared to BTAS and other productions where Shirley Walker and others contributed, more so since this was a movie as opposed to a 22 minute episode.
Wait a second. 3 people from different walks of life come together to orchestrate a plan in order to take out several individuals who personally wronged them in the past…all while wearing a two-color full body costume that has a built-in voice modifier that helps mask their true identities. Is it just me or does that not kinda sound like the origin of Ghostface from the Scream Franchise? Not all of them, but I’d say a good chunk of em. I’ll admit; it’s not a perfect 1 to 1 comparison, but it’s also weird how much that actually makes a small amount of sense.
I actually loved this film, and I do find it a little underrated, this was also the movie that made me consider Penguin Batman's runner-up villain behind Joker, and here's a little fact This movie takes place in the year 2006 apparently, after the events of Batman and Harley Quinn (which actually takes place in the year 2003) and near the end of Justice League Unlimited, and before the Tim Drake flashback scene which takes place in the year 2007 And a little thing about Barbara being in college, The New Batman Adventures text place in the year 1999 with the ending New Year's segment of Holiday Knights taking place within the first hour of the year 2000, Batgirl was actually 23 during The New Batman Adventures (Subzero text place in 1997, and Barbara's age was revealed to be 20 during the movie), and since Mystery of the Batwoman takes place in the year 2006, Barbara would have to be 29, so she's back in college at the age of 29? But overall, I do like this movie, it's my third favorite DCAU movie, behind Return of the Joker and Mask of the Phantasm But it does think some people don't like this movie, some say it's even worse than Batman and Harley Quinn
Actually, a computer screen in the movie itself says that it's set on 2003, while the admittedly more apocryphal BaHQ may be set on 2004. Heck, there are even implications that MotB is set after the events of Justice League's "Maid of Honor", since the gunrunners are doing errands for Kaznian radicals, who just lost a lot of their arsenal during the events of that two-parter.
The DCAU exists on a floating timeline, so I don't think it's a good idea to try to bring actual dates into it. Just know that: 1. BTAS starts during the 10th year of Batman's career. 2. Robin mentions in "Robin's Reckoning" that it's been 9 years since his parents were killed. 3. TNBA is said to take place 2 years after BTAS (though accounts differ whether this means 2 years since the beginning or since the end, in which case it happens 2-4 years after BTAS) As for Barbara, it is possible that she's a graduate student at college by the time of Mystery of the Batwoman.
@@Blokewood3 1 - Hmm, when does the "tenth year" part originate? 3 - Preferably after the end of B: TAS. 4 - Or perhaps she took college again so to get another nice diploma, in preparation for her becoming future GCPD Commissioner.
This is probably the DCAU project I have the most attachment to. I remember whenever I was in hospital (which happened to me a lot as a kid) I would this movie watch again and again.
Glad you brought up the color palette. I remember the skin tones in this movie bugging me right off the bat (no pun intended). The characters with darker complexions almost look grey… even greenish compared to their surroundings. It was weird considering the crew handled people of color well in Batman Beyond and Justice League after they went digital.
This was for me my first introduction to the DCAU 😅mainly becuase I was huge the Batman (2004) fan and missed the Btas at the time. I enjoyed it as kid as one off Batman thing given I was hyperfixated on all Batman stuff. But as introduction to my favorite BTAs very weird 😂 one looking back
To offer my two cents, I've seen some other commenters say that this movie feels like a retread of Mask of the Phantasm, and yeah...I can certainly agree that this is a major reason why this movie, though competently made, comes off as rather limp compared to most other entries in the DCAU, and given that it came after BTAS, The New Adventures AND Batman Beyond, it doesn't really offer anything truly new or intriguing to the table, especially in regards to the characterization of the three Batwomen. Speaking of them, while the idea of three different people working together and using the same costumed person is a decent idea on paper, and could be utilized well in a TV series or a comic book series, in a 90 min movie, it just doesn't have much time to flourish and leads to another problem with the movie. The big selling point of this movie is Batwoman, but there really isn't a "Batwoman" character in this, as in a singular character we come to care about, wearing a costume that's intrinsically linked to their character. Instead, it's relegated to a mere disguise worn by Sonya, Kathy, and Rocky, no different really than the ski masks worn by the average crook in Gotham, just a means to hide their identity and nothing more complex or interesting. This is the opposite of the titular character in Mask of the Phantasm, where although there is a twist with the Phantasm, the Phantasm IS Andrea Beaumont, and the costume is linked to her tragic character arc. DCAU's "Batwoman", on the other hand, is more akin to the "Mandarin" in Iron Man 3; not being a real character but rather just a facade/plot device.
So there was an issue with my account and I won't be able to use for a few hours and so I wanted to write my thoughts on Mystery of the Batwoman here. The animation is mostly great and the returning voice actors are always a treat to see and most of the recasts do a really good job although I'm not fond of Eli Marienthal as Tim Drake. One thing that does bother me about the animation though is that the background have a weird texture on them that is throughout the entire film. Overall, my biggest gripe with a film is that it doesn't feel like it should be a film. You don't ever feel particularly emotionally invested in what's going on and Batman doesn't feel like a central character despite his name being on the title. While it's very hard to compare anything to Mask of the Phantasm and Return of the Joker, still something that should be true for every film is that the central character should be essential to the plot which is one of the issues of Batman & Mr. Freeze: SubZero which could easily have been been called Robin and Mr. Freeze: SubZero and while the flood doesn't entirely come together with that film, Freeze's story still feels prevalent and intriguing albeit not entirely though out. In general the film just feels like decent and fun episode with an extended runtime.
I remember not particularly caring for this when I first saw it on DVD, roughly 20 years ago. I went back and watched it again more recently (about a year or two ago on HBO MAX) and liked it a great deal more. I think you hit the nail on the head-it's not what people were expecting from _animated series Batman_ at the time and consequently came off as offbeat and lackluster, but viewed more objectively, outside that bubble, it holds up very well, even if it isn't the best of what _animated Batman_ had to offer. I certainly think it's a lot more rewatchable than most of the one-off DC animated films of the past 10 or so years.
For those older fans wanting to remember when animators used to be generous in their drawing of the female anatomy, try this..... Timestamp 0:21 - 0:24, played at 0.25x speed. You're welcome...😂❤
I was huge into btas back then and between this and subzero i do not remember any advertising for either until i saw a cardboard standing at my local vidoe rental and found out the fact that this movie had been made a year prior. Now i was in high school and was wrestling and playing football and all but still. I was a btas junkie. I literally recorded 4 hrs of Saturday morning cartoons to catch the new episodes cuz i had a wrestling tournament.
Well I think it’s because that these DCAU Batman movies don’t feel connected and that they feel like a random episode like Subzero would have been a 2 or 3 parter because it’s plot is really thin and this is just like a random episode where there is a lot of filler, like say that Scooby Doo on zombie,Witch’s ghost,Alien Invaders and Cyber Chase what do have that connects them? So forgot to mention Batman the Brave and the Bold series where there was a Batwoman in a episode As I said before I think that this Penguin has so much untapped potential which I have a lot of ideas especially for the Justice league and Batman Beyond like I did say that he could a leader of a Injustice league that it would take place after Lex’s pardon and Grodd in jail after the Secret Society and that this Injustice league is more dangerous than ever since Penguin and his team are being guided by theses individuals to be their surrogates of sort and they find out the league’s secret identities and for Batman Beyond he would be dying so he put his mind in Terry’s body and I would call the episode (that is a 2 parter) the Wrong Terry as a parody of Wallace and Grommet the wrong trousers, also I prefer Paul Williams voice because he is what I think Penguin should sound like and he sounds like Mr Burns from the Simpsons if he was a couple of times removed cousin. You think that they should have brought in Mr Wing as the only reason Bane is here because he is just for someone to fight Batman? I guess you know about that thing with Bruce and Barbara right? Do you like to ask who would be in Penguin’s new Injustice league?
I remember watching this years ago and I think I found it to be rather underwhelming and I never gave it a second viewing but maybe I'll pick it up again when I'm looking for something to watch. Also, holy hell this came out twenty years ago? It still feels fairly recent but so does a lot of the stuff from the early 2000thds for me. I have to constantly remind myself it was two decades ago now.
Ikr? And instead of creating an oc that because of questionable reasons and for the sake of the plot was given everything that belonged to Kate, they could've done one of these three characters as the replacement.
I know that this is a very common criticism but having seen this movie back in the day after I saw Batman Beyond the scene where Bruce talks to Barbara is put in perspective and somewhat hindes the enjoyment of this film. I am also not a fan of Thorn. He always get arrested only to be free in the next episode!
Eh, I liked it enough. In hindsight it would've worked as a finale for BTAS in general, if there would be no Batman Beyond (not counting the rest of the DCAU). We have Thorne, Penguin and Bane put behind bars and Bruce finding a healthy relationship with someone to spend his life with. Then it also would work with the similraities to Phantasm in mind: this time he got her and he won't let her go.
I honestly think that part of the reason why this film isn’t as memorable or as fond as say Mask of the Phantasm or Subzero. Is the music score by Lolita Ritmanis. Firstly, this films budget is much lower and that means they couldn’t even afford a decent orchestra so they used an artificial synthesized orchestra recording. Secondly, Ritmanis is no Shirley Walker. I know she has done some great themes and works in BTAS and Justice League, but Shirley Walker she is not. Even Michael Mccuiston score for Subzero is criminally underrated and is a way better score than Mystery Of The Batwoman. Thirdly, the themes/motifs are strongly lacking and the saxophone theme is actually annoying. I understand that they wanted to do a somewhat of a noir theme, but it’s pretentious and played very annoyingly throughout the film. If the score was anywhere near the level of Mask of the Phantasm or Subzero it would have been a lot more memorable and would have cause more praise.
I only have this movie on DVD because I randomly stumbled upon it at a second-hand store about 2 years ago and knew I'd never get a better chance to buy it. I'd known OF it for more than 2 decades thanks to a caption on the back of my family's VHS copy of Return of the Joker, the caption listing several other BTAS movies, MotBW among them, but never found it during its original distribution period. Funnily enough, it was thanks to having known about Kate Kane's Batwoman first thanks to the CW and Batman Bad Blood, I was NOT Spoiled on Batwoman's identity until it was actually revealed. Thanks to Kate Kane, I suspected Kathy Ducane right away due to the similarities of their names until she and Batwoman were in the same scene at Penguin's club, and Rocky thanks to the metal, only to scrap that when Batman confirmed she'd been at work. I did then think maybe Sonya, but kept second guessing myself thanks to the previous 2 guessing seemingly being wrong. So, I was fooled until the reveal and didn't feel cheated for it. Ironic that already knowing about the current Batwoman is what foiled my ability to figure it out😂😅. I'm guessing the Batman and Catwoman short was an American DVD thing only, as my region 4 copy doesn't have ANY special features, just the movie, scene selection and audio/subtitle options. Little peeved, knowing that
Forgoten, Man i watched that movie at least 40 times when i was Younger together with The First DCU justice legue movie and Batman beyonde The return of The Joker.
You basically said it yourself: This movie is mostly forgotten due to how it wasn't released until after BTAS, TNBA, and even Batman Beyond had finished airing. I wouldn't have even known it existed until many years later had I not managed to catch the second half airing on Cartoon Network (I think) at one point in the mid-'00s.
I was unaware that people disliked this movie or considered it non-canon. I liked it just much as Subzero, which I had no strong feelings about one way or the other. (Batman and Harley Quinn, on the other hand, 🤮 was terrible and I don't consider that one canon, and I know I'm not alone. I know Bruce Timm was involved with this one, but I don't know what happened.) Maybe people thinking it was non-canon was a result of that Superman: Brainiac Attacks movie that came out a few years later? That one looked like Superman: TAS, but wasn't considered canon, and some characters had different voices and some didn't. So maybe people assumed this movie, since it was released around the same time and also had some different voices, also wasn't canon. I never even noticed the "clash in styles" with the reuse of BTAS backgrounds. We'd already had The Joker's design reverted to be closer to BTAS, so I don't know why this in particular would de-canonize it. One thing I didn't like was when the movie grinds to a halt to promote some singer that nobody's ever heard of, who has her own bonus feature on the DVD. It draws my attention away from the movie and instead I am picturing executives in a room ordering the writers to work this singer into the movie because WB publishes her music or something. "OK, sir, we'll have her song in the background of Penguin's lounge." "No she has to BE IN THE MOVIE! Maybe she could be one of the Batwomen!" And then they compromise and have the movie focus on some random singer for no story reason. I also thought that thing the girl that looks like Halle Berry kept saying was annoying. ("Twa-la" or something.)
I remember watching all three BTAS films back to back and did enjoy this one, but certainly was the weakest of three. It is still a good film, but likely appears lacking due to similarities with Mask, which did it better.
The problem is...the other Batman movies and even crossovers that proceeded this were so amazing that this one, while a good movie, was just "a good movie." I liked it. Yet it faces stiff competition with the other Batman IP which was award winning.
The Batwoman suits are made of an advanced alloy that is both durable and as flexible as fabric. I think the Beyond suit is actually made of the same stuff, so there is a connection. Maybe they were trying to make a quick explanation of just what the Beyond suit is even made of, given that it appears to be made of fabric, but is inlaid with enough technology to qualify it as an outright powered armour suit. Hell, Terry got his head kicked through a wall at one point and he shrugged it off. The flex-alloy was pitched to Wayne Enterprises, after all, so Bruce would have easy access to the stuff for his own usage later. God, I wish this had been animated like the previous Batman outings had been. This Justice League era digital stuff just doesn't hold up too well. At least Gotham's distinct architectural style came back through the reused backgrounds, but the digitally animated assets do not upscale well at all, with lots of jaggy lines where there once were pencil strokes, and the colours are just... bland, and very flat. This blandness stands out especially when contrasted with the grainy texturing of the old BTAS backgrounds.
I remember when I first got this on dvd right off the shelf another amazing Batman movie I grew up with the Batman 2004 series but the OG animated and new adventure series will always have a place in my heart along with Batman subzero and mask of the phantasm this movie honestly hits SO hard from the story to the soundtrack not to mention the interactive bonus features just perfect in my book honorable mention to all the original actors who may or may not be with us anymore but still the cast for the film did an amazing job and wished I could see another awesome Batman feature film before all the DCAU films happy 20th anniversary to Batman mystery of the batwoman
I had completely forgotten that I got a batman animated movie 3 pack a few years ago on DVD, and this movie was 1 of them. I still haven't watched batman Mystery of the batwoman as of yet.
I honestly like this movie. And the implications that Bruce took inspiration from Batwoman's costume for his future one is neat. And I like the idea of more than one Batwoman with a grudge. Though, I dislike the fact that Bruce kissed someone while he was dating Barbara (even if their relationship was not to everyone's liking). But all in all the movie was pretty good.
I haven't seen the movie in quite a while, but I thought that Barbara was in love with Bruce the feelings were not reciprocated, which obviously changed later on, as referenced in Batman Beyond.
Now hold your horses pal, Bruce was NOT in a relationship with Barbra, she one sidedly came onto him & he avoided the subject, The movie was good tho true, & the implication that the beyond suit was inspiered by the batwoman suit is neat
I consider it as canon. They should have had "Batwoman" appear in something else, but then comes the quiestion "which woman do we use?" You make a great point with Sub-Zero also not having Bruce Timm involved and it's canon. On the voice recast, Superman has had 3 voice actors in the DCAU so that being a reason to ditch it doesn't work. It fit I believe into canon nicely. It's not like Brainiac Attacks which is CLEARLY a different timeline.
@@kidanarchy2105 do know that the suit is made out of the metal alloy Rocky developed which also explained why all they look the same in-costume, the suit mimics gives them a singular body-type and it also explains why it's silver and how the mask mimic their facial expressions
I remember when this came out, and for whatever reason I didn’t care to watch it because I felt it was somehow too late to the party. Justice League was currently in full swing, so in my mind the solo adventures of Batman had come to a close with Batman Beyond, and I didn’t care to see a Batwoman included retroactively. In hindsight I now actually enjoy the story because of how nearly it fits into the margins. They managed to create a unique version of the character that felt like a believable one off event in the timeline, unrestrained by the blueprint of the comics. I wish Dini’s take on Red Hood could do the same.
really weird thing is I owned most DCAU films on VHS, for some odd reason I could never find them on DVD as a kid. Nevertheless I loved this film, in my head I saw it as a split personality batwoman
This is my fave one. It’s much more slice of life romcom. The songs are catchy, animation is lovely. And it rlly was a mystery, I got it wrong first time watching.
This movie was my first introduction to Batwoman as a character as the Kate Cain version wouldn't be put in movies until (what it felt like) a decade later. This was how I viewed the superhero until I learned about Kate Cain. With that said, the reason why I don't think about this movie when speaking about animated stuff is because I don't find it memorable. Both Deep freeze and the phantasm both bring emotions to existing characters that made me feel something for them as they are characters, I am familiar with from watching the episodes. Mystery of the Batwoman doesn't do that. It attempts to with giving each woman some sort of sad backstory, but it feels really superficial for me. Like they are really trying to make us care about characters that we have never seen before. The movie also doesn't have me thinking after the movie is over. It doesn't give you a reason to think. It is a one and done kind of deal with a very simplistic plot from beginning to end. Does that make the movie bad? No. However, you aren't going to be watching the movie for the same reasons you will be watching a movie like Phantasm.
I would have to disagree on the soundtrack portion of ur video, the soundtrack sits very fondly in my head I will attribute it to nostalgia a bit but none the less an amazing soundtrack imo, great video
Really interesting overview of this lesser regarded movie. I always put it on par with the Halle Berry Catwoman movie, a panned movie that i wish would get another chance, so I appreciate this more fair review of it. Even if the stories wound up the same, if they had abit more sauce, i could see them on par with atleast the justice league animated movies, which are still good fun
Darn, if only I caught up with this film during my slow DCAU binge lately before watching this. Oh, well. It may still feel like filler, has controversial casting choices, and includes frelling overt Bruce x Barbara, but gods, does it still feel like it's truly part of the DCAU compared to Batman and Harley Quinn and, in contrast to The Adventures Continue comics, nicely foreshadows the advancements of Batman Beyond. And I won't lie, at least this take of the Batwoman feels less on-the-bloody-nose compared to some adaptations of the Kate Kane iterations nowadays.
