Adam, I often play and can be silly in your comment section, but I want you to know how grateful I am for you, your channel, and all the things you are documenting that have been largely ignored for decades. Thank you.
@@RareClassicCars “Carpenter” here.. I’ll second this. There’s sooooo much car content out in RU-vid world. Most of it makes me cringe at how long it takes to hammer a car back to life during a “barn find”. An hour and a half? Test light on the points, file if necessary or replace.. fill the floats from a squirt bottle with a healthy shot down the throat, and send it. I digress. Nobody else is getting into this nuance, on cars that were once everyday, but are now largely forgotten. So, Adam thanks for bringing us strange, unique, and even quirky knowledge that nobody else does.
I had a 2005 GTO w/a 6 speed manual. It was a lot of fun, relatively cheap and had a more smooth, organic look than other Pontiacs from that era. There were several in my area, all different colors.
I think it was a good idea, but it already looked 10yrs. old when released. Bland and Sunfire looking. But then again, Pontiac and GM was trying to stay afloat by then.
I grew up coveting 4th gen F-bodies. I miss when sports cars were sleek/contemporary not just retro boomer nostalgia. Now because the Camaro goes on "hiatus" every decade it has to "look like a Camaro" when it comes back again. 🤦♂
The 99 is the newest(ugliest) generation of Camaros...! The 88 looks like a fourth generation F-body except for the greenhouse... It looks like an Eagle Talon/Eclipse/ Plymouth...! Anyone remember the Plymouth version of the first Eclipse...? What was its name...?!
Another informative video…thanks Adam. The Yellow concept GTO looks a lot like the Plymouth Laser/Eagle Talon. A lot of the design cues are similar to the F bodies that were produced.
Yes! That similarity with the abominations of soapboxes being LH! Brrrrrrrr... The ugly car craze was on it's all time highest. Aztek and Renault Logan look funny and interesting beside them...
@@harlequintheserpent7016 Still think the LH cars and other "soapbox" cars of the 90s were a huge improvements over the dull, slab sided bricks that we had been getting for the past 15 years out of Detroit.
@@melvinharris7859 Sure bricks were boring as heck and as anemic as asphyxiated snakes, but, at least, you could fit in them right being over 5' tall and they had some actual suspension travel and ground clearance so that your ride wasn't constantly followed with those belly rubs and bumpstop slams. Also, putting the steering rack on a shelf below the windshield was just a brilliant idea, serviceability... is none. And Toyota amongst the others had come up with a similar design... Brilliant, let's just copy each other's engineering blunders untill all the cars end up... Wait, we're already there.
@@harlequintheserpent7016 None of the stuff you brought up is exclusive to or started with round cars. The majority of the vehicles produced during the 1980s fit all of those descriptors. Take the General Motors X, A, J, and C-Body cars of the 1980s. Or take your pick from any Asian import of the time. Or the extremely successful and mass produced Chrysler K-Cars. All square designs. All with steering racks mounted behind the motor, low ground clearance, and limited suspension travel. Auto makers sold millions of these cars. Additionally, cars didn't get any more cramped inside when the round era of design came around, if anything it was the opposite, if you actually took the time to look at some interior measurement figures for various cars of the two eras. Take for example, a 1985 Chevrolet Cavalier, and a 1995 Chevrolet Cavalier. Two common mass produced GM vehicles of the eras. Both on the J-Body platform. One with square styling and one with rounded, aerodynamic styling. For the '95, we have 39" of front headroom, and 42.3" of front legroom. As well as 54.9" of front shoulder room. For the '85, we have 38.6" of front headroom, 42.2" of front legroom, and 53.7" of front shoulder room. The '95 is larger inside in every dimension. You'll find the more cars you look at, that this holds true for the vast majority of vehicles produced. It sounds to me like your issue is less so with round cars, and moreso with FWD cars, since all the stuff you listed is just stuff that most FWD cars suffer from, regardless of when they were made or what the exterior styling looks like. Both the two major RWD old-school cars of the square-car era continued to be produced into the 1990s with updated aerodynamic bodywork, all while gaining increased interior space and retaining the same long-travel suspension and the same ground clearance as older models. And a front-steer design. But I suppose I wasn't expecting much from the guy who is arguing in favor of square malaise era cars.
@@melvinharris7859 Sure as heck, that has more to do with the FWD layout than with the outer shell design. My bad for not putting the point, that malaise era boxes I was comparing LHs with were all RWD. Especially my favourites - the Panther platform, which, being born in malaise era, happily lived out of it to become a bit less anemic and be the last classic body-on-frame sedans in existence. Exception from the FWD rule I've encountered were the Toronados and the Rivieras, in them you seem to have all the space you want - and some extra. Gutless, characterless due to FWD, but, at least, your eyes didn't reside right in front of the windshield frame and the visor, like in Corvettes and T-birds.
Thank you for another interesting, well-presented video. In the late 1980s I worked for a promotion company that did on-site displays for various GM makes. One day in the warehouse I spotted a Grand Am coupe that had been modified with a deep dual grille front end and the letters GTO in one of the openings. It had the twin-cam four-cylinder and a 5-speed and was fully operational (it could be driven from the trailer to the display setup.) I was told that it had been a prototype but was now likely headed to the crusher. This was before cellphone cameras so all I have is the memory of spotting that unknown GTO / Grand Am.
I think that yellow GTO concept looks excellent: It's graceful, being without the misproportioned high trunk that so many other cars use to be aerodynamic. And the yellow with black are refreshingly different. The front 3/4 view reminds me a bit of the 1995-99 Riviera.
Absolutely, it looks a lot like a Riviera for sure. Even the trim on the rear bumper is near identical. I wonder if they were planning on using the same chassis, since they were already using it on the Oldsmobile Aurora as well.
A nice looking concept, but I doubt there was (or ever will be) a market hungry for a front wheel drive GTO. The '99 GTO concept looks like it morphed into the production '07 Camaro. Thanks Adam, great content as always!😁
this concept has a dodge stealth look to it that's what jumped out at me about it. The radius in the upper door is very distinctive like you pointed out, once people found out the 2004 GTO was a imported Australian design with Pontiac cosmetics it lost it's credibility with purists who had the money to afford it I would think. I remember in 1980's Pontiac did a SD4 powered Grand Am engineering exercise thought to possibly be the 1987 GTO. obviously it didn't come to fruition certainly because of the front wheel drive aspect it also being a 4 cyl. didn't help either. It made 300hp If I remember correctly.
I never understood the “loss of credibility” because it was a rebadged Monaro. So what? GM actually sold the Monaro under the Chevrolet badge in the Middle East for awhile. It’s a rear drive LS-powered coupe. Does it really matter that it was an Aussie design?
I think it’s a great looking car for that time, but I think that traditionalists would have fell over and got up screaming “what a disgrace” and knowing GM of the time, top engine probably would have been a 2.8. It’s probably best that they had not produced this car and called it a GTO. They could have produced it and called it something else I’m sure it would have done extremely well.
The first GTO concept look more muscular and aggressive. The second one look a bit too sleek and low slung so they probably use that design on the latest Firebird or Trans Am. The first one possibly used that on the latest Camaro.
I had an '05 GTO, and that car was fun as hell! Total sleeper. Most folks thought it was a GrandAm, and didn't attract a lot of attention from the police. Wish I woulda kept it...
Adam - suggestion for a video: the creation of the Grand Ville. I read somewhere that it was an interesting amalgam of parts from both B and C bodies. Great result, and I'd love to know more about how they created this big handsome beast that still managed to look downright sporty next to the other big C bodies of its day. Keep up the good work!
Thank you Adam. This video was quite interesting. I do not recall this concept or design proposal. I liked the information. I thank you for sharing the early 1970's GTO that failed. I liked that you mentioned the Holden based GTO and mentioning how it came from Holden and how it was introduced. The enthusiasts like the 2004-2006 GTO now. There are a bunch of You Tube videos for that car. This video was quite good.
When I worked at the Pontiac/olds/Cadillac dealer in 99-01, we had a customer who rebadged a supercharged 3800 powered Grand Prix as a gto. Those were in my opinion one of tge best looking, driving and handling cars that gm has made since the muscle car era
Adam, to let you know just how spoiled you’ve made me with these quality productions, I find myself hugely disappointed if I find you haven’t uploaded a new one…EVERY day! Thanks for that…I guess!😜
I love this GTO from the 80s. I think they should've put it out because people would've really liked it at that time. It is a beautiful car. I'd drive that now
Ahoy Adam! I've never seen this concept! I really enjoy the "optimistic future" designs of the 80s, and the first car this one reminded me of was the super sleek, Saturn SC1 coupe. Always thought they were cool, kinda small, but offered great looks of a Firebird-type car for guys with a tight budget on a 7/8ths scale. Never was able to own one, but admired them, and their later innovative 3rd "half door" to make access to the rear easier. Saturn deserves a series I think, made some real innovations when GM could still afford to experiment, and I was sad to seem them go away before I was able to join the "cult" of Saturn that Gm created, with its annual customer picnics, unique dealership structure, etc. I really thought GM was reinventing both the car and sales experience, and I think, it was in fact better! If Saturn had been allowed to grow and mature like Kia, Hyundai have, imagine what great cars they would be building today. Thanks again for your rare photos and info and thoughtful insights!
Thanks for the educational video! Not aware of this car until now. I think they could've tried to sell this car to an audience that was tired of low horsepower cars/ This was about the time that higher performance Mustangs were becoming very popular, so there was a market. I do like the styling.
Video request please. I would like to know what your most favorite GM production automobile ever is and also the one GM production automobile that you have no love for whatsoever. Honestly I'd like if you did it for cars, trucks, and vans separately, but I dont want to ask too much of anyone.
Adam another extremely interesting segment! I like the concept car, but, what about making it more of a mid-engine design and carry more of the sheet metal to create the rear window area shape? You remember the the exploding glass problem on the Camaros? This glass shape is an accident waiting to happen……
Thanks, Adam, for introducing us all to a GTO I for one at least had never heard of. Interesting that it probably could have made the show car circuit but Pontiac did not choose that for this design study. The "Talon" comment from Canadian Guy is certainly right and also a bit of the Saturn Coupe, but in general the upper very much reminds of the upcoming 4th-Gen F-bodies, specifically Camaro's all-tinted-appearing canopy, with a bit of the Firebird's non-Trans Am nose. Regarding the side-sculpturing, I've always thought that employing that lower-center coke-bottle-emphasizing sculpture on the production Firebird -- taken almost directly from the purple 1992 Corvette Stingray III concept, btw -- really added some surface excitement to that car, and I love looking at mine, even with the ten feet of front overhang that the Corvette concept avoids completely. Interesting that you can always tell a RWD car from FWD, even when the F-bodies design moved a bit cab-forward.
Yes ----- I am replying to my own comment but I cannot stop saying it! Stingray III, Stingray III, Stingray III: the concept that could have and should have guided BOTH the Corvette and Camaro design programs into gorgeous and affordable genuine sports/GT cars!
Adam - I tend to agree with you that this likely would have bombed in the sales department....what's interesting to my eye is this 1988 concept gives the feel of what became the 1993 F-Body cars, the angular openings in the front, corner wrap around taillights, outside rear view mirror cut....also the 1999 concept, which I do remember seeing, sems to push some of the the most recent Camaro re-introduction what about a dozen years ago, especially in that rear quarter panel and the angular appearance on the front of the car.
Interesting video, thank you! A few corrections though. The red 64 at the beginning isn’t a GTO, it’s a LeMans. Also DeLorean was chief engineer when the GTO launched. It was later that he became general manager.
5:15 Interesting that the 1988 GTO prototype was left-hand drive but the wiper setup was for a right-hand drive vehicle (at least as far as conventional wiper designs go - sweeping towards the driver).
From an exterior design standpoint, this GTO concept looks awesome, and if they stayed reasonably close to this concept it would have been a tempting buy. The FWD platform is a bit disappointing, but throw a supercharged Buick 3800 V6 under the hood and that pretty much cures any disappointment
You can't change the past but imagine if modern day Buick and Cadillac started making their own versions of the Corvette and Camaro. This would be cool, and it would give luxury car brands a run for their money. This would also put a spin on the new mid-engine Corvette and possibly turn potential Ferrari and Lambo buyers.
If the GTO was a package for the Tempest, why not a package for the Firebird? I know, I know , it wouldn’t be the same, but that car was the last rear wheel drive platform, so repackaging it wouldn’t be a problem…. The only other car that could get a GTO package would be the Grand Prix, and maybe with some tweaking it might worked….. But it’s too late since Pontiac is no more.
It should have been a package for the Grand Prix, in my opinion. Why make yet another option for the Firebird when you have the base, Formula and Trans-Am? Another option would have been to make it a package for the G6 coupe and convertible, which are both nice looking cars in my opinion. (The sedan not so much.) It's sad the G6 coupe was downgraded so much from its initial concept that had a supercharged 3.5 V6 pushing 285 hp and 272 ft lb torque.
I like the orange concept, but I'm on record as liking my 2005 Dodge Dakota that also had some boogie to it. I agree with everyone getting Stealth/3000, Eclipse/Talon and 4th-gen F-body vibes from the yellow concept. If they'd produced the yellow car it'd probably have been on my list of possibilities for my first new-ish and not-a-hand-me-down car in ~1998.
I think if that concept GTO was produced - and GM committed to it - Pontiac would’ve alienated classic GTO fans but they could’ve possibly brought new people to the brand. It’s definitely a risk that I understand why it wasn’t taken. On another note, the 2004 GTO looks like a watered-down evolution of this concept. I’m imagining an alternative reality where we had curvaceous GTOs from the late ‘80s until the mid 2000s; then a total redesign to fall in line with the retro-craze that was underway at the time. 😌
I loved Pontiac as a kid and well into my teens. But I don't lament the discontinuation of the brand. Too much damage was done in the last 2 decades of Pontiac's existence. Let's remember and celebrate the good times. That GTO proposal was handsome but would have been too close to the Firebird in theme.
It would have been a much better car had it been a rear wheel drive with optional manual trans and V8 power. That might have made it a winner in sales.
The 1988 GTO concept looks more like a Firebird, but the FWD drivetrain would instantly have turned off the very enthusiasts for whom the car was intended.
I liked the '99 GTO concept. If they designed the GTO similar to the '99 concept they would have sold a ton. That would have the badest car to own in '99.😎
I'm trying to remember where I saw the yellow GTO concept to which there was a Monte Carlo and ElCamino concept styled very similarly. I have pictures of them from the 1989? NAIAS. I always believed the lines on the yellow GTO here being less aggressive lines of the Banshee, influenced the final gen Firebird. Also took pictures of the orange GTO at the NAIAS and PghAutoShow. I thought the orange GTO was, ugly. The wheels made it to the Chevy Beretta Z24 & UTZ. Production? Yes, worthy to be a Firebird.👍🏾🇺🇸🏁
I commented something similar. To me, it looks like a cross between a Saturn SC coupe, catfish Camaro, Sunfire (in the rear with the same spoiler design) and a bit of Subaru SVX (the window design, that is).
*the Ford Probe was originally going to be the 'Mustang II' and reviving that cars namesake from the late 70s and sold alongside the 'Mustang', not replacing the Fox body mustang
To me they missed the boat not sticking with a slightly smaller sporty car to compete with celica, 240sx, dodge stealth, talon, eclipse size and style. I think thats what was wrong with the last camaro in that it was just too big, tall, heavy looking. This yellow car really reminds me of an eclipse, and some features made it to production, such as the beretta wheels, mid 90s firebird fascia. Great video as always. Sure miss cars that had some style and theme, instead of the chunky blob stying of 90 percent of current crossovers. Oh and color too!!! Labelling it GTO would have been big mistake. Why always look backwards for inspiration, more forward would be better. True gto would be a grand am with supercharged 3800
If they could have built this, I'd have bought it, if they named it something else. GM at the time was completely incapable of getting as close to their concept cars as Chrysler was. A good example would be how the '93 Monte Carlo concept became the '96 production Monte Carlo. It had a few design elements of the concept, like the full width panel for the tail lights, but it was heavily watered down. If they did that to this concept, and sold it as a GTO, it would have been a travesty and to many, a heresy. GM at the time count not have built this exact car if their lives depended on it. I had forgotten about this, thanks for bringing it to me light again.
So was the thinking that this GTO would replace the two-door Grand Am when that model was upsized in 1992, a la Beretta/Corsica? Or was it thought to stand apart as something sportier-yet or just differently styled than the Grand Am GT? Or were they still considering holding the Grand Am to its smaller size in the next gen? Or was this just a styling diversion, or trial balloon to gauge the future utility of the GTO name?
Might have been worthy of production if they didn’t call it the GTO. I seem to remember seeing in High Performance Pontiac I think where they showed a rendition of a late 80s Grand Am and called it a GTO. But I can’t remember if it was something official from Pontiac or if it was just something someone drew up.
