What an awesome concept. Can’t wait to see how it all plays out. For every advantage comes a downside, High pressure fuel system, total loss battery system that’s strapped to the fuel tank, having to wait more than four seconds to throttle after restarting if you have a motor out 🤔 Lots of things to consider. For me, simpler is better. But I love that Vittorazi is exploring the boundaries.
Great perspective; considering the pros and the cons. Like you, I really appreciate the pursuit of innovation on what seemed to be a stagnant design. This is exciting, and I hope that we, as consumers, afford the patience needed to refine (if necessary) this technological advancement.
@@AnthonyVella Also, comparing fuel injection in small 2 stroke engines to the fuel injection in a modern car isn't great. Cars have way more sensors with better computers that are doing a lot more to make the engine run optimally. And, throttle body injection is a really old technology that mostly went away decades ago. EFI motorcycles, boat motors, etc. don't get nearly the same boost in performance and reliability with fuel injection that cars do. EFI is great, but expectations for it should be a lot lower in a 2 stroke paramotor engine that still uses mixed gas than in a modern Toyota.
Absolutely! I think that’s what as resulted in a couple of the motor outs that I’ve experienced; I flew too high and the engine quit on the glide down.
Thank you! It’s been a while. Haha. I had to borrow my sister’s camera film it since mine crapped out on me. Looking to purchase a new one soon so that I can make videos more consistently. Thank you again! 😁
Love it. Why not. That’s how my Indian Scout motorcycle starts. And it’s 6 yrs old now. Alway starts and runs well. Makes perfect sense to me. Keep punching holes.
What I know from repairing EFI chainsaws and cutoff saws is they're great and have plenty of response and power when you need it. When you start having issues... lol have fun.
@@AnthonyVella It has to be done through software but they usually adjust themselves according to what the motor is wanting. However, besides the usual stuff that can go bad like coils, spark plugs, fuel pumps and filters, etc. There are pressure, temp and rpm sensors and stuff like the CPU and wire harness that can go bad and can be a pain to diagnose without throwing parts at it. Especially when you can't get them started to help in the diagnoses.
Man, Anthony, part me with my money! I want one of these haha. What an upgrade! Awesome flying (and shorts!) Thanks for sharing this adventure and review!
Interesting observation. I should smash one in on landing and see if anything happens. I really don’t think anything would happen. There appears to be a strong case around the battery. Kinda like Tesla, it’s reinforcements encasing the battery prevents explosions.
You can't really beat a simple carb set up as if it goes wrong you can at least repair it on the feild if you have carb issue woth that once that breaks you know you down for a good couple of weeks
Watching a video and then dropping a dislike is like getting a meal from someone and telling them it sucked. They should’ve choked. Lol Jk. I just thought it’d be funny.
I love this. I hate carbs. It's why I don't have a six-pack. Hey - one weird observation I had: Why are the brake lines for that Luna in FRONT of the risers?? 9:49 Again, another awesome video Anthony! And your shorts aren't too short at all.
Thank you. I wish everyone know how much better life is when it’s lived in booty shorts. And the brakes are connected to the back. It just looks like they’re in the frond because of how my hands are out in front (instead of off to the side and behind). 😅
I think that it’ll take some time to refine this design. They might already be tinkering with alternatives to get the weight down and flight time up. You ought to do digging to see what you can come up with. Then sell the idea to them if it’s a good one. 🤷♂️ Do keep in mind that others have tried, but none succeed in becoming a commodity amongst us. It’ll take some real ingenuity. But you might strike gold! …sorry. I was reading the biography on Elon Musk. I don’t imagine I have the technological or mechanical skills to create anything significant, but still, it’s a great read. 😂
Any idea how easy this engine is to service? One of the (few) advantages of traditional 2 stroke carburated engines is that they are stupidly simple. Anyone with minimal knowledge can repair/service them.
As usual, Wait and see in a year how reliable it truly is. Does this cost more? I'm guessing it does. I have over 400 hours on my Moster. I'm thinking when it's done I'm done. It's been a real blast flying like a bird in the sky! The stuff dreams are made of! Life is good!
Good video! Oh I'm cracking up! 5:26 cameraman zooms in on shorts! I would enjoy better fuel economy, but I think the difference in fuel economy would have a very long break-even point compared the the added expense of this system. System is heavier, more complex, reliant on a battery. On a cross-country race like Icarus, pilot would need a second battery since it only lasts about 5 hours, unless Vittorazi adds a charging stator. I've never had a complaint about my conventional carb response on the Moster 185.
I thought you might like that! Haha. As for the rest of your comment, I know some people (like you) don’t feel frustrated with tuning the carb. It’s not my cup of tea. So to me, it’s worth it. But that’s because I’m a few fries short of a happy meal.
That’s the best summary of why I’d want this engine; It starts without question. It stinks standing in the heat while pulling over and over again. I’ve seen different pilots curse and give up. I think this addition to the paramotor was long overdue.
I love it. It seems overdue but I feel like there's a compromise with having to use a battery that's separately charged. I'm not exactly sure there's a problem but there's something about that which makes me uneasy. However EFI is an aspect that makes me significantly more comfortable with reliability regarding things like spark plug fouling and just keeping excessive engine wear or damage from occurring due to fueling running outside the ideal range. Increased fuel efficiency is very desirable. My interest in paramotor engines is as a reapplication to ultralight and sportlight aircraft so my needs are different. It could easily be possible to fly longer than the battery runs and the natural landing safety without power is very different.
I really enjoyed it! I’ve flown the Luna 2 is multiple sizes. This was, by far, the smallest Luna 2 that I’ve flown. Regardless of the size, I’ve found them to be very fast. That said, it feels like a safer-than-usual design since it doesn’t seem to carry quite as much energy in the swinging. Although it can barrel roll, it won’t do it as easily as other gliders in this category. Hence, it feels safer to me.
Can't wait for this to be more common place.. 5hrs is a little short for battery life for a lot of our flying, but im sure will improve. Glad they incorporated a feature like Scout's safestart option.
@@AnthonyVella Hopefully they programmed it correctly.. I know on the early versions of safestart once you had low battery it would kill your motor.. Learned that with 3 low engine outs in Salton this year...
Injection was on snow scooters 40 years ago 🤣, here they talk about it like it just landed on earth. Reliability about 2 strokes injection is a curse😉🤐. Good enough for playing stunts above the air site but it will take a very long way to use it in XC.
Perhaps! Either way, it’s better to see an advancement than none at all. Ideally, we’ll get a 4-stroke with a respectable power to weight ratio to accompany the EFI. For now, their too heavy.
No, wrong, 250cc, liquid cooled, electronic injection, been around for a few years now, best known example is “scrappy” but I saw a few being flown in Arizona in March at the meeting there.
What if you have an engine out, you're sinking and need power NOW? That 4 second "safety feature" suddenly isn't a feature you want. Is there going to be a way to disable that in flight??
You could just repurpose a Honda scooter engine. Honda started transitioning from carburetors to fuel injection in their scooter lineup around the mid-2000s. However, the specific timing of the switch varied depending on the scooter model and the market they were targeting. Some earlier models might still have used carburetors until the late 2000s or early 2010s. you can find scooters with fuel-injected two-stroke engines, fuel-injected four-stroke engines, as well as carbureted versions of both types. The use of fuel injection is more common in four-stroke engines, but some manufacturers, like Honda, have also implemented it in certain two-stroke models to meet emission standards and improve performance. They can be had used for a couple thousand bucks, and the parts are very cheap. Not that you'll need them, as long as Honda is the only Chinese-made scooter that you buy.
Leandra and I were just talking about you and Lisa! We wished we’d gotten even more opportunities to hang out. The Luna 2 is fast! But it feels really safe! Call or text me. I’ll tell you all about it.
EFI has been around a while now in dirt bikes. Most manufacturers have gone away from throttle body injection systems like this one. I think Husqvarna still makes one though. Most people like them, but they have their own set of problems too. I'm guessing that it's going to be a stupid expensive motor with ridiculously priced parts though.
I'd like to agree and expand on what wednesdaykartingflyingclub8164 said yesterday. Yes, a fully electronic fuel injection system is nice but watch out if you ever have a battery, computer, ignition or spark box failure. It's like I've maintained for years about cars, a carburetor might start running crappy but it will never totally let you down on the side of the road like a failure with an EFI system, much less up in the air! 'Come to think of it, I can't recall a paramotor pilot ever complaining about his engine running sour when running up above the clouds? You can't get any simpler than a standard, 2-stroke engine with a carburetor and a magneto.
Awesome/valuable insight from someone who sounds educated in the subject. My non-mechanically minded opinion is that I sincerely want something that’ll just start up and go. Admittedly, I’ve struggled a handful of times with the carb as the density altitude changes throughout the year. And I think that it’s unrealistic for the sport to grow if the expectation is that all participants should be mechanics. I totally understand your perspective, and would never suggest that you’re wrong; You sound like you know what you’re talking about. But how do we make it so that people can fly something where all you really need is the ability to safely fly? I think the answer is the have a motor that simply works, even if it means the motor itself isn’t simple. My dad always tells me how new cars suck because they’re a pain to work on. But some people do not want to learn to become a mechanic just to drive a car. Still, he swears by the reliability of an old truck that’ll run forever. But there is clearly a lot of seemingly effortless wrench turning to get it to “forever”. You’re not wrong. But I think advancements are a good thing. And old tech is a good thing as well.
A 2 stroke will. Not only do you have issues with rfi just leaning out suddenly and melting a hole in your piston. With carburetors and the evil that is ethanol. You have the high likelihood of the fuel jellitonizing and clogging up your jets. If it sits more than a month. Ethanol also turns rubber into hard plastic. So all the rubber parts inside your carburetor will be shot if it sits longer than a month with fuel in it. You also have the added issue that ethanol is hydroscopic. So it attracts water.
Absolutely! I’ve experience numerous motor outs. This EFI is constantly providing the engine with the perfect fuel:air mixture. That was the cause of the majority of my motor outs.
No. Rfi or direct injection has zero bearing on engine life. Reliability? Nah it's much worse with rfi. I'm a mechanic I do this for a living. Rfi is far less reliable and far more expensive to fix
8lbs heavier, significantly more expensive, “safe start” feature can’t be turned off while in flight if you have a motor out and need instant power, and it relies on a charged battery to maintain spark? I appreciate the enhancements and I’m sure it will get there some day but I’ll sit this round out 😂.
I’m like you! I want to know the cost, though I don’t think it will discourage me from wanting it. And I really hope that we do not here back from a significant number of early adopter that there are serious issues. I don’t think there will be, but I’m not certain. I’d be more interested in what warranty they will offer.
If you have a motor out it is unlikely that you will get a restart in under 4 seconds with any motor. There was a reason that it quit, and motors don't tend to cure themselves very quickly. So when you have a motor out, the thing that you do instantly is sort out the details of your landing. If you have plenty of time and altitude, then try for a restart.
The atom 80 is awesome. A little underpowered for me, but great nonetheless. If you decide to take this route (EFI), you could sell the Atom 80 for a great price to go towards the new engine.
@@AnthonyVella Most bigger 2 stroke motors these days don't require mixing oil with the gas. They have an oil tank and an oil injector pump (e.g. most 2 stroke motorcycles). That also allows them to use better fuel injection system like TPI. However, that oil injection system would be even more weight and complexity.
Reading these comments are hilarious. Vito can spend 50 million pushing their EFI motors. At the end of the day, 90% of pilots fly far too little for EFI to be justified. Then add on the fact you can't work on any part of this fuel system yourself and its a done deal. A polini 202 makes power 18% more efficiently than a moster 185. .163 hp per cc on the polini 202. .135 hp per cc on the vittorazi. Polini is made better. Tighter tolerances. Polini runs far smoother, runs cooler, power comes in more linear. I rip a 202 everyday the weather permits and will continue to do so unless I die in a horrible Paramotor crash. I've owned 2 Vito's. Still have a Mav for my 2nd backup. 1st backup is Polini 202.
Unfortunately, there's no upgrade option for existing engines, due to production limitations as I was told. But would it technically be possible? I mean are most of the parts identical?
Damn good question! I am not sure, but there were a lot of wires, albeit neatly placed, making their way around this engine. It might be possible to convert, but it would be a task to challenging to make it make sense for the manufacturer have as an option. Personally, I wouldn’t do it. And I wouldn’t take it to any old mechanic to do it. Once again, not sure if it would be possible. This is just my guess.
Ask your self this with vittorazi exhaust issues and how they havent been able to solved that issue how long will the efi last not only that if it breaks where wil you get it fixed and how long will you be down for in reaility. And let's be honest for the price of it you could nearly have a deposit on a house 😂😂
HOW LONG IS THE WARRANTY FOR THIS UNIT MODEL? ARE ALL TESTING COMPLETE?FINISHED, FOR THE CONSUMERS.. OH I AM IMPRESSED.😃WHATS THE COST? AND CAN THE INJECTION BE FITTED TO CARB MODELS? WITHOUT BUYING A BRAND-NEW MODEL
I AM NOT SURE. BUT MY ASSUMPTION IS THAT, NO, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO ADD THIS ON. MY THOUGHT IS THAT THEY WOULDN’T MAKE AS MUCH IF THEY SOLD THIS PART TO MOD YOUR CURRENT ENGINE. PLUS, THE AVERAGE CONSUMER WOULD LIKELY STRUGGLE WITH THE INSTALLATION AND BE A HEADACHE FOR THEM. AND IT COULD LEAD TO MORE NEGATIVE REVIEWS. JUST MY GUESS THIUGH. AND AS FOR THE COST, IM NOT SURE. SAME WITH THE WARRANTY. SORRY. 😬
Nice, I really want this on my FR though! One day. What is the maintenance cycle on these? Are they end user serviceable without specialized tools, skills or software?
Man! That would be sweet!!! I ought to record a podcast episode with someone at Vitto or Fly Products to try and get more info out of them. Currently, I am doubtful that end user will be conducting much (if any) maintenance on the EFI. It’ll likely need to be sent to an authorized tech. I’ll try to get clarification on this.
@@AnthonyVella cool, thanks. I'd be interested to know. I just got a Rider Double FR just about 2 years ago, so It will be a bit before I am looking for a new motor. But when I do, I hope this tech is everywhere! If it's like $1000 and send out every 200 hours or something that's one thing vs if it's the same every 50 hours, lol.
In effect, the fact that you are dependent on a battery puts you in exactly the same category as an electric paramotor. The allure of PPG for me, is XC, and for that I'm going with something I understand how to maintain and repair in the field. Electronics are fallible.;.
That could be true, but it could also not be true. Time will tell. Ultimately, IF the EFI holds up to real world application, things will go wrong less. After all, that’s the objective of having EFI; a more reliable system.
@@GolfFoxtrot22 Just teasing you. Hahaha. BTW, my son leaves RAF Croughton in Sept. My boy is coming home! He wants to fly my Thor 303 foot-launch. Its to heavy for me, but I bet he can.
It’s awesome to see this advance in technology! For the price and mechanical issues down the line. I’ll be honest I’d rather wait for full electric motor technology to come out. Battery weight and autonomy technology is getting so much better these days.
Man! I’m really excited for that as well. Would LOVE to test and make a video on that as well. I drive a Tesla (not a snob) and I LOVE it!!! It’s so dang smooth and powerful. I’d love to see advancements in it. Just like this, I’m cautiously optimistic. Still, it deserves attention!
For most people, yes. But if you’re me, you’ll always run out of gas. Therefore, a nuclear powered paramotor is what I need. One bb of uranium 235 will resolve my problems forever!
Or you could just use a smart carb and it would be significantly simpler amd cheaper for the same result. No batteries, ecu, pump, screens, injector, etc.
@@AnthonyVella they already make the model specific for polini 202, 250 and 303. Same results but without the battery, ecu, pump, sensors, etc. Seems like a simpler solution to the same problem
Remember, this is 2-stroke. The injection is going into the crank case to hit the main bearing first and then get sucked up into the cylinder during the down stroke. Only way I can think of to raise efficiency would be to directly inject during the top of the compression stroke, but then you would need a second injector to keep the bearings and cylinder lubricated.
seems like more crap to break to me, kinda like the time I got stranded for a crank position sensor going out in a car. I can see a gas cap seal leaking and causing the fuel tank to not pressurize or an o2 sensor getting fouled with 2 stroke oil, or,,,,,,,,, dare I say it,,,,,,, the bung in the exhaust for the o2 sensor propagating an exhaust crack..... think about it. No thanks.
EFI is cool, but not thousands of dollars cool. I think before the whole industry makes to to EFI, we will have electric paramotors good for 2+ hours of flight even for big, 6'+ 250lbs+ pilots.
@@AnthonyVella ahhhh okay. Makes sense. I'm a mechanic. In fact I am a race tech for two stroke motorcycles by training. Especially high comp engines. So right away I cringed when you ran it up right out of the box practically. Then I heard you cut the throttle before you started swooping. Figured you cold seized her
To answer your question Anthony, "What would be the ultimate paramotor engine".... that would be a direct cylinder injection 2 stroke. This is not direct injection, and as such does not, and will not provide the claimed benefits. 20%? Not even close. 20% in the ICE world would be absolutely earth shattering. If we could get 20% gains from EFI on 2 strokes I assure you it would have been mandated by governments long ago and every 2 stroke manufactured would have EFI. I suspect maybe a 4-5% overall gain over the lifespan of the engine, if that. There are certainly benefits, but to really get any meaningful gains we need direct injection which has its own drawbacks. There is a reason the highest performance 2 stroke motorbikes etc. still use a carburetor. There are a few that are EFI, but not many.
Honestly, doesn’t seem like a real concern. I absolutely understand the fear, but I firmly believe you will never hear of what your fathoming. Like Tesla, naysayers worried about batteries exploding. Didn’t happen though. And there are millions of them on the road. I’d bet a lot of money on this.
@@AnthonyVella Isn't the battery a LiPo? Those are well known in RC world to go into flames, mostly when charging but also when punctured (in a crash). Your Tesla uses Li-Ion tech, much safer. And Tesla uses advanced BMS with cooling, this battery has none and it is sitting lonely in a container which can get hot in a sun. I wonder if Vitto can switch to LiFe batteries instead for better safety
"smart" engine............with only a two blade prop............... = how "smart" is that really ? Second: that thing might become a gamechanger.........but only for rich kids........ :-(
1) Smart is because of the addition of a computer. 2) Not sure where you live, but here in the USA, there are poor people driving around in expensive cars with expensive rims wearing expensive clothes. Truthfully, if there is something you want (within reason) you can get it. If you think it costs too much, you didn’t want it bad enough. If YOU want it, I guarantee you can get it.
Didn't even watch you video because this system is a loser. Two strokes need direct injection timed to avoid the time when the exhaust port is exposed, thereby causing a 30% loss of fuel out the exhaust, unburned. At a quick glance, this is simply a throttle body injection system where the only benefit is automatic tuning. This is a complete fail, especially when considering the price tag.
But what about the music!?!? I spent HOURS trying to find the right music for this video! Lol. For real, I don’t know Jack about engines (ok, maybe a little). I just like flying and making videos. All I know is that it started great every time, literally effortlessly, and that it ran as well as the I’ve ever known a Moster 185 to run. But you ought to leave a like for the effort put into making paramotor content that came from the horses mouth.
