The Future of Star Wars: X-Wing Second Edition 

wink0083 5 faction conversion kits at $50 a piece, plus the core game. That's heading for $300 and doesn't account for multiple ships. At the end you essentially have the same game bar a few minor rule changes.

iamallthatiscomedy bwahahahahaha!

iamallthatiscomedy they will. I predict two "most wanted" style expansions for both factions next year. This will tie up with episode 9 and wave of ships connected the film. The fact that they haven't released the first order or resistance faction conversions indicates that they are waiting until they can add more ships.

Unfortunately the Death Star display mat is currently not available, we checked.

Team Covenant Boo! Maybe it will be one of those other new things they are planning for the future. A trench run mission would be super cool.

PrezPendejo really bugs me that T-65 X-Wings aren't viable even though the damn game is called X-Wing. Honestly they should have named it Star Wars Squadron or something.

That is the idea as we understand it. One of the big reasons for 2E is exactly what you mention. Because point costs and upgrade slots can be adjusted on the fly, the goal is to keep every ship viable so you can play the squad that you want.

I always felt that the greatest strength and weakness of the game were the cards. Having it all updated on an app is... just not the same as having a physical set of rules in your hand but it makes a lot of sense and is still a huge step up from constantly having to buy new rule books a la every other major tabletop game or being stuck with the increasingly clunky (or obsolete/underpowered) rules set out in cards that can't be changed. Paying for this conversion pack may be expensive but I agree this game had outgrown the system it was built in and I much prefer that to having to buy all-new figures. And if the app system can make future updates freely available hopefully we'll only have to do this once.

One of the key things to know is that all of the physical components are still there. The only difference is that they no longer have point costs on them, so the app only comes out when building a list. Everything else is the same.

Ah I misunderstood that. Thanks.

We are trying to ascertain this as well. You will know when we do!

Team Covenant thanks guys! Your all doing a great job, Hope to see you on the table top one day!

Thanks for commenting! The costs of running a company are certainly to be considered. We are excited to see how everything progresses.

It's really solid to have this retrospective. Appreciate you sharing it!

Thanks Will!

Thanks Joachim!

The Swartz and yet they'll also be selling cheaper upgrade-only expansions, so veterans don't have to buy models they already own! How evil!!

Jerry Kirkham Dude, X-Wing 1.0 is still viable, this is just a completely brand new game. Just stick with the older game if you don’t like the new change

Haha! Recording one about Second Edition right now!

It is not app driven. You reference the app or website when building a list. That is the only time it comes into play.

Well that alleviates concern on one of the several points I brought up. But when compared to similarly priced games in the same genre (mostly past games as the space fighter arena has become sparse these days), say silent death as a good example, that is what I would call a core box. (a tiny bit of overkill on the mini's included, but that felt like added value) It allowed players to really dig into the world and play several scenarios with variety, and once that was played out there were countless ships to add, expansion rule books etc etc...same with the B5 games, though not mini's the core game was all there with plenty of ship counters and what not. X-Wing is in every way modern, many of them good ways (speed of play, non clunky mechanics etc), but the core experience feels more akin to a free to play online game that dangles the real game in your face, a modern aspect I really quite resent in a tabletop game.

Yeah, that is a more than reasonable assessment of the Core experience. Second Edition includes a new Core Set format called "Escalation" that dresses it up quite a bit, but your key point is still quite valid.

TheGreatHamEl 250 minimum?

Strider Zessei If you want to play with more than 2-3 ships for the Rebels and Imperials, which I assume most people will, then 5 faction packs x $50 = $250. This doesn't even take into account that you'll need at least one core set or the Resistance or First Order faction packs when they are released or the upgrades for the ships for any faction not in wave one. They're totally gouging us.

First off, FO and Resistance packs won't be 50 bucks. They've already confirmed that. Secondly, how many ships do you intend to use at a single time? will you really need 6 X-Wing dials and cutouts? Third, what do you expect? Each conversion kit has literally HUNDREDS of pilot cards, upgrades, cutouts, and more. 50 bucks for a kit is a STEAL compared to paying 95 bucks for the Imperial Raider, just to play with Palpatine.

That comparison makes little sense. But you're obviously an apologist, so I'm done with this conversation.

It makes all the sense in the world, but I can see you just want to whine and moan because you can't have everything for free. Go on, run away in the face of calm and rational logic.

And that price hike has zero justification, as far as I can tell.

With the rise in demand for the hobby, production costs have increased. For example, the price of paper has increase 50%.

Jesse Haulk, now I know that’s not true. There hasn’t been a spike that big in paper costs alone.

So. Here's an example. Spirit Island. If you bought the first print run, it was $50. If you bought the second print run, it was $60. The reasoning they gave was the cost of paper increasing. And across the industry, component prices have increased. But it could also be that the industry is in some grand conspiracy to take advantage of increased demand. But if you want a reference to the price in paper spike. www.scmp.com/business/money/money-news/article/2076462/paper-price-rally-extend-2017-amid-limited-capacity-and

jesse, no grand conspiracy, just greed. the whole game could have been rebalanced at zero cost to existing players. they chose to extort us instead

"The mechanical update was necessary" "forcing me to buy a whole bunch of new shit I don't want."

While I agree the conversion kits feel overpriced, no one is forcing you to buy them. Unless you are competitive player that take part in official tournaments(And even then, you only really need the kit for the faction you compete with). Most of the changes are reducing info on the pieces and other visual edits. All of which are unneeded or easy DIY for personal play. As for the bigger change, as long as you have the app(which you kind of have to for list building), you can play just fine. All you really need is the new core box for the rules, and even then you could just wait for someone to post them online. Not to mention, all of this is assuming you want to play this edition. You are more than free to continue playing the current version. The only change will be the lack of tournaments and new expansions.

overpriced? the conversion kits come out to averaging $1.30-1.45 per ship converted depending on the faction and thats not even accounting for the 100+ upgrade cards included in the kit. The kits are an amazing deal, the only issue is the locked spreadout of the ships will prolly have too many of some ships and not enough of others for most people. Thankfully x wing has always had a really strong secondary market so also not an actual issue. The conversion kits are definitely not overpriced though.

World of Warpaint go play some of Games Workshop's titles.. I hear they never release new editions... Or Privateer Press like Warmachine/Hordes.

Good idea! Here's what you do: buy Runewars, go to your store, and try to get a group going. We desperately want to keep the game going, but interest is waning, and people like you can make a difference!

ok, I posted that before the end of the video. I really like the idea of the quick builds with the ships. that's actually really awesome. I like casually playing with some friends. but I have all the ships. They don't have much intrest in list building. so I end up building a bunch up lists and letting them choose. having them just grab ships they like and use quick builds is a fantastic idea. I retract my previous statement.

It really does sound like a great idea! We are excited to look at ways to implement it in our storefront, especially, like you said, with casual or new players!

Yeah, this was my one real cause for concern as well (i.e. what happens in ten or twenty years of FFG no longer has the license, or an iOS update inevitably renders the app inoperable), but quick builds do really go a long way toward fixing that for casual players (of which I am one). I’m really genuinely excited about this!

So are we! What part did you enjoy the most?

I'm so overloaded with all the good ideas, Changing how turrets work is likely my #1 because I never felt like they felt like x-wing. Too many turrets lost that dog fight feel that is important to me. The FAQ lists the conversion kit allows for 3 decimators... so I'm also just hoping that's not a typo because seeing 3 decimators on a table is too funny to me. like.... WHAT.

Me too! I jumped into Runewars because a) I needed a break from Star Wars overload, and b) X-wing simply wasn't fun any more. I'm glad I got to try a different system, but it will be so nice to hop back in the cockpit again! My favorite part has to be that many of these cards and counter-cards have been fixed, eg. turret dominance and the Autothrusters counter; the clunkiness of Extra Munitions; all those cards that came out to patch older out-paced ships. Yeah, I can't wait to get my hands on 2.0!

I’m excited but I haven’t started the game yet so I guess I’ll wait till x wing 2 is out to start

Just hoping we get all the cool ships from the previous edition

I'm in your boat too.. i have red/green problems too (rather a weakness instead of being outright colorblind) so for me it's hard to differentiate small areas of red or green.

FPAlpha I’m not colour blind but it’s nice that they are making the game more accessible to everyone

i am old school on this subject, but what does HWK mean?

only 2 defenders, 2 xwings etc. so theyve made it so you need to buy 2 for each faction.

What are you specifically referring to?

Also the if you buy an Imp, Rebel and Scum kits, the upgrades and modification cards in the 2nd and 3rd kits are redundant so a waste of money. They really need to make the upgrades just dials and pilots and drop the price. Add all the mods and upgrades to its own box.

I'm glad you have good taste in mediocre/avg games. You can look around and play games where core sets alone give you more replay value than a game + ten expansions :) Salt is good.

Nain1982 I don’t have good taste in “average / mediocre” games; I have good taste in GREAT games. X-Wing is one of FFG’s most popular games and I find that people who get salty over game changes or mechanics just either lack the skill to play and learn or have a hard time keeping up with the meta. If you pay attention, x-wing is a game that you can typically run 3-4 decent ships because of the point cost of your squad and they give you cool models that you don’t have to assemble or paint, which is a value in itself. You’d understand if you’ve ever heard of or actually played Warhammer, Star Wars Legion, etc.. basically any miniatures game... The core set gives you 3 ships and all the components you need for about 25-35$ depending where you buy from and the expansions are about 15$, which you get about 2-4 every wave. That is a lot cheaper than any of the other mini games I’ve seen. As for replay value? There’s a TON of replay value. I have a difficult time choosing what I want to play because there’s so many list combinations as of current. If you think it doesn’t, then either you have too much time on your hands or you’re just looking for something to complain about.

Nain1982 I’m hyped because I haven’t actually played x wing yet but it’s nice to have to start the game and just go along as ships come up then have to immediately jump off into the deep end with no prior experience. I’m just hoping we get an a wing, ywing, b wing and the millennium falcon

You must suck at this game ti do notizie notice 2.0 Is in a alpha test and realesed... Etherial rules are the synthoms of uncertain game. Adding adding adding.... Less Is more You F*** idiots!!!

yep

With their Buzz Droids!

And the old republic ships!

And the clone wars scum ships.. Hondo and his crew would be awesome, flying saucers of doom!!

...I'd probably go broke if they did this. I can't imagine I wouldn't want to sleep on a bed of Sith Destroyers staring at my Ceiling made from Fury class ships.

Would not want Old Republic.. that has too many factions to choose from.. Would be best to stick with the three timelines we currently have that are within the films. Even though the K-wing comes from after the time of the sequel films and is a rebel ship.. and the rebels have clone wars era ships that they really shouldn't.

We definitely felt the heaviness of the game at that time. Really happy to see it addressed! It has certainly renewed our interest.

Zach Greenwalt The Epic ships are not included in the Conversion kits.

The faction conversion kits will have the updated of all existing content, from what I understand. It will be the 2.0 version of Palpatine, but it should be included.

Increase of production costs. Price of paper increased 50% last year, and plastic has risen 10% as China has implemented more environmental regulations. Crude oil prices have also increased, and demand in general has increased.

Jesse Haulk The emphasis on 2.0 is to focus on the flying and the companion APP. This leans toward less paper components in each expansion.

You'll still need paper components for all the cards you'll need. They just removed the point values from the cards.

Yeah, but I bet they stayed with the same Chinese production companies vs. bidding it out and finding a more competitive price. They just said, "Meh, we'll just pass the cost to our customers." Seriously, I'm sure that's exactly how it went down, but with more sinister music in the background.

iamallthatiscomedy maybe in 3.0 you'll be able to take the pilot out and play with it while you wait for your turn -_-

If you calculate all the ships, yes. But the makeup of the boxes is just nonsense from a player's standpoint. 2 X-Wings per set for the Rebels? 4 regular TIEs but 3(!) Decimators per Imperial kit? Buying the starter set again to get crucial stuff like a damage deck? That's 140 bucks to run a simple TIE swarm. I foresee a lot of high-quality PDFs of the whole box contents in the future, with only people playing in FFG events really buying into the conversion kits.

Check it out, it shows now 2 decimators and 3 starwings, it was changed!

Thanks for commenting! We are concerned about how often updates will be pushed out through the app as well. So far we have been reassured that balancing will be posted no faster than 1-2 months, and they will announce changes before hand, so no one is caught off guard.

what0080 you'll still be able to play the original game. But you will be limited when it comes to future tornements and expansions.

Alex Taylor unless you want to play in tournaments.....

Except that will split the player base.

Alex Taylor, tell that to all the A Game of Thrones LCG 1st Edition players... wait... there are none... strange, ain't it?! That comment is pretty reductive.

Well, I’ve never played any CCGs, but I know a lot of people who play WHFB 8th edition because they don’t like AoS, even though it’s no longer officially supported, and some friends of mine a few years back ran a D&D 1st edition campaign just for kicks. I played some WEG d6 Star Wars and SW Miniatures Battles even while WotC was producing SW books and minis. My point being (speaking as someone who fully intends to upgrade to X-Wing 2nd edition and has no qualms about doing so), there are an awful lot of ‘obsolete’ games being played out there, and it doesn’t make them any less fun. I couldn’t care less about tournament play or competition, but for those who do, this is simply the cost of their chosen hobby. It’s how the business works, and no amount of complaining will change that.

Point 1. - perhaps you're mistaken about WHFB 8th Edition with The 9th Age, which is the current Warhammer Fantasy Battles edition maintained by the active community since GW shifted to AOS and it's totally free. I repeat, totally free. And yes, there are players playing it because, well, guess what, there are tournaments of it (even ITC, ETC ones). Point 2. - some friends of yours run TSR D&D 1, cool. Go to a LGS, any one where D&D is being played and tell me how many groups do you see playing D&D 1? Right! Point 3. - don't compare "obsolete games" or "dead games" as the examples you pointed with "updated games". There's a huge difference between a game that is abandoned by its manufacturer and people play it anyways with the rules up to the date of its end and a game that is updated to a new edition that is not retro-compatible with it's previous one. We're not talking about a Warhammer or Flames of War army that is outdated but still playable in the updated edition until the new book comes out, we are talking about a whole game needing to be upgraded to be played in the latest edition. Point 4. - "I couldn’t care less about tournament play or competition" -> cool, I also don't care about you or your opinion. See my point? Right. Point 5. - "this is simply the cost of their chosen hobby. It’s how the business works, and no amount of complaining will change that." -> No, it is not. And that is exactly the point. Now, on the other two examples I can simply shift from one edition to another by simply buying the army book. 20 bucks and I have everything for my army ready to go. If we look at Warmachine/Hordes, I dare to say as it is right now it costs me 0 bucks to upgrade my army since the cards and all the info regarding my gaming pieces are free to download on the manufacturer website. Now 50 bucks for cards?! 100 to a competitive player? 150 to a collector?! Sorry but that's not how business works, that's how exploitation works. They, FFG, are milking the players that were already milked when they got in the game. And now they have to buy, again, the cards they had bought for their game, again... But you're right on one thing, complaining will not change that. But do you know what makes a change? The exactly same thing that changed A Game of Thrones LCG, from being the top played LCG to tank-down near-dead LCG as it is. Will X-Wing survive the tanking?! Let's see... with Legion happening right now and cannibalizing the X-Wing market this 2nd Edition may be the decline of X-Wing Miniatures Game.

50 dollars for a conversion kit is an amazing value. Have you SEEN how much comes in one? It's literally HUNDREDS of components, including pilot cards, upgrades (including everything from the new Wave 1), templates, etc. I think people are really underestimating how much it costs to produce everything. At least we don't have to buy all the models over again.

"All your ships are valid".............but if you wanna play now you gotta fork over the cash for conversion kits.... In other words, yes, my ships are now not valid.

Yeah i thought that too. Just gonna finish my 1.0 collection and be happy because its finally finished

Great question, from our conversations with the designers we gather that the App is only referenced while squad building, with updates being pushed out no less than a month at a time, barring hotfixes. We are confident that the app is not required while playing the game.

That is awesome! Thank you so much for commenting! It really all comes down to support like your's that empowers us to continue raising the bar.

Cheers guys! Thanks for the reply and good luck with the new content!

We don't know either way on this right now. We will try and ascertain as more information releases.

Update on this, yes you will. FFG will have all the data available as a printable PDF. You are all set to camp and squad-build!

wow, thanks for the followup! with this news i have no qualms with 2.0. im excited for The Rebalancing

Yeeeeee I got a heart

Tabitha Martin you spent over 3000, but now less than 200 is totally unacceptable? Lol.

+Strider Zessei youbetcha. it's the principle of it. I refuse to support greed. I am done with X-wing, and done with FFG.

Tabitha Martin but FFG is a business. Their whole purpose is to make money, partly, yes, for a profit, but also because this is people's livelihood here. For the sake of argument, how would you do it if you were in their shoes?

I'll give you 100 bucks for your ships only, you can keep 1E upgrades and pilots ;P

Yes, the kits convert multiple of the same ship. Check our blog for more info: teamcovenant.com/learning/star-wars-x-wing/everything-need-know-x-wing-second-edition-x2-reboot

Haha, well there are still Defenders! And every ship should be playable in Second Edition given the app/point/upgrade slot balancing.

From what we have heard, They recognized that was a huge problem with 1.0 and will not repeat it. The conversion kits will contain all upgrades and pilot cards for their designated ships.

From what we have gathered so far, pilot cards, upgrade cards and maneuver dials are included in the conversion kits!

Yeah, really curious to see how it all works out. We are pretty much looking at it as an initial $90 investment (one faction upgrade, one core set) to get in on the new edition - then upgrading another faction a few months later or just sticking with one.

I'm probably gonna upgrade, but I'm betting some existing players will say "No Thanks." FFG is certainly betting on getting more new players and growing that way.

We get the sense that all of the new releases will be Second Edition only. Saw's Renegades and TIE Reaper are hybrid releases just given that they are in between First and Second Edition.

That's what I thought(hoped), thanks!

Maizrim yeah seriously confused by that I’m hoping it’s a mistake

Maizrim the x3 decimated was a typo. It's supposed to be 2 deci and 3 gunboats, but it was shown 3 deci and 2 gunboats.

Leigh Skilling I dont disagree with you, but how much did over 100 ships cost? 2 grand? How many of them do you actually use, just do the set you use most often first?

I play all of them at different time. I also host games for new players and friends. This is a real killer for me. No way out. It will take multiple update kits to cover all my fleets. I have 4-6 of some ships.

You DO need the app he says in the interview 10:09. "You'll just need to have access to it before hand." How gracious of them not to require it at the table.

Hmm. Not according to FFG.

they said theres a website and a phone app. Don't act like 95% of the playerbase doesn't use any kind of list builder, its fine.

He specifically says that if you want to play in organized competitive play, you will *need* access to the internet *or* the app. I think anyone seriously playing this game can swing that...

The point is longevity. By tying it to a required app, down the road when FFG stops supporting it, the company folds, loses Star Wars licensing etc., the game will take a serious and unnecessary hit.

Planning to ask Andrew about this option in our post-launch interview with him. It certainly would have been a nice move for players.

Do you really need 3 conversion kits out the gate? Are you not content to get the one of the faction you play the most and wait to get the rest later?