I'm 68 years old , a huge Toronto Maple Leaf fan and yes I loved Tim Horton, but I'm afraid Borje Salming was the greatest defensemen in Leaf history. 1099 games for the Leafs 148 goals and 620 assists for 768 points. No other Leaf defenseman has come close to those numbers. This is why he should be the greatest defenseman in Leafs history.
I agree & don't. I have Turnbull & Salming tied. Salming still holds record for assist 1 season by Toronto defenseman at 66. He hold record for assist all time by a Toronto hockey player career 620. Goals & points all time by Toronto defenseman. Turnbull is only defenseman in NHL history to record 5 goals in a single game he also scored a 4 goal game as a l.a king. Still holds record for points one season by Toronto defenseman 79 set in 1977. He shares the club record for goals 1 season by Toronto defenseman 22 with Ifrati. Just because these defenseman didn't win a stanley cup & Horton did doesn't make him the better defenseman it takes a team to accomplish that. Horton didn't set the records these men did.
@@ericw3229Be honest, cup wins before 68 when you had only six teams are a little easier to win. Still 4 wins, but once more competition was added it became so much harder. Borje was always going to struggle to win even 1 cup.
@@cyleemanIan Turnbull to me should be declared the Most Underachieving defenceman in Leafs history. He had the skills to surpass Salming if he realized his potential. Milt Schmidt once said that "if a player better than Bobby Orr comes around, I hope that the good Lord sees me fit to be on this Earth...well he did get to see Ovechkin but not McDavid. But this is about defencemen. None the less, I'm old enough to remember Bobby Orr. NOBODY that I saw in the 20th century, defenceman or forward came anywhere near Number 4 - NOBODY, not even Gordie Howe, Bobby Hull, Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux.
While people are mentioning Ian Turnbull with Salming, don't forget Horton's teammates Allan Stanley and Carl Brewer were finishing in the top 4 defensemen in the All Star voting at season end a few years in the 1960s. Year End All Star selections - Tim Horton (6), Borje Salming (6), Carl Brewer (4), Allan Stanley (3), Ian Turnbull (0)
@@jeffrorichard2765 Orr has been retired for 46 years and is still considered the greatest. Chara was great but i highly doubt he will be remembered the same way.
@@jeffrorichard2765Chara is not even in the same galaxy as Orr. Orr isn’t just the greatest defenseman to play the game either. He’s considered one of the three greatest PLAYERS to play the game. His name is usually mentioned with the likes of Gretzky, Howe and Lemieux. You may have heard of them…
For Arizona, methink Teppo Numminen tops OEL. He put up the same kind of offense for a lot longer for the Coyotes and Jets before that. And for St Louis, y'all are underrating Pronger. Pietrangelo might have a cup and more consistent offense, but Pronger won a Hart trophy as a D-Man and made St Louis into a powerhouse for a decade. He also has 1200 more PIM than Piet in about 100 more games, and he wasn't even a reckless player. He was just a mean SOB nobody wanted to play against who would also pop in a bunch of points every season from the blue line.
I mean for Arizona Id rather have either Housley, Babych or Numminen as you said. OEL was a good player but he was never truly on a same level as these 3
It's the unpopular opinion but I consider both Orr and Lidstrom the GOATS of defensemen. One is the greatest offensive, the other the greatest defensive. I feel there is a significant difference but still importance in that. Teams target responsible shutdown D-men as well as pinching up slapshot bombers. There should be two awards since only the top points leaders get full Norris consideration
@@brandons9138 true. But there are also a lot of things to talk about. Like Lindstrom's ability to stop zone entries and having great hand eye etc. There are things to mention at least :)
It's wild! He missed 42 games over the course of his entire career, with 12 being in his final season. And he played 263 playoff games. It's effectively like he never missed a game, played full seasons in the '95 and '05 lockout, and STILL played enough games to at least play one round of playoffs all 20 years. I think his conditioning is one of his greatest strengths, and that, along with his vision/decisionmaking, are what made him so elite. He obviously was never a big physical presence, he wasn't a huge offensive threat, and he wasn't even known for extreme speed. But, as those game played stats showed, he was ALWAYS available, and as people who watched him know, he played at a consistently high level for virtually his entire career. He simply always had both the awareness and ability to be in the right place at the right time constantly, over 20 years. Which is hard to quantify, but definitely makes him one of the greatest to ever play the position.
As a life-long Bruins fan, I've always felt bad for Ray Bourque. On nearly any other team, he would be the all time #1. You simply cannot complete with a God.
Is it possible to alternate the start from Z to A? Being a Canucks fan, its always at the end of the videos. Gr8 video though! Looking forward for more content! 😊
Dude Gretzky had by far the highest IQ of any player in history. When you watch a game with a pen and paper drawing continuous lines cause you want to know where the puck goes most often and you are 10 years old when you do this. Your hockey IQ is off the charts.
Ian Turnbull or Borje Salmon were the greatest toronto defenseman all time. Ian Turnbull 5 goals 1 game is the Nhl record for most goals in a game by NHL defenseman & he also scored 4 goals 1 game. Most goals season by Toronto defenseman 22 & most points season by Toronto defenseman 79. Most assist all time by a toronto maple leaf hockey player 620 Borje Salming. Most assist 1 season toronto defenseman 66. Most goals,assist & points all time by toronto defenseman 148 goals. 620 assist,768.
I was so glad when you announced Dustin Byfuglien as Winnepeg's best D Man. Otherwise I would have had a whole different kind of comment to leave. lol. Anyone reading this just check out his highlight hits and you will see exactly what I'm talking about.
Tough choices for some teams, no brainers for others, which leaves a lot of defensemen off the list who would be there if they played for someone else, or it was straight up top 32 defensemen overall. At least a few got mentioned as runners up. For the Rangers I would have gone with Brad Park, but can’t complain about Leetch.
I called it for Dallas. I was racking my brain to think of the Dallas Stars. Derian Hatcher was the captain when we won it all and Miro Heiskenan has been a hell of a D man in recent times. Jon Klingberg was definitely great and I would even consider Trevor Daley. But then I realized: who’s the only Star-North Star defenseman who has his number retired? Sergei Zubov. Duh of course it’s him.
There's only three men in NHL history with a higher career +/- than Wayne Gretzky and all three were defensemen. Wayne Gretzky's team scored 520 more goals than they allowed when Wayne was on the ice during his NHL career. Ray Bourque was +527, Bobby Orr was +582 and Larry Robinson was +792. Bobby Orr's single season +124 in 1970-1971 is the single most impressive hockey stat that I have ever seen.
Orr was also a great defensive defenseman its just his offensive skills overshadowed those defensive skills. Its Orr number 1 and.it really isn't even close for number 2 and I'm a.diehard Leaf fan who hates the Bruins. For.my money Orr is the greatest hockey player period that I have ever seen play.
As someone who watched and cheered those late 90s/early 2000s Devils teams it feels wierd seeing Niedermeyer picked for Anaheim as, to me, hes always a Devil first.
Dahlin will eventually be the Sabres' best d-man. He won't get quite as many points as Housley, but he's a better all-around player. I think he will take his game to the next level next year playing a full season with Byram.
Bobby Orr. The best there ever was. The Awards he won in a single season, 1970, will never be duplicated. 1970 : NORRIS SMYTHE HART ROSS PLUS MINUS LEADER STANLEY CUP CHAMP All in one single season.
I am going to say something that I am sure most people will not agree with , but I don't think Bobby Orr was the greatest defensemen that Boston ever had. I think the greatest defensemen of the Bruins was Raymond Bourque. Bobby Orr revolutionized the position of defensemen, yes 100%. However, when it comes to the best defenseman in Bruins history, I believe Ray Bourque has a longer and better tenure to his career with the Bruins. However I will never deny how much of an impact Bobby Orr made to the game, he will always be one of the great ones
Phyllis for Buffalo? You must be joking! Cannot play defense, cannot work the corners, cannot clear the front of the net. So poor at defense the Sabres put in on the wing! First by far with no competition is Mike Ramsey. Watch the Miracle on the Ice final minutes. Who was on the ice? Mike Ramsey.
Маккиннис в Калгари конечно молодец и возможно лучший, но был и есть Марк Джиордано ещё. Хотя бы упомянуть, как в случае с игроками Брюинз, можно было бы
As a Colorado Native, and lifelong fan of the Avalanche, at first I had to say... Cale Makar is not the Avalanche all time greatest, however, He is absolutely proving that he will become the greatest. But, in the meantime let's look at the other greats. Like Adam Foote. Just watch his highlights..... I will wait... (wink)
Mark Howe was the greatest defenseman to never win the norris.....dude NEVER made the wrong play the way he skated it was like he wasn't even trying.....could lead a rush and still get back on D......yound flyers fans say eric desjardins I say to them you never saw mark howe....his wrist shot was a rocket....man he deserved a cup.Class act played through injuries.
As a Wings fan whose formative years of hockey fandom coincided exactly with Lidstrom's career, I feel like this was true in the '90s (see how he was used to counter Philly's Legion of Doom, instead of the Wings going with a more "brute force vs. brute force" route of throwing Konstantinov at them), but as he racked up Norris trophies and won the Conn Smythe among one of the most star-studded Cup-winning squads ever, I don't think you could say that by the mid-00s. Nowadays, virtually every time I see the topic come up, I very rarely see Lidstrom considered worse than third-greatest dman of all time.
He had some terrific years in Philly. Mark had a monster year in 1979-80 with the Whalers, notching 24-56-80. He was severely injured the following season and he was almost paralyzed. A year and a half later, he went from Hartford to Philadelphia. Without that blunder of a trade and the later salary dump of Ron Francis, I am convinced the Whalers would still be in Hartford.@@ericw3229
As a Swede it makes me proud of the hockey skills that comes from this tiny country. But in my opinion this list made one big mistake. Börje Salming is in my opinion one of the greatest of all time. Unfortunaterly I didn't get to se him play live until he had retired and played a veterans game against Finland. But man what a sightseeing to se. Still showing what made him great. Sad to se his life end premature but his legacy still lives.
To put Larry Robinson ahead of Doug Harvey( the no. 2 defensemen all-time according to the Hockey News behind only Bobby Orr) is truly pathetic. You should be ashamed of yourselves. I'm sure Larry Robinson would be embarrassed.
@@thewolfdoctor761 Larry Robinson was a fantastic defenseman but there's no shame in being second behind Doug Harvey. Until Bobby Orr, every defenseman was fighting to be second to Doug Harvey. Whoever produced this video has his head up his ass.
Chris Pronger over Pietrangelo. He won the Hart trophy in St Louis and was easily a top 5 player in the league for almost his entire tenure in St. Louis. The irony that neither Pronger or Ray Bourque made this list (although Bourque’s exclusion is obvious) is beyond wild.
Wow. There is one Defenseman you totally missed. It's sad that someone makes a list, and the list is really crappy you have to do some digging, not just put guys who you remember.
Karlsonn might have been a great offensive defenseman for Ottawa, but id send Wade Redden, or Chris Phillips out on the ice for key situations instead of Erik every time.
Nick never played in a 32 team nhl but apart from that in hus prime ... Which was lol his whole career basically he definitely was one of the very best .
So sad for Raymond Bourque and Eddie Shore that they were on the same team as the greatest player ever because they were right up there with anyone else!
@@jeffrorichard2765 Chara's record on the slapshot was 108 mph, Bobby Hull had a 119 mph shot during that era and his career high was 58 as a forward... I honestly hope you were just kidding with that comment.
@@jeffrorichard2765if Z was using a old Sherwood you still think he could shoot 108? I doubt it. Although Al Iafrate hit 105 with that stick so who knows.
Scott N. ---12 years as a Devil? 5 years as a 'Duck', come on. Yes, he is better than Stevens and at least plays a clean game (ask Paul Kariya). Arizona...that's just bad. I suppose OEL was decent offensively for a time, but he was never good defensively. Controversial that you choose Robinson over Harvey, but both were amazing (Montreal has had so many great defensemen). Quinn Hughes is already the greatest Vancouver Canucks defenseman of all time (you could give him 2 more years, but really, you don't have to...) Josh Morrissey is the best Jets 2.0 defenseman now (but, we'll have to wait 4 more years probably before he overtakes Big Buf). Why do you mention how many Cups they've won? Personal trophies make sense, and you could've talked up their all round skills more?
Offensively Edler is the best defenseman up to now, that Hughes should become the best is pretty much a given provided he stays healthy and doesn't price himself out of Vancouver. One of the best defensemen in Vancouver history, I believe, is Harold Snepsts. He had little skill to start other than his size and willingness to use it, but he became a beloved fan favourite. His rushes up the ice were a sight to behold.
@@sharkycecil4991 Why? If Makar can be counted as Avs best already. He haven't been much longer in the league than Quinn. Hughes should be counted as Vancouvers best d-man ever.
Wait a minute…. Not so fast with Duncan Keith. How about Doug Wilson? Plus I would say Ray Bourque is Colorado’s best ever, and Quinn Hughes is definitely the best ever Canucks d-man.
As great as Tim Horton was for the Leafs, being a key component in 4 Stanley Cups, Borje Salming was much better. He should have won the Norris at least once. Other comments....if you could ignore long time Avalanche greats to pick Makar (who is the next Bobby Orr IMO), then why not pass over Edler and choose Quinn Hughes? Also, Erik Karlsson? He is glorified winger. Ask San Jose and now Pittsburgh how good a defenseman he is. Maybe it's because there aren't other strong candidates for the Senators.....
Man, whats wrong with you? Numinnen over OEL in Arizona, Salming in Toronto, you want pick by defensive side too? Then Salei for Anaheim, Glen Wesley Carolina, Canuck legend Paul Reinhart, Montreal greatest is Harvey, no doubt. You look there just by points, Harvey dominate game on both sides. St. Louis - Pronger was same. And Franchise is not same as team, team is Arizona, franchise is Winnipeg/Phoenix/Arizona.
Sorry but Erik Karlsson has nothing to do in this list. Probably one of the most overrated D-man in the NHL history. His career +/- stats : -97 says it all. Clearly this guy is anything but a good D-man !
The same can be said about Phil Housley who was a -53. He was basically a power play specialist. The best defensemen in Buffalo history is Bill Hajt who may be surpassed by Dahlin someday. BTW, Housley was -53, Hajt was +321.
What are you talking about,Hortons has the best Coffee. Where I live there is a Starbucks ( burnt coffee) & across the street ,Tim Hortons & in the morning rush Tim Hortons has a line up out the door & Starbucks at best has 3-4 people in it drinking their burnt coffee.
@@cyleeman i would literally rather use the bottom of the barrel beans from walmart, before ever going to Tims, or Starbucks for that matter. all those people waiting in line to pay too much for terrible coffee and breakfast sandwiches are morons.
@DirtyDan77 Well millions of Canadians will disagree with you atleast with the Coffee part. The service you get isn't what I would call top level or their food but their coffee is 10 times better than any coffee shop I have ever visited.