Clickbait title: Chinese demanded the Greeks to give up their ponies, the Greeks said Molon Labe (bit.ly/2QjcR3z), what happened next will blow your mind!
Great animation the subject was definitely strange. Never heard of this before though I've heard theories of Roman-Chinese interactions. Could you do a video on Greek and Roman settlement and involvement on the Crimean Peninsula? Or the Mongol siege of Kaffa?
I don't know if it could truly be called contact with the West. The Bactrian Greeks had been separated from the West for over a century. Their culture would've changed drastically in that time, like how the Scottish colonist in Northern Ireland started picking up some bits of Irish culture and making it their own within a century of setting foot in Ulster. Granted, both the Ulster Scots and the Bactrian Greeks would stick out like sore thumbs amidst the cultures and countries that surrounded them, but they would neither be fully Scottish or fully Greek. It might be more accurate to say that, in this instance, the Chinese had contact with a West like culture rather than contact with the West itself.
@@benjamingrist6539 Against that, you have the presence of Greeks in north-west India from before Alexander's invasion. They were not new to these parts, and they stayed on under Kushana imperium.
@@indrajitgupta3280 Well, the video wasn't in reference to that group of Greeks. Besides, the Greeks in Northwest India were so far removed from Greece itself and so close to India that their culture would very quickly change from being purely western to being a hybrid between Greek and Indian culture, as opposed to being truly Greek and/or western.
@@benjamingrist6539 As far as the first is concerned, you would have to be in the difficult position of proposing that none of the Greeks in the area when Alexander happened along were accepted in the new colonies. Is that your position? If not, in what way are the two groups being differentiated? Where did the colonies come from? Most of the soldiery went back, except for some of the garrison troops; it is difficult to see colonists being imported from Greece while wars were going on all around. With regard to the second point, yes, most certainly, there was an ingestion of local culture and habits, to the extent that among the kinfolk the Indo-Greeks, the portion that got separated during the wars of the Scythians and the Kushana, Menander came to be known as a prominent supporter of Buddhism. 'Truly Greek' or 'truly western' are curious categories; what would you call the Emperor Claudius who was more comfortable with Greek than with Latin? Do you then think that there are quintessential aspects of Greek and/or western culture that cannot be transmuted and cannot merge with other cultures? Some kind of ritual purity, perhaps? It is true that my attempt is to use argumentum ad absurdum, but do consider it.
BTW the distance between Alexandria Eschate and Chang'an is 3,500km, while the distance between it and Athens is just a little bit longer at 3,900km. We think it's not that far from China because it's pretty close to modern China's border, but we just forgot how huge modern China already is.
Thats true.But we have to remember that Athens wasnt the capital of Greece since Greece at that time was divided.After Alexander the Great died the cities regained their freedom and they formed the "city-state" model again. For example Spartans were indepedant and they hadnt join Alexanders army at all.
@@EvilSapphireR in term of the range?Yes...Difficulty?No...Alexander was facing another Empire back then...While those Han army only fought desert tribes.
Fun fact: Lu Bu's Red Hare was one of the few descendants of these heavenly horses ( 大宛马 Dayuan Horse). Fun fact 2: These heavenly horses improved Han armies a lot and finally helped them defeat Xiongnu (the huns). Half of Xiongnu surrendered to Han and another half later became the ancestors of Attila.
The Huns though had been suspected of being the descendants of Xiongnu, this has been challenged. Even though their names have the same origin and may sound similar, it does not mean these two groups were the same people. The Huns may be just a prestigious title that was popular among the nomad people living in the Eurasian Steppe at the time.
@@CDang-ms6dc bear in mind that it is possible that all of the theories about Huns are true; that they were both Turkic-Mongolic-Iranic-Yenisean all at the same time and its descendants did became the Huns. Remember the Xiongnu were a Confederation of tribes which means each tribes were probably an own sovereign entity with its own language and culture which only unite during times of war and invasions... and that the Confederation grew large from absorbing captives and defeated tribes they encountered along the way enriching their way of life. From excavated tombs of known Xiongnus it can be determined that 89% of Xiongnus are Mongoloid and 11% were Caucasoid, so we can say with confidence that the Xiongnus were multiethnic and diverse indeed! (though not "diversity" as we know it today...)
@@CDang-ms6dcXiongnu has always been translated as Hun by Central Asians, and besides.. now we have genetic evidence from European Huns, where they do show an East Asian signal - in addition to the Goths etc whom they assimilated
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there is a theory called black forest raised by a chinese scientific novelist, it says cultures are like the hidden hunter in a dark forrest, anyone who was seen by each other will get killed first
I think you might want to know how the Han Chinese perceived the Bactrian Greeks. So here is my translation of some excerpts of the record: "Dayuan is in the southwest of Xiongnu, and in the west of Han, and it is about 10,000 li (~4,000 km). They are a sedentary people, who farm wheat and rice. They have grape wine. There is also a abundance of good horses, who sweat blood, and are descendants of heavenly horses. They build cities, walls, and houses. They have more than 70 subordinate cities, large and small, and have a population of tens of thousands. Their soldiers include spearmen, archers, and cavalry. " Another excerpt: "The people in Dayuan make wine from grapes. Cellars of rich people may store more than 10,000 dan of wine, and some of them can be store for decades without getting sour. The people love wine, and their horses love clovers. Han envoys took their seeds back, and this was when the Emperor started to plant clovers and grapes on fertile lands. ...... West from Dayuan (Bactria), up until Anxi (Parthian Empire), the states had quite a variety of languages, but they were mostly similar in their customs, and could understand each other. The people have deep eyes and grow a lot of beard and hair. They are good at commerce and are very shrewd even with small amounts of money. Their customs put women in a high position, and the husbands often follow what the women say. The lands do not produce silk or lacquerware, and people do not know how to make coins and various vessels. The Chinese soldiers who surrendered taught them how to build other weapons. When they received gold and silver from Han, they often make them into vessels rather than use them as currency."
J M All of this is from 史記 (Records of the Grand Historian) by 司馬遷 (Sima Qian, 135 BC - 86 BC), in the chapter 大宛列傳 (Treatise on the Dayuan). I’m afraid I can’t find any English version, but if you could read Classical Chinese, just google it and there will be plenty of sources.
In the end, chinese demand both head of king and horse (and return of chinese gold.) as condition to spare the kingdom (the king made the same mistake led to mongol invasion 1100 years later, greed and murder.).
Da-yuan horse is one of the famous breeds in Chinese history. It is interesting to see the introduction of the horse breed is associated with a Greco-Chinese conflict and Zhang Qian's expedition. Good lecture, connecting multiple fractions of historical knowledge in my head.
While i'd want to learn this indeed: You have to learn about your own countries history. Here in germany, we first mostly learn about our history, like the Kaiserreich, the 3rd Reich, DDR and such stuff.
@@marvinradermacher5781 yes, but andreas is greek! and we have never learned anything about bactrians... in my days(i doubt much have changed) we spent most of our time learning about this and that war, about battles and battle tactics and shit, but not that much about the effects of all those battles... about how it shaped history etc... they are referenced but they are not presented as interestingly as they should be... i mean in all his glory for us greeks, alexander's importance is not in his actions and his battle achievements, but in what his successors managed to do...
@Sacred Squadron SAS The Greeks probably thought they were safe, given there was a literal desert protecting them. Not dissimilar to what the Khwarezmian empire did to the Mongolian envoys.
@Sacred Squadron SAS Its difficult to say given the time past, but unless the envoys were caught doing something illegal it is very hard to justify killing them. Remember when Alexander the Great and Darius III were exchanging messages they insulted and outright threatened each other but still did not kill the envoys.
@Sacred Squadron SAS Unlike the Persian the threat was answered and the Greeks bowed. Although under empror Han Wudi many Han diplomats died and became the catalyst for war. It was so widespread that the Xiongnu had to stop a Han envoy from commiting suicide to avoid a diplomatic incident.
"When Guangli informed the Emperor of the difficulties they had in the desert, Wu of Han responded by tripling the amount of men given to his general." This is so Chinese.
Establishing efficient supply line takes a long time. It can take up to several years even. They didn't plan on revisiting the place every year, or did they? Edit: So establishing a good-enough supply line, plus w/e they can grab along the way is actually the optimal approach. Look at Alexander the Great, that's what he did, he didn't bring all supplies from home. Mostly supplies are from the local regions where his main army is at.
The leading Han general, Li Guangli, later led a plot to overthrow the heir of Han emperor. By the time the emperor realized the plot, Li was commanding an Han army deep into Xiongnu. Afraid of being executed by the emperor, he just surrendered the remainder of his army and got well treated by the Xiongnu. The betrayal shocked the emperor and hence his family in Han capital executed. This could be the reason why the records about His campaign in the West were so few.
Li GuangLi not intend to surrendered at first, he wish to defeated Xiongnu for atonement, but unluckily he lost the fight so no choice other than surrendered to Xiongnu, he did get well treated by the Xiongnu but also killed by Xiongnu as a human sacrifice for god ritual , before he been executed, he shout angrily "when i died Xiongnu will be eliminated!" and Xiongnu did eliminated by Emperor Wu of Han
@@wildyracing1 yeah, greeks just disappeared, they live now in Marsh. They're presents were active for about 3000 years and more, but you think that they don't exist any more? You criticize others by your experience. Maybe you don't exist, or you are fantasized that you are somebody else... You are so pathetic..
As a Greek I admire the Chinese civilization, so different and distant from us...and is amazing to think that those two groups to have interactions back then. And is also amazing that Greek and Chinese language are the only so ancient (continually written down) languages that are still spoken regularly.
In the case of Chinese, writing does not reflect pronunciation in general. So the pronunciation changed a lot. Thus ancient Chinese may not be considered spoken regulary today. However, the writing system kept more or less the same because its relativly independence form pronunciation. Today most Chinese people can read and understand texts dating back to about 200BC.
amazing video is when Greek and Chinesse civilizations, the two major in worlds history are met.. especially when it talks about Ionians (or Yunan) people.. we still call ourselves today like that in Greece
Rodigo Duterte The Chinese are farming people and the Huns in northern China are Mongolian and so on. They are the nomads. They live on the grasslands and have the best horses. The Han Dynasty must fight the Xiongnu. There must be good horses, and the farming countries cannot cultivate. A good war horse, when I heard that Dawan State has a thousand miles of bloody BMW, some people have proposed to introduce a sweaty BMW!
I think that killing the embassator was the excuse for war. Because I think that Ancient Chinese were saying that " none should kill an embassador even at war". Correct me if I am wrong ... By the way I love Chinese history. Offers too much knowledge and it is very interesting to learn about a very different civilization. Much love from a guy who's ancestors were the owners of those horses 👌
You are wrong on the regard that the Han planned to wage war against the greco city from the start, in fact the Han initially tried to trade gold for their horses and that was the sole reason why the envoy of Han brought TONs of golds with him when travelled to the city but somehow he was killed and of course the golds brought with him never return either and THAT make the Han emperor believed that he was frecking outright ROBBED of his golds like a fool and get nothing in return hence he got furious and decided to wage war.
@@nefelovamon The envoy carried gold and a 1:1 sized golden horse in exchange of horses. Just for sake of greed and stupid, the king of Alexandaria thought it will be too for Han far to project its forces (as it is 2000 kilometers away form Han,not along the Gobi desert). So he killed the envoy take the gold and...... then suffer the consequence.
@@nefelovamon It's about honor not just the horses. As for human life, those men sent were prisoners, criminals, fighting is the only chance to not be executed.
Probably is an excuse. The whole "killing the ambassador" part is only recorded in Chinese history not anywhere else. Thus, most likely, what happened is that the Chinese did ask to buy the horses, but was refused. Han Emperor needed a good excuse to take the horses, so he waged war in the name of "they killed my ambassador"
China does have this saying.（两军交战不斩来使） What China needs is horses. Barter or purchase is the best result. Otherwise, it's not a good idea to attack a country far away
That last part about the Greek Buddhists being the first to make anthropomorphic statues of the buddha is fascinating. Is it possible to get a link to more information about that?
@@HimanshuSingh-ce8tf exactly. The greek buddha became the largest stream in Asia for 1000 years until the spread of islam in 7th century AD. Even the famous Bamiyan buddhas are in the Greek gandaharan Buddha style.
FYI: When Zhang Qian was returning to china after the failed alliance he was captured by Xiongnu, AGAIN! The Xiongnu were impressed by his courage and decided not to kill him, which enabled him to escape, AGAIN!
Daisy Wong The mongols are not descendants of the Xiongnu, The huns who later emerged in Europe, who are now hungarians, were descendants of the Xiongnu.
I'm actually amazed this Channel has touched so many topics that are rarely known, like the Battle of Talas and this War of the Heavenly horses. I had no idea China pushed that far west, it's pretty much never talked about in western history. It's made me insanely excited for Total War Three Kingdoms
This event made the silk road happen. Since then, Wu emporer ordered immigrations to the west (Xinjiang nowadays) The immigrants were farmers during peace but would also serve as soldiers during war when there is need to protect the silk road traders.
@@LuisAldamiz Shakespeare used plenty of figurative language in his writings. That the original picture imagined does not completely fit my own interpretation of it in this situation is of little importance. The situation here is that the Greeks by refusing to sell their horses have to pay for it with their kingdom. Therefore, their kingdom for a horse.
@@LuisAldamiz Are you serious with this? It baffles me how you keep looking at this from the wrong perspective. I am NOT viewing the situation from the perspective of the Emperor, but that of the Greek king. Since you seem keen on comparing this to the Shakespearean scene I hope you appreciate the king to king comparison... When the king had the envoy killed, he had unwittingly set in motion his own death. And it is there in which the poetic justice lies. Also it was Richard III, not Henry III, honest mistake I'm sure.
The interesting thing is this word are actualy made of two word from turkic language Fer/Ter meaning sweat and ghana/qana meaning blood or literally bleeding off
As a practitioner of a Greek philosophy (Stoicism) who lives in China, and is a huge fan of military history, I'd like to thank you for making a video specifically for me. Great start to my day over here in the Middle Kingdom. This tale will be on my lips all day!
Being Greek myself, I consider it an honour to even being defeated in war by the Chinese people, a great and powerful ancient civilization along with the other major ones, India and Iran! The worthiness of the winner gives value to the defeated as we Greeks say. The interactions between our cultures go back thousands of years into prehistory, at the age of the Two Dragons as we called it. There was a time in China's imperial past when the emperor considered himself divine ruler of half the globe and only recognized the Roman emperor of the east (Basileus after Heraclius) as the only other legitimate ruler of the rest of the world! Fun fact, if you haven't already visited the forbidden city, take a moment and look at the symbols covering the buildings, gates, even clothing! Ring any bells? Also, the Chinese language is not too difficult to learn, only the tones perplex it. I've been learning Mandarin Chinese for the past two years and I'm in love with it!
@@umerjavednisar It's one thing to be defeated in battle by a worthy and civilised opponent, that during the aftermath of the war and later on, he will respect the people inhabiting an occupied land (if an occupation even takes place, which for the current subject of the Chinese - Grecobactrians it did not) and another thing entirely to butcher, destroy and genocide every aspect of the lives of the conquered. That is the distinction I'm trying to make, why should the Turks be any different from us, the Chinese or anyone else? Not to say there haven't been atrocities but, again, the value of the victor gives honour to the defeated, so in your case take it as you wish by judging your own history yourself. It doesn't even matter what I think, you're asking the wrong question and to the wrong individual. Cheers!
@@UPHENOS Just so you know, I am not Turkish although I have heard that the Greeks hate the Turks. Just wanted to see if that is true. As for the Chinese, what civilised culture are you talking about? Their history is full of massacres and destruction as well. Even to this day they are killing and torturing people in their Eastern Xinjiang province, including children.
People talking about "a war for horses?? wtf???" Greece has gone to war for 1 Woman in the Trojan War, for a dog with Bulgaria after WW2, for a rock that 50 rabbits live on with Turkey, war with Russia (occupying Creamea) just to say thanks to Britain, Athens to war because someone did not pick a side (Mylos), and the entire planet into WW1 because nobody suggested "Hey lets sit on a table and discuss this before it turns into... WOPA" My point is... war for warhorses... seems preety legit to me!
Han China needed horses to counter the Xiongnu nomads. The Ferghana horses were the best known to China. Moreover, the war was not only about horses. If the Han had let Ferghana get away with insulting their envoys, the Xiongnu would have likely capitalized on this to rid Han influence from the Tarim basin.
So glad this channel is growing fast. I've been a subscriber for a long time, and seeing more and more people get interested with history brings tears of joy to my eyes.
Hahaha! u are so funny,but l have to say he was also a man with loyalty and honor, and we should respect anyone like this! Actually, l don't think Chinese was smart enough, because they did't learn the advanced technology in DaWan. Just because they're so proud about their own civilization at that time, which definitely a great lose for ancient Chinese empire
- You won't give me supplies? You just wait until the boss hears about this! - Boohoo, go back and cry to yer big boss man... - I'm back! With double the army! - Oh....
Great video. I'm from Greece and especially from Thessaly. The horses Alexander the Great used were from this region. The famous Thessaly cavalry. His own horse Voukefalas was one of these of course. I suppose they are the same kind of horses you talking here in this video.
Maybe, but maybe not. The part of the world that Greco-Bactria inhabited, is known for the prowess of their horses and cavalry. Horses were first domesticated around there actually. So it’s just as possible that these were a native breed of horses. But I cant say for sure.
@@MerkhVision if it was really a local breed, then the Chinese should already know about these horses. why be so impressed by something they already knew? 🤔
The so called heavenly horses (known in Chinese at the time as 大宛马 - great Ionian horse, but nowadays as 汗血马 - blood-sweating horse, is believed to refer to the Turkoman horse, predecessor of the modern Akhal-Teke) As for Bucephalus (Voukefalas), many historians do indeed stipulate this horse might have been a horse imported from the region of modernday Turkmenistan, but back then it was the Scythians and Parthians who bred and favored these horses. The horse was imported and raised at the Thessalonian stables, and was reportedly the best of their stock.
The story goes the Chinese emperor sent as payment for the horses one life sized horse statue made of solid gold. The Bactians killed the envoy and kept the statue, thus triggering the War of the Heavenly Horses. It should also be said that these horses are thought to be the ancestors of the modern Akhal Teke breed of Turkmenistan. In those days an outstanding breed of horses is like a superior fighter jet. Hence the immense Chinese interest in them.
Missing one very important point. When Zhang Qian returned to ChangAn, he reported that Chinese goods particularly silk was traded in Central Asia and very lucrative. He wonder how these goods ended up there. It turned out those heavy tributes paid by the Han court to XiongNu were sold to Central Asian traders particularly the Songdians who were also the middle men in selling these silk to Persians until it reached Rome. So this report made the Han Court to open trade to these Central Asian traders. Thus those military garrison in the middle of desert was to protect the traders from raiders and also to collect taxes and thus became the Silk Road. This continued over the centuries and now being revived as the One Belt, One road initiative by China.
Yes. The romans even know about the chinese. But thanks to the parthians they couln't expand western of the Euphrat. So that products of china were very expansive and only possesed by the richest of the rich. And also a chinese expedition came long before Alexander was borb till the black see, where at the time the first greek colonies were established.
I forgot which exhibition, but I have seen Roman coins and glassware from Chinese excavations (I suppose 2nd or 3rd century AD, but my memory is failing).
The Imperial Romans and Chinese were aware of each other's existence through the silk road, and both peoples occasionally sent diplomats and merchants to travel there through the silk road
6:21 "However we were unsure what happened next", well it's been documented quite well what happened actually: Emperor Wu sent an envoy carrying a thousand pounds of gold and a statue of horse made of gold to Dayuan looking to acquire their fine horses. However, the king of Dayuan refused, citing that he treasured his horses too much to give them up, and claiming that due to the great distance between his kingdom and Han, there is no way the Han could take his horses even if they wanted to [send out a military expedition and take them by force]. The Han diplomat replied rudely, leading to the Dayuan king killing him, and seizing his gold. Original text from the Book of Han (written in the 1st century AD by a Han historian) below: 上遣使者持千金及金馬，以請宛善馬。宛王以漢絕遠，大兵不能至，愛其寶馬不肯與。漢使妄言，宛遂攻殺漢使，取其財物。
@@jpb2366 It was written by a historical recorder at that time. That historian maintained his neutrality ，So he made the minister unhappy at the time, and the minister told the emperor to kill him and burn down his writings. But the emperor at the time was a very enlightened, well-informed man, and in the end the Emperor did not kill him and let his writings circulate. Every Chinese knows that the historical recorder is called Sima Qian, and he has influenced almost all of China's later historical recorders . And the emperor was called Emperor Wu of Han , he was a great emperor, and it was he defeated the xiongnu .Why are we called Han ? It was because of this dynasty and this emperor.
Could you cover the Indo-Greeks? There were even little envoys in my home country Sri Lanka. To this day the name for Greeks in my language is "Yonya" which comes from "Ionia" ;)
@@PrimeTime350 that's your hubris speaking. Why would Indians want to be anglo or greek only insecure ones would want so those who are rightly educated in history would know Indians were ahead of greeks in many respect also they managed to preserve their ancient heritage unlike greeks.
5 лет назад
@@NitzVision Lol, noooooo it was an exchange, but many mathematical advances, just look for pithagoras, were made by the greeks themselves.
yea me too, if back when u was in schools teacher use total war as visual aid would be great.. i am 27 now and looking at this video encouraged me to history. 😂👍
@@thetitanian7360 actually they are I'm the proof and meiteii community of Manipur who worship chinese dragon and mizo people have very same ancestry even in culture and religious practices like covering rice to the dead etc..and manny festivals similarly we are not austroasiatic we are mongolian race ...our language is tibeto burmese yes....but have nothing genenon connection with tai people....
actual, this war is much harder than the description: tens of thousands of soldiers march 2000 kilometers, no water, the oasis can only supply few foods. the largest oasis is Qiuci(named Ku che now), have 50, 000 citizen, most of the oasis have several thousand people.
@Daisy Wong indeed, all the Hui zu(actually, they are han chinese who are became muslin) live in xinjiang are called 'dong gan' by uygur. maybe you need to read more history about the revolt which happened in Shan xi province, in 1862. there is no continuous oasis even had few people even now. you can drive more than 200 kilometers with seen any green. 你说的没错，回族是个49年之后认定的名族，之前都是被认定为信仰伊斯兰的汉族，新疆的维吾尔族人叫他们东干人，新疆的东干人很多都是在1862年的甘陕回乱（同治回乱）时期，被左宗棠击败，一路逃亡到新疆和中亚的。 我读过古兰经（穆斯林的圣经），对照的经文的注解，自认为比绝大多数回族都了解这个宗教。 新疆北部的草原是不连续的，过了嘉峪关，巴里坤草原是一片，再往西就是米泉那一带或者南边一点的吐鲁番盆地，中间相隔一千公里左右，然后再向西七百公里左右就到了伊犁河谷，中间还是戈壁荒漠，哪怕到了上个世纪的50年代，交通都是很不方便的，当然现在有了高铁，情况有了大的改变。 就算是汉朝，天山北麓也都是人烟稀少，可以参考汉书，就算是大国，诸如龟兹（qiu ci ，现在的库车县）也只有10万的人口，而且这个国家在天山南麓。其他小国，如且末，只有一千多人。这个国家在塔克拉玛干沙漠南麓，靠近昆仑山和藏北高原。与之相反，天山北麓倒是没有什么国家，，除了乌孙，这个靠近大宛，在伊犁河谷一带。 视频里面描述的汗血宝马今天依然存在，可以在土库曼斯坦找得到。 这个视频其实没有很着重的描述一个事实：在这样的冷兵器时代，孤军深入五六千公里，投送一支部队，沿途是少许绿洲国家而且非常的不友好，基本无法得到补给，翻越沙漠戈壁这样的无人区，高山（天山山脉）和兴都库什山（帕米尔高原），到了现在的中亚地区，围城进攻并且逼迫敌人投降，达到了自己的战略目的然后回国。在冷兵器时代，这个星球上有多少国家的军队能做得到？
The war wasn't due to the horses, It's because those greeks thought they had the balls to kill the envoy of the might Han empire and ended getting smashed
The Chinese kind of kept up their contact with the west, and more specifically both the Roman Empire and later the Eastern Roman Empire. The Chinese themselves referred to Rome as Daqin~ or Great Qin, as you have covered in your videos before. And they also referred to the later Eastern Romans, or the Byzantines as Fu lin 拂菻. During which many Nestorian Christians of the Syriac Branch came from both the overland and maritime Silk Roads to China to preach Christianity. By the time of the Tang dynasty in early 7th century, Emperor Taizong of Tang received ambassadors from the Byzantine Empire bearing gifts. It seems because both empires bordered the once mighty Gokturk Khaganate (the equivalent of the Mongol Empire of that time) and both experienced clashes with the newly risen Islamic Caliphates that the Byzantines sought out the Tang to probe for some sort of relations.
@@Dragons_Armory not fated to meet but Khalid died early et al, there's a canibal ism meme of a battle related to hoi4 but the 4 occupations chivalry instances in wiki is also there 士農工商 still not as mysterious as the mountain that hold the ma gog or the temple of yew even tho they could share they just do brotherly wahr even when theyre from the same lang family
@@alexlo7708China has won nearly ten times and lost only once, and this was despite the disadvantages of numbers, transportation, and traitors. Any questions?
Like many others I just want to say a big thanks to all the works you put in these videos. Content is both informative, interesting, new and entertaining.
This story makes a great youtube story but hardly an epic enough tale for a full movie. Maybe it could be the start of a movie to introduce the story of the silk road.
These Baktrian videos are great, and - tangent - thank you for having merch that isn't simply your brand slathered onto things. Looking forward to wearing the Vergina Sun shirt I just ordered.
Wow the greeks with their culture and mythologies influenced most of the ancient world from Asia to North Africa and even Arabia and Italy. Greetings to Greece from a moroccan guy.
I thought greek presence in Central Asia and Khorasan was older than Alexander the Great. When Alexander conquered Khorasan, greeks were already a thing in there. Persian empire used to settle captured greeks to there.
@@KingsandGenerals Ahhhh I cant not come back anyway. Who else is going to explain completely useless battles to me when I'm supposed to be studying or on the loo?
How China managed to be united as a country for so long is remarkable. I know they split up into warring states a few times but always remain intact at the end. They are comparable in power and wealth to the Roman Empire at their height, entire Western Europe until the turn of 19th century and now with America
it's probably the land. majority of china are plains so people are more connected compared to the dense forests and mountains of europe which promoted isolation.
"Who ever dare to violate under the name of our great Han, no matter how far it is we will pursue and hunt them down". Han General Chen Tang said after he conquered modern Kazakhstan and defeat the Hun. 犯我強漢者 雖遠必誅 ----陳湯
Well Greek civilization are till this day the most influential civilization on the planet, aside from being the foundation of the western world, which today dominates 60% of the world. Much of our sciences all the way up to our way of thinking, language, philosophy and so on and so comes from Greece. And aside from that, When Alexander the Great conquered all the way till India, he left a 400 year long lasting Greek kingdom in what is now Afghanistan and parts of Pakistan/India, which profoundly influenced Asia in many ways Greek civilization had massive influences on astronomy, coinage system, arts, jewelry, science, architecture, stone cutting techniques, theater and much more on these regions. Even the Buddha on of the most prominent Asian symbols has been first in the beginning made by the Greeks and hold a prominent influence throughout Asia. The Greek Gandaharan Buddha style, was for 1000 years the largest stream in Asia. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhism en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhist_art en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhist_monasticism Greek arts has been often regarded thus as the catalyst to Asian arts. Even today the National Dance of Afghanistan today is a Greek Pyrhgian dance , is an Ancient Greek Dance of the Pyrrhic Group and to this that is exactly the same up to even the exact Same clothing. The Attan was dedicated to the Greek goddess athena. islamoblog.blogspot.nl/2009/08/ancient-greek-origins-of-pashtuns-attan.html en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khattak_dance These are again merely samples of influences of the almost infinite list of Greek influences throughout the world, among which most people never knew about. *Some more additional info to all that:* - British Museum: Afghanistan: The lasting Legacy of Alexander the Great in Afghanistan: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-b9mBLNOr8rw.html - There are even video's by Afghans themselves about Greco bactrian cities, Afghanistan. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-5tka9TFyWIw.html - Hellenism in the EastL Indo-Greeks and the Thousand cities of Bactria: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-aAb7wF5bEnM.html -Greco-Bactrian Kingdom: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Bactrian_Kingdom "The Greco-Bactrian Kingdom was - along with the Indo-Greek Kingdom - the easternmost part of the Hellenistic world, covering Bactria and Sogdiana in Central Asia" It shows all the rulers in detail, the legacy, the culture and everything else. Below the page with many sources for your uneducated low IQ redundancy to read into -Greco-Bactrian Kingdom: www.cemml.colostate.edu/cultural/09476/afgh02-06enl.html with numerous evidences of Greek civilization -Indo Greek: www.cemml.colostate.edu/cultural/09476/afgh02-07enl.html with numerous evidences of Greek civilization -Eucratids www.ancient.eu/eucratid/ -Greek-Indo kingdom www.ancient.eu/Indo-Greek/ -Greco-Bactrian Kingdom www.ancient.eu/Greco-Bactria/ -The Ecclectica in Afghanistan: ecclectica.brandonu.ca/issues/2002/1/issigonis.asp Kalash / Nuristani Descendants -Nuristan, Kalash descendants: edo-makedonia.pblogs.gr/2007/11/144762.html - www.theguardian.com/culture/2011/feb/27/afghanistan-crossroads-british-museum Some uneducated Afghans disrespectful of Greece civilization, even though it was their greatest age - www.afghanland.com/history/greek.html "Invasion of Alexander brought with it many of Greece’s artists and great thinkers and left a great influence amongst the people of Afghanistan and caused a irreversible damage to the ancient culture and traditions of Afghan people. Many Greek soldiers married afghan women and brought children, thus the Greek blood runs deep amongst people of Afghanistan. This fusion between Afghans and Greeks established a new unique culture in Afghanistan and more and more distanced itself from Greece." Hadda, Afghanistan: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadda,_Afghanistan : "Haḍḍa (Pashto: هډه) is a Greco-Buddhist archeological site located in the ancient region of Gandhara, ten kilometers south of the city of Jalalabad, in the Nangarhar Province of eastern Afghanistan. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirkap "The city of Sirkap was built by the Greco-Bactrian king Demetrius after he invaded ancient India around 180 BC"
@@CirosKhan I just responded to your question,it didn't have any arrogance in it,im sorry you saw it that way.The achievements of my ancenstors and kin are not my own,but still i allow myself to feel happy and proud of them.But maybe I answered that way because I felt your question mocking or in a bad vibe.If you didn't then again,i am sorry.
@@BraydenLondon88 Where did you get that from? You don't need to be extremely skilled to form a disciplined battle line, especially if China uses what to the Greeks would be future weapons, Europe would not see mass uses of halberds, pikes and crossbows until the high middle ages, a thousand year later, and aren't Greeks a citizen militia? You don't even have standardized equipment, and you think you can fight China? While it is true that Chinese armies were very large, where did you get that they were worse equipped? Chinese iron lamellar is superior to anything the Spartans would have. Chinese armies uses conscripts yes, but Chinese conscripts train for an entire year. Greek ranged troops, javelins and slings? Oh my god, the surprise they will see when Chinese crossbow bolts just fly through their tiny shields. And don't let me even start on the Greek "Calvary" at the time, or do you mean mounted infantry. Just because we get our asses spanked by Mongolians doesn't mean we suck. Greek strength cannot even be compared to the Mongolians, or China, the Spartans would be fucked in the ass in a open field battle by the Persians too, this is the exact reason why no one found it difficult to defend in a mountain pass.
@@peiranzhang4283 oh I was talking about modern times but back then Greece could have beat them back because they have done it with countless other enemies and China had trouble fighting the guns and mongols and the Greeks fought the scythians who were similar plus they had better equipment as you needed to have a pike and shield to join a milita and the milita were trained plus there were different greek kingdoms so a Macedonian was different than a spartan but I get your point as the Chinese were excellent fighters
Fast forward 2000 years and Chinese money is pumping into the Greek economy, its interesting how things turn out. Another exceptional video, and this one deserves praise especially on a subject hardly any one knows about.
People Evil yeah comunism is so much better the eu doesn’t force the greeks to take them in look at (Poland Hungary) also you know what a debt trap is right? The greeks will suffer if china takes over the majority of the economy
Li Guangli: "Our campaign was seriously compromised by marching through an inhospitable desert. Should we find a way to improve our logistics and diplomatic relations with local people?" Emperor: "Nah, more soldiers it is." I'm not sure which is crazier; that he thought that would work, or that it actually worked.
@@xethan3373 I understand that was the plan, but it's just the most glaring sign that the emperor didn't think this through. If he had, he might have considered a few other things; namely: 1. They already know you're coming. 2. They've beaten the Chinese before. (So much for "no martial prowess" and "being afraid of fighting.") 3. Why are we fighting this war? (Which was apparently so important, that the emperor himself couldn't be bothered to lead the expedition.) 4. Even with supplies from the local tribes, the Chinese STILL lost half their army to exposure along the way. (Which means either way, someone's logistics game was NOT on point) 5. The Chinese had previously observed Bactria's tendency towards commerce and trade. Did it occur to them at any time to offer to BUY the horses instead of simply taking them as tribute? (I seriously doubt that a price for the horses couldn't have been negotiated or an arrangement reached, especially given Bactria's history of also suffering predation by nomadic tribes to their North.) 6. How will they fight back? (Since they prize their horses so much, it's not unreasonable to expect them to use them in some form of guerilla warfare, or even to use the mountainous terrain to their advantage against a larger Chinese army.) 7. Where is the REAL enemy? (Remember, this all started because the Chinese imperial court wanted to wage total war on the Xiongnu, which apparently means they have to march WAAAAAAY out to the west and attempt to wage war on people that had NOTHING to do with their original goal, effectively wasting time, resources, and men while the real threat was very much alive right next-door to the North. Athens called, they want their bad military ideas back.) 8. What will the soldiers bring back with them? (Diseases, foreign ideas/cultures, slaves that will revolt at the first opportunity; all of these things are possible.) Everything about the second expedition has military disaster written all over it. The fact that it wasn't might as well be attributed to dumb luck if not to the leadership of Li Guangli (NOT the emperor, who it should be remembered, came up with this plan), and even then, for what the Chinese actually gained from this war, it could still be considered as such. Remember, the Chinese "victory" resulted in them occupying the Tarim Basin, which again, was not even their original plan. They also received 3,000 Bactrian horses, which I'm sure is a good compensation for the 3,000+ horses and tens of thousands of infantry they lost in the war.
@@wargriffin5 what you said make sense. but we dont know the details of the planning and decision making because of scarce historic records. Li Guangli later led a plot to overthrow the heir of Han emperor. when emperor discovered the plot, Li surrendered to Xiongnu with his army. the emperor killed his whole family in capital. that may be the reason why there is so little historic records about him and the expedition. it is said the Han offered Dayuan a golden statue of a life-sized horse in exchange for their heavenly horses. Dayuan killed the Han envoy and kept the statue. punishment for Dayuan at any cost would be the priority for the emperor.
@@xethan3373 You're right, we don't know a lot about the planning process, but couldn't it be heavily inferred from the results that the plans were inadequate since they almost lost two armies before they even arrived (much less succeeded)? Also, unless I've missed something, my understanding was that the Chinese imperial government was heavily bureaucratic, meaning that there were very few people who could have challenged the emperor's plan and even fewer who would have since they were all appointed to their position by the emperor's government. Meaning that the emperor was, in either case, ultimately responsible for approving any plans, and the ultimate responsibility for failure(or a pyrrhic victory) would lie with him. As for punishing the Dayuan, the imperial court may need to get it's priorities straight. For instance, could you imagine the consequences if only one of the primary Xiongnu tribes had learned that the Han emperor was sending tens of thousands of soldiers/cavalry across a desert and over mountains to God-knows-where? I doubt they would've given it a second thought before they were on their way to the border. A bruised ego is one thing, a burning capitol is quite another. I'm not saying the emperor should've forgotten about it (murdering an envoy is still a serious issue), I'm saying that maybe he could've come back to that grudge later, after the Xiongnu were dealt with. Nonetheless, the fact remains that, this time at least, the emperor rolled the dice and profited from it.
It's about pride. "Who ever dare to violate under the name of our great Han, no matter how far it is we will pursue and hunt them down". Han General Chen Tang said after he conquered modern Kazakhstan and defeat the Hun. 犯我強漢者 雖遠必誅 ----陳湯
English it’s on my old laptop so unfortunately I lost it I focused on trade between Rome and China but I ended up focusing almost a third of the paper on the bactrians and the yuezhi. The yuezhi are pretty interesting they end up assimilating Greek and afghan cultural influences, to top it all off many of them eventually become Hindu so you end up with temples to Krishna and Vishnu in cities using coinage depicting steppe Kings with Greek writing on them.
I always wanted to know how the Han gained control of the Tarim basin. Excellent content. You could look to do a video on the later war between the one-time Tibetan Empire and the Chinese.
James Bone massacred and killed out one of the kingdom who refuse to provide the supply and refuse to admit the dominance of HAn in the Tarim basin.and the rest surrender.....
Panzerker The Western Protectorate has been nerfed pretty hard with the patch that came along with Holy Fury. Not nearly as aggressive and expansionist as they were previously.
@@alperenbaser5595 it's the other way around, even the Chinese scripture is a copy of ancient Greek "Linear A"...read history/archaiology/anthropology e.t.c.... For example, the war of Atlantis, according to ancient Greek philosopher Plato and also to Egyptian scripts, took place around 11.000 years ago and the Greeks won...at that time, the Greeks had a great civilization which was a historical continuecy of a much archaic world named "Lemuria". In all these periods, Chinese didn't even exist yet. Also archaiologists discovered the most ancient anthropomorphic fossil in Greece which is around 7.000.000 million years old. Lastly, the genetic scientists discovered that the Greek DNA and language, are the anciest of all with a great chronological distance from the existence of every other human being. The white race is actually the one that has the Greek DNA as it's basis, and that's why the USA mostly has taken and takes away all the ancient Greek bone fossils that are found in archaiological discoveries, plus, only the archaiological bones that are from Greece are restricted by an international regulation to be placed in the global DNA fossil data. There's even a USA interstate genetical organization which is experimenting among other things on creating an ancient Spartan soldier through the stolen Greek bone fossils.
I don't think it's too small. It doesn't have the endurance of Mongol horses because they were not running freely as on the grassland. The Mongolian breed is even smaller than some of the other breeds in China.
@@dongf2618 The Xiongnu didn't use Mongol horses. Theirs were bigger. The Mongolian breed came about due to the "democratization" of horse-raising in the steppes resulting from the collapse of the Gokturk Khaganate. Before this the various khaganates starting from the Xiongnu were actually more organized and they bred special warhorses or bought them from what is today the 'stans and northern India. The collapse of the Gokturk Khaganate removed the nomadic states' ability to organize massive horse breeding programs. Their former subject peoples, especially in the eastern steppes, started breeding the horses best suited to their way of life. That's how the Mongol horses came about much later on. The Mongols themselves later prized horses taken from their Uighur and Tibetan (XiXia) subjects that were descended from the original northern nomads' warhorses.
@@alanOHALAN bigger horses are also bigger arrow targets too..but i think the european knights favored the bigger horses as they like to put armor on them.
@@Vazel well chinese also have the same concept. The nuetral word for foreigner in mandarin is created in 19th century, before that as some one is not chinese, then he or she is represented as barbarian in chinese language. Actually in classic mandarin, the opposite word for chinese is actually barbarian.
@@上下左右-k7k 'Barbarian' is derived from the ancient Greek word 'bárbaros', meaning babbler, and was used to describe people from non-Greek speaking countries such as Persia and Egypt, who, to Greek ears, sounded like they were make unintelligible sounds (ba-ba-ba). The word 'Barbarian' was invented in ancient Greece before the Greco - Persian wars which took place in 500 BC!
@@Vazel well nearly 4000 years ago, the shang dynasty already call non-chinese people barbarian, in classic mandarin there are nearly 50 ways to call non-chinese as barbarians, those words all come from different dynasties...in old chinese mind, since china is the center of world, then obviously people out of the center of world are barbarians..
同为文明古国之后，长安人期待与希腊及西方各国友好往来，千秋万世. As a descendant of chang'an of china, i wish for peace and prosperity for and with greece and other western nations to the end of time.
Og os Danskere og resten af Skandinavien som efterkommere af den vikinger ønsker alle Asiens folk velstand og lykke. And us Danes and the rest of Scandinavia as descendants of the vikings wish all the people of Asia prosperity and good luck.
@@musAKulture Yes, you say that now, but when China has enough tanks, SAMs, AI controlled mechanized infantry and drone airforce to go with its already fastest growing Navy in the world, we will see how it deals with those that it perceives as its rivals, we'll see how willing they are to extend the hand of diplomacy over the fist of war. Even now we see how they handle the disputed islands in their back yard ---the South China Sea, including the Paracel Islands, the Pratas Islands, Macclesfield Bank, Scarborough Shoal and the Spratly Islands which are contested by no less than half a dozen countries, Taiwan, Vietnam, Japan, Malaysia and the Philippines to name a few. China the Quiet Empire
But this happened more than three hundreds years before three kingdoms period, the time order is like: West Han--->East Han--->Three Kingdoms, and this happened in West Han.
