The Guardian of Forever in Star Trek Discovery vs TOS vs TNG 

its definitely hilarious

he’s sooo offended 😂

I do like that the guardian was a sass master from the get go...

Michael Burnham: “Why should I believe you? _You're Hitler!”_

#this

Poor Michael, cursed by his own hubris.

You think the narrator might'mph sh'dd sh'''mthing or maybe he's gomngjsdfgj in his mouth. In either case, he probmmghgg something about... The Scary Door.

Now I think "The Twilight Zone" came into the Trek universe...lol

He's half-human, after all...acting a little perturbed is to be expected.

Vulcans do have emotions

Having an Ego is a human trait. Vulcan's (even a well trained half Vulcan) should know better then to react in that manner.

@@KnowTrentTimoy : So is emotionalism Trent. Can't tell you how many times you could see Sarek bristle a bit. I think the point is that Vulcans on the whole suppress these traits... due to their mental commitments and devotion to the Vulcan way that originated with Surak. It doesn't mean that they don't have them deep down inside. I think Leonard played Spock perfectly in this scene! ☞ upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/74/Surak3.jpg

@@KnowTrentTimoy : Also, how is it that you know better what is appropriate for a Vulcan than Leonard Nimoy?

The newspaper in Disco has an article about the Tkon empire. They may be trying to connect them.

@@johnh7727 but the back of the same newspaper also had an advertisement for Edith Keeler's Twenty-First Street Mission, "Let me help!"

@@johnh7727 Which would be a decent connection I guess to the possible origin of the Guardian, but man do I dislike its origin explained.

HOW DARE THEY TRY TO CONNECT THINGS!!!!!!! SJWS!!!!!

I'm not even sure this guy is the guardian. No shortage of space time manipulating nigh omnipotent beings in Star Trek. I'm waiting for Kevin Uxbridge to show up. He seems like the kind of person to destroy all dilithium, everywhere. We have no law to fit his crime.

I believe TNG was included in the video due to being similar.

In one TOS book, the Portal is heavily guarded by the Federation.

@@Bootmahoy88 TOS was still one of the most expensive tv shows to produce at that time. The issue with producing sci-fi or fantasy on any level has always been that you have to create and fabricate things that don’t exist. You just can’t go to the army surplus store and get Starfleet uniforms. Someone has to design them, and then someone else has to source the material and mend and tailor them. It’s not easy.

"You are facing fate with composure." "Actually, I'm shitting my pants."

😂😂😂

[points] Those people are that way. You can't see them because of the intervening dunes.

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain." -Litany against Fear, Dune

LETS GET THE HELLLLL OUTA HERE

Totally agree, the reimagined portal is weakly presented. This was such a well written TOS episode and the rest are unworthy

@@mgymghBORING! Too much TALK! Blah blah old white guys!

I like all the versions. Because each one belongs to each series.

The original series had actual, competent, writers.

I took his reaction as, “He is right!”

@@dangeary2134 MORE LIKE AFFIRMATION

Yeah, that face says it all. "I'm doing my best, there's no need to be nasty about it."

Southern Ontarian here. I'm glad to see Muskoka chairs surviving past the 31 st century.

And bowler hats came back in vogue, and so did smoking cigars.

Budget cuts? Its lazy, Season 1 ToS was 1/8th the budget that STD costs per episode. The Guardian of Forever literally looks like a cardboard cutout your telling me Kurtzman could only afford a Door?

It's very "Doctor Who".

@@JavierLopez-nw8kb He really wanted to make that “A-door-able” pun.

@@JavierLopez-nw8kb 1/8th? More like TOS had about $300 per episode, duct tape not included

Captain Kwirk: Where's the rest of the ship's crew? Mr. Spuck: Not in the budget. Captain Kwirk: I... wonder if Squatty... survived the "Budget Cuts"? From Star Warp'd: The Fandom Menace (The ONLY Fandom Menace in my opinion).

THIS!! You win the nerdverse today

Thought it was going to be like Mr. Wickwire from The Twilight Zone

I was thinking the same!

He looks like a cop I saw on Law and Order once...

@@danagiles5100 same actor played Ascended Anubis - George Dzundza and a good choice

Pretty much. Hollywood was always full of brainlets.

@@bravo0105 Different set of circumstances.

@Projekt Kobra lol yeah I get it in old.

And going on location someplace snowing.

I remembe reading Harlan Ellison's book on "City" and the mess that developed around it. It was never his intention that the Guardian be shaped like giant a vagina. Nor did he approve of the Greco-Roman pieces either.

@Projekt Kobra , although they were supposed to be in 1930s New York City, they were the Mayberry set from "The Andy Griffith show". At one point, Kirk and Edith Keeler pass Floyd's Barber Shop.

@@jmcenanly1 I didn't know that. Nice to still learn something new about that show. Thanks

Dicax That's exactly what I was thinking. These aren't intrepid explorers, these are assholes in space.

@@radioflyer68911 #1, Phillipa is an asshole... #2 Michael thought that the GOF was the only way to save Phillipa, which is why we see her being an asshole. Trust me, it’s happened before... Janeway does the asshole thing to save Seven, in the end it doesn’t even work anyway, and they have to take the part from Icheb. I can’t remember what the part is called, but a character being an asshole to save another character is nothing new.

@@brianfeuerman1732 Well I never liked Janeway or Voyager either. You've got a fallacious argument anyways, just because Star Trek has occasionally had poorly written scenes/characters in the past does not justify poor quality in the future.

@@augustday9483 lmao the cringe! The lengths to which discovery haters will go to construct reasons to hate it out of literally nothing is so damn embarrassing. As if these two have come as "Explorers." They are literally there for one single reason and that's to save her life. The Guardian is essentially toying and tormenting them under the most dire of circumstances and you're going to call them showing frustration and desperation an example of them being poorly written?! Good lord just go take an nap lmao.

And the guy who played that role was the guy who wrote the theme song to the Mary Tyler Moore show. His name was Lorenzo Music I think.

@@coolal19 Yep. You have the right name. I can’t remember if he wrote the MTM theme or not, though.

@@coolal19 He was also the guy who voiced Peter Venkman and Garfield, not to be confused with Bill Murray.

He was a writer and producer of the show, but he didn’t write the MTM theme song..

@@dupersuper1938 Now that you mention it, their voices sound really similar (Murray and Garfield)

As the TOS Guardian of Forever wasn't even capable of understanding what it put Kirk through, it couldn't have had a sense of humor. This is obviously a Guardian Mark II.

@@johnsavard7583 he gained a sense of humor thanks to Kirk.

Easter eggs are not enough to keep a show going. And that's all this show has to run on.

@@compmanio36 it has allot of women crying and queers, and easter eggs.

Actually, Star Dispatch is a newspaper that has been used all throughout entertainment history. You'll see it show up in lots of movies and tv shows. Same logo, same font, etc.

Ellison wrote "Guardian"? Didn't know that, good man.

What's TAS?

@@JoeMama-sy8cg 'The Animated Series'

@@Jarumo76 I see

If you can still find it on DVD, check it out. It has several episodes that continued TOS storylines.

I think that's the only time other time it's explicitly appeared in show. Not sure if this is it or just a powerful being. Space seems to be full of those.

I think he's still spending his time yelling at Roddenberry.

@@gedias1 Or suing James Cameron from beyond the grave.

Pretty sure the final version of that episode was given a re-write by D.C. Fontana, though.

@@BioGoji-zm5ph It was almost completely changed from Ellison's version, which made him eternally hate Roddenberry.

@@gedias1 Well, until the changed version won the Hugo. I've read the original version; it was unfilmable.

Given the last two years of confusion that I have seen in the youth, and country, it might have been prudent.

@@MichaelSHartman Meh, the Guardian of Forever was one of the last major Technological creations of an ancient alien species, probably the Q. I expect it to be able to take corporeal form.

"And the guys who aren't our audience are never going to watch the big reveal of the door reforming itself into the portal later on."

And that's STD for you. I know, it itches a lot and causes some discomfort, like all STDs.

Everything Kurtzman does is trashing the past. The exception is Lower Decks, which appears at first to be trashing Star Trek but actually treats Star Trek canon with reverence and respect. I suspect that Kurtzman wasn't interested in directing an animated series, so he didn't pay close attention. By now he may have caught on. We'll see what season 2 is like.

Holy shit stop fucking screeching. Like you guys complain about a bad story but don't realize that the reveal happens AT THE END.

@@ashlynnp.9609 At this point I don't care, too many insults to my intelligence and my fandom to waste time with show. I am following along third hand to watch the various jj abrams series to collapse on themselves.

@@martinrobert6709 Then you’re completely missing out. People complain about everything and apparently you’re no different. It’s a good show. Riker’s Beard is constant in Star Trek. Every first season to every Trek show sucks and it’s the same here.

So they are not leading, they are following.

With Lost it was more: wait to see what the audience says is going on, doing anything BUT that no matter how improbable or requiring ludicrous amounts of time travel/dimension hopping/flash forwards/secret societies/psychic powers/body switching/duplicate twins/reincarnation/shape-shifting imaginary ghost people/etc. for the plot to make any sense, realise after a couple of seasons they'd effectively painted themselves into a corner creatively with the monumental tangled mess of plot lines and sequential surprise plot twists that prevented any reasonable possibility of the show having a neat all-encompassing ending explaining everything after the first season, just keep going adding more layers of whimsical metaphysical plot threads for the entirety of the rest of the show's run in the hope the audience would be too busy trying to make sense of the deluge of new revelations each episode & figuring out how they could even remotely logically fit in with the other story lines rather than notice the ongoing self-perpetuating narrative train-wreak of the overall story as a whole, finally end with all the characters hanging out in a Church. But that aside and going back to your original point - the STD writers are a bunch of cheap mystery-box abusing hacks, yes.

@@jimh5491 That's one way of pointing out how absurd LOST was. I just like to say "THEY WERE DEAD THE ENTIRE TIME. THEY NEVER SURVIVED THE PLANE CRASH!".

@@James_Bee "IT WAS ALL JUST A DREAM, ZOOM OUT TO REVEAL THE ISLAND INSIDE A GIANT SNOWGLOBE, ROLL CREDITS - THE END!"

I remember. Lost was such a con job.

Exactly. This is bad Trek here. You might find this interesting. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-E51h3wdZY00.html

Just like Discovery and Picard itself.

That is what I thought too, exactly!

That is not the guardian of forever they’re not even on the same planet. I mean it’s true I guess the guardian could manifest itself wherever and whenever it wanted, but I doubt if it would manifest itself in such a way. it would be like us deciding to ditch walking upright, and go back to crawling on all fours wherever we went.

Carl from discovery is not the guardian of forever, he's more akin to being like Q or trelane

@@airrider-jk9ik I thought he was a kind of Q, but boring episode anyway jajaj

@@moe83. the episode wasnt boring

@@moe83. I was thinking Q as well... but maybe they are all Q. unlike the Q from TNG, the other Q dont seem to get involved just for fun. maybe some just wait and see what mortals do with power, like the guardian of forever? This one seems to make itself known, but wait to see if they would show up. wonder if there were any eps with the Q continuum that showed them reading a paper? edit: Didnt Q send Picard back in time to prevent himself from getting stabbed in the heart, avoiding the need to get a bionic heart? All to teach him that he needed to be that reckless in order to BE the captain? kind of parallel to this?

You do know the TNG episode was not about the Guardian of Forever, they never featured it in TNG. In the novels, the Guardian was created by the Q, before they ascended into godhood/higher plane, so it makes sense that it has snark, bad puns, and ultimately a well-meaning desire to help others, even if it's an ass about it. To me, the Q, especially de Lancie, are like older siblings, who throw their ability and capabilities at the younger races, but they are well meaning in most part, trying to improve younger races through trials and self-examination (Sort of like a Trekkian version of Vorlons/Shadows from Babylon 5). Everything Q has done so far in the shows were to teach lessons, especially introducing the Borg early enough with real stakes for Picard/crew to face them.

Yes, it does. And I say that as a millennial. I hate my generation, honestly.

Right. Or the original adventure. meselectronics.net/advent/ (something I picked up). :)

Except, of course, the fact that he is literally the *Guardian* of Forever, not a simple door that has to hide. And would a "temporal" war even have a beginning and end? The writing is atrocious.

@@Idazmi7 You misunderstand what he is. He is the Guardian of Forever in the same sense that your door is the guardian of your room. Yeah sure it looks nice and all to keep someone out, but if someone really wanted in your room, do you think a door is gonna be much of a deterrent? Its the same with the Guardian of Forever. He's a sentient portal who doesn't want to be used anymore, so its not atrocious writing that he hid. And yeah, a temporal war would have a beginning and end. Its just not in chronological order.

@@adrianvine7653 I'm not misunderstanding anything. When the Enterprise first encountered it, they flew through time-shifting waves that actually shook the ship and tossed it out of sync with normal time. See, the Guardian of Forever itself claims to exist in all of time and history, having neither beginning nor end, nor _location_ in any traditional sense. It is able to both observe and affect time on a galactic scale, at _least._ It is *_not_* just a door.

@@Idazmi7 Whatever your first paragraph is meant to explain, it went right over my head, so I'm sorry if that was meant to explain something I'm going to talk about. And it does have a physical location, like any sentient being. And, yeah, it is a just a door. A very fancy door that exists across all of space and time and loves time travel and stuff, but it is still a door to anywhere you want to go. And, like any sentient being, it doesn't like being used and abused so it moved away.

@@adrianvine7653 _"Whatever your first paragraph is meant to explain, it went right over my head, so I'm sorry if that was meant to explain something I'm going to talk about."_ Which is exactly why you aren't qualified to be discussing the Guardian of Forever in any way, shape or form. Long story short, *it can change the flow of time without anyone entering it's door. FROM LIGHTYEARS AWAY.*

They do embody humans understanding of creation.

It was created by the Q after all, so what do you expect?

And the writing and characters too!

I disagree. When CGI can fill an entire Roman Colosseum with people, flashy FX distract from, not add to the story. In this case, rather than going all out, duplicating something from 60 years ago, they chose ... simplicity

@@jkcarroll You misspelled "cheapness" ;p

Ehh.... no, the special effects from 60 years ago still look like campy high school theater crap. No amount of nostalgia is going to fix that. The story made it possible for us to ignore it is all. And this portal isn't even substantially different than the original, it's just another kind of doorway with nothing behind it tied to some optical compositing. Oh, there's snow behind it instead of some spare Greco-Roman and rock props from who knows what other show. Oh, there's a door in the doorjamb instead of it being an empty ring. Oh, it doesn't have disco lights. Big deal. It's still basically the same thing. It's just that "Adam West's Batman" doesn't work as a visual style in 2020. Tastes change. That's just part of life. In fact I'll bet real money that if I went back in time and swapped the two sets, you'd prefer the door with the guy.

@@ErickC The “new” guardian looks more like cheap high school crap. Oh look, we’ve got a doorway, and not a special doorway that would actually require effort to make, we’ve got a standard doorway that was probably lying around the prop room. And oh you didn’t bother animating it or anything, you just put a person next to it to provide the lines, like you couldn’t even be bothered with a microphone. About the only thing that looks modern about it is the snow, and that’s a standard CG effect.

Why would the shut down a good star trek show

@@airrider-jk9ik you’d need a good Star Trek show to answer that question.

@@cookingwithjesus we already have 3 currently running, discovery, picard and lower decks, so yeah, 3 good shows to answer that question

@@airrider-jk9ik Lower Decks is a definite maybe, the rest should be hauled off as garbage.

@@jimh472 nah, cause theyre all good

Starballs: Ladies with Schwartz

The tng dude was a guardian too

@@2bituser569 He may have been a guardian of that particular planet's past civilization but he wasn't The Guardian of Forever. That was a different planet and a different civilization. If it was the same it would have given off the same temporal energy that was detected by the Enterprise in ST:TOS and would have been recognized by the Enterprise-D computer! It wasn't recognized because it was something different !! The original GOF didn't use avatars. It was just a sentient gate not a humanoid avatar !

@@2bituser569 Without looking it up, I believe he was called "Portal" by Riker at the very end. (yes. credited as Darryl Henriques - Portal")

This is true.

But the Guardian of Forever does appear in The Animated Series.

Well the race that made them could have put them all over the galaxy and there could be more advanced versions.

was that a reference to that phrase Riker's actor flubbed over and over? "It wasn't him. It was never him. It was his assistant."?

I had it in my mind there were several guardians but I can’t remember where I heard it

well the newspaper kind of confirms without question this is a or a variant of the guardian of forever.

@@nerys71 true dat

Oh look: a "member berry".

"I'll ripoff a *thousand* franchises before I let this STD die!!!"

finally, a replacement for dilithium......

The Animated Series is truer to canon than STD. More fun to watch too. Lucius was fun, and we got Captain Robert April!

I can't tell if you're sarcastic or not but Paul Guilfoyle never played the role of The Doctor.

@@ValentinaOak Whoever wrote this had a very vague idea of how the various Doctors dressed and were probably advised by their legal team to avoid copying any one Doctor too closely. Between the BBC and the estate of Harlan Ellison,This episode probably had more lawyers working on it than actual writers

@@ValentinaOak Surname looks like (it sounds like) The Doctor’s home planet.

@Tim Hands no but the guardian was a sentient machine and basically a talking portal this is a being and it’s in the gamma quadrant so definitely not the same thing, is anything it’s more likely a Q or seeing it’s the gamma quadrant a wormhole alien

I understood that, I get the reference.

Anubis is on Stargate.

Or a Q trolling.

Could be a Q, could be a random alien like Trelane or Apollo, people tend to forget there are multiple options.

I think he's just an out of work actor from the planet CSI !

@@HAGZ0483 At least when Q was trolling, he put in more effort with the costumes. Sometimes he even brought a Mariachi band. And cigars.

@@HAGZ0483 Thanks to Peter David and other material, I consider Trelane one of the Q. Also, tbf, aside from a little bit in Lower Decks, we've not seen a Q in years.

It aint the guardian

@@airrider-jk9ik I haven't and don't plan to watch Discovery. I'm just going by the title of the video. Is presume he/ she would have expertise on the subject.

@@billtree52 they do not, it was never stated in the show it was the guardian of forever, it was just stated to be a being on a planet with some kind of power, you sjould watch discovery because its actually nothing like these videos say it to be, lots of the clips are out of context and dont give the full scene or simply dont understand basic things

@@airrider-jk9ik all that aside I'm not paying for CBS All Access. I've heard enough about it from plenty of other sources to know that I will probably not enjoy it. I wish them luck though.

@@billtree52 its on netflix, if you have it, give discovery a chance, when it first got announced i was cautiously optimistic as a trekkie, but i was so glad to be proven wrong when it released. It perfectly captures the trek feel while bringing something new to it, the same it does with the roddenberry message

Michael looks like a hyena

Scared the hell out of me.👀

lmao imagine actually watching STD

If STD were Christmas, it’s tagline would be "Michael is the reason for the season".

That's actually a good theory

@@theborgqueen6891 I did. Season 1 and 2 and the first episode of S3, then I gave up on the hope of it ever improving. Discovery just have horrible writing.

Maybe you should stop being a Stan for shows with monkey sh*t writing.

He answers as simply as your level of understanding makes possible. :)

@@CommanderBalok very well observed.

Whilst it's true, we can't expect such things to remain as they are forever, as we hear the Gaurdian say, they're in hiding following the temporal wars, so it's probable something else happened

The guardian was always a spacetime gateway. A door to everywhere, everywhen. Georgiou's first jump was the guardians test of her character.

First rule of Star Trek... don't think so linearly. But seriously, a being like this would look at the timeline as though it were merely a line "already" drawn on the paper rather than as a line "being" drawn.

The Twilight Zone, and Doctor Who

Because NuTrek is ripping off everything BUT Star Trek.

It's all Star Trek.

And none of them are Star Trek.

Secret Space Program disclosure. Star Trek: Discovery seemed to be developed by AI agents on low-level computers. The reason Voyager-J and Janeway's Voyager are both Intrepid Class, probably because their SSP Database listed 'Voyager' as that way. 'rewritten by machine and new technology'. Database → Reformulation → Product of Reformulation → Filtering and Censoring to make sure it is up to 'Standard' → 'Final Product' → Star Trek: Discovery (the other STD) The reason STD & STP are so different from TOS & TNG is because their database differed from the final version of the products. Meanwhile Lower Decks either used materials from the final products or had a different database. See also SEGAGAGA's Dolmexica. pbs.twimg.com/media/Cl8rhy4UYAAoXip.jpg s.animeanime.jp/imgs/p/qC3cX52_w9YJ28j7VPltKcSgI60Yrq_oqaqr/44458.jpg Secret Space Program disclosure #SecretSpaceProgram #disclosure

And TOS isn't? Yikes

@@frankmaston Roddenberry engaged actual scientists to consult on TOS, TNG, & DS9. Guess the number engaged by the producers of STD.

Exactly. It's just sad.

I don't....I don't know how to respond to that sentence. Have I been drugged?

I don't. They tied all three things together with the simple newspaper prop. The Guardians in the original story were several giant men that moved as if standing still. The portal was a device, not The Guardians. That was changed in the last rewrite because the set department goofed up the planet city set directions. The Klingon time temple used references from Ellison's WGA first draft script. I don't think the series is brilliant or most of the acting very good, but I think the writers are paying attention to a lot of things the pop kid fans have missed, and they are changing things based on current SF style.

@@STho205 I didn't say he was wrong. He's probably right. I'm just saying that the writers didn't put anywhere near the consideration into their horrible, horrible scripts that he put into this video.

@@The_Persiflager I haven't seen this one, except his clips, but that TNG episode referenced was hokey, badly acted and dull. Not as bad as the planet of Nigerian stereotypes that wanted to buy or steal a blonde actress, but pretty bad. Ellison's script was brilliant, but it was lessened by the "Tomorrow is Yesterday" episode coming first, which was a simplistic comedy storyline. The brilliance of Ellison's story was, unlike the Butterfly Effect he borrowed from *there never was a paradox* . The opposite of butterfly effect stories, which the viewers in 67 may have read or seen in other series. Kirk had always visited 1932 and ALWAYS caused Edith's death. The Guardian had to send him back right then and there, because the Guardian knows time's shape. That was reinforced by the epilogue in Assignment Earth. I would like to see City done as originally written. I hoped Tarantino would remake that, as he is edgy enough to do Pulp Trek which is what City was before the rewrite. However I'm glad they did the rewrite in 66/67. I don't think I could have taken the original story as a kid.

are you done whining?

are you done whining?

@@Mxyzptlksac Not whining one bit. Just over here not bothering to watch this trash.

@@endorbr no. You're whining. It gets old fast. No one actually enjoys seeing people like you complain all the time.

@@Mxyzptlksac Yeah well you can get bent because I don’t give two shits what you think about my opinions.

萬通門

I thought he was a Q, but I really don’t care... fuckers had a marginally interesting premise a few episodes ago, but they decide to throw us back into the kitschy CBS mirror universe

@@hellfish2309 I'm sorry that half of an episode offends you so much. Maybe you should take a break from trek.

@@WolvesbaneNetwork Lol, another passive aggressive defender of Nu Trek

@@SonofTiamat at least I'm not an over aggressive nu trek hater. I'm not really that big of a fan of discovery and I didn't like Picard. But like I don't want to associate myself with the people who call nu treks creators idiots every chance they get. I don't want to take shows so seriously that I get personally offended by them.

@@SonofTiamat honestly dude, I'm not a fan trek I don't call myself a fan of anything. But I do enjoy conversations about star trek. And I really love the kirk era movies. And I just want to go to a comment section one day and not see comments that are unoriginal at their best and hateful at their worst. I could go on about the many flaws of discovery or Picard (lower decks is pretty good) but in the current environment of the trek "Fandom" it'd only be met with cringey hate of the actors, directors and writers. If someone is as angry as some of these people are they're not making a good case for discovery criticism, they're only making themselves look mean spirited and unfriendly. BTW I dig the name.

Tas better 😂 go back under a rock

I agree. TNG screwed up an awful lot, and arguably led to this STD crap.

TAS is superior to Lower Decks, that’s for sure.

@@ajclements4627 Most definitely 👍 👌

Look I understand that nostalgia is a powerful thing but TNG was the superior show