He is perfect indeed. I would like to think he could be the Star Trek version of Doctor Who. But in this case, time comes to him, not travel through time.
Michelle Yeoh earned her Oscar by taking every role as a serious challenge to be better than she was in her previous roles. I’m glad Paramount is reconsidering her chance to revisit her previous role in “Section 31”. I don’t think it’ll be a recycling project but another award for Yeoh’s ongoing career. ❤❤❤
I don't know about paramount reconsidering Michelle Yeoh coming back to do the show. She had promised to do it even before she took that Oscar: She never thought and she said this in interviews That everything everywhere would ever take off the way it did.
@@TwistedSecrets777 Not if she is going to end up back in the 22nd century of the prime universe, I think. Remember, Michael, her crew and the Discovery all appeared in the future as well. Why did this happen to Georgiou and not to Michael or the rest of the crew? And why are they not trying to find a way to get back to the 22nd century? Doesn't make sense to me...
@@DanielBrongers It was mentioned earlier in the episode, it's happening to Phillipa because not only did she jump 900 years into the future but she had already jumped universes.
@@Washuluver87 Correct. According to this season of Discovery time-travel over a long distance can, apparently, be disorienting to some (Seems the Discovery crew avoided this by and large). Time-travel over a long span AND across a dimension is terminal. So Philippa has to either go across to (whenever) the mirror universe, or way back in time in the prime universe. Those are her two options. She didn't want to go back to the mirror universe "You're not sending me back to Terra" so she's probably somewhere around the 23rd century in the Prime universe. For creative writing purposes, that would be my guess. If Pike is also getting a series they probably don't want to be playing in the same sandbox. I suppose there's one more option. The differing resonances of universes explanation seems to suggest the the real reason Philippa is ill isn't simply that she traveled a great distance through time while being in the wrong universe, but rather that she traveled so far that the two universes had drifted apart upon her return. Thus, the discordance of her atomic resonance was terminally severe. Theoretically, the distance she traveled through time is irrelevant compared to the fact that she went past the point where the universes were acceptably parallel. For example, assume the discomfort/pain caused by this discordance is proportional to how far apart the universes drift apart. If that is the case, there must be a general distance/time at which that distance triggers a terminal discordance. If Philippa jumped forward say...333 years, to a point where that terminal distance was still 70 years into the future, she'd probably be fine. For that matter, if some random Terran from 333 years past Philippa's time happened to find themselves in the prime universe, and THEN they jumped 40 years into the future from that point they'd also probably be fine ("Fine" meaning not dying. Probably uncomfortable in some way though.) My point is that the universes drifting apart is the issue, not simply that she went forward in time while being in the wrong one. SO, in addition to sending Philippa back in time in the prime universe, or over to the mirror universe in any timeline, this being could also send her to whatever universe is currently close enough to the mirror universe not to kill her. Assuming such a universe exists.
@@Mxyzptlksac fair point. But they really never looked back a lot in the TNG Era at how a storyline might have effected previous TOS stories. Also, Harlan Ellison was still around so the production guys might not have wanted to deal with that particular can of worms.
Back when Michael saved the Emperor in Season 1, I remember her getting quite some criticism for it. For one, because she effectively kidnapped the Emperor, and because of the crimes the Emperor committed in her reality. But I always thought saving her, even if it seemed unreasonable at the time, was the most Star Trek course of action Michael could've taken. Or at least, just letting her die was the exact opposite. At the time, it was just an emotional reaction because Michael couldn't see her mentor, even if it wasn't really her, die again. But I think it's also because she wanted to see Prime Georgiou in Mirror Georgiou. For a long time, it seemed like the two were nothing alike. But time went on to prove that this was very much a case of nature vs nurture, and that Mirror Georgiou always had the things that made her prime counterpart great. Others who were given the opportunity for redemption arcs, like Winn and Dukat, rejected them. Georgiou didn't waste hers. She cannot erase her past crimes. But if she is willing to change, they don't have to define her future. At it's most basic, the detour to the mirror universe in Season 1 showed Michael how terrible things could get if we allowed our fears to make all our decisions for us. So by the time Discovery returned, she was not willing to support a plan that would've ruined the Klingon Empire, even if it appeared to be the only option left. Now, Georgiou has learnt similar lessons. Arguably in a more believable way, since her character was actually given the time for it to feel significant. I just wish that this side plot had happened in a show with longer seasons. Two episodes (plus setup) is a lot to sacrifice in a 13 episode season when it does fairly little for the main plot.
Michelle Yeo is an incredibly talented actress. She played an awesome part in this, looking forward to seeing her in the spinoff series. (can you tell I'm a fan 😂)
@@carycimino7699 Based on a recent update it seems that the project is still very much alive and still moving forward with Michelle IF and when she finds the time.
@@crazybrit-nasafan Sadly I Heard that the Section 31 Show they may Announce Today First Contact Day will be a Mini Series, That is Both Good and Bad cause on One Hand we will get a Section 31 Show but on the Other it Will be Short.
@@Diggnuts Please, Philippa failed nonetheless and Spock reformed a whole empire. Discovery also acknowledged 4/5 most decorated captains were male. Listen to RU-vid haters less please.
@@RealLordVoldemort fair enough few of the others were okay if they didn't listen to burnham and and try and kill phillipa they would have made it to their next birthday or performance review
Did nobody get the quantum leap reference? Guardian " you saved a Kelpian and he will save others, a lot of them " Last quantum leap episode " at the risk of over inflating your ego Sam you've done more the lives you touched, touched others and those lives touched more, you've done a lot of good Sam Beckett "
This was an emotional moment for me. I almost cried. Ive never done that watching star trek. Emperor georgiou was an amazing character, well written, great development. Always mysterious, which left me wanting to see more. Always badass, always knowing she will save the day. I gotta say the scene where she fights the courier is amazing. I still think that scene is bad ass
I truly love the dialog from the Guardian telling Emperor Georgiou that she truly changed when she helped Saru. Like the Guardian, she did not have to do this. That is truly a powerful statement.
Theres no saying that the guardian of forever isn't a Q, or a creation of the Q, or just something the Q occasionally like to mess with. Basically always assume at some level, there is a Q involved.
"Stargate" is actually inspired by Star Trek & the City on the Edge of Forever, as a child I saw that episode for the first time when my parents let me stay up late one night to watch this crazy new show that they both also watched, I was about 6 years old back in the day... ...yeah the day, way back in the groovy 60s in the UK. I have waited over half a century to hear those words again "I AM THE GUARDIAN OF FOREVER..." STAR TREK is back, haters!!
Star Trek is mostly a Buck Rogers series updated to the late 60 competing with crews on SF ships like in Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea. Several episodes are lifted directly from Philip Nowlan novels (1920s) or the 30s Buck Rogers comics. The Space Union of Planets and uniforms come from a kids series called "Rocky Jones" in the 50s and the setup is basically Forbidden Planet updated with a fleet of bigger saucer ships, with aliens discovered. Did the Stargate movie in the 90s do it because of the set dresser mistakes in 1966 building City (it wasn't supposed to be a blinking rock doughnut)...i don't know. However I doubt it as the Stargate didn't take you through time but space, as did the Jumpgates on B5 or the wormhole on DS9 the B5 knockoff. The look maybe, but it also looks like Irwin Allen's Time Tunnel a very popular show in the late 60s that has been rebooted a dozen times with different names.
@@Velldog Star Trek: Quantum Leap, where Section 31/Temporal Agent Philippa Georgiou time travels from one century to the next to resolve crime/mystery of the week and to protect the Federation universe from whichever impending doom that may come its way.
The problem with this Guardian of Forever is that he cares what happens when people change the timeline. The original Guardian of Forever had a malevolent sort of apathy. It didn't matter to him, whatsoever, what someone did with the timeline. He was a superior being, but concepts like morality and justice were the concerns of mere mortals, concerns he wasn't designed to be bothered with.
alot can happen in the many thousands of years that has passed .....he tested her to see if she would try to do something evil and in the end she showed she wasnt the same person she was before that so he sent her before all of it began to start a new road .....to bad the show cant go on with her it would make a badass side show
ya know what's so cool the Guardian of Forever didn't have to do what he did he could have let Georgiou die. I think he saw something good in her and the only way to find out where she truly belonged was to test her and see if her time in Michal's universe had changed her for the better and it did so he took a liking to Georgiou and gave her a new course in a universe i have a feeling she is going to Love
of all the phenomenal cosmic powers Star Trek had, the Guardian of Forever wasn't even in my top 20 to behind Carl. I wasn't even really expecting him to be a beard for Q
The Guardian of Forever at least in one of the beta canon novels was an artificial intelligence created by the Q, before they ascended into their next plane of existence. Consider the Guardian to be the final grand creation of beings nearing godhood, they have already done everything and can do anything, but going back to the every possible outcome of history would be a triumph for their civilization. At least, it's how I see the Guardian, the final great creation of a god-like race. John de Lancie's Q even mentioned it as "at least our ancestors knew how to build things", it's hard to get praise from the Q and the Guardian being their last material creation seems poetic.
I love this sequence, it's a test to see if Georgiou has changed. She tried to make a difference and in the end did in a way. She still failed but she put the effort in and that;s what the GOF saw. If this were any other show she would have failed. I like that this show grasped change properly that it's about learning and attitude. Georgiou keeps her core personality but is exposed to a life where she doesn't have to be on guard against every single person so it opens her up to new experiences and she can let down her guard on occasion which lets her warm up to others.
Exactly. Its also what I am Working on Now in Philosophy and God. Its What People seem to not Understand. This is what God Judges us on, and what We are striving for. Change is not aout Dramatic results, but inner Realization. Apprach.
I'm curious what he meant about Saru saving others in that universe. Be interesting to see one more incusion into the mirror universe of the past and see what happens. Perhaps Saru joins up with Spock after his encounter with Prime Kirk and they start a revolution.
@@ReaverLordTonus - I'd prefer a les Misérables approach. I Know the Song of Angry men is Popular since The Musical but the Story is actually saying the Revolutionaries were Wrong. Change does not occur by Replacing Inflexible Law with unbridled Lust and the Fires of Hatred. Change occurs when You Love, and are Kind, an Forgive.This is Why Javier Who represented The law, as in Old Testament Law of Moses, could not be appeased. He is Justice, and law, and order, but not Compassion, or Forgiveness. The law is unforgiving. But The Law is not Evil. The Revolutionaries are those Who reject the Strict Nature of The Law, but carry it to the extreme of rejecting it. They are carried away by their Passions, and Destroy themselves int he End if they do Succeed in Revolutions. It is like choosing to throw yourself into the Col of the Woods in Winter, or choosing to Burn the Woods down. You could instead build a Fire in a Fireplace. At First in a Camp. Then a Hut. Then a House. It is not good to be too Cold, but not good to be too Hot either. Passion is Good, in the sense meant here, and so is Law, but not Alone. We must learn to Control the Fire, and to Respect The law, but not be Slaves to it either. The Problem is, You want Geirgeu, who learned to Reject the Fire of Her heart being her Master, to Once More sink into letting Fire Rule Her. Revolutionaries Seize by Force. They make No inner Change. Either in others or in themselves. No, She'd be better being a New Spiritual Leader, as it were. A New Buddha, or New Prophet, or New Guru, or New whatever You wish to Call Her. Be this Literally, by becoming a sort of Religious Leader, or more Broadly, by Embracing the Role in some other Social Capacity. But Real Change is not found in Revolutionaries, but in the Path of peace.
Watching Phillipa leave WAS very sad 😥 BUT expected!!!!!!!! Things have a way of working out and maybe she'll return IN her own unique way!!!!!!!!!! Wishing her lotsa GOOD luck!!!!!!!!!
Knowing what she had went through that got her to the point where she is now, when she asks if she could bring Micheal it jokes me up every time. After all this time, she's finally TRULY not alone, and now she has to go to once again not be alone and to make it all the more painful, it's the other version of her daughter, who also doesn't want to have to say goodbye to another version of her Captain who she DEEPLY loved and admired. Man say what you will about this show but in comparison to what disney did with star wars we got gold.
She could have. The name section 31, was give to the organization by the original federation charter back in enterprise. However, the organization probably did exist before then.
@@PsychCaptain Yes; I said maybe the guardian sent her back in time far enough to found section 31; and she named it that, because she was in the 31st century at the time.
Per ENT, Section 31 was first created via the United Earth Starfleet charter, Article 14, Section 31 and was definitely actively conducting operations by the 2140s and 2150s. So if she's truly going back to the beginning, that would suggest yet another early prequel.
Phillipa was one of the best characters in that series, and you can see that Michelle just relished playing her. I know that a move has been mooted, but I'd love to see her in a future series. Perhaps a spin-off?
"Weighed." This alludes to the Egyptian lore of Death and Judgement by Anubis. The dead's soul is weighed against a feather. If the soul is heavier than the feather, it is sent to their version of Hell. Otherwise, their version of Heaven. And Anubis is a pretty slick anthro Jackal, just don't hit him up on a date, kay? Carl, "needed" to help the Emperor travel back, failing that as Dr. Kovich predicted., going out with a bang. DISCOVERY is a lynch pin in that timeline. It's needed right where it is, as Capt. Burnham.
"Getting weighed" probably has two meaning. Either as an acceptable carry-on luggage to store in the upper bin, or by going the route of ancient Egyptian mythology where the gods judged the dead by placing their hearts on a scale.
By what that gurdian mean is that he will be sent to a time where warp technology is yet to be discovered cause there are two conclusion about the mirror universe it either started in a time of a roman empire existed or it started when Cochrane killed the vulans and took the survey ship.
That's what I thought...I'm guessing that its First Contact between Terrans and Vulcans But then again, Archer said the empire existed for what...thousands of years? Or did Archer say centuries? Which indicates that it could be the Roman empire
Why I'm getting a lot of "It's A Wonderful Life" vibe here, with Georgiou is George Bailey and Carl is Clarence, and he is sent with a mission to show Georgiou that she has a different and better path in whichever universe she ends up next (aka her own Trek series).
“This Michael Burnham is right where she needs to be”, interesting phrasing, a reference to another Michael Burnham he came into contact in another time period, STO players understand.
I have to say Michelle yole's performance has improved a lot in this season comparing to the previous 2. I enjoyed scenes with her in this season quite a lot. Too bad that her character's story has to depart here from Michael's . I do hope we could still see more of phillipa gergeou in the future seasons.
That's like... A years-long process with less than 5% chances of success. Can't exchange the atoms immediately because it's replacing her body but what happens to the mind within the brain? Not to mention the quantum signatures of the matter that composes her is from the mirror universe. Exchanging that with atoms from the prime is simply asking like, "Hey resurrect prime Georgiou by turning the emperor into her."
Stark Trek has been burnt out before enterprise ended. They went 19 years without a break in Star Trek. Discovery is doing good with all things considered.
You understand the implication? That the Mirror Universe is actually an alternate universe with a different quantum state? Carl said that Georgiou was going to a time when the prime universe and the mirror universe were still aligned. So at some point in the past, that changed. An event happened with different outcomes in the two universes, and that set the two universes on different trajectories. This is consistent w/the 7th season TNG episode where Worf encountered multiple alternate universes with different timelines sequentially. In each universe he entered, the characters were mostly the same, with a critical historical event in their pasts where every subsequent event happened differently. I want to know what event in the past caused the two universes to diverge. It must have been pre-Star Trek Enterprise, since the flag on the moon in the mirror Universe wasn't the Stars and Stripes but that of a sword and the Earth on it.
They said that the 2 universes had drifted so far apart by the 32nd century that there hadn't been any crossings in centuries. The time that they came from would probably be sufficient for Georgiou's survival since the two universes were more closely aligned. It was only when they traveled into the future that there was a problem.
When the mirror and the prime universe was aligned? So she may be going to prevent the mirror universe from being formed. No Empire; no murdered Vulcans at First Contact... wait, no super sexy Kira. Hold on, let's think this through.
Looking forward to seeing Philippa in Section 31. BTW, in DS9's Mirror Universe episodes, the subjugated peoples were just as horrible as the Terrans. For example, Mirror Major Kira, was a bisexual nyphomaniac. And that was her good points. She was also murderous and sadistic. Poor Garak was reduced to kissing ass in both realities. 😛
Prime Garak would have them all killing each other, then make himself Emperor. The only ass Garak was kissing was probably Bashir, but the flirting, romancing, and chocolates fell on deaf ears.
She will be the one to start Section 31. The Mirror Universe will be erased canonically. Philippa will stop Zevran Cochran from killing the Vulcans. eventually leading that Mirror Universe to become the Prime Universe. Section 31 will exist to counter the federation's high ideals, and as a safeguard against that weakness, because it is needed.
Nah the Terran Empire predates Zefram Cochrane. A successor if the Roman Empire. Also Terrans are almost are different species due to being hyper aggressive and brightness tolerance.
@@reddyredwolf3931 I believe that the beginning of the Terran empire was Cochrane. Everything before him was just normal human history that we have today. The mirror universe began with the shooting of the Vulcans. That is likely where Georgiou is being sent.
@@MalcrowAlogoran Watch the A Mirror Darkly intro ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-sfbsZRbwbJ4.html The Moon landing is not American but Terran. Terran culture descended from Rome. Mirror Mirror had Terrans and Mirror Spock perform the Roman salute. Mirror Archer refered to the gods in his speech on the ISS Avenger. Discovery Mirror Universe episodes confirm the Terran Empire is a continuation of Rome.
Just one continuity error. When Kirk and Spock found the Guardian, Kirk asked “What is it?”. And the Guardian said that it was waiting for a question for billions of years. Clearly if Discovery is asking questions, that can’t be right.
Well, like Carl said , "back in those days it was like sure, come on through.. just don't change history'.. then he was starting to be used for evil..so he disappeared
Maybe others have pointed this out, but Carl seems to be dressed in an outfit reminiscent of what men wore in the 1930s, the era McCoy, Kirk and Spock visited when they went through the Guardian.
"and he'll save others, a lot of them." Wait so that wasn't an illusion or simulation, a new alternate timeline was created that will branch off and continue with the repercussions of what she did? Be interesting to see the results.
I get it. She has to go back to the 23rd Century. And that is the ONLY possible cure for her condition. She jumped universes but the result of being flung forwards to the 32nd century was too much for her cells to cope with! Basically she had lost their stability. The only way out is for her to go back to the 23rd Century. A year or so! After the Discovery's disappearance from there. The Temporal Cold War was 200 years earlier. And the Guardian of Forever absolutely disliked what the Sphere Builders and some others did!
Is it confirmed that her show is taking place just after the disappearance of Discovery? As he said she's going back to a time when the two universes where allined, which would be before First Contact.
Nah. We still don't know who created The Guardian, and we don't know who were Q prior to their ascension. I wouldn't be surprised the the makers of the Guardian were engineers belonging to the same race that later became Q. He controls time and space in a similar way to Q, but also - as we see here - he has a conscience, which tells me that he predates Q by far.
@@frodobaggins3974 Part of the Beta Canon books says that Q before their ascension were the builders of the Guardian of Forever, they used highly advanced technology to explore space/time until they became Gods due to something "the new era". Our Q, de Lancie, was the one who asked the last question of the Guardian when he was younger commenting his ancestors built the Guardian in appreciation, signalling the Guardian's construction and abilities as a wonder of his own people's distant past. I like that concept, Q had to have evolved from mere mortals at some point and developed technology. It's like human beings nowadays marveling at the Pyramids, the Great Wall, or Stonehenge. We no longer need or use these places, but they are monument to those who came before us. To me that is what the Guardian could be, an evolutionary sign post of how far the Q had to go and still even further before they became eventually.
@@time391 Really? I didn't know. But a similar concept was explored in Stargate, with an ancient race, probably the first one to evolve - at least in the known universe - built a lot of interesting tech, and then moved on to another plane of existence, leaving their constructs behind for younger races to play with. And to be honest - I remember a similar concept in other good series, many of which predates Discovery. Babylon 5 for example. But yeah - Q must have evolved somehow to become what they were in TNG or Voyager. Evolution takes time, and I guess at some point of their history they started mastering time itself, potentially exploring other dimensions / realities. That's when The Guardian could have been built. And then imagine - if you have all the energy that your galaxy can provide at your disposal, you understand the reality to the level where you can travel anywhere / anytime, and have no natural predators hunting you, what's next on the list? How does a civilisation progress from this point? One way is to seek accension. Leave the physical form. Become Q. By the way, the concept is actually ancient and originates form Chinese Taoism. Maybe that's why writers find it so attractive.
Isn’t interesting the idea that geourgio or even burnham herself at that moment realizing she’s going back in time could have actually beamed back on the ship and looked at the past records to find geourgio and her accomplishments before she was sent back. That would be such a mind mess.
You're supposed to, but the concept is totally different and rather cheapened the Guardian. True there are few writers that are operating at Ellison's metaphysical imagination in this age. In the original draft the Guardian was 7 Guardians (a council of time) and the portal was just their device. Roddenberry's crew condensed them to a voiceover and the portal being The Guardian. I watched this sequence of S3 and this was done as a backdoor pilot like Assignment Earth. It was contrived just to explain a new series, and Carl is not as well done as the pan temporal character in MIB3 which he is lifted from. A big clue is The Prime universe and The Terran universe...thats fan-fiction lingo. Why would one timeline be the "Prime"? In the original, the Guardian always knew how time went. Kirk and company was there so Edith had died. She died because Kirk fell in love with her and took her to see a Clark Gable movie...after Spock was given just enough information to know "Edith Keylor must die" Why did the Social Worker cross the road...to get to the other side. Why was she on the other side...she was on a date.
So if in 2150's Hoshi Sato became empress in the mirror universe, and 100 years later Phillipa is empress (and normally being empress or emperor is passed down) are Hoshi and her related?
Discovery gets such a lot of abuse and hatred.... I honestly think people will look back on it and ask "why the hell did they kill it after 5 seasons". I know their style is a bit unprofessional and the interpersonal stuff is a bit too touchy feely sometimes but really - it has been brilliant... Yeoh is just outstanding ... but Martin-Green has really poured everything into the role as well... she has been one of the best actors ever on the show... I really do think she has been superb. I love the scenes where she think Book has been killed and when the 10C bring him back... she could not have put any more into that scene. Nobody could have. She deserves an award for her acting skills.
They said that they brought him back to the station because they didn't know what was in the envelope. If he tells them what's in the envelope which may be some crime and its own because it was addressed to a specific person are they going to believe him? If he had of opened it and took the papers out with that have been a problem? The moral of the story is let the post office take the risk.
And i thought before this episode would end, georgiou would appear in the mirror universe, in the past where she will meet little Mickael for a third chance.
I have a feeling that the section 31 spin-off show is going to be in the temporal Cold War time as much as they're mentioning it I have a feeling that's what's going to happen and that's where she was sent
