The HIDDEN COSTS of a HAAS VF2-SS | Pierson Workholding 

Thank you for the kind words. We'll keep the content coming!

Nothing wrong with my 6 Haas… zero issues over 11years Same old junk repeated by people who don’t have a Haas 😂

Keeping the 4th in the Machine is a great idea. When you get some time you might consider mounting some brackets for the rotary to sit on, so you don't have to rely on the winch cable. The Haas rotarys aren't super heavy, but keeping fixtures mounted adds a decent amount of weight.

I love it! 8 years on a hoist and still safe! Proving the naysayers wrong.

Glad to hear! A lot of the commenters forget that it's less about the machine and more about the machinist. Congrats on your success!

They drilled a hole in the top to use a strap....it only weighs 90 to 120 lbs..just grab it and stab it...I did granite countertops for 17 years...metal is not heavy no more...

Thank you! Hope you've been sticking with us for our latest videos!

Great point! Yes, we already owned it but it could easily add $10k.

You'd be surprised how much crap is floating around a "clean" shop. Tool changers - typically 30 tools but I recommend a big TC if you're a job shop.

Blasting compressed air through only blasts the dust back in the air. The filters capture it, it makes sense in a clean shop but in a welding place it's just a waste of money so take the depreciation. The machines can easily handle dust but it's also slightly cleaning the air for the shop instead of a dedicated unit.

Yes, we're definitely doing a second "season" of the robot series.

Thanks! Balzy to hang the 4th... I'd rather risk dropping it in the machine than anyone dropping into the hospital. Hope your boss is ok!

@@PiersonWorkholding Oh this was YEARS ago but yea, he was okay but it was always stressful... But overall if it works, it works!

I don't know about the genius part, but I know we excel in always asking if there's a better way to do things.

Yes. Anyone can email us and we'll send the model. questions(at)piersonworkholding.com

I've seen 4-8 weeks but this machine was pre-built and in stock. Signed the check and it arrived 3 days later.

It's as rigid as bolting it to the table. Use the 10x12 size pallets for single and double station vises.

@@PiersonWorkholding I'm envisioning a plate replicating the machine table mounted in as many vacuum plates as you can fit. Easily interchangeable with various fixtures for relative jobs. Capable of utilizing the full machine travel for large/one off jobs while also quickly setup for production work as soon as that PO comes in. At the expense of only a few inches of z axis travel you can take your milling machine to the next level.

That's a great question! I don't think there's a magic formula but I prefer smaller pallet sizes with fewer number of parts. Material from scrapped parts and the actual cost of power are the only true costs that are lost. I always attribute payroll losses associated with scrap to the cost of educating our team.

Cool! Could you tell why you chose a VF2 instead of a DT?

Yes, inspection is done at the factory and a report is provided. The factory tests must fall within specs or it doesn't ship.

Have you looked at a brothers or YCM? Nice machines. Do you have other Mazak in your shop already? I'm only asking because a lot of guys like them and a lot hate them.

@@scottknight1301 I have not. Buying a machine is so much about your local factory outlet. If they suck then the machine is about useless when there is a problem. My first haas was set up by a drunk tech who crashed the machine. My second was set up by a guy who had to read the instructions. When I had problems I was told that I just didnt know how to run the machine. When I finaly proved the inconsistency in the x axis they replaced the motor and driver with USED components off another machine. The sub spindle to this day is unusable and haas wont do anything about it. If you are a younger business owner and live in the south east RUN from Philips. Their sales person last time he was here got into my face when I said I was not going to order my 5 axis from them until they fixed the y axis lathes issues. He stood there jabbing me in the chest with his finger explaining to me why machines have problems and sometimes you just pay 20k for a sub spindle and if it makes grinding noises then you just live with it. After they left one of my associates who was there said "if a fourth haas comes into this building I stop coming in" When I was calling around to look at other machines MAZAK and Okuma both came out with their tech guys so I could meet the people I would be dealing with. I was very impressed with both and I just liked the Mazak controller better.... and well the price was closer to what I was prepared to spend on the haas. Haas makes nice stuff. I Love my haas machines and If I could buy from another factory outlet I would but haas wont allow that unless I move states away.

@@hyperformancellc totally understand that. We happen to have a good Haas HFO near us but that's beside the point. Any sales guy that pokes a customer is asking for a free tour of the local ER . Mazak can be a nice machine( controller preference for some but not myself), my dad loves his and is a big fan. At our shop we have two less then 2 years old and their techs practically live at the shop so I'm not a fan. Always dumb stuff too. Okuma though. Nice nice machine.

@@scottknight1301 we seriously considered moving to another area to get a new HFO. would have had to move so far we would have lost all our customers though.

@@hyperformancellc that's insane but I understand at the same time. Good luck to you.

No, we already owned it and reassigned it to this machine.

They didn't deserve you! The best machinists are the most detailed people.

I second that approach. Every machine in our shop runs a warmup program every morning and spindle problems have never happened.

Very cool!

Haas are cheap weak fragile poorly built machines you get what you pay for….

Our remote jog handle was on the floor one day because the holder failed. We gave up on our auto doors. The crappy plastic rack keeps peeling up so we gave up. There was a fix from haas but that lasted about a month.

@@chrisyboy666 Having a Haas Mill, I strongly disagree. Very good machines for there price range.

Sounds like the mafia is involved, breakdown in communication, and suckers will just give up.

Shouldent be a problem, its all servos and motors, tho costly to change out the system usually but fully doable

Haas is very strict about using only their controller. If you want Fanuc or Siemmens. (or even LinuxCNC which with ethercat servos is quite capable), you'll probably have to look elsewhere.

@@franciscoanconia2334 ofc, but just retrofit it yourself, warranty is prob out of the window anyways if youre thinking about doing it

I was thinking too some kind of stainless sheet metal shelf or shelf bracket rails; not only would it hopefully secure it a little better it would just look neat and tidy.

Or just an overhead deadstop that you could winch it up against, like an upside down saddle. And I'd put a little idler pulley on those suspended lines, which seems excessive, but I've seen lots of lines get tagged when booming up and down top head drive drill derricks, and a tensioned traversing pully is a surprisingly simple solve.

I was thinking about same thing. Maybe at least add some secondary protection and holding in case a winch or cable fails. Would be an expensive accident if it does.

I don't think fragile is the right word. There are better machines and there are worse machines. I think Haas has the best value, service and resources for the vast majority of shops. I wouldn't recommend a VF for a small garage if just starting out and I wouldn't recommend a VF in a giant, tight-tolerance medical device company.

It was an amazing sale that I absolutely could not pass up. I don't think we'll see prices like that again.

We put Mistaway collectors on every machine. 5 stage filtration ending with an activated charcoal screen.

2nd time I've heard "robodrill" in 24 hrs, now I HAVE TO check it out. Just the name sounds cool as hell. I just got my NIMS certs (and factory Haas, which are kind of a joke) and would rather have a great machine in the garage than a car. So maybe Robodrill and a bus pass it is

Is it too late for us to fix it in-house? Something like polishing it?

Sadly no. I'm not aware of any outfit that makes machines willing to go that step. I've always had to arrange for pickup at regional distributor, and delivery at the shop.

Yes, the $1,100 includes freight and rigging to unload the machine and place it on the floor.

I've never heard of anything close to 6k for delivery. Where are you located?

@@PiersonWorkholding The mexican side of Texas border. Export is another 2k.

Yes, in your dreams.

@@loukola5353 oh so no?

@@LordOfChaos.x they use a mathematical model to approximate & correct for ball screw expansion & contraction during use. Works pretty well IIRC. But if you want any kind of "hard" compensation the only answer is linear scales & I don't think they were even an option on such a small machine. VM's maybe. Outside of that you might be able to pull it off with probing & macros. But the best solution will always be a climate controlled shop and if you're making stuff where that isn't enough, you most likely shouldn't be looking at a Haas.

@@Iceberg86300 oh i see Thanks for the explanation I was looking for a new 3 axis machine But i quess i will buy the DMG M1 if what u just said is true Since it offers it at just 60.000 euros starting price

@@LordOfChaos.x no problem. I didn't see anything about temp comp or linear scales on the DMG, just "thermal stability." Do you have a link? And w/o scales they're probably doing the same thing as Haas. But I've been out of the game ~11 years, so don't go making decisions w/o verifying my info.

Very good point. I paid $995 for "Through Spindle Coolant Ready" in case we need to upgrade the machine in the field. You don't want to save pennies that will cost you dollars if you can't do a bolt-on upgrade.

@@PiersonWorkholding And through tool cutting fluid really gets where it's needed, be it at the tip of a drill to evacuate chips fr a deep hole, at each insert of a huge face mill or the end of solid carbide tooling. (Personally I find the programmable nossle a rather lame compromise - to often it can't reach or is on the wrong side.)

Liability.

​@@wannabecarguyI often think there's not enough lawyers in the world. Thank goodness we have people like you to fill in and shoot down random ideas on the internet. Haas should probably just stop making all of their products because they are all inherently dangerous.

I made a cart that gets trough the side and allows me to place the 4th axis and take it out trough the side window. I did however, had to cut the sheetmetal (ugggg). But it works just fine and looks tidy. Also, after a while, all that material just stiking around the 4th axis is a pain to clean between jobs.

@@zunuf"Thank goodness we have people like you to fill in and shoot down random ideas on the internet." why get mad at some guy telling the truth? he didn't make the laws or the lawyers, nor did he make people sue.

​@@strangevisions5162 Because it's a useless comment. Pointing out the obvious doesn't make for interesting conversation or innovation. We live in a world with skydiving, roller coasters, fireworks, etc etc. Safety and liability matter, but people who flatly dismiss things like he did, ignore the nuance of how the world actually works. The whole point of my comment was to come up with a SAFER version of what Pierson is doing. To me it was comical that Haas can sell giant lathes and gantry machines, but a shelf that holds a couple hundred pounds is far too dangerous.

Filters stop particles larger than their rating. Buy accordingly.

The spindle housing was blocked to the table. Haas has a special bracket for that. Open your eyes 🤣

That's right!

Where did you order it , shipping included ?

What brand? Model?

@@shaneduffy4853 Shipping was not included, but I ordered also a lathe, a gear hobber, a hydraulic press and a bandsaw. The whole container was less than 2000USD. Customs was somewhat around 400USD. For all the machines I payed about 55k. All new, no problems at all. The controls are GSK, run smoothly and fast, they may be lacking some fancy options like spline (G5), but overall they run quite well. On the CNC I got cheap and bought the semi-open enclosure (full enclosure is about 1500usd more), and would recommend buying the full enclosure. The business is called Tengzhou Bouri, I bought it trough alibaba with trade assurance, no problems at all.

@@alldayy Tengzhou Borui XK1050

@@franciscoanconia2334 what "hidden" costs? You talking about options?

Well, if someone desires a well-built machine then Haas, unfortunately, is not the wisest choice. Even Hurco is a decent machine tool brand. I think Matsuura, Kitamura, Yasda, or even a Heller are better CNC machine tools then Doosan.

I didn't mind taking a mortgage on my house to buy a Hermle. Haas seem overpriced in my opinion, they command prices of a different league.

Haha, not my intention but I suppose you're right!

@@PiersonWorkholding we love your work. Keep it up!!

This is truth. Nobody talks about how the SS option reduces accuracy and reduces ball screw life while proving an insignificant cycle time reduction. Haas only added the SS option to compete on the spec sheet, not because it makes a better machine. I worked for 8 years at a company that ran 500 Haas mills doing both part making and mold cutting. Don't get me started on Z fiction compensation or notch filters on Haas machines.

@@daphoosa yeah... for fast milling you absolutely need chilled guides and temp-control on the ballscrew, something DMG is very capable of.

is that with a rotary?

@@justinm4323 heck no 85k doesn't get you a rotary just auger, high pressure, probe, and hsm.

@@justindonajkowski336 I paid 79K delivered for a VF2 30 tool changer, auger, Though spindle coolant, probe, HSM, 4th axis HRC 210. 7 months ago.

Because of the ridiculous sale price.

Then you would be paying more money and still you would have problems. Even expensive machines have problems from the factory. I know because I used to fix them. It may be less often but there is no 100 percent perfect production / transport history and you are only fooling yourself if you think there is. If you buy a cheaper car you can not be surprised if it has a problem when new but when you buy an expensive car guess what , sometimes you also have problems when new from the factory. I know plenty of people who bought the overpriced imported "luxury " car and issues and troubles that came with car. The difference is when you buy a cheaper car that still gets you from location a to location b you keep all the money you would have wasted on a fancy car in your pocket.

As if perfection has no cost?

Ohhh you mean we're supposed to filter air going INTO the machine? Wow, thanks! Boy, building a company is easy but figuring out airflow direction... really tough! Thank you for your expertise!

@piersonworkholding LOL! I think that dude should be more concerned with the hot air that comes out of his drunk-ass mouth. The filter idea is fantastic and any sane person knows you know what you're doing.