Sweet video. Good general rope awareness video. 👍 May I add, I thought the "hidden danger" was going to be not transferring over into descent onto your "2nd" set of ropes in almost the mirror of your descending action. In a situation with a large reanchor usually the final drop set has either a hazard or some reason the ropes cannot be a straight drop down to the ground, deck, platform etc. When you have taken the "1st" set of ropes with you to the vertical line of your final ropes, no-one may be able to reach the original rope, or youve pulled the original rope into the hazard that was being sought to be avoided. And at that point in time your rescue is quite compromised. 🤔 Thanks for the vids. Have been watching and am subscribed! Always good to have good clean and clear content available in lots of different styles. Cheers 🍻
Hi Mark, I had to read your comment a few times before I got what you meant. And I get it now. This is a very good point and something I have never encountered. I’ve only used this over water or to get underneath platforms. So actually working from the top down. Then your point is not an issue. So what you are saying had never occurred to me. Good point Thank you for bringing this up!🙏🏻🙏🏻
@@TheRopeAccessChannel great discussion guys and another quality video Alex. It's a solid point from Mark. I explain it the following way: On a small re-anchor, the access lines below will only move 1.5m away from vertical and always within reach of the rescuer below. If the tech is doing a wide transfer over a handrail and above water for example, the access lines will move over the handrail and out of the rescuer's reach. That's why it can be best practice to get into the loop and leave the access lines vertical. We always want a clear path for the rescuer to come and get us if it's not rigged for rescue. 👍
@@simonthomson1631 exactly how I would see it. I have been thinking about it why I had never ran into this. I hope that most supervisors would see that the ropes become inaccessible and make sure to have a plan in place. I love this guys! This is exactly one of the reasons I started this. A conversation where we can all learn🙏🏻🙏🏻
@@simonthomson1631 Thank you, Simon and Mark. One thing we can utilize is a rope grab device I have, it telescopes from 16", to 36" and has a little hook on the end, this device is very thin and simply attaches to our harness with a little carabiner. A great piece of kit to have ready whenever needed. Jim H.
Hello Alex, You been using your Duck with a progress adjust lanyard I recognised! Petzl actually advices that a progress adjust should only be used in work positioning application never as in potential shock loading application which a cows-tail is usually made for in a back up Szenario! Just was thinking to put this out there and get your feedback on this as I am always trying to understand the right choice of gear! Thanks for all the great content you putting out there!
Hi David, thank you for bringing this up. It is a very good point. When I was filming these video's I had just recently started playing around with Duck and considered the Adjust as one of my cowstails. Since then I have looked into it a bit more and found this and did a risk assessment on the way I will use this combination. I'm going to get a bit technical here and show you how I got to the conclusion. In the Petzl manual it says this in the precautions part: "The PROGRESS ADJUST-I lanyard must not be used for fall arrest." And in the literal sense on rope we all think it is as fall arrest. However, I think fall arrest is when we climb on structures with fall arrest lanyards and integrated shockaborbers. A rope access backup device is not the same as a fall arrest system. Some manufacturers do use the fall arrest wording for their backups unfortunately. The DuckR is adheres to EN12841:2006 (Personal fall protection equipment - Rope access systems - Rope adjustment devices). The abstract of that norm states: "This European Standard applies to rope adjustment devices intended for use in rope access systems. It specifies the requirements, test methods, marking and information supplied by the manufacturer. Rope adjustment devices conforming to this European Standard may be designed for the use of one person, or in case of rescue, for two persons simultaneously. *The rope adjustment devices as specified are not suitable for use in a fall arrest system.* " That last sentence is the important one. By definition, if we use the DuckR according to it's user manual we are not working on a fall arrest system. Petzl also say this on the site: * "Dynamic rope lanyard to limit the impact force transmitted to the user in the event of a short fall"* . And in the manual it states the Progress Adjust slips at 4kN (I don't know if that is a slow pull or shock load) and will serve as a force limiter and can absorb shocks in a short fall. By using that in combination with the Duck I can adjust the length and minimise fall distance as much as possible. If you read the DuckR manual it says, we should be perfectly fine up to 50 cm fall distances (I dont like dealing with FF because a FF 1 in a 60 cm static sling is not fun and a FF1 in a 10 meter bungy cord from a bridge is. If it is high enough....😉). Keeping it short with the Adjust helps that. As always it is important to keep the backup high and limit fall distance. Working on a system like this does require more attention and I would not recommend to newer or inexperienced techs. I have spoken to a few assessors and L2 and 3's I hold in high regard. Lets just call them lifelong knowledgeable rope techs who know wayyyyy more than me. That level moniker doesn't always mean that much.. They shared my opinion. I'm comfortable with the use in this way and I welcome any conversation with HSE whatever knowledgeable person. In conclusion. #supergoodenough 😜. PS If you or anybody else has a different idea on this, let's have that conversation👍
@@TheRopeAccessChannel Hi, Sorry by advance if my comment is boring ! I can't find the information about "in the manual it states the Progress Adjust slips at 4kN". But I saw the picture with the red skull panel with slack in the adjust lanyard, even in FF1 (picture n°7 in the technical notice). When I asked Petzl, they answered to me that the adjust system could damage the rope in case of a shock... So, I totally can understand your risk analysis and technical choices, but I'm not as "supergoodenought" than you ! 😅
@@julienrivollet3654 this is far from boring. And I am learning. Which is one reason for this whole channel😉. There is an image in the manual/technical notice with 4kN and a rope slipping through in nr 6. I got that from the Petzl site. Did Petzl specify at what force? Anything will damage rope with enough force. If in the technical notice is says slipping at 4 kN then that’s ok right. The duck should slip to and because of the adjust the fall distance will be minimal and shockload not so high. Just as a FYI, I switched over to a cowstails for the DuckR when in motion until I am sure
This is exactly why I follow this channel as well! I had also been told while doing my Level 2's that a Petzl adjust cannot be used in combination with a duck although never looked into the exact reasons why. Did you end up finding a definitive answer on this being used used in combination Alex @TheRopeAccessChannel ? Great content as always, thank you for your time, effort and sharing of knowledge
Hello Alex Loving your videos 👌 Nice topic and tips The vector forces are very important in saving energy and by this you become more efficient on ropes so for me is a nice tip for new people on ropes ! The mistake you show on the video it's a very good one ! One way I like to make my third connection to the ropes it's to put one cow tail in the center of the two bunny ears knots or to go to the anchor point like you said on the video It's funny and good has the years go by , the people you meet , there are so many ways of doing the same thing ! If we think, the way you pass the knots is the same as a doble deviation rescue on the more " traditicional" way we're you change your safety rope to work and work to safety . Keep up the good work 😉👌
Thanks Ruben, that is a very nice way of comparing that double deviation rescue technique to passing this large re-anchor. I like it 🙏🏻👊🏼. It’s good if we can see the different ways or methods of doing the same thing right. That’s why I like these interactions😃
I just rewatched this video again, and reread the comments below yet again, and now I understand what is being said (finally). The access lines should be left available for a rescue, and not taken with you. And, you could also bring another set of lines with you and clip them into the original anchors and utilize them to traverse over, this would leave the rescue lines open. Jim H.
Hi Jess, thank you for your question. But I have to say, that question makes me think you did not watch the complete video. Because I say exactly where it is and it is in de description as well.... ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vsRIuARr1Oo.html
