The Hidden Lovecraft in A Song of Ice and Fire 

The best thing that HP Lovecraft ever did was not copyright his works, I love how so many different universes are connected by it either directly or being heavily influenced by it, it's like it's own multiverse XD

This is a MILLION times more interesting than the crap they're churning out for Season 8.

The concept of people living shorter and shorter as time passes from the peek of a golden age civilization is not just biblical, its a long and very well established in folklore/myth/fantasy settings. It can represent a few different things, but it is often ether a dilution of a the purity of an ideal state of living (sin free), or a lose of purity of blood (from some sort of platonic ideal state), often both. Incidentally, one of the ideas of the philosopher stone, and the immortality it gave, come from its ability to reverse this state.

The biggest nod to Lovecraft I can find is that all these characters are fighting and dying for power, titles, family, and religion. But Beric and Jon both say that there's nothing but maddening blank, dark space after death. A black empty void that consumes all... The idea of petty human squabbles meaning absolutely nothing in the face of a force of nature, incomprehensible to the puny humans in its shadow is very Lovecraftian!

The “Oily Black Stone” or “Bloodstone” is almost definately a Robert E Howard reference. There are several other Howard, and Clark Ashton Smith bits dropped in.

Hastur is also known as the king in yellow, he rules in a city with a yellow sky filled with black stars, this city is Carcosa. This is also a city in Essos and in the books a yellow emperor rules there. Just something I thought you should know.

Was reading A Feast For Crows, and some character in one of Jaime's chapters was named Dagon. Which is one of H.P Lovecraft's mythos

You know a world is incredibly well built when there are this many references hidden and so many subplots and hints to things beyond the comprehension of the characters

What if the Church of Starry Wisdom is the Faith of the Seven? After all, for centuries or even millennia the center of the Faith was in Oldtown and the Starry Sept, which is built out of black marble.

What about the Doom? In Jaime's dream he thinks the doom lives beneath Casterly Rock. And in the House of Undying something is after Daenerys.

To my head cannon "Kings Blood" is your ability to rule and control and how much is measured by how many generations that control lasts or by how Kingly the blood of the person who overthrows you is. Aegon I had a lot as measured by the length of his familys reign. Aenys had less kings blood than Aegon I and his son less again all the way to Aerys II who had less than Robert Baratheon. Joffrey had some of the Kings Blood as he was able to rule and make decisions but Tommen had next to none as his mother ruled in his stead. The self proclaimed kings all must have more than the inherited kings, Joffrey and Tommen, because they were able to pull nations out of their control. I would expect that of all the Lannisters, Tyrion inherited the most from his father with Cercei as a close second. The reason is Tyrions uncanny ability to find himself to a position of control behind royalty again and again no matter how much he loses. I would be he even has more than his queen as any control he peels out of the world stays for much longer, whereas Daenerys' control collapses as soon as she leaves. Its not the Robert has kings blood because he is king. He is king because he had kings blood. They are drawn to power, and naturally find themself at the top of any heirarchy they join. I suspect that R'hllor is just the first dragon. Ancient and giant beyond compare. Powerful enough that they are indistinguishable from a god. The Other is obviously and blatantly the night king is the other. I find it poetic as well that a great beast demanding our blood fights for our survival... and a man that walks as us and grants us immortality is our death.

Also In his earlier book, "Fevre Dream" Martin's main character is Abner Marsh very similar to a character in "The Shadow over Innsmouth" named Obed Marsh. Both boat captains too.

I always fine Kadath to be the most interesting aspect of the mythos...just soo strange and mysterious..

On the subject of kings blood: I belive Magic in ASOIAF is fate and destiny trying to right itself. When the stallion that mounts the world was sacrificed, three dragons was awoken. In terms of the death toll, that might balance out. He was destined to conquer Westeros and that would obviously cause allot of death, destruction and kaos. Now the dragons will cause it in it's place. I belive this is the power of kings blood. Their lives were suppose to effect the world, so when they die, the world needs to right itself through magic.

Hey Quinn, I just wanted to let you know that you should send in a recording of you doing an A Song of Ice & Fire reading as an application to become George's new Reader for official audiobooks. Your Reading Voice is amazing and I feel like it would be a missed opportunity if you didn't. From a Fan -Dillon

damn I just can't get enough of ASOIAF lore. It's ridiculously good! Thanks Ideas of ice and fire and The Order off the green hand

30:00 Not "king's blood," as in direct descent from any person who wore a crown at some point, but "Kings' Blood" as in mythic hero divine blood that innately destines the bloodline for sacral kingship. I can see both having some magical properties but the former definitely being much more potent, without even going into the D&D sorcerer class.

My two favorite ASOIAF youtubers (minus lady greenhand) talking lovecraft. How have I not watched this yet. No gods can ever be trusted because they can never be held to human ideals and virtues.

About Shu-Niggurath: He/She/It is an outer god of fertility and change which can in some rituals eat it’s summoners and the give birth to them again as a satyr-like immortal being (kind of like that one god with three faces in ASOIAF) and it is said that in times of hardship the people of Qohor will sacrifice their own children to the black goat (the black goat of a thousand young if they are the same entity), so it could be that instead of knowledge they are seeking to make their land fertile so they can feed their people or even asking the outer goddess to strengthen their warriors to deal with enemy threats.

Shivers down my spine of the chemical change in my mind ,listening to all these therios of acient myths, lovecraft and cosmic horror I'm dreaming good tonight Quinn and the order of the greenhand epic fuckin epic!

Great video you should start doing some Lovecraft reading I'm pretty sure a lot of people would enjoy it.

Yay for an Ideas and Order collab, and another yay for lovecraftian podcast!! We don't deserve this awesomeness!! (But I'm so happy it's been bestowed upon us!!)

I got the impression that anyone who referred to themselves as having Blood of the First Men was essentially declaring lineage from Garth. I thought Dany's visions & dreams made it pretty clear the Bloodstone Emperor was her blood ancester?

The Drowned God has always seemed fairly Lovecraftian to me. With the far East I'm not sure if that's Lore that Martin doesn't want to release yet or if it's stuff he hasn't gone that far into himself yet because he's too busy working on the ASOIAF part of the world. Listening to this was awesome, hearing a couple of pret-tolkenian fantasy scholars shooting the shit and coming out with material for another PhD thesis.

Do a episode about the Michael Moorcock stuff in the a song of ice and fire

It appears the 3-eyed raven took Bran’s body, and Bran was stuck in the vision/time. Is that the reason Bran keeps getting reborn? I recall the 3-eyed Raven saying he was sitting there for a thousand years waiting for Bran. That means he knew Bran was existing somewhere even before his birth?

Bran 9000: The throne goes to Rheagars only surviving so, Aegon, Jon Snow. Jon: I don't want it. Bran 9000: The the throne goes to Aerys 2nd born son, Jaime Lannister. Jaime: I would be a terrible king. I don't want it. Bran 9000: Next would be Cersei his eldest daughter. Cercei: Begins to laugh in triumph. Daenerys: Dracarys, and takes the throne.

Try playing a drinking game while listening to this video. Every time you hear: “lovecraftian” “lovecraft” and “for lack of a better word” take a drink. You will get shit housed folks.

Lovecraft AND The Order of the Green Hand?!?! This is what I am talking about!

Had to stop the video halfway because you guys reminded me of one of my own mysteries. I sware I remember reading somewhere that one of Aegons sisters had found a giant ancient city in Southeros but every attempt at colonizing it failed so they decided not to go back. Funny thing is I cant seem to figure out where I read this lol. Any ideas

imagine if these things where portrayed in a well done, high budget series...

This was really fun to listen to. There's so much I didnt know and learned through this podcast.

This is great. I think that the King's Blood riddle is solved by the House of Black and White, or moreover, is solved by how they charge for their assassin's service differently depending on the target's importance. The power in king's blood has to do with importance, and is true by metaphor. It isn't that you can claim a rock as your land and you a king upon it, it is that a king is more important than a pauper in relative terms, and thus is more valuable a sacrifice to make. Shedding the blood of a king is pleasing to the gods because it hurts more to the people making the sacrifice than if they just took the blood of some random person. Add in that prophecy is real to a degree, and someone who is important for prophecy is also a powerful sacrifice, as is sacrificing your own child or a dragon egg.

finallly my fav easter eggs are being addressed

The idea of the Human Emperor and his 'immortal empire' is clearly inspired by Chinese mythology. In chinese mythology, through martial arts, internal alchemy, etc, man can transcend flesh and attain _longevity_ together with superhuman abilities and even special powers very analogous to _magic_ . I'm quite sure GRRM has adapted these mythologies to some extent. After the human emperor left, at least 2 different deities descended, one of ice and one of fire, who either caused the decline of the human empire or simply availed themselves of the opportunity, _consuming_ it for themselves. I say consuming because both of them are quite clearly using humans as tools. The Valyrians and their dragons are just as much pieces as them as the Others are. This also leads me to believe the Human Emperor himself is not a native of the planet. The natives (if any) would likely be the children of the forest, werewoods, giants, unicorns, lions, etc. Though that begs the question: those are all creatures of Westeros, what about the native creatures of Essos, etc? If this idea is correct, then surely there ought to be creatures 10k years ago who first confronted these human ancestors. Another common theme in fantasy is the thinning of blood, as mentioned. The normalization of incest among the Targaerians would likely be a practice incentivized to preserve the strength of their Amethyst ancestry's blood.

THAT was amazing! The topics, which are amazing in and of themselves, aside, both your voices just give me fuzzy feelings and I could listen to this 24/7!

I agree about Jaime and Cersei there are so many similarities between Cersei and Aerys: - they are both paranoid -wildfire makes them ecstatic -they are both extremely erratic The World of ice and fire about Aerys: „Though not the most diligent of princes, nor the most intelligent, he had an undeniable charm that won him many friends“/Jaime about Cersei in Feast for Crows: „What ever else one might say about his sister, she did know how to make men love her when she cared enough to try.“ The World of Ice and Fire:„In 265 AC, offended by the stink of King's Landing he spoke of building a 'white city' entirely of marble on the south bank of the Blackwater Rush“/Cersei to Jaime in a Feast for Crows:„'After the war I mean to build a new palace beyond the river' She had dreamed of it the night before last, a magnificent white castle surrounded by woods and gardens, long leagues from the stinks and noise of King's Landing“ World of Ice and Fire about Aerys: “None of these grandiose plans ever came to fruition; most indeed, were forgotten within a moon's turn, for Aerys seemed to grow bored...“/Jaime thinks about Cersei: „She does not lack for wits but she has no judgement and no patience.“ Jaime remembering Aerys-Storm of Swords: „All the traitors. Rossart says the are inside the walls. He's gone to make them a warm welcome“ Cersei talks about her plan to burn the tower :„'the fire may smoke a few rats from the rubble...The imp is small and cunning. He may still be in the walls. If he is, the fire will smoke him out...“ The world of Ice and Fire about Aerys:“Henceforth, His Grace told Pycelle, the realm would know for a certainty that the man who wore the crown also ruled the Seven Kingdoms”Cersei thinks at Margaerys trial: „...they would know they had but one true queen.“ It goes on and on...

That was AWESOME!!! Davos not being Davos! You get me every time! Do this with the Order of the Green Hand more often please. My two favorites together! Thanks!

Has anyone tried to connect the color of the Gemstone Emperors, The Eye color of the magical creatures and/or magically inclined races. AKA, Jade: Green Eyes for Green Sight, Topaz: Yellow Eyes, also maybe GreenSight, Amethyst/Tomaline : Purple Eyes, Fire/Valeryrian, Pearl/Opal, White? Moon Singers? BloodStone; Red Eyes, Skin Changing/Warging. Dont know just a thought.

What if the Maesters have more information on the far east than they're letting on? Forbidden texts and sections of the Citadel gathering dusts on dark, musty shelves.

Thank you for an excellent collaboration and thoughtful discussion! Love it when you two talk Lovecraft and the mystical side of GRRM’s world-building.

This was great ! I'd be very happy to see more of this.

That Forsaken chapter really messed with my head in an existential way. Lucky for me, my favorite feeling is existential dread. I love when GRRM gives us that. He definitely pulled inspo from HP Lovecraft and it was great! On a different note, I still want to know what lies in Valyria that can injure Balerion the freaking Dread. That chapter in Fire and Blood was pure nightmare fuel and I loved it!!

that was an amazing conversation. thank you!

Your collabs are freaking awesome really love both of your channels.

I always took Johann’s sadness to be that Tywin’s dream had come true but in the spirit of be carful what you wish for, his children are deeply emotionally damaged by his hand. I think it breaks Johann’s heart to see what’s become of the man she loved and her children.

I just discovered Quinn through LML who I rediscovered after forgetting about through Alt Shift X as I was rereading this series.. you guys reinvigorated my absolute love for this series! Incredible content and analysis.

I love re listening to this video even 5 years later. Was such a cool conversation with Quinn and Dave.

This is the fast track to a nice career. Awesome reviews! Saves a lot of time.

Best colab possible. Thanks for the vid

In another video, someone made a suggestion in a comment for HBO to adapt Dune as a TV series similar to ASOIAF/GOT. What does anyone think about this?

Many thanks for absolutely awesome podcast guys! Please keep providing us with top notch content and I'd be super hyped if there'll be another round on lovecraftian thing with a bit more focus on citations from both sources - each time you do that I feel like "god damn I see it now! how could I miss that" and this feeling is the best :)

Always getting shivers.

Jamie's vision could be someone in the guise of his mother. His 'mother' tells him what his father dreams. Maybe that was Tywin's ambition for their children that Joanna knew well, or it is something someone else knew from watching Tywin's dreams. I'll have to reread that chapter for myself. A fascinating sequence all the same.

This is AWESOME!!!!! Thank you for your videos!!!!! And all your hard work that makes your videos so wonderful!!! I'm a HUGE FAN!!!!!!

This is just what I need. Gonna let this buffer for min, while I still have data, and then hopefully this will get me through the rest of the Rocky's to Denver before I have to try and load another video lol

Love these videos. I read all the lovecraft works as a twenager so I probably missed some nuances, but I definitely felt the influence reading tsoiaf as an adult. In glad others felt the influence.

I just wanted to take the time to say thanks for making videos. Not just this one but all of them. I especially enjoy your videos on subjects such as these, or DUNE. You convinced me to read the books (Thank Christ) as I only knew the David Lynch version from the 80's. But anyway, thanks a ton!

The concept of royalty is interesting in ASOIAF. I've always tried separate out the different titles of the one who sits the iron throne (ie King the Andals, Roynar and First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm) to help understand this concept of kings blood. It seems that the Lord of the Seven Kingdoms means the one Lord Paramount above all other vassal lords who owe him/her fealty; Protector of the Realm being akin to Commander in Chief or the head of all the different wardens, while the title King seems to be the one related to genetics and lineage. Thus, one cannot truly be "King" unless they have the true ancestral lineage to back that claim up, and if someone were to just name themselves "King", they would really be a King only in name -- a "false king".

"We live inside the eye of a blue eyed giant macumbah" Once a season for the first 1-4 seasons of the show, someone made a reference to this.

The Valyrians are hardly influenced by Michael Moorcock's Melnibonéans. Ancient advance and decadent culture, they are cruel with his humans slaves (they are not), the use magic, blood rituals and they have dragons. Elric the Emperor of Melniboné is albino, with red eyes and white hair, so I'm pretty sure George RR Martin got inspired by Moorcock's books.

I loved your Lovecraft/ASOIF talk. Great stuff. And the music made it 1000 times more horror.

I agree with a lot, but I have a difference of opinion on the loss of identity in the books specifically the Stark siblings compared to Lovecraft Loss of identity. In the book, they are being manipulated by people and it's not so much that they are losing their identity as they are changing, assuming new roles and therefore new modes of thinking, after all, we could not call their experiences other than traumatic. When I see Lovecraft fall into madness due to eldrich understanding is more absolute, in comparison to what you have failed to understand everything you know about everything is meaningless and the remaining answers are so hopeless you shut down completely. However, it could be similar to what happened to Hodor.

I realize this is an old video but one way I saw it was that there is only one god and his name is death and what do we say to death not today . Despite what’s looks like the white walkers are the ones who are bringing dead men back to life in a manner of speaking with the exception on Jon, beric, and lady stone heart.

Such a shame that the show didn't even touch on any of this. Ever since I found out about the eldritch references I've been so fascinated just sucks that Martin hasn't given more info on the farther parts of the world.

In regards to the sacrifices I believe the common thread is the blood of not just any one but the blood of a loved one. Referencing the sword of light and how it had to be created with the soul of his wife to imbue it with magic

Your lovecraft videos are the reason I subsrcibed and your ideas about asshai and yi ti seem to be so accurate and seems like the real game is between theese other entities, but when G.R.R.M talks about east of Qarth he says a lot of it was just a tip of the hat to lovecraft. How much of your plot ideas do you think are actually going to be relevant in or revealed in ASOIAF. Thanks for your time.

This is FANTASTIC!!!!!

when i see this channel realeses a 1 hour + vid im smiling thanks alot bro

I know this is older content on yours but I found you last night and have been on a MAJOR binge. I wish I was using YT back in 2018. I live in NYC and only got into using this platform during the middle of the first lockdown. Literally just finished reading Cthulhu myself a moment ago after watching your Halloween special on it. You will def be seeing my name in your comments from here on out! I am hooked.

You two were fracking AWESOME together

There are many magical and interesting things in SOFI so almost anything is possible (and I think you may be correct in things especially with ties to Lovecraft), is it also possible that much of what we know of the "The East" or other areas is actually made up within the series or the product of rumor, fear, and hate of the different or twisting of foreign religion/traditions? GRRM is has a keen sense of history and people, and people have always made up stories about things they don't understand or simply fear. A good example would be the old "here be dragons" on maps. Also people just make up legends/stories in general.. and maybe we are taking these as facts (such as Minotaur, Cyclops, etc. in our history). It would be interesting to look back in history and see what ancient people said of Asia, the middle east, and even the far north in the past and see if any of it is relevant to what is written in ASOIAF. It may not be identical but may follow similar veins. Loving the vidoes btw!

What about all the Dagon references in the books? Quite a few Greyjoys with the name and GRRM mentions how one looks very much like a phish. Such brilliant depth of writing. Great job with the podcast, very enjoyable!

Great video!!

Hey my brother, what is the background music you use? @ AsoIaf. } Id like to listen to before bedtime. Thanks.

Hardly hidden imo. The threat of looming cosmic horrors the the utterly un understandable is displayed prominently several times. Rhollor can be seen as an elder god stand in, and the white walkers, land of asshai, etc, it’s just outright cosmic horror at points.

Didn't the South Park's parody of the BP oil spill help renew interest in Lovecraft's work?

This is awesome but is it me or is the editing a bit choppy? The guest will start speaking and mid-word it cuts off in some places. Fascinating topics I gotta check out Green Hand podcast.

regarding kings blood, I always thought what they sacrificed with blood magic was the individuals future potential. So the more important your potential the better the sacrifice - someone who could be king sacrifices more than someone who'd be a farmer!

The talk about how far the blood of kings goes is something I’ve always thought about as well,,, very interesting 🧐

What if the entity that is bringing these "dreams" are from the same being? Why couldn't quathe disguise itself however it chose to whomever it chose?

This video is awesome such a cool trippy subject

wow that was really interesting!!

Honestly, you this made Elden Ring's story make more sense and also, Martin was way more involved than I had thought 💭🤔.

Im late to the party, but the irregular sonnet or poem"The Krakken" alfred lord tennyson is said to have inspired the Call of Cthulyu Mythos. " Below the thunders of the upper deep, Far, far beneath in the abysmal sea, His ancient, dreamless, uninvaded sleep The Kraken sleepeth: faintest sunlights flee About his shadowy sides; above him swell Huge sponges of millennial growth and height; And far away into the sickly light, From many a wondrous grot and secret cell Unnumbered and enormous polypi Winnow with giant arms the slumbering green. There hath he lain for ages, and will lie Battening upon huge sea worms in his sleep, Until the latter fire shall heat the deep; Then once by man and angels to be seen, In roaring he shall rise and on the surface die.

Too much awesome happening in one video!!

The human-animal hybrids are also represented in GRRMs 1000 Worlds with the Prometheans and Earth Ecological Core

Around 20:00, the reason the eastern region is so unknown is because of the Bone Mountains. They limit travel to only three pathways that are guarded.

This is just so awesome, thank you guys! I was wondering if you also see the connection between the dream from first Lovecraftian novel you mention and Bran's coma dream, when he gets tricked by the 3 Eyed Crow, but being a terrified child, does not realise it. (I was gonna edit that part out, but I had a brain fart) And I am wondering if some of the Lovecraft experts would be so kind to write or point me to a beginner's guide to his book, as in where to start, in which order shoud I read his books etc.

once again amazing! I think I heard you say you have read The Wheel of Time. If so could you do a video on some of the comparisons? Pick any topic, heck make a series! Thank you!

Sweeeeet. Love hearin' from you guys.

On the subject of the blood of gods and kings, perhaps the inbreeding of the Targaryan's is what gives their blood such power to the point where it literally gives them the magic ability to tame dragons.

GREAT show guys!!!!!

YES I wanted this for so long

Love this, well done.

Always a great thing to see! Though I'm kinda sad that no one seems to bring up Ithaqua in relation to the Whitewalkers.

IdeasOfIceAndFire, King Beyond the Tube!

Becoming a king makes your blood powerful. Look at Mance Raider. King beyond the wall. Not to say that Garth wasn't a diety though.

The kings all have Valyrian blood . Stannis and Robert’s ancestor was the rumored bastard of Agon

Great video guys