The Hidden Secret Message Behind Rey's Theme (Spoilers!) 

You mean THE SAME WAY GEORGELUCAS DID?

@@WesMordine but he wasn’t making up story along the way without a foundation. He was making changes here and there along the way with OT and PT but ST is different. They literally have no foundation. They just make up story without anything/any plan at all. Even after 7 is released, ep 9 doesn’t have any plan at all. Not even a draft or a brainstorm. That’s a red flag.

@@Theo-bk6qj no, that's how art works. The artists follow their muse. That's how Lucas decided to save Darth Vader (first name Darth, surname Vader), by someone else's suggestion, despite him just being a very secondary antagonist who has about 13 minutes total screentime and originally dying at the Death Star. Oops... he kinda made HIM the main character. That wasn't the plan AT ALL. That's how Lucas decided while filming that Obi-Wan should die, although that wasn't on his script. And because of it, he had to come up with Yoda. That's how Lucas decided Leia and Luke were twins, because the "there is another" line allowed him to, despite it not being the plan at all. Its just how the creative process works, and creators shouldn't need to get permission from the audience to follow their own ideas. Star Wars is at disadvantage because the fans think they have some kind of ownership over it (which we don't).

@@WesMordine He only improvised because there was nothing to begin with. The prequels WERE planned out hence why they tell a better story. The Original Trilogy reeks of improvisation, due to how things come out of the blue incomprehensively, but the prequels knew ahead of time where the story would go, and so everything fits seamlesly. Above all else, George Lucas' improvisation of the originals was an extremely risky move. He is lucky to have a consistent philosophy, style and charm put in his works, that can at least give them a semi-harmonious flow. The sequels have no excuse. They litterally had more foundation than all the other films combined. They have access to a style, worldbuilding, music theory, message, and philosphical theme more distinct than any ither sequel could ever DREAM to work with. They just didn't use it. They CHOSE not to use it. They chose not to use it because they believed people would enjoy nostalgia over a good plot, and would litterally cater to the public's opinion, which doesn't take a genius or an artist to immediately know this is a terrible idea. People want different things, people like different things, people say different things. Indirectly asking a litteral BILLION people what they want for the next one and letting the director do with it is just opening the floodgates of fucking Pandora's DAM. Disney doesn't want to tell a story, it wants to sell one. No plan. No opinion. Just nostalgia bait.

PotionsMaster007 that was my favorite part 😂😂😂

LONG MAY HE REIGN

Lord Commander John Williams is a genius and no one can say otherwise

He is the chaos god of the leitmotifs

Hahha

Rosalind Causey ME RN

@@roseannejeries8875 me forever now it seems like. 😣

SPOILER WARNING (just in case) Some things feel like they're compensating based on audience reaction - Chewie getting a medal some thirty-five years later (in-universe) comes to mind, as does the offhand Holdo Maneuver justification. Others, like Ben's arc, don't - if Abrams and Terrio had been looking at the fanbase's expectations, they wouldn't have written the ending like that. It makes me think that in the grand scheme of things, they probably weren't compensating based on audience reaction. Johnson and Abrams also probably didn't have the same idea in mind for the ending, but neither were focused on how the audience was going to react to it.

gosh me :))))))))

Yeah I still don't think it was planned. This video still looks like an over-analysis.

Pretty much! Also I think the reason why the opening theme is no longer associated with Luke is not only because of his evolution as a character, but also the theme is no longer associated with him but the Resistance. The early Jedi (Qui Gon, Obi Wan, et al.) and their allies (Padme, Bail, etc.) were the small stirrings of the Resistance that was to come with Luke, Leia, Han, and anybody associated with them. Where the Empire falls, the Resistance remains.

Another audio cue for Vader abandoning the mask that is much more visceral in the Radio Drama, is that the "Vader" voice of James Earl Jones is replaced by the voice of the actor wearing the suit once the mask comes off. He doesn't just abandon the mask of Vader, he abandons the voice, the theme, and the entire identity. Which is why the imperial march fades out, as the identity and persona of Darth Vader dies, to be replaced once more by Anakin Skywalker.

Especially with the flutes. It's very ephemeral, like smoke dissipating. Like you said, the evaporation of the Empire as a force of power in the galaxy.

Neither did George, and you can tell by the deleted scene in Empire with the two of them getting all romantic. People like to shit on Disney for not planning anything even though George didn't either, he didn't even know that he would get to do a sequel.

​​@@MrEffectfilmsThat's not comparable at all. George did have a rough outline of where he wanted the story to go. He was unsure if Star Wars would be a hit, so he made the movie as a self-contained story. When it did prove successful, he went ahead with the other ideas he had laid out. Disney didn't have a plan. They made their trilogy film by film based on audience reactions. J.J. Plagiarisms did a whole video debunking this false equivalence. Even if neither had a plan, that doesn't help Disney's case, as their unplanned disaster wouldn't compare to Lucas's unplanned masterpiece. Not to mention, you can't tell that from the deleted scene in Empire, as in the same movie, Han and Leia get romantic, so even in the back of his mind, Lucas was thinking of not having Luke and Leia end up together. And don't say "you" as if no one will wildly object to your statement. Not everyone is as unobservant as you.

@@imfsresidentotaku9699 Dude wtf is wrong with you. If you don't agree with me that's fine but insulting me for no reason is uncalled for. This is why I just don't respond to Sequel trilogy hate anymore, it's become acceptable to be horrible to people who are just trying to offer their own perspective. Read my comment, I never insulted anyone, I was never mean to anyone, I just offered my POV. The majority of your response was actually fine and I'll even admit you made some good points I hadn't considered, but that last bit was just uncalled for.

@@imfsresidentotaku9699 That's not true either. If you read the Rinzler books, (Making of Star Wars, Empire, Jedi), you'll see that Lucas didn't have much of an outline at all. Everything changed between movies, to the point that Mark Hamill threw a tantrum because he didn't get the girl and didn't get to do as many heroics as he was promised. Harrison Ford kept asking for his character to be killed off, and initially he was supposed to die between movies when frozen. That's why Empire ends on a cliffhanger and the promise that "there is another", because Lucas was trying to figure out exactly who was going to take the series further. Luke and Leia were initially lovers, Han would die, the Millenium Falcon would be destroyed along with Lando and Chewie in the final battle, and, in the end, Luke was supposed to disappear into the galaxy in a bittersweet ending. Star Wars has always, always, always been made up as it goes along.

Your name is awesome

res🅱ect

It generally shows that JJ was planning things, and that he probably told John Williams what he was planning, and then the middle movie generally took a dump on everything he had planned, so the third movie had to try and fix all that.

@@SanguineRoku TROS didnt have to fix anything. there were so many interesting places they could have gone. instead they converted two years of incel rage into a script.

I can agree

@@eighteen-naked-cowboys Not sure what's sadder, that you think there was interesting places to go after Last Jedi cut off all the branches, or that you're a deluded SJW who thinks anyone who didn't like this garbage trilogy are "incels".

jear What interesting places? I don’t blame The Rise of Skywalker or it’s crew for how shit the movie turned out. It’s no wonder, since they had no where to go from TLJ, since it ended off with basically nothing to keep up interest and resolve.

omg rachel your a celeb now

I wish Sideways called him the Master Lord Commander, because that is who John Williams is, and I actually saw him in person recently at the Tanglewood Festival in Berkshires in July.

What are you doing here? :00

RACHEL!!!! does Sideways knows you're here?!

Yep ! Starts with Palpatine but then is all the Jedi. ;-) So her theme makes total sense after all.

VictorJW also makes sense because [insert Rise Of Skywalker Spoiler]

which means her lineage was probably planned from the begining :)

@@user-zo8nl9be5l On my part, that's what I choose to believe :-)

@@user-zo8nl9be5l actually no, Ian Mccamird (I don't remember how to spell his name xD) said that only a year ago (like september 2018) he received a call from JJ saying that they were PLAINING to bring the emperor back so it was not smth anticipated at all

Their*

NoName thanks

And never underestimate the power of nerd theories scorned.

I prefer Geek

Your sad devotion to that ancient movie franchise hasn't helped you conjure up excitement for the sequel franchise nor has it given you clairvoyance to appease fans of Starwa-ghgjskjgh

Omg, he figured it all out

He's a Sith Lord.

@@charlottefitton6518 A sith Lord?

notabot 2001 what’s sad is that almost every single prediction of the future of this saga has come correct in that the RU-vidrs have predicted Disney’s complete failure of Star Wars. Literally any other company could have pulled off a better job. What’s sad is that George Lucas was completely disheartened by the response to the prequels and has mentioned several times he will never direct another Star Wars film ;(

I like the prequels

Luca Henry the main problem is different directors for episodes 7 and 8 Because J.J. Abrams probably had a plan for the new trilogy and then, Rian Johnson came and threw away all of Abrams’ ideas, then when Abrams came back to the directing, he decided to revenge, and he did the same thing to Jonson Because of all that there is no complete story in sequels And also some story lines were broken, so there is no consistency of the story especially between episodes 8 and 9 Imao:)

2 years later and this video couldn't be any more right about that, haha!

hmmm... they put palpatines theme in reys, and now years later we find out shes his granddaughter so clearly they knew what they were doing. People just cant get over the shitty visual quality of the original movies

My Reylo ass is trembling.

I just realized... music aside, The Last Jedi was trying to force that down our throats: "Let the past die", again and again. I just realized why. They started the Disney Trilogy with item after item of "that thing you really like from Star wars? It's gone now." Luke is missing, the Empire is gone, the Rebellion is gone. In fact, look here at all the things from before lying in ruins on this planet you've never heard of. we've destroyed all the stuff you liked. And there was some negativity around that, because we wanted more Star wars, not just the exact same Star wars with new names. Like Rogue One. That was very much more Star wars. TFA was just Star wars again. TLJ was ironically clinging to the old Star wars plot elements, while telling you to let go of the old Star wars. And literally wasting half its run time on a meaningless story arc. I for one do not mean to let the past die. The past was the good part. Rogue One was good because it lived in the past (and other reasons). TFA is literally a bad fanfiction. TLJ is a bad fanfiction of that bad fanfiction.

TheOtherGuys2 I think that for the audiences that don’t know the original trilogy, especially the younger ones, it was a good movie. I enjoyed TLJ solely for the reason it was letting the past die. I found it interesting that they were taking it into new places and doing things that were so unexpected. Sure, there were flaws, but you gotta admit, the casino scene was visually amazing. I think, personally, that it was a good movie because of the message it sent. Failure. Everyone in this movie fails at some point or time. That can speak to so many people in this day and age. And even though the past is dying, it is time for a change. I think Disney and Lucasfilm realizes that they can’t just hold on to these characters forever, especially after getting backlash that TFA was “too similar to ANH”. For me, the movie was great. I enjoyed so many parts of it, from the amazing cinematography to the crazy plot twists (My snoke theory sucked but honestly he wasn’t super interesting to me either) to the absolutely great music we got from John Williams (can you tell I love him yet) Anyways, you’re entitled to your own opinion. Not everyone liked the movie, not everyone disliked the movie. But I agree, the past is dying. And to me, that’s what made it great. I think we can both agree that the music is pretty awesome though 😉

The part about A New Alliance being the same as the Kylo vs Rey music is simply not true. I just listened to both songs... in Kylo vs Ren it's not even the Force theme, never mind "the exact same version"

@@TheOtherGuys2 you know “let the past die” isn’t the message of the movie right? you know you’re not supposed to agree with the villain right?

It was great

HAHA

@@ritz1515 hello there

@@icewarriorcz7616 GENERAL KENOBI

@@vid5506 Yeah, it wasn't.

So everyone has the same leitmotif as Space Jesus

firewordsparkler well then the film is gonna suck if it’s spoiled

ITS BLOODY TRUE THOUGH! ARRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGG!

GamingRanger Knowing the plot of a movie does not ruin the movie, not by a long shot. If that was the case, we wouldn't rewatch our favorite films over and over again. Films are not suddenly worthless just because the plot is revealed, and frankly it's getting pretty old seeing everyone on the internet treating "spoilers" like the plague.

Parrot Ox knowing what’s gonna happen ruins a movie. Especially if it has twist and especially if it is a mystery.

GamingRanger Have you ever watched a movie more than once, for no other reason than you enjoy the experience? If you answer yes, then your argument is invalid.

Well, that, and it plays when the Falcon is soaring. So of course we'd be able to use the love theme for Han and Leia's home.

@Catherine Heridis you're the moron lmao "Rey as Ben Solo's sister" ?? 💀💀

@Catherine Heridis I hope you don't still believe that Ben and Rey are siblings... because yeah that would make their kiss a whole lot more awkward

The trailer for Rise of Skywalker has the theme for Princess Leia in the background which is probably used as tribute to Carrie Fisher, RIP.

Catherine Heridis This... did not age well

And proves how genius John Williams is.

The worldbuilding was all on him though, which I thought was very good. I love the sequels, but for the most part, the worldbuilding has been lackluster compared to the OT and the prequels.

It's not that he didn't have a clue, but that things change over development. For anyone who is interested, I highly recommend Sfdebris' behind the scenes Analysis of the making of the Star wars Movies: Hero's Journey on the original, Shadow's Journey on Empire and Jedi, and the currently on-going Hermit's Journey on the prequels

George Lucas is bad at making up ideas. See example: the prequels, because Lucas surrounded himself with people who refused to criticise any of his awful decisions throughout the creation of the prequels, so all of his ideas were put into the movies. The movies are therefore shit.

Disney knows this: its why they gave a trilogy to Rian Johnson. Kathleen Kennedy is not going to be shepherding her creative vision for this sequel trilogy. They need one voice to rule over them all, its how the OT was successful.

So is life when you think about it.

General Red I like that. I always figured that the hollow sound given by the strings and woodwinds symbolizes both the death of Darth Vader (an agent of the Empire) and showing what the Empire and the Dark Side have done to him (as reinforced in RotS)

I've figured that several themes within the STAR WARS series have multiple purposes. For example, the Imperial March represents _both_ Vader and the Empire, and is even used as a theme for the Galactic Republic in Episode II. The "Force Theme" has famously never really had a name, and has been called that, as well as Binary Sunset, Obi-Wan's Theme, and the Throne Room Music because of its many different uses already within the original film. It _is_ basically the secondary theme of STAR WARS.

@@johnhooyer3101 When I search "galactic republic" with literally any other things such as "attack of the clones" in my search for what you're talking about, the ONLY result is the Grand Army of the Republic Theme. That song is most definitely NOT the Imperial March... like, at all... Please link with what you're talking about.

@@Richard_Nickerson It was a while ago that I read about this, so I don't know where the link was, but it wasn't necessarily presented as an ironclad association. The point that was being made is that John Williams's themes tend to evolve and and grow connections to new ideas, not explicitly but in that mysterious way that music communicates without saying a word. As for the Grand Army of the Republic theme, I always saw that as a leitmoteif for the clones and the Clone Wars as a whole, but not necessarily a theme conveying the authority commanding them itself. If you want to go with the extended universe, there is a galactic theme called "All Stars Burn as One", but it isn't in the films and isn't a John Williams composition, and is no longer canon. So officially, there is no actual anthem, and people are free to interpret that however they like based off of how the music speaks to them in the films, as well as statements from supplementary materials that they may give credence to.

@@johnhooyer3101 So... you have no proof for your claim, so now you're going from saying it's a definite thing to people are allowed to interpret things the way they want. You said it was exactly the same. I said I can't find anything by that name, and what I could find is nowhere near the same. Now you're trying to say people can interpret things how they want... Don't make claims you can't prove, don't make claims that are so easily disproved. Don't simply try to backtrack, just admit you were wrong. Your comment has 3 likes... you've given at least 3 people completely incorrect information with no basis and they could now be spreading this misinformation themselves. Is it a super important thing? No, it's Star Wars music. But spreading misinformation in general is wrong and should be called out.

When did the other heroes set aside their true name?? And becoming the essence of a Skywalker is kinda demeaning, tbh; like Rey has no value in-verse as a person or jedi unless she is somehow associated with Skywalkeryness. 99.9% of other jedi who ever existed had nothing to do with them, so... wha??

there is still hope for the music of star wars through the golden trio of goransson, giaccino, and kiner. 3 men who understand the majesty and wonder of star wars' soundscape like few other than williams truly do.

@@nickwooden5661 Indeed, Goranssons tracks for Ahsoka are some of the best soundtracks I have ever heard for a character.

Yeah she is my daughter

Said idots who arent familiar with the jedi code

@@batmitesolos7097 *granddaughter

@@leonardochapman4736 I used yo br obi wan kenobi thus explaining this

@@batmitesolos7097 ok

Basically what I'm thinking. There are several themes in _STAR WARS_ that represent both characters and ideas at the same time. The theme discussed in this video actually has no name, because it's simultaneously known as Obi-Wan's Theme, Binary Sunset, the Force Theme, and the Throne Room Music. It has secondary and even tertiary uses, and really does functionally serve as the secondary theme for STAR WARS.

Actually, Williams acknowledges the theme as "The Force Theme." He's used that term when talking about it's chordal relationship with Rey's Theme.

Erik Woods but it should have been put in A New Hope but not the prequels. A New Hope has the original imperial theme which was used in Rogue One when you see Vader.

Qui Qon Jinn has the BEST theme!

Yes, there is an original motif for the Empire in Star Wars. The Imperial March is more of a theme for Vader but gets doubled up as a theme for the Empire post-A New Hope. As for its use in the prequels.... Again, it's used mostly as a theme for Vader... however, it is, IMO, incorrectly used during the final scene in Attack of the Clones when the clone tropers are taking off from Coruscant. That should have been, IMO, a grand statement of The Emperors theme and not The Imperial March.

Ugh. It was SO BAD.

Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. They DID rewrite some stuff to focus more "on the new characters", whatever that means, but I can't imagine Rian changing everything that in the script.

K-Riddle93 New Star Wars don't get test screened with audiences for fear of spoilers. And Rian was hired before production was over, so there wasn't even an in-house rough cut available yet

PolarPhantom Rian started working on TLJ before TFA was even filming, and I think principle photography already started shortly after it was released so they had the story planned out and were building sets long after anything could be drastically changed. Also, why would Disney have listened to the people who hated TFA when that was a very small portion of the audience.

@@sergioizzaqt7707 Well to be fair that's exactly what they did with TROS...

Annie That’s what JJ did. Why do people talk about the Disney corporation like it’s a person?

True. I did not pay attention to it while watching, so maybe it was overused, but I didn't notice. I also think playing the force theme during the force projection would've been a dead giveaway. But I'm just nitpicking really, great analysis on the whole.

Even in Force Awakens...it was used with a lot less subtlety. Like, its not horrible or anything (it makes sense for someone who's passionate for music to call it out tho) but just when compared to how the original 6 movies handled it...it could have been done better...

The force them could've played the moment it was revealed.

Overall I really liked The Last Jedi but there was some musical decisions (which I unfortunately think were asked for by Rian Johnson) that seemed a little overwrought - something about the way Vader's theme played when Snoke mentioned him just seemed a little on the nose somehow

Totally agree. Especially since Sideways points out that the "Main Theme" is actually Luke's theme, wouldn't it be weird for the trailers/movies to focus on his theme when he's not the center of the story?

Well because Williams' can't decide Rey's parentage, Kylo and Reys' connection, etc. But Disney can. He can only be prepared to have those themes fit and make sense no matter what they pick. Which is pretty awesome.

I was thinking more specifically when he accuses Disney of overusing the force theme. Marketing aside, for all we know Williams decided to make the force theme big in the new trilogy, but because Sideways doesn't approve of that decision it's automatically cast as Disney, not 'genius composer John Williams'. Additionally the evidence that there was no planning for future episodes is pretty scant, I mean it could be but the case isn't that compelling either way. This is a musical version of the too many fantheories problem which people seem to have, where based on pretty out there theories people were wedded to ideas about who Rey's parents are. An alternative hypothesis might be a) Disney has a plan and williams knows about it b) he made Rey and Kylo's themes retrograde of each other to represent their yin yang relationship which is a big deal in the new movie, c) The match with the Imperial march was designed for Kylo who works as a new incarnation of the empire/vader, and this resulted in Rey's theme also fitting with the march.

He seems to be part of the RLM Hivemind of people that loathe Lucas AND loathe Disney but somehow claim to be fans of Star Wars* (*just New Hope and Empire Strikes Back of course, the other seven are awful!)

Yeah, I love how his bitching about the Force Theme is explained as if Disney doesn't understand the property, when in reality it's Williams who was the one that decided to use it that much. This is the problem with any Star Wars film: Fans think they know *exactly* how the next one should go, and will tear apart the tiniest pieces that don't fit. They forget that Lucas was making it all up as he went along and treat the OT as if they're seamless(Disney might not have a fully mapped out plan, but at least we can safely assume we won't find out Finn and Rose are actually siblings and that their kiss at the end was creepy af). And worst of all, Star Wars fans forget that Star Wars is a film series that needs to take into account general audience reaction. The main theme gets used so little not because Lucas and Disney don't know what they're doing, but because it's just easier to work The Force Theme into different scenes without distracting audiences. You can tone down the main theme, but everyone is still going to immediately associate it with the bombastic version that has accompanied every opening crawl in the series. It needs to be used sparingly because it is DISTRACTING, and requires a lot of rewriting to fit. The Force Theme fits into different scenes more easily, can represent more emotions, and is just as iconic.

You're full of shit. People hate the new Star Wars because the story wasnt executed well. It has nothing to do with the typical age old argument of accusing fans of not having their theories confirmed. Star Wars 8 could have been the most amazing movie of the series if a little more time and thought went into how the story they were trying to tell was written. I was fine with concepts that were introduced, I was fine with Lukes character PROVIDING that it was done in a way that was meaningful.

Brooks Alderman It’s amazing how Williams constructed such a universal theme for Rey that ultimately was flexible enough for any path ROTS took

Funny how they didn't even realise this when making the films

Brooks Alderman yeah but that wasn’t planned when Force Awakens was made. Palpatine coming back was just a last minute thing due to the Last Jedi writing everyone into a corner. It would’ve made more sense for Rey to have Palpatine’s theme in hers, not Vader’s, though.

@@aguy1272 they did

@@ImThePerson0 it was planned from the beginning

i know right? in a guitarist's perspective, i can say we all have our favorite go to licks that we pull out of the bag, just like our idols that's why we there are times we can recognize the guitarist due to their "signature sound" and i guess that kind of thinking applies to john williams. they make it that way to make it sound nostalgic, and to make it sound like it's star wars. it's not gonna have the same nostalgic effect if they're gonna put it music that won't be familiar to the ear.

Superphilipp But... That wont fit his head canon!!!!!!!!!!

I think it may be this. When I hear Rey's theme I always think of Harry Potter and not other star wars music.

John Williams has his go-to sounds when making certain kinds of films, and I've noticed that _STAR WARS_ is definitely designed so that everything sounds related. Like, the Rebellion is Reborn theme sounds very much related to Yoda's Theme and Anakin's Theme . But then, on the other hand, I've listened to Williams score for _Catch Me If You Can,_ _Schindler's List,_ _Lincoln,_ _Saving Private Ryan,_ _Memoirs of a Geisha,_ _The Book Thief,_ _Close Encounters of the Third Kind,_ and a bunch of other films, and multiple Olympic games, and when you look at his entire folio, he has a lot of variety. I can often tell when a good piece of music is _not_ by him (for example, _La La Land_ is good but definitely not _quite_ how he would compose something, except for perhaps Mia and Sebastian's Theme), but it's also clear from the complexity of his orchestrations that he knows exactly what he's doing when two pieces sound similar to each other, _especially_ when they're within the same ongoing story.

Sometimes, we get a bit too analytical. When looking too far in, we see blurry shapes we think are what we are looking for.

No, the movie was just too fast for anyone to process the new content lol

@@colleencasey5327 I'm mostly just giving an excuse to myself so that I don't give my hopes up for a video on the movie, but I suppose you could say that.

Nafinkle “I’ve hidden something inside this theme...”

"it doesn't represent Vader, it represents the Empire" Literally the original soundtrack: it represents Vader

I mean in 7 Rey uses a similar charging stance as Palpatine's lunge in the arrest scene in 3. She was also born extremely adept in the force but untrained. You can see how Kylo is of similar power while his grandfather too had a high midichlorian count from Anakin. I think Rey's force powers are similar to Kylo's since Palpatine is the most powerful force user in history but Rey is untrained. Of course Anakin was the light side equal to that of Palpatine when combined with the much lesser power overall from the rest of the Jedi Order. I choose to think that the trained offspring of Anakin Skywalker can match the untrained offspring of Palpatine. I drew this conclusion from the Voice Actor of Kanan Jarrus (I forget how to spell it) when he ranted on a podcast how balance in the force is essentially a numerical value in the light/dark battle of the universe.

I don’t think it was necessarily planned all along, considering there were 2 separate directors that had 2 different views on the story of the “sequel trilogy.” A lot of people were not too fond of Rian Johnson’s The Last Jedi and when they brought back J.J. Abrams for Episode IX, Abrams had to essentially fix the problem with the story, but when writing the plot for IX, Abrams knew that Palpatine would have to make a return. While George Lucas was still working on the original trilogy in the 80s, he stated that he had enough material for 3 earlier films and 3 later films, making a total of 9 films. In his outlined material for the saga, he wanted the Palpatine to make a return in the 9th episode. Although Abrams didn’t initially know how he would implement the resurrection of Palpatine, he did, and he wanted the plot twist of making Rey, his grand-daughter.

I don't get it either. I honestly think a lot of people just have their heads so far up in their ass with fan theories and minutiae that they are unable to remember that these are movies first-and-foremost and that they won't necessarily go in the direction you want them to. Look at how annoyed this guy seemed about the Force theme supplanting the main theme, when it's more likely a result of practicality than Disney "not getting it." The Force Theme is equally iconic, can fit tons of different scenes more easily, and hasn't blared at the audience in full bombastic glory at the beginning of every Star Wars film. No matter how you rearrange it, if the main theme is recognizable it will be far more distracting than the Force Theme is unless you want to emphasize the action and adventure in the scene(and even then, it's SO iconic and bound up with the start of a Star Wars film it could be distracting). I wasn't a huge fan of Luke's character in this episode either(especially towards the beginning), but it works and makes sense as one perfectly valid direction to take the character. Just because I wouldn't have chosen it doesn't mean it literally ruins the character and the film is stupid.

It makes no sense from a narrative point of view. I dont think anyone had a problem with Luke being the way he was portrayed, you simply have to have a good enough narrative that can explain that, and frankly what WAS presented was not executed very well. The man who was ready to sacrifice himself for a father he knew all of about 15 minutes, would never just kill his own nephew for having dark side problems .... at least, not without a very good reason. Thats the whole thing, people arent made about the result they are mad about the reasoning behind that result, and I think a lot of them just have trouble articulating it.

Max Acree The issue here was that they didn't show just what it was that Luke saw in his vision regarding Ben Solo. If they had shown us and it had been super fucked up, I don't think people would have as many problems with it. I, for one, loved the movie, but I do see its flaws.

Cheezmonka I only noticed this the 3rd time I watched it, but when Luke senses dark in Kylo, there is sounds of screaming and death.

I think Force Awakens was better, but the Last Jedi was still really good, and definitely doesn’t deserve how much hate it’s getting

I don't get why a lot of people are pissed about a character who shows us you don't have to be pushed out of the right vagina to be an awesome hero. She reminds me of Kyle Katarn.

It was established for a long time that anyone could be born to have a special relationship with the Force. The Jedi, after all, apparently found children born with it all of the time. The key issue is mainly that the Skywalkers are canonically far more powerful than anyone else in the Galaxy because they have some sort of special destiny with the Force, and I don't quite understand how Rey is consistently more powerful than them without even trying. The theme of a person coming from nowhere from no parents of any reknown was already covered in Anakin, and it was already established that he was the Chosen One with a special destiny for balancing the Force (and by extension, I suppose, his progeny, according to statements by Lucas and Kennedy), so having Rey come from nowhere is a little redundant and kind of undercuts the narrative over seven episodes that the Skywalker family drama was really building up to something. The other reason why I don't quite like her being from nowhere is that, if you watch the saga as one film as Lucas often said was his intention for it, it would be pretty weird to suddenly replace all of the characters a third of the way through with someone unrelated to anything that happened previously within the story. That's generally not how stories are told. Otherwise, I like the movie and will defend it against what critics have to say, because I don't have time for that kind of negativity. I'm also not too upset with the reveal of Rey's parents, because the story isn't over yet and it could easily be that Ben was wrong.

Rey most likely has parents. It's obvious she will and that Kylo was telling her she was nobody and her parents were nobodies to get her to lean on him and join him. John Boyega also said in an interview to please let the Obi wan theory go and that he has our backs as the parents will be pleasing to us.

I can understand why many see Rey having great powers especially comparative to that of the Skywalkers can be a bit odd, but keep in mind, we shouldn't be too surprised if the force acts much strangely in others despite what others may talk about it when it comes to prophecies or old lore, because the whole point of the force is that it is something unpredictable, unimaginable, and completely supernatural. So don't be surprised if new great lineages and familylines are born over the course of many years. Hell, look at others who came from stories outside of prophecies who were mega powerful in their force abilities. Look at Yoda, or Revan, or hell, even some of the most well-known and loved characters from the original EU that has seemed to inspire many parts of Canon, including Kyle Katarn, aka basically just another kid with family issues and separated from his father who decided to quit being a Stormtrooper, fight for the rebellion, become a student of Luke's, and eventually realize his true potential and all the powers he had to begin with, making him one of the most powerful and legendary Jedis ever. So good for Rey that she seems to be embodying what Kyle Katarn stood for in this new canon storyline, while at the same time writing her character so that she is actually unique in how she is self-obsessed, self-hating, can't accept her past, depressed, lonely, and at points cowardly, but instead through her struggles and tribulations and seeing how others such as Ren suffer the same fate as her, decides to use her issues to try and help others instead of just letting them suffer. Aka why some of my favorite scenes in Star Wars cinematic history are the interactions she has with Ren in The Last Jedi.

I'm still hoping for some indication as to what the Force Awakening actually means. As of right now, it's a Deus Ex Machina used to swipe aside old characters and replace them with new ones that are cooler without having to do much work for it (although I won't really call Rey a Mary Sue, since Mary Sues are poorly written and only endearing because the author tells you so, whereas Rey is genuinely someone you can sympathize with and root for). I'm okay with the Force being mysterious, but I also think that it should be consistent; it will finish anything that it sets out to start. That is, if there was a Chosen One, there has to be some narrative follow-up to that prophecy, since otherwise Anakin's destiny is still incomplete and the entire first six episodes of the saga are similar to the Canto Bight sequence, a giant narrative detour. Although I will actually defend the Canto Bight sequence as well, oddly enough. For the record, I never really liked the old EU canon and didn't like Revan. Yoda made sense, since he was incredibly old and wise and more trained than Anakin ever was, and also it was indicated that he was quantifiably the Jedi with the second-highest potential after Anakin (which I know, that's because of a discussion about midi-chlorians that ticks people off, but it's canon). As for Dark Lords seeming more powerful than the Skywalkers, it's usually indicated that a) they have access to secret knowledge, and b) the Dark Side _seems_ more powerful but in reality is only easier. So Sidious and Snoke made sense. Perhaps Rey channels the dark far more than she imagines. The movie certainly indicates that, and if that's the case, I'd like to see that theme more fully addressed. Is that why she's able to master various Force abilities in one day, when it normally takes Jedi years? In any case, I want to see definitive resolution to the Skywalkers' calling. If they're the Chosen Ones, and basically the great mediators for the Force, then at some point I want to see them fulfill a destiny related to this identity, because narratively, if you're watching the saga in a marathon, that's what makes sense.

Julian Whiteway But it must fit his anti disney motives!!!!!!!

Quite the opposite. Certainly Disney didn't have every single detail about every single character fleshed out in 2015, but they'd be morons not to have an outline for an overall arc. The trilogy is about Rey and Ben. All their interactions occur on screen, which is the story we're being told. Everything else is peripheral happenstance. A lot of things in Rise of Skywalker was definitely installed to pacify the fanbabies, but I truly believe Rey having a connection to Palpatine was always the idea.

@@FatPigInTheHouse I agree

Relatedly, it's hard to take "Disney doesn't have a plan!" as some sign of incompetence or evil corporate apathy when we're talking about the same series whose most beloved installment involves a kiss and romantic tension between two characters we find out are siblings in a future film. As great as the OT is, Lucas had no real plan at all either, and made up a lot of it as he went along(and it shows a LOT, guaranteed far worse than the ST ever will).

Gwen C Yeah, despite Lucas’s claims, it’s clear that he didn’t have it all planned beforehand. He didn’t know who was related to whom, he didn’t know who was going to die, he didn’t know what Jabba looked like, until he needed to. (Which is great, because it means it’s possible to make a classic series one movie at a time.)

We can be eternally thankful that Irvin Kershner directed Empire Strikes Back. He was the one who pushed for more character development, better dialogues, and a more intricate story - basically redefining what *is* Star Wars: not just a simple archetype tale with groundbreaking design (thanks to Ralph McQuarrie's concepts and ILM). Some of it was planned by Lucas, but I really wonder how much of it made it on screen. It's the movie he had the least to do with. I'm pretty sure that Episode 5 defined the SW mythos more than A New Hope originally did.

Considering it's the composer's fulltime job to consider these things, and the composers mentioned are among the best of the best, it isn't altogether unlikely.

Fair enough.

None of this was a secret. The director of The Last Jedi openly admitted Disney didn't have a plan.

His point is Disney ISNT planning any of this. SOunds like the exact opposite of a conspiracy theory to me lol

Catherine H. a) I don’t see how me commenting that suggests that my mom fucks people for a living b) where did I say that Ren « deserved » to be a Skywalker more than Rey? c) Parentage doesn’t have to do with « merit », you don’t choose/deserve your parent d) Rey being a Skywalker would have been the easiest narrative decision they’d have ever done. And it would have made no sense(eg: Is now Luke someone who would abandon a child? Some people already hate him being « isolated/sad/done with the force », if on top of that, he would have sold a kid... e) her coming from nowhere is what’s interesting about this trilogy, how would there be an « awakening » if she would be a Skywalker So anyway, i don’t expect you to underatand, if you were stupid enough to wish for Rey to be a Skywalker when watching TLJ, you’re pretty much too far gone. Have a good day.

Jon Forsythe This is a perfect analysis. The fact that Rey's parents are nobodies calls back to Anakin's origins.

SAMAKUSgamer Well, he *was* of virgin birth.

I don't think he was all that upset.

TLJ did have at least one completely new leitmotif: Rose Tico‘s theme.

"This is why over speculations actually do more harm than good. " Totally agreed, over speculation is also the main issue with the Star Wars fandom. They get so wrapped up in minute details that they forget that they may be wrong, and they become so obsessed with making everything fit into place that once an answer comes they backlash. Honestly, in hindsight Abrams may have been the worst choice to make TFA. His brand of mystery-baiting appeals to the worst tendencies of the Star Wars fandom, and is inevitably either disappointing or eats up screentime to properly explain. It's an imperfect solution, but Rian Johnson did the right thing by just refusing to play with Abrams' mystery box. TLJ was never going to be well-received by the fans no matter what it did, and I suspect opinions will change very favorably as time goes by; despite what fans say, TLJ isn't objectively terrible and poorly written. It has it's flaws(the humor was WAY over top imo), but critical consensus has been very favorable for a reason. If anything, I'm a bit worried about how Abrams will finish the next film. But I'm crossing my fingers he does a good job.

Peasant of Pontus nice argument. The point is that Lucas treated Star Wars nearly the same way, making it up as he went and that’s fucking indisputable given the fact that the actors and cowriters all said that’s what happened.

Maz literally tells Rey, in a pivotal scene, that her parents aren't coming back. The subtext that they're nobodies is not subtle. The Last Jedi simply made that reality explicit. Rian did very little that was not clearly set up by JJ in The Force Awakens. I feel like a lot of the people whining about this movie online are either not very observant viewers or unfamiliar with the language of cinema, because a lot of this stuff was very clearly established in the previous film and people are acting like it's some huge surprise.

AUMOTmusic Yeah, Maz also says "You already know the truth", just what Ben said to Rey.

AUMOTmusic this exactly. There was never any indication that Rey’s parents were special and there was never any indication that snoke was secretly some character we knew either, that was all stupid fan speculation and then those “fans” threw a hissyfit when their speculation and theories weren’t in the film

lolololol JJ Abrams definitely put Rey's parents in the mystery box he created in Episode 7

Miles A López HELLO MILES

2020!!

Good points! Let's not also venomously spit out "they don't have a solid plan!" as if this is some unprecedented thing and a reflection of corporate greed. Lucas definitely didn't have a solid plan for a proper trilogy, and ended up fucking up continuity so badly that RotJ retroactively made *all* the scenes hinting towards a "will she choose Luke or Han?" love-triangle in the previous films extremely creepy.

Crypteken Got anything to back this up?

*whispers* reylooo *runs away*

Also, at some point you're bound to find things if you play around with a piece enough. Sure, if you play Rey's Theme backwards and slow it down you can find something similar to the Imperial March or whatever, but you could also play enough records backwards and find 'secret messages' that indicate the band who made it worship Satan. At some point, Star Wars fans forget that this shit isn't meant to be pulled apart as much as it is. This is the same series where the Planet Destroying Death Star has to wait for a planet to get out of the way so it can blow up a rebel base on a moon. It's fun schlock that has an emphasis on emotion and mythic storytelling. Relax, people.

I think both of you misunderstood the video's message (and John Williams in general). It was a well-known fact even before this video came out that Disney didn't have a solid plan (story-wise) for the new trilogy like let's say the MCU has. That doesn't mean that the evil Disney Overlords are ruining Star Wars, and I don't think this video claims that. Also, yes, Williams reuses small ideas from previous films etc, but it's not randomly or without thought. It would be grossly under-estimating his skills as a composer to suggest that his theme for Rey fits all those different characters' themes at once by accident. Yes, Star Wars isn't meant to be pulled apart as much as it is, but its music can definitely be pulled apart this much, given the genius of the composers...

Darth Mickey is definitely tightening his grip on my favorite fandom though.

Ooooooor, hear me out here, _John Williams purposely included those "Easter Eggs" in Rey & Kylo Ren's themes because he plans on using _*_ALL_*_ of them._ Either the next one's gonna suck, or it'll be absolutely nuts.

Nate The_Great - Well, it ended up being both. Nutty and sucky, thanks to Disney’s lack of direction.

Emporer Palpatine

AUMOTmusic Hes a hater, he just hides it because he has actual empathy unlike other youtubers

AUMOTmusic Dude he’s saying the facts. Hi Abrams just submitted his pitch for episode 9. Which means they literally weren’t planned ahead.

DeclaringPond 22 - Ah, yes, because everyone who dislikes the new Star Wars films and Disney are just haters, right?

Because HE KNEW. There was a general plan, OF COURSE.

If Rey's theme had more originality to it, and the sequels were planned with that original idea in mind...then that's how you can foreshadow something without flat out giving it away. (It's why its okay for the Prequels...ironically...to reuse music from the OT to "foreshadow" future events that we already know about)

It's not the same at all. Leitmotifs represent vague concepts rather than arcs or characters. A leitmotif referencing Rey's connection to Kylo can mean a multitude of different things, regardless of backstory.

I think the only thing anyone should be angry about is the utter lack of vision on Disney's part when it comes to the Star Wars franchise. How intellectually disingenuous do you have to be to announce an epic fantasy trilogy without any idea about how it will play out, or even a vague concept of where it's headed. Just pathetic smh.

Pretty much, yeah. The problem with Star Wars nerds is they get so into this shit that they go nuts when something isn't perfect. People are bitching that "these aren't planned!" as if it's some giant conspiracy being hidden away by Disney, the evil corporation it apparently is. No shit they're keeping themselves flexible, it's almost like there is a major fandom with obsessive fans who pour over every detail and are prone to backlash against even the dumbest things("REY IS A MARY SUE!") and are unable to handle the tiniest bit of change("Why do they suddenly think the Force Theme is the main theme?!" "Because it's more flexible, less bombastic, equally iconic, and it's original thematic element is shared by multiple characters...?" "No, they just don't *GET* it!"). This isn't new, and it's not some slamdunk condemnation against the new films. Let's not ignore the fact that original trilogy having slightly jumbled leitmotifs is the least of it's problems. RotJ left the first two films had a fucking incestuous love triangle FFS. If they can avoid that, they've done better than the OT. God I hate Star Wars nerds.

Gwen C I'm not even a Star Wars nerd, idiot. In terms of business decisions it's just fucking retarded on Disney's part. What true fans they have left are being replaced by the hollow scrubs of the world who couldn't care less about continuity and are happy just mindlessly cheering at every release regardless of quality. And it's just fucking sad and funny that this is what's become of the most profitable franchise ever.

I mean, Rey’s whole thing is literally about being balance. She’s the light that rose to balance out the darkness in Kylo, but she also has great balance inside herself. As Snoke says: there is darkness in her, with great light to balance it out. I feel like Rey is the personification of the balance the galaxy needs: not the empire governed by Sith, and not the old republic that was essentially built on and governed by the Jedi. Maybe she’s the happy middle ground and her theme represents that? .... I should really stop writing essays about Star Wars in RU-vid comments

Oh, so that was what the Last Jedi was trying to say to the audience? Nice of Rian Johnson to call you and explain his fever dream of a movie. That makes it an even greater failure.