Destro’s head in later incarnations always bothered me because they no longer use the vac metal process. I felt that was key to his look. Can’t imagine an R2 without it either.
Destro's head was the best, I always wished Cobra Commander's mask was done the same way (I'm aware now that it's gotta be the whole piece, or else blue paint on top of vac metal). That said, Classified Destro's head is pretty shiny with the shiny paint. Though I'd LOVE a vac metal version.
Wow this brings back memories! I worked in prototyping for the cosmetics industry over a decade ago and we vacuum metalized a lot of parts. We did a lot of models, tubes, compacts, caps and things of that nature for all the big names. I would spray a few coats of a high solids polyurethane clear coat to protect the finish and prevent chipping. I also did most of the color matching, painting and special effects for clients before everything got approved and shipped off to China for mass production. Very cool stuff, not sure if it's done that way anymore.
One of those toy books quotes an older maker saying “metalizing” was something they try as line was dying. It came to mind when the gold Star Wars figures came out. On the other hand, Micronauts/ Microman used it from day 1. Ball jointed heads, weapons, robot parts. All the contact points wore down. Still love them. Anyone remember getting cement on model car chrome parts? Good times.
10 to 15 yrs ago I made headlights and we used to vac metal them in a vacuum chamber. It was a pretty cool process. Naturally I did a bunch of figure pieces but some of the figures were made of plastic that was way too soft so to get it to stick I'd have to paint them with clear coat first. I could only do silver but the more I would put the figure in the chamber it would turn gold and eventually purple.
And don't forget Fans toys... All Dinos have vac metal on articulated parts and so far my set is immaculate, with the exception of Slag (first release) wich has some flaking on the crest of the Dino head. I guess the old owner is the one to blame for that.
There is another consideration regarding vac metal, and probably forms the other reason it causes problems with articulation. Vac metal adds a tiny layer of material to the parts being coated. Which depending on how precise the design tolerances are, can have some major impacts. One of the reasons Lego very very rarely uses vac metal is because the tolerances are so precise for Lego pieces, that they have to use special tooling to mold the parts to be chromed, that accommodate that slight thickness that the metal adds, so the part remains in system tolerance with other Lego pieces, and can attach and pull apart the same. To understand where this becomes a problem for an action figure, look at how many figures share parts and tooling. You can’t just take a Hasbro “BuckyCap” Buck or Body and metal use it. The joints and articulation points will be under stress due to the slightly additional material. (Ever had a chrome figure squeak as you move the arms of legs? That’s what’s going on). As action figure design gets more precise and detailed, metal plating becomes more complicated. This is why we don’t see a fully shiny chrome Marvel Legends Silver Surfer. Because it’s way more economical to use shared body tooling for a figure like that, than invest in limited use tooling to account for the extra material. Some things with limited points of connection, such as Hero’s Breastplate are less of an issue.
This is kind of like a "Mr. Wizard" episode, where science is explained (& I love it). I always wondered about vac-metal, but never really took the time out to research it. I think the 1st vac-metal toy I ever owned was the dinobot, Sludge.
As a kid I remember looking at the Transformers BeastWars Metals figures and saying to myself "ugh, they'll wear out and look crappy in no time"... totally stopped me from buying them and now I know why. Cromulent work Prof Spector, I feel my knowledge has been embiggened.
The Marvel Legends Colossus 2pack is my new favorite compromise. I don't know the details, but I'm PRETTY sure that's shiny paint all over him, but man.... it looks GREAT. Full articulation, AND a reflective silver skin. I loved Vac Metal figures, but as long as modern toys use paint like that, I'm happy
Honestly, this should be a non-issue for droid figures. There is no reason that C-3p0 needs ball joints and swivels. Anthony Daniels hemself, in that outfit, barely had 5 POA! And he couldn't pick anything up. It's not like he figure needs to get into action poses. Stand next to that dais. Sit in that stick chair. Stand next to R2. That's about it.
If anyone's curious about what "magic" actually makes this process work, it's that liquids can't really exist in a vacuum and so when the metal is heated up to melting point it immediately turns into a gas instead of melting like it normally would. The vapour fills the empty chamber, and condenses on any surface that the vapour touches, again skipping the liquid phase and immediately crystalizing instead.
Scott, thanks as always. Transformers Beast Wars Transmetals have had tons of issues over the years with vac-metal flaking. All of the flexibility and soft plastics associated with those Transformers looked great at the time, but many have not stood the test of time.
Another great video sir & I feel smarter for having watched it- so thanks for doing this! I loved the Firefly references & think the world needs more of them! Though the best line was that nothing important in pop culture happened in 1977. I use a similar line when people ask for my birth year saying 'the year the greatest movie came out'.
Beast wars transmetals are a prime example of what happens to chromed figures with articulation, you will find transmetal rattrap almost completely flaked off when it's still new on its card!
Excellent video! Thank you! Been looking forward to this topic; love me some vac-metal. I've been compensating for the lack of industry-applied vac-metal these last few years by dabbling in Molotow Liquid Chrome paint pens. (And, no, I'm not getting free products or lucrative kickbacks every time I mention them, dagnabbit.) They take a bit of getting used to, and they take about a week to "dry" properly, but you get a great finish when you get the hang of them. I don't know if it's some magical arcane combination of environmental factors, or because I'd never throw or bash my toys together to play with them, but I've never had problems with my old vac-metal items flaking or disintegrating. Worst I'd ever had was some minor wear-and-tear on my vintage Artoo and Threepio, and a flake of red on one of the neck-plates on my TransMetal II Megatron coming off.
Growing up I always thought this was just paint because it always flaked off my toys... Only recently did I learn it was actually metal. The more you know.
My 1st C-3PO was fused. We were afraid to move his arms or legs , knowing, from experience with others kids figures, once you "break the seal" he becomes a floppy mess. My Brother STILL has that figure! He is still shiny, and he is still fused!
My father's always had this story he'd tell me about the time he worked in a factory that had a vac metal machine in it. He said one time he decided to chrome plate his car keys because....reasons. They didn't work after that.
Joyride Halo Spartan figures are another example that uses vac metal on the visors to give it a game accurate mirrored look. Jazwares brought it back years after the Halo 2 figures were last made. Giving nostalgia to people who remember the original figures, but were only on the first and second wave of Spartan figures they made so far.
This was a really cool video. All I've ever heard is that vac-metal is bad for the environment, and that's why they don't use it anymore. I'm happy to hear that it actually boils down to articulation. I love having a vintage style He-Ro in my collection. Words can not express how grateful I am that Super 7 made him. And though I am grateful, my complaint is the head sculpt. When you look at that picture online where they photograph the new He-Ro the same way as the prototype with the blue background, and then you look at the pictures side by side, you can really see the difference. I think I heard that the He-Ro prototype is lost (???), and if so then it's impossible to get it exactly the same, but man, that sculpt is just...it's goofy looking from one angle, and completely creepy from a different angle. He looks like he has duck lips. He doesn't have a heroic face. The original prototype looks a lot better. But then again I didn't like a lot of Super 7 head sculpts. The He-Ro and Eldor are the only two I purchased. I prefer my vintage MOTU and New Adventures lines. But that's it. That's my complaint. I understand not putting the mechanism inside him to save costs. I'm still very grateful to have him. And he looks awesome in my display case with my old figures. Once again, thank you for this video, as well as reading my silly complaint, lol. Keep up the great work!
I can’t help hearing Tom Holland’s voice at 2:04. “I’m sorry. What was your name again? Otto von Guericke? Wait, no seriously. What’s your actual name?"
I seem to recall when Palisades Toys revisited Micronauts in 2002-2003 that vac metal was not used and they are able to achieve the reflective surface from a paint application. Almost 20 years ago so I could be misremembering that.
This reminds me of Mr Peabody or Tennesse Tuxedo or Mr Wizard even Dr Stone would approve. What process was used to do the R2D2 head then? I always thought the C3P0 was a bit wonky or different from the other toys. Usually if I see something shiny I figured its got lead. In The Brothers Grimm he said its not magical its just shiny armor heh. ARound 9 minutes in it seemed like was going to show a figure then cut away.
I have a Trendmasters Dino Voltron from the 90's that had vac metal on most of the dinosaurs. They looked so awesome when they were new but relatively quickly, they started flaking. I clear coated some which did help but the yellow stegosaurus is just ruined, probably 90% of the gold vac metal had flaked off within a few short years. On the other hand my Beast Wars Transmetals from around the same time period still look great so something clearly went wrong with the Trendmasters process.
I like that if the character doesn't have to be fully vac metalled, it doesn't necessarily have to sacrifice points of articulation. The origins battle armor heman and damaged battle cat got the vac metal right.
Great video! Any ideas Scott as to why R2 and 3P0 haven't shown up in the retro collection? I've heard it's because the vac metal process is not environmentally friendly??
Hasbro has been talking about their green initiative lately, but I'm sure a lot of it has to do with saving money. Mattel just used it for their "Battlefield Warrior" Battle Armor He-Man and a walk down the car aisle shows any number of toys with vac metal parts.
Hurricane Hordak was one of my favorite original MOTU figures. He was one of the few (if not only) MOTU figure that lasted to adulthood, but it didn't last much longer than that. The ball for his left shoulder broke off in his arm one time when I was trying to remove the arm. I'm very glad he was recreated in the Classics line. I don't have very many classics figures as I'm more of a Transformers collector (Hurricane and Buzz-saw Hordak, Thunder Punch He-man, and Mosquitor is all), but I am very glad that HH turned out the way it did. I hope he shows up in the Origins line.
Thank you for the explanation. I think I remember hearing toy makers say they don’t use vac metal because of environmental concerns. Is there anything to this?
Superb content as always. So it seems like there is still a possible middle ground. As with that example of He-Ro or something like the 1998 Transformers Transmetal line, Vac metal can still be used to wonderful affect so long as it is not on articulated surfaces… which means that that the real answer about its absence is, probably cost. It’s one more manufacturing step that cuts into the margin.
This explains why my Super Powers Cyborg doesn't have knee articulation like all the other figures in the line. Super Powers, of course, being the greatest action figure line of all time
Beast Wars era Transmetal Transformers were decently articulated (for the time, & still mostly hold up today), & had a good amount of vac metal. Mostly torsos, or bits that don't move (there were exceptions), but they still could transform & pose better than many toys before them. Funny, my Transmetal Optimus Primal has more damage to his painted organic robot chest, than the gorilla's vac metal mechanical chest (Transmetals were intentionally weird), somehow. And Transmetal Cheetor did have balljoints, just not where he was vac metalized.
I transformed TM Rhinox last year, it was not a good experience. A lot of his vac metal is on moving parts and I don't know if they're metal swells over time, but it was ridiculously hard to move the parts. Probably doesn't help that all TM vac metal is silver and then painted over in a clear color so you're getting an extra layer most metalized parts don't have.
I only got the ones that made the show, & a few others (mostly to represent characters I didn't have). Didn't get TM Rhinox until his rerelease, in the Unicron Trilogy, which dropped the vac metal, added Minicon ports, & recolor him.
Urks me Hasbro won't do C-3PO this way anymore. They have done him pretty articulated with vac-met 10 years ago or so. Someone said it was more because of enviromental concerns. I don't know.
@@nicholasdickens2801 The 2010 C-3PO Ewok throne figure is has plenty of articulation and the vac plate still looks great even after a decade of posing. So I still don't get it. The figure can pose more than Daniels could in the suit.
@@stevebragg4256 I have that one too. Its because it’s not complex articulation, pin joints, and peg swivel joints. As to why we don’t have it, I’d say it’s just Hasbro’s excuses I believe. The MOTU Origins has plenty of Vac metal in the range, like Jitsu’s gold hand, and even newer items are done with it.
Kids wanted shiny toys with articulation in the 80s. Hasbro said "no worries, we'll use flake in our plastics to shiny them up on articulated parts and joints. How's that?" Then those toys completely disintegrate after a few years. That is a "cosmic rust" I would love to never see return. Gold plastic syndrome is the plague of toy collecting.
Great video--I've read on forums, and you probably have too, that Hasbro says they won't use the process any more. Sometimes they say "it's too expensive," and sometimes the reason given is an environmental one, which seems a little easy. Maybe articulation is the real culprit?
I see we skipped right by the most notorious 70s/80s figure to lose their vac metal as soon as you breathed on it: Mattel's Cylons, silver or gold. There's an entire sub-genre of toy repair videos devoted to re-chroming figures that have lost their shine, and that cylon features in most of them.
@@machineman6498 Most use the Gundam pens or airbrushing, but you can look up electro-plating which closely mimics the vac metal process, and you can get machines for home.
Forgot about Cylon toys. Mine did not get too bad, but I neglected them and they were un played with because I did not have Star I know Apollo. Daggett could not really challenge em.
@@machineman6498 I've had some pretty good successes with Molotow Liquid Chrome paint pens (you can also open the pens and use the paint in airbrushes). You need to let whatever you paint with them "dry" for about a week without touching them, but the finish you get is fantastic.
I wonder what the process is for making solid metal parts, like in the original generation one Jetfire transformer, the lower legs had solid metal pieces (and of course there were metal hinges in the shoulders and arms).
Saint Seiya classic toys come to mind. Armors were half vac metal and hal die cast, which made those parts heavy and prone to fall off. I would rather have them be completely vac metal. On that line... How does this technology iteract with color? Does it need specific formulas?
What are the chemicals used for electro-plating? Aren’t those chemicals a big reason why that practice has been done away with? I’ll also argue that you can have articulation and vac metal. There was a C-3PO model kit I bought several years ago that is vac metal and has articulated joints. Now the actual pieces that insert to make up the joints isn’t vac metal but the outer shell is. This kit fit in perfect with the 6” black series. The model kit is highly posable and is completely vac metalized.
You bring up a good point that it can be used on some level. But it sounds like the set up for a premium ($) format. Base figure with articulation and then add plated abs. Might be a solution for the Silverhawks line.
@@machineman6498 He is referring to the Bandai model kit for C-3PO, which is 6-inch scale and amazing. Works perfectly with Black Series figures. Unfortunately, sold out but still on Ebay for about 50 bucks last time I checked.
Electroplating is a separate thing all together... It only works on conductive materials like metal. You can't electroplate plastic directly, though you could electroplate a piece of plastic that has already been plated in metal using some other method. As for the chemical, it depends on what metal you want the finished product to be plated with. The chemical bath isn't necessarily going to be toxic, but it's not uncommon to use a variety of cyanides and other chemicals that will improve the conductivity of the solution.
Scott, I've noticed over the years how paint apps have improved and you have previously mentioned that most are done by hand. Previuosly I assumed the machine technology was simply getting better. Tonight I just looked at my battle armour origins skeletor and the 2nd head looks like his eye, nose and mouth paint are all a bit to one side. This makes it look like a machine error rather than a human one. So, question is, how much paint is hand applied and how much is machine applied these days? Also what do (if they exist) paint app machines look like?
Hey Scott, could you do a video on how to identify fake prototype toys? I always want to buy them when I see them online, but am always worried it came out of a 3D printer!
Why did you not use it on jitsu and classics ? cost ?. I found with age some vac metal becomes brittle some people saying revalation fisto it's a diecast fist. film studies hey ok opinion on superman 78 please
I have to ask. Why not use something like a high-gloss chrome with a high-gloss clear-coat? Why not skip the vac machine in favor of a good old paint booth? To pick an example, Hotwheels & Matchbox cars, wouldn't the paint booth be faster and cheaper, with a tougher coating? What an I missing? Feel free to surprise me with an interesting answer (including a link to a video I probably should have watched before commenting). ;)
May I ask how the gold chrome armor on Classics Hurricane Hordak was made? It's flexible, so I presume it's made of PVC and unable to be vac-metallized. Did you guys at Mattel glue a piece of gold mylar onto the armor to achieve that vac-metallized look?
Your final comment brings to mind a question I have long had: has anyone every tried to figure out exactly how many methods of skinning a cat exist? Like, it has been established that there is “more than one way.” So the simple answer would seem to be 2+ methods. But I’m not convinced that this is in keeping with original intent. What of partially-effective methods? I would be inclined to consider a system that allows one to reliably de-glove a cat’s legs as qualifying. Do you have any suggestions for finding unbiased research and information related to cat skinning?
Pretty much the entire 2nd year of Transformers Beast Wars ( Transmetals) was a LOT of Vac metal parts .I sold my collection in 2007, and had no issues with any of the toys up to that point, but I've heard some of them have flaking issues. You'll probably never see a huge toy like Rampage or the TM2 Dragon Megatron with all that vac metal ever again. Sad...
The Transmetals have actually held up great! Still have all mine, including TM2 Megatron and Cryotek, and they don't have any chips or flaking at all. I bought them at the point I was collecting and displaying but not playing with them so can't speak to the ones that kids played with, but I do have other toys from the same time period that have flaked horribly. At this point the Transmetals are the best example of vac metal, with the colors and gradients, that I've seen.
@@dragonosx Glad yours held up. Mine probably would have also. Wherever they are now, hopefully they were taken care of since YES all of mine were in great shape as of 2007 when I sold them.
Been looking for info on Vac-metal. I was so disappointed tge recent Star Wars Star Droid had no Vac-metal. I would much rather less articulation and having Vac-metal. Especially dorids I think can pull it off because there movements were stiff anyway. You see C3PO and he dosney have great articulation so bring back Vac-metal I say the figures ain't the same without it. #BringVac-metalbacktoStarWarsTVC
I realise the clue is in the name, but I didn't ever think there was actual metal involved. I thought it was called that because it just looked like metal. Don't ask me what I thought it actually was, I don't know ......... 'science'.
No shinny shinny is why the new silverhawks figs aren't super selling. Side note some of the carbonized black series are nice, but when supposed fabric parts are shinny it annoys me.
For me, vac metal on toys need to have the right amount on it to look - too less, it will look out of place. Conversely, too much of it makes the toy looking like a Chinese bootleg. I think the G1 Transformers by Takara had the right balance of vac metal parts on them.
We need Vac metal back in the TVC collection. To hell with articulation on a droid. Lol. Love the cat reference. Lol that would be horrible even for a horror movie though. Horrible Scott. Lol
