The History of How Jungle Became The Most Important Role in League of Legends 

But you could’ve skipped camps to gank bot.

​@@firenado1674and losing your topside camps?

​@naiku6727enlight us gold jg

​@@firenado1674but no gank was setup... enemy bot lane was full hp with sums.

@naiku6727 Fullclear is good when the gank would be unlikely to achieve much anyway. If your botlane solo dies 2v2 then that's on them.

That's actually wrong too she was given a mini reworked a few months after launch because she was to strong in proplay and to weak in regular league so they gave her healing to sustain in jg better yes but also to be a better skirmisher in fights

And pre release she could solo baron at level 1

??? you okay dude ? he's right@@templarstealth4712 they didn't give her healing to be better at skirmishes it was LITERALLY cause new jungle fucked kyting junglers because of leash range ???? the mini rework was to make her less obnoxious early because too much MS and they made E long CD cause in pro play all lillia did was fish for E ULT engages on cd. in solo Q people can't wait or group or anything so she can't do that

No, she was given healing when Ravenous Hunter was deleted from the game. She was originally intended to have healing on her Q, but it was removed pre-launch because she healed too much when stacked with Ravenous. She had healing well before these jungle changes came out.

I wonder what dragon soul winrate is in games that are close to even in gold. Let’s just look at league of graphs data for plat plus, which is where the numbers in the video came from I think. Kill 2 drakes and having them be of the same type is very high in the winrates for your teams first two drakes, which I interpret as teams getting the 3rd and 4th drake, as the first 2 are always different, have higher chances of winning than teams getting the 1st and 2nd drake. So the first 2 drakes don’t matter as much as the 3rd and 4th, but how many games are you going to have go to soul point after one team already secured 2 drakes and have the game go to the other team. Games also last for 28-25 minutes on average for platinum up to challenger, so if each team gets one drake in theory the average team won’t be able to get soul point before the average game ends unless each drake is taken of spawn but I view that as unlikely in games where each team gets at least one drake. I interpret this that since on average games don’t last long enough for one team to get a drake and the other team to get soul that teams that get soul basically won every single team fight.

yep, people bringing up winrates and dragons souls are so funny. that's like saying "look guys whatever team kills the nexus turrets first has a 95% winrate". yeah maybe the winning team just gets dragons and turrets and not the other way around.

Yeah its a huge snowball of which team’s bot and mid are more on point a lot of the times. If bot is heavily losing or mid is gapped hard, dragons become very difficult to get. This means that the team that is usually ahead is getting the dragons.

i mean, considering that cloud soul and chemtech soul have a whole 5% of difference in winrate when they are all just super buffs, i definately would say they still take a big part on that team winning. Especially considering that baron is a buff specifically design to end the game, and yet the team who gets the first baron has an 80% winrate, considerably lower than even the weakest dragon soul.

Did you know 99.9999 percent of core killers won? Core is op.

/mute all, solves every problem

It's pretty fun, but you need a lot of game knowledge, you have to look at a play and decide if it's worth your time or not Can you get a spell or a kill? If not probably not worth it, unless you want to give your laner more control of the lane Once you know the mechanics you have the whole game at your fingertips, you're almost a mastermind that decides where your team goes I'm not nearly at that point mind you, I'm still a silver player, but even at low elo sometimes the right cards (teammates) fall into your hands and it facilitates your job immensely

Switch roles??

Why not like idk... Play other role?

@@kauanjos3199if you have to change the role to enjoy the game then the game is not enjoyable.

The most consistent part of the jungle is getting reworked two times a year

I just mute all. It got to the point where even their pings started annoying me

@@mikoajciemiega8018 The most consistent part is that the jungle always gets different meta champs by a few small item changes

You mean that time when your jungler could be considered away for around 20 minutes until he was stacked fully on the lantern, yeah it was fun only for that jungler and not always

AD bruiser Evelynn.

That item was so busted that I'm surprised he didn't cover it but then again you'd only know the horror if you were there to see it.

Shyvana/Yi/Trundle were so terrifying back then

rip feral flare udyr who would afk for an hour then 1v9+base

I'm a casual jungle main, so yea I want. It's great having the freedom on the map, I frankly get bored when I play ADC or top lane.

Most people INTENTIONALLY play carry champs for this exact purpose. While it can be stressful if you get gapped, it also provides you more ways to learn how to win. It can feel awful and just wonder “what could I even do?” When your jng gets demolished, whereas playing as the jng who gets demolished allows you to see where you can improve macro wise throughout the entire game (I.e. before it is doomed). However, I still think the importance of the role is too high for solo-q

Yeah I miss that aoe w… the flail

played her once after the change and will never pick her again

​@@chimneyimp1486yea shes not a bad champ at all, but her old kit was just so much more fun to me, felt the same way about aatrox and maokai rework

when the game is lost the jungler is always the fault if you lose the game when the 0/50 katarina can't one shot one of her counters

This was really in depth thanks haha. I wish i knew how to play JG brother

I wish bot lane was the most important role so I could flame all the adc and support mains who typed jgl diff in chat when they were literally the reason why we lost

Making one of the most important roles in the game as easy as it has been took out all the excitement and proper mind games out of the jungle for me. I mained Elise which is an early game champ. It was practically impossible to punish champs in the jungle or to go for gank oriented strategies when there's so much protection and so much comfort and safety. While there's more incentive for a newb to play and more of a champion pool, the scale has tipped towards the power farmers, the tanky, the no risk investment champs almost deleting other types of viable strategies in the game. It was one of the reasons why I left.

Jungle definitely doesn't have too much power, just imagine if your team is too greedy and can't wait for you to get into position and just go in without hesitation feed the enemy and the enemies always come to your jungle or try to pick you, that's unplayable, even having a good cs or being fed doesn't bring you out of that unless you can hyper carry or the enemies are inting, if your team is bad early game, then they'll be worse in late game, I'm gold in soloq and my teammates had a big difference than in flex where I'm currently still bronze, it's just horrible if your team sucks, I carried 2 out of 3 games, but yet it was too close to lose because my team was a bunch of garbage that didn't even understand the game, none of them didn't even look onto the map which already makes you a bad player in my opinion + the enemy team was garbage too, but guess just better than my team, in a game I was able to carry without any towers left, even with no nexus towers and that as an evelynn against a viego and a few other annoying champs that I don't remember, but their viego was seriously so ass, I think they were even premades of 5, they tried to pick me but failed at that and I also got a point where I had a 3 lvl difference on viego

I think you are right. Jungle is always ahead of the curve in terms of gold even if they do not gank a single lane. I think that really does not make sense for a role that is always on the map. It is just a role with so many options and you basically in control of what plays your team can make.

@@AplicFlare Jungle is only far ahead if no single lane is gankable, if a jungler has to gank every single lane and if your whole team are pigs, then it's over for you and your team, because if they can't just sit 2min under tower or atleast not die, you won't be able to clear camps fast enough + the enemy jungle can easily punish you, if you're top and you haven't finished your bottom camps

Jungle is by far the only role where I seriously have fun, I can get gold and exp without having to watch my enemies movement and try to avoid their attacks, but it gets frustating if your team loses more than 2 lanes and the enemies start warding every single corner of your jungle and take every single camp, that's like the only point where it's unplayable, but top is really fun too, I just recently started playing cameel and she's fun to play and what I like most about top lane, I barely get ganked, unless I play a champ that I'm not so good with or I'm yone/yasuo

you know your game is won if your jungler has good cs (and consistently makes good cs per minute) and makes good ganks

At that point you don't have a jungle, you have a hobo

I complained so much about jungle last season. Little did I know I didn't know how good I had it. They are so toxic, too. The power Riot has given them so that queue times aren't too long has really gotten to their heads. Kingmaker role that can also 1v1 my top laner just from the gold from their camps alone, a role where the catchup experience allows for a jungler getting doubled in CS and be the same level? Yeah, okay. Looking forward to next season's jungle buffs and looking at the r/Jungle_Mains subreddit and seeing them complain about buffs that are "actually nerfs" for the 5th season in a row.

@@AplicFlare Junglers aren't toxic, the team is toxic, because we get blamed for every single thing, also if you didn't know, league of legends is a game made by riot, of course it's toxic, what do you expect? If you play a game with a mindset that there wouldn't be anyone that's toxic then you shouldn't play that specific game

@@AplicFlare Also, jungle camps are the same as 3 minion waves, the difference is that you have to walk to each camp and nobody clears all of them immediately, even full clear can be stupid early game, you can't full clear every game and you can't clear camps every time, especially not if camps are ready or if lanes are gankable, I don't really understand your problem with junglers, a jungler is supposed to be important, a jungle would be useless if he could easily get far behind, or even just a bit because a small gold diff in this game can be heavy

shyvana dance on mid lane while smiting the canon

So true, my theory is League is a roller coaster game and some players get really emotionally invested in the phases of how the match goes.

You dont even need to make a mistake. If they make a mistake its your fault

especially if your team has 1 duo, they'll insult you so hard and don't even care if they get reported, they'll literally just start flaming you out of nowhere for the rest of the game, no matter what you do, especially after you make 1 mistake, it's incredible

@@seokmin3292 they are descendants of TF Blade or rather his clones

@@alex2005z if they feed the enemy bot it's your fault, if they have 4 deaths in 5 minutes without the enemy jgl ganking them, then it's also your fault, honestly bot lane might be the most pathetic role with the most pathetic players in lol, top and mid are totally chill, today I had a top shyvana who typed "I love you so much" after I made her lane completely free and broke the enemy's top mental, but we lost because our lvl 59 bronze katarina can't play the game (I hate flex) + she also typed jgl diff when I almost carried the game (had her muted tho since she pinged me in early game for no reason and after the top me and the bot lane called her out, she muted herself)

Yes, took him 2000 games to reach chall in jungle, 400 for Midlane, 500 for support and around 800 for top lane, idk what this guy went on with that

Thats probably just him being a worse jungler than laner

@@alex2005z jungle gets severely out-resourced by almost every lane, except botlane, you're almost 2 levels behind if you only take your own camps, off cooldown, and you're a good chunk of gold behind as well, so I don't know if I believe jungle to be the strongest role, it used to be because you got so many resources so quickly, but you don't anymore

@@Atlasm2p it still is preety good to carry, as your carry potential isnt just related to your resources. Its much more impactfull than top

@@alex2005z depends on the ELO, feeding other lanes is good when people aren't absolutely incompetent, but if they are, like in low elo, then feeding your botlane doesn't matter if they're gonna go 7/190/0

Now we have rell as well

that's because they got hardcore cc lmao, cc is the key to win, if your team picks 2 game carries you just pick someone who has a lot of cc and in pro play easily every player can carry the game, so yeah cc is definitely one of the most important things in pro play, I don't think in low elo it matters that much because everyone is a pig

@motafu1 not just cc, but engage. Cc that you can use to start a fight. Very important, otherwise a decent player will never get caught out. I mean who would get caught out if the enemies engage is braum q?

Any role is easy when your teamates are good. Anyone can win top when they get a lot of ganks

And this is not even to mention the likelyhood of ending a game off an objective fight lategame.

In order to get soul you need a gold lead. Thats it. You need to be winning. Bot prio is optional as by the time you are actually fighting for the final drakes laning phase is over.

@@alex2005z Yeah what I meant by that is getting the prior drakes to soul point.

I wish every jungler wouldn't be able to counter another jungler this much, if you play against a counter and they know how to play then it's literally over, I had one game where I was kayn against a kindred and this kindred was perma invading and abusing early game, I couldn't do anything and her auto attacks slowed me too, it was impossible to reach her because she has billions of dashes, I ban kindred every game now, but sometimes I face khazix and everytime the khazix player is the biggiest 🐱 in the world, everytime they are low hp they literally just ult and use ghostblade + they use their jump, impossible to follow that even as kayn

Yeah mid is pretty OP!

​@Deathlate Most midlaners don't even remember top exists until the enemy toplaner ganks them and they spam ping you

You are only strong enough to carry if you get a lot of kills on ganks... otherwise you fall behind fast. So stop dying to early ganks

If u are not playing in pro play, any soloQ have opportunity to gank lanes. Top lane cant carry if the enemy jungle interrupts top (the most vulnerable lane) Mid cant roam if they dont have prio mid and track of enemy jungle Adc cant do anything early on Sup is the only who can help or stop enemy jungler cuz they dont need stay in lane farming, but they aways let the ADC vulnerable. Jungle was balanced back on 2013, because they dont scale like today and have the most impact early on

@@alex2005z its not just "dying early to ganks" Laners aways need to stay on dangerous situation to carry games, if u play safe, u are only coinflipping your soloQ

That's an exaggeration tho, the basics will always be the same and thank god they change stuff up to not make the role go stale af

The meta is ass right now. Mid lane for me!

@@thehallmonitor4515 Jungle is good, khazix rengar shyvana etc. are all good champs and can easily carry the game, mid lane almost seems like a different world, you either pick a meta champ or a champ that just isn't that strong and if you pick a meta champ on mid you usually always win the lane because your poke damage etc. is just better

@@motafu1 I understand the meta, just don’t like it lol. I played jg for 6 seasons and this one just feels bad to me.

This was the change that made me leave after so many others. I see you might be a Shaco fan, and I was an Elise/Evelynn main. It's not so much important for Evelynn, but it somewhat made some difference even for her. As for Elise, it fucked up my game plans so much that there wasn't an incentive to play my main champion anymore, especially if I was climbing the lower elos as they don't fucking know what to do with early game advantages. I honestly don't even know the state of the jungle as I avoid league content, but I'd bet that solo que might be a power farming fest and pro play might have gone to the tanky junglers that can farm as fast as possible. Sad days for me, and probably for you, because the early game strategies, ganking focused champs and mind games might not be as viable as they once were.

@@hikariluanGC the last jungler with great ganks Riot released was Rek'sai. That was in 2014. (Or Nunu, if you want to count reworks, but even that was still in 2018). Elise is actually first choice should Shaco be unavailable. I'm not keeping up with the meta either, in part because I lost some interest but mostly because real life got busier. Seasons 10 to 12 were power farming nightmares, but from what I've heard, season 13 is actually not too bad.

I don't play anymore, but there used to be an item that allowed us to place 2 wards and it reset every time we came back to base. It was one of the upgrades of the "knives" back in the day. It was so much fun because it allowed me to control the whole map, especially in lower elos, with ease. They dumped the item on the excuse that there was too much vision for the pro players and it made the fun and surprising stuff disappear which led it to be quite stale for pro games viewers. It was one of the reasons why I left.

Just use the normal wards and just buy control wards, as a kayn and eve main I only get red ward as kayn and as eve I want to stay invisible as much is possible, if the enemies know where I am, then I can't pick anyone and after I learned that I shouldn't but sweepers on her, I found out that I can get more kills if the enemies don't see me (which is obvious as evelynn)

ADCs suffer because "hyper carry" is a toxic concept. Riot wants those late game spikes for more interesting clips, but for the overall game it's not a good thing. Either the team has to play around the ADC, which is boring as fuck, or they abandon the ADC completely, which is not fun to the ADC.

Used to main mid, then jg, then support. Recently I’ve been playing adc and it’s the least fun I’ve had in this game.

Maybe in low elo you can do whatever you want, jungle is extremely punishing if the enemy knows how to capitalize off your macro mistakes (like wasting too much time top lane = enemy diving ur botlane or taking free drake, bad jungle clearing = your pathing is fucked and enemy jungler can steal your stuff ecc ecc)

@@alienstalesI picked it up in diamond, it’s brain dead broken.

@@alienstales if the enemy can also analyze where you are or where you will gank, then you'll easily lose, because they are like reading your mind (not really obv) and they can easily punish you, if they can kill you, they not only get 300 gold, but they can also take your remaining camps or easily get a free objective maybe even two if your team are full of pigs and don't ward the drake, but even if you play it well, once the enemy jgl gets an advantage over you it's impossible to come back unless he lets you get your gold and exp which will never happen unless they play it completely bad

@@Okami400 You're diamond after leaving league for a long time? Sounds like a lie to me, unless you're playing on an easy server, like eune

@@motafu1 I never left league where did you get that from. I said I never played jungle in many years

facts

the bot lane incident

yap

Dota 2.

@@EruCoolGuy older, is a feature of w3 maps, jg camps also droped items

@@EruCoolGuy ROFLMAO where do you think the 2 came from?

Take out the damage, what needs to be done is patch after patch of constant jg nerfs and we're talking just constant nerfs no buffs so the role can just not be a monstrosity Jgs can just spent like 3 mn doing squat camping a lane, clean 3 or 4 camps and be at a laner level. Shocking how much power and experience they have given them and be forgiving the role

And yet if queue fill you likely will end up jungling. As much as everyone thinks jungle is busted it is somehow also the least popular role. It is very clearly not as powerful as many want to believe.

Why should you lose a lot of hp when you already end up behind when playing jungle?

Mid and Support are the most irrelevant roles in league and it's 100% correct, tell me a game where the support was any important in late game, enchanters maybe, but everyone else is just useless, the only thing supports are good for is warding but that's almost everything in late game, a champ like taric is totally different tho, or a 1mil points yuumi who actually plays like she has 1mil points on yuumi

@@motafu1 Sup is literally as important as jungle in high elo lmao. Supports juat decide the fate of every objective and of bot/mid/jgl

@@motafu1 Supports gank mid so often and roam, look at champs that have hooks, or something like Bard. They're like a 2nd Jgl for mid. Not to mention how many fights are decided by a hook and taking 1 enemy out of the fight for free, or a Rakan knockup engage. Also agree on the objectives since their job is to ward drake, river, sometimes buff etc to actually help at drake or with invading junglers

This happens because when you cant do shit bc bad wave position is bad, or you decided to make a fullcklear , the enemy jungler makes random lvl 2 play on the other side of the map, and cant get seriosly punished, because due to jungle pet snack passive he will not lose that much of income , and successful gank will compensate losses even if he gets only assists, and even if its become bad for ganking jungler , a falling down on lane in 2-3 wasted waves is so miserable in lane, and almost guaranteed you that lane will won, so now you need to deal with strong opponent, while enemy jungler, being gapped for 3-4 lvls will farm safely with bonus exp bc WHY NOT? After rewatching my master games i fucking realize , that there is 3 scenarios of 2 jaja interacting with map 1 they split the map and completely ruin life of weakside laner 2 they will go to same side and force random-ass coinflip scuttle fuckyourwavepositionifyouwonthelpmeiwillruinwholegame 3 strong erly game jungler will invade karthus-shivana-lilia-ect creature in their jungler that will again affect all laners to move to this action again The fact that makes jungle broken is exp from behind, treasures from item, and almost full freedom to do what you want first 15 mins Jungle and support is the only people in the game that not got stuck to their lanes because of resources maintaining , and can violently affect the map, the moment is - support is falling in terms of gold, junglers get +- same amount of gold and exp as laners , while while desiding fate of the lanes (if there is no skill issue or "intellect champions") Most jungers get fullclear (so lvl 4 as well) before sololaners get lvl4 , so they just stronger in terms of stats, the pets make jungle clear a easy trip , so they are full hp, and junglers designed in a form to have hard cc or slow or ect , its not much you can do , you have to shut the fuck up and respect the jungle powerspike , and if your jungler at that time does nothing, while you died or forced to stay under turret to lose a full lvl of exp , that leads to later lvl6 , thats leads to more loses or even towerdive (and if you get doved erlygame and has no tp, your lane is over) , you really will want to help your jungler go 0/1 (in game) Like adc has scaling but has to rely on others in erly, supports has impact erly , but later they just supports to the protagonists , midlaners has impact over map , but can be violated from others, toplane is just a lastpick balls torture simulator that can become even worse if someone interrupt and ruin life of one of them, that will create or the less impactfull player of the game, or the hardest 1/9 machine And jungle ..... Well, it has a huge affection to the erlygame, it is insanely important to take objectives in midgame , and they have resourses and scalings aswell , so with riot love and updates , exp from behind and treasures , so you wont get violated so hard 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊 AND IT LOOKS LIKE NOONE CARES ABOT TOPLANER THAT GET DOVED AT LVL 3 BY RENECTON+REKSAI, TP/D BACK JUST TO GET FUCKED WITH RENECTON+REKSAI+RELL LOST 3 WAVES WORTH OF MINIONS AND 2 LVLS BEHIND, WENT BACK TO LANE JUST TO NOTISED THAT YOUR LANE IS FROZED AND A FUCKING REKSAI SITTING IN THE BUSH, THAN RENECTON GETS LVL 6 AND YOU GET FUCKING DOVED ONCE AGAIN AND AFTER THIS YOUR ONLY OPTION TO SAVE SOMETHING THAT LEFT OF YOUR MENTAL HEALTH IS JUST LEAVE THE GAME AND FORGOT ABOUT THIS GAME😂😂😂 NOT TO MENTION THAT YOUR JUNGLER THAT SUCCESSFULY GANKED BOT AND GET TO YOUR TEAM 2 FLASHES AND A KILL WILL RANDOMLY DECIDE TO GO FIGHT REKSAI , BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING COULD GO WRONG RIGHT? THE FED LVL 6 RENECTON DEFINITELY WILL NOT MURDER EVERYONE RIGHT?

well not really, killing a camp gives health now but not as much as gromp did before, but this change is definitely better, because you could literally heal by smiting a camp, which is in my opinion kinda stupid considering it was better than heal (I think it healed more than the heal spell)

Do you know what specific track is being used in the video? I can't quite find it.

never mind, found it. It's corridors of time

with armor and attack speed runes you had to farm first 😂

The "more buffs than nerfs" idea is good, back when things were the opposite the would outright kill champions accidentally. If they buffs the guy who is lagging behind, they might make others not optimal but they remain playable. Meanwhile, when you nerf a character you run the risk of removing their win condition, which is a problem. The issue is that the balancing team, the design team and so on don't seem to communicate a lot. They operate with different philosophies, with a set of goals common to everyone and occasionally glance at what someone else is doing. No better proof to this than the difference between rework designs and new champion designs.

@@ggwp638BC It remains a bad practice because powercreep is killing games fast. Far more risky to leapfrog the damage (or survivability [tank meta] [akali having the highest base stats etc]) into a point of no return. Having a game on the basis of "if everyone is overpowered no one is" is simply untrue because not only damage decides the fun. Being able to dodge every skillshot just because there is too much mobility for example and instead of nerfing ALL mobility they are buffing the damage of those easy to dodge skillshots. It is just a huge pile of donkeydoodoo and on my opinion unsavable at this point. I am not playing it that much anyway these days and desperately avaiting something that is better but not dota2.

@@amilo5 the people who control overloaded kits and dashes were different than those who make the adjustments on weekly patches. That's where you're mixing terminology. Overloaded champions is not a case of balancing through buffing, it's a problem with design philosophy.