the history of Lgbtq+ characters in Persona [video essay] 

You missed the most important character in the series who's an absolute mood: that one girl outside your class in p3 who's dialogue solely revolves around simping for Mitsuru. Amen lord I be gay as hell. 🙏🏳️‍🌈

I like how for Atlus it was more appropriate for a high school girl to date a 10 year old, orphaned boy; whom is using the main cast as surrogate family than for gay characters to exist.

Yosuke being a cut romance option is my roman empire 😭😭😭

that transphobic scene is something that atlus fixed in persona 3 reload, which is amazing to see! now it's a lady that's convinced the sun is a fake that was propelled into space in the 1980s, claiming only her exclusive 300,000 yen sun screen can protect junpei akihiko and makoto from it lmao. a rly great change 👍

Omg gay people and persona, my two favorite things

I have some feelings about Kanji and his storyline in P4. Kanji has the ability to have feelings for people he thinks are guys. Naoto not being a guy doesn't change the fact that he had a crush on Naoto when he thought Naoto was a man. Instead of just letting Kanji be the bi king he should be, they take a step back and try to change the narrative into him being straight. You can have a "homophobia affects everyone because it leads to toxic expectations" discussion while having a queer character involved.

Btw, about the persona 2 Jun and Tatsuya things, Considering the interview came after persona 4 and the original director and writer for persona 2 already left,Take the the interviewe with a grain of salt since we don't know if it's another staff of atlus that said that or the actual original writer for persona 2

glad to finally hear an actual queer person's perspective on this. only thing, even if you don't get much out of them, the romance options are really great for those that do/can enjoy them to the fullest. i would rather have more romance options, not cut them out

Been playing P3R for a while now and loved that when you reach lvl9 with kenji's sl he texts you like if you were a couple. There's also this girl outside your classroom that's in love with Mitsuru. I feel like they're having a more healthy approach in these recent games!

the pride pin in the opening cutscene is the best addition to persona 3 reload (also great video, i really enjoyed it!)

I will say 3 things about the persona 4 stuff 1. After kanji’s dungeon, the scene on the rooftop afterwards has Yosuke expressly say that it’s ok if he is gay, even with the jokes made it seems that they are very much ok with that idea even if they aren’t as comfortable with it, because keep in mind, they are high schoolers during a time where lgbtq stuff wasnt as openly seen as ok, especially without exposure to those communities, there will be some discomfort with it, my brother for example, when I came out as trans to him he was supportive even tho he doesn’t understand it and often makes jokes that aren’t really ok, he is trying to be good and learn to do his best to be supportive, he just isn’t in an environment that encourages comfort with lgbtq communities. I see that same kind of thing being the case in p4 with the whole main cast 2. The planned romance option for Yosuke, he was originally meant to be bisexual and it seems like the decision for the romance option to be cut was a fairly late one, so a lot of his writing is still based around him being that way, and it makes it clear to me at least that his homophobia is more so at himself then actually at kanji, like him trying to deflect his own feelings to try and convince himself he isn’t gay, an experience a lot of queer people experience early on, especially in unsupportive environments, wanting to convince yourself you are straight to try an avoid being treated differently or seen as worse in environments that use terms like gay as insults. It’s such a complex thing to take into consideration with his behavior. 3. With naoto, while yes, she is trying to change her sex in the way that a trans guy would, the reason behind it is incredibly important. The reason isn’t because she feels like she is a guy and that she should have been born a guy, it’s because she sees it as the only option when it comes to being taken seriously as a detective. That distinction is why I feel that naoto isn’t trans, because once they found that she can be taken seriously, she becomes more comfortable in her identity as a girl. If anything I’d say her story has more to do with being trans if you look at it this way. Because a bare bones summary of her story is that she feels like she is forced to identify and present as a male to be able to live their life to the fullest, but once they were shown that it’s ok to not do that, she began to explore herself as a girl, identifying as a girl. Idk about you but that sounds like more of a trans story then if she was a trans guy. And the big distinction is the reason why they wanted to become a guy, it’s not because that’s what they feel they truely are, but because they think it’s what they have to do

~13 minutes about persona 2 ~4 minutes about persona 3 ~24 minutes about persona 4 ~10 minutes about persona 5 yeah, about what i would expect. i have not watched yet but looking forward to the p4 section edit: yep, pretty good video. though it's wild that having an opinion about kanji being gay or naoto being trans in persona 4 (even subtextually) requires so much preface. if you don't explain the concept of subtext or 'death of the author' from the ground up then people will say stuff like "i don't think you understood the story" or "you're totally missing the point"

I'm really glad that Hashino is no longer working on Persona, hope the new director can actually add queer representation

SPOILERS FOR P3RE!!!! The scene where Ryoji says to Makoto that he wants to be something more than friends...Ryoji you were never gonna beat the allegations 😭🤞

"Honey, I'm home!"

there are bits of p4 that are super bad, to the point me and my friends had a "point lost for Yosuke" gag as we went though for any homophobic or sexist bit. I completely get why this puts people off, but to me even if a character says something wack I care more about the response. Im more fine with a character saying something out of line if they are immediately punished. The fact that the Crossdressing contest is a punishment for Yosuke's jab at the girls may not be super tasteful, I think it's more ok because Yu, Kanji, and Teddie all go with it fine, and It's only Yosuke is upset over it. It's still another example of male femininity being seen as a joke though so that's more reason for someone to hate it. (I also don't remember if the other guys show distaste for it. I only Remember Kanji thinking if they are doing it they should go all out, and Teddie not caring) On your Kanji point, I think Kanji fearing the perception would be a lot better if it was unpacked like you said. If Kanji went from freaking out over Yosuke's jokes to realizing he isnt afraid of being gay i wonder if jokes about Kanji's insecurity can be flipped entirely into a joke on Yosuke. (It's probably better to just not have the jokes then to actively make Yosuke unlikable). at the very least, i'd like to see Kanji brush off these jokes because he vowed to make people understand him. I just dont want Kanji to be the butt of the joke.

I honestly don't think the fact Naoto isn't trans itself isn't bad but what is really problematic is just how the game portrays being Trans as always the wrong answer. Shadow naoto says so much about how Naoto could never "trespass the barrier between the sexes" and its just accepted as fact. I found a video essay about Persona 4 Golden called "Persona 4- A Bad Good Game" and while there are some stuff in it I don't entirely agree with the video has a part that is exclusively about Kanji and Naoto and it puts into words the issues I have with both of them. Its a really good video, I would reccomend watching it.

Does goro akechi is gay?

naoto gets even worse when you realize that in persona 4 arena, naoto uses he/him pronouns to introduce themselves to mitsuru a year after they presumibly became in touch with their identity as a woman. i hate this franchise!

Regarding the tent scene and Kanji in general. I always liked playing Yu as the neutral guy who didn’t care what way Kanji swayed. In that sense it makes Yosuke the only one of the guy characters to be borderlining homophobia, and not have Yu be a participant in that. That way, it becomes something that Yosuke has to work through and better himself in. It makes the game more realistic in how people can be regarding sexualities in their teenage years. This is more of my headcannon and is obviously still something that can detract from the game’s quality for MANY. As a queer woman who was struggling with my identity like Kanji (just in the opposite way) I feel like the tent scene should be kept if Atlus were to remake the game buuuuut should be rewritten or changed up to where Kanji is more sympathetic and he isn’t the one to be laughed at, rather the ridiculousness of what Yosuke is saying is the thing to be laughed at. That way the few moments where queerness comes up after completing Kanji and Naoto’s dungeon still remain. Also a thing I always adored, which is especially played up in the anime adaption, is how it seems pretty clear that Kanji was into Naoto even before it was revealed she was a biological woman. And yet even after that reveal, Kanji’s interest in her seems to only increase because of her personality and the way she is rather than her being born as a woman. It gives major bi/pan-vibes which is pretty neat I think. (Just to be clear other interpretations regarding their sexualities and identities are valid!!)

Although the crossdresing scene in Persona 4 may be controversial for the rest of the characters, I think in Yu's case, it's a pretty cool scene. Yu is shown in the women's uniform, not being embarrassed, and not acting like a woman, he is the cool one just the way he is, and he will continue to be so even in the women's uniform. And precisely that detail is referenced in the wedding scene in the Persona Q, where if you play with Makoto and you get Yu, he will appear in the image with the wedding dress, not being comfortable with the fact of being the bride, but with how the dress fits him, subtly mentioning that perhaps he has a gift for dressing it. It is likely that Ren's scene in Mementos Mission was a reference to this detail, as the same author previously worked on the manga of Persona 4 Arena, where she had to study the character of Yu, and make a manga in which she could not use this detail

33:47 This entire segment right here!!! Persona 4 tries and ALMOST succeeds in making very valuable and interesting insights into social issues but then proceeds to contribute to and feed into said social issues and stigmas! It is so fascinating how persona 4 desires to be about embracing your true identity and "pursuing your true self", and then proceeds to draw the line at being fat, unattractive, queer, etc. P4 takes one step forward and then trips over its feet and tumbles down a staircase lol In Kanji's story, no one ever questions why Kanji being gay is being framed as such a terrible prospect, the characters simply brush past it and the message ends up being "men can be feminine too!" Later on, there is a crossdressing competition and the male characters dressing up in a feminine way is leveraged for comedic value???? It is magical, truly. I feel like Persona 4 is emblematic of an issue where writers want to simultaneously address uglier parts of society but are unable to let go of their own prejudices that stem from societal stigma. And honestly thats what makes it my favourite Persona 4 game, it is so unintentionally hysterical

I really love the "lovers?" contact, I did it every time I had the chance, mostly with Ankou 'cause I just wanted to anoyed it, for "those" lines he always throw on my face, not only is Ankou's case but like 90% of the demons in the game did it too. Yeah Lisa, I know the world is resetting but that doesn't mean you have to kiss your friend's boyfriend :c.

not even 60minutes+ pinky are you even a fan?

This bisexual gal who has been obsessed with persona for over a decade is super excited for this video essay!!! 😍💕 Thanks for making this video!!

Persona 3 reload got rid of the transphobic crap and made the woman a tin foil lied conspiracy theorist. So atlus is getting better

47:38 “MOVE, IM GAY!” -Goro Akechi I will forever love this line in persona 5 (I think it’s only in royal)

Spoilers for Reload cause people went through the game so damn fast, so I know what they did with Ryoji. Yeah he's not even hiding it at this point, bro literally confesses to the protag... AND YOU CAN'T SAY YES, AND THEN FUUKA INTERRUPTS YOU. He also gives you a gift on the 31st, says it sounds like he's confessing his love during the Kyoto trip in an event and it just makes me sad that we just gotta stand there with no option to reciprocate or do much else, besides the umbrella option

Ren crossdressing in the manga (he's so cute! ) reminds me of the typos in dialogue options in french p5r. The typos are like "i'm ready" but using the feminine form of the adjective When i saw the typos i was like omg joker transfem/enby confirmed!

My problem with 4 is that it relies so heavily on humor when that’s the weakest part of Persona’s writing imo. Before we get Naoto and (debatably) Rise, all of your party members are all goofy comedy relief in some way. So you get Yusuke being an ass, Chie kicking people for nonissues, Yukiko laughing too loud or being rude, Kanji liking feminine things in a hypermasculine way, or Teddy being a creep with little to no pushback. Even then, the jokes involving someone being “weird” or “ugly” don’t really get a way to punish the characters for being jerks. Like Hanako turning down Yusuke doesn’t read as Yusuke being desperate and hypocritically picky, but that Hanako should be laughed at because she’s an “uggo” delusionally thinking someone likes her.

Yes yes yes omg the whole Kanji thing! I never been able to put into words why people arguing about Kanji's sexuality is so weird. You put it into words though, yes his character isn't about being gay it's about toxic masculinity and why men should be aloud to enjoy these things but the game does put such an enphazis on the gay portion that's it's hard to take that out of discussion That's what's so bad about all the discourse is people want to take the queerness out of the conversation when you can't because the game is so focused on making the queerness part of their struggles!

I want to personally fistfight Katsura Hashino (director of persona 3, 4, 5, catherine, etc) for some of his "creative" choices like having FeMC being able to romance Ken in P3P or Ryuji getting sexually harrassed by the only two explicitly gay men in all of P5 (on top of that, it happening in Shinjuku, and to go even further, I think it's implied Joker and Ryuji were in Shinjuku Ni-chōme, one of the largest gay districts in Japan. so it's safe to say he knew exactly what he was doing there) don't even get me started on Yosuke in P4

The question of a lifetime...is Akechi gay?

Not important to the queer scene but important about how atlus decided to protray specific types of people the hanako?(the fat girl) scenes always upset me i grew up overweight and ended up losing weight later in life and its truly how the treat that girl ans how she behaves is how the general public see fat people and it's disgusting.. p4 is my favorite game but everytime one of those scenes come on i almost cry because im reminded of my child hood self who was treated badly just because of her size and these developers made her a weirdo bad person because in their head fat = bad

I’m so glad they removed the transphobic joke in p3 in reload 😭😭

17:12 This completely went over my head when I played..

Now that I have had to not instantly post because of my obsession with P2, this was a really good recap of representation in the series :D Which is a change from a few essays on the subject that kinda devolve into "I am now going now to states OPINIONS about the japanese and/or fujoshis" which then start feeling quite akward ^^"

As someone who is part of both the Persona fandom and the LGBTQ+ community, Persona is sooooo disappointing, with so many messages that they have of people’s identities being what should matter first no matter what others say or think. You’d think they would just get it by now and make a good queer character that is open and not ashamed for who they are and are a fully positive representation of LGBTQ+. Everything they have is usually very small or forgotten entirely, Yosuke should’ve been a romance option, that explores his internalized homophobia. Kanji should’ve confronted his feelings about being confused on his sexuality. Naoto while I understand that the point of the social link explains she presents the way that she does because she feels she has to earn respect in the police and detective space that is primarily male dominated and how the sexist culture of the police force is why Naoto is seen as childish and immature even though she’s good at what she does and takes her job seriously, I feel like being actually trans could still work with this link, because even with the way that Naoto is. There is still a line from Dojima and Adachi still feeling insulted that Naoto is allowed on the case even with Naoto appearing more masculine and binding her chest at the time. The police force will always not be supportive of Naoto and her actually being trans and wanting to be a man would still keep the struggle their while also adding depth that their is no changing for others that want you to fail and that what you want for yourself should matter first. I feel I rambled a bunch at the end there, P4 just fumbled the bag when they were so close. Anyway, in summary Gay and Trans Rights

I would love a video of Akechi and his queer coding, it’s a very beloved and personal topic for me. I think a lot of queer people can relate to the themes of being lost or scared and becoming irrational or angry as a result. Shutting yourself off from people is a relatable thing for a lot of reasons and this complex yet loving dynamic is one of the reasons I love royal. I also think that Akechi and his relationship with surpression and letting go is very queer at least in the subtextual ways you usually see queer people as. The dichotomy between the nicer, more palatable Robin Hood with the “disgusting” but true Loki is reflective of social views and Akechis personality. Not to mention the more intense and very gay lines he gets as black mask. Anyway long rant aside to say that I think an Akechi video is a great idea especially relating to the gay themes and dynamics he has. lol love the vid, keep it up!!

Ive been turning this around in my head for 5 years, im so happy to find somebody else just as obsessed

I do remember there is a mod adding back in the Yosuke romance. However I do recall it got flack for apparently the mod maker disregarding the opinions of actual gay people

Are you, like, about to cry the whole time throughout this video? Or are you just nervous? Or is that just generally how you talk? No shame regardless of the answer, it just really stood out to me and I was wondering.

You can also kind of romance Aigis and Elizabeth as the femc in P3P

At the least they changed her to instead be a conspiracy theorist, rather than them freaking out she's trans.

Firstly thank you for the video! You put a lot of thought into it and it shows. I wont say anything about the later persona games, because those really changed the series and were not even directed by the same person, but I will say I don't think persona 2 was that bad. You did say you were dissapointed by the sapphic rep that was there, but it was inherrently not good rep you said yourself, and it wasnt meant to be, but also I dont think that it makes persona 2 bad. You said there's other problems with their relationship like the age difference, and while yeah I will point out legal age of consent in both Japan, UK and another few countries is 16, (which is why in JP media you often see like glorification of the student/teacher thing) I dont think this scene was it, or trying to glorify anything. I also don't think the message there was to say "gay people are bad". Bc well that's not the only gay characters in the game, we have Jun and Tatsuya which you admit yourself are pretty good for each other. So I dont think it's right to say "The only thing bad about it is it's gay" or that "It's the only reprisentation" Persona 2 handles it's theams and characters very well and better than some of the later persona games. I belive though the main director for P2 ended up leaving Atlus after though, and that directing switch for the persona series is partly why things changed. I have heard though he went on to make other games though that actually did include more well written queer chracters. His name is slipping my mind right now, so feel free to fact check this. But yeah, maybe that was a scene you didn't like and the only lesbians in the game, but I dont think it was trying to say gay people are evil not by far. I think yes Jun was for fanservice bc shounen ai was quite popular at the time, but I dont think it was done maliciously. Like that romance route was done leagues better thant a lot of yaoi that was popular then. Say what you want about neo persona, but P2 deserves more credit.

AAAAHH im so obsessed with this topic too so im excited to see this video rn yaya!!

this is just what i needed... im just getting into persona and i bought persona4 2 weeks ago and its so good, and halfway through i think (at the camp arc ?idk if thats half), I heard so much about persona im glad im seeing queer content as a trans woman 💞💗it was an instant like and subscribe for me.... Looking forward to finishing it and other persona games, and your content as well 🫂💕

Awesome video! ❤💜

Just out of curiosity what sene do you think was worse. The transpobice sene in p3 of the homophobic scene in p5. Regardless i'm happy they changed the sene in p3 and said they did not in p5. Another thing I like is how shadow Noato is a robot something that had no gender or age I think that really fits with her story.

Seriously forgot they had a beach scene in 3. I only saw someone else get that far though. I found the permanent sunshine really boring. I kind of liked jabbing Yosuke. Like at the group date cafe scene.

I think you’ll like reload for a very specific reason

Why do you assume that we do *not* know about Persona? This appearing in our recommended probably means we've played Persona

you forgot to mention femc elizabeth romance!!!

12:00 the reason when all the villains of Transistor being gay and the two good guys are the straight couple made me go... 🤔 (Probably more of an odd coincidence, but still xD). Also, others have mentioned it, but yeah, but I wouldn't trust the 3-4-5(vanilla)'s team about P1-2's writing intentions x) especially since I do believe Caligula Effect 2 has some old school persona team on it and apparently that one has some good trans rep ? (Don't quote me on it though, I would need to recheck)

You forget the secret scene in Persona 2 if you dont help Yukino to obtain her Ultimate Persona...her shadow commits suicide with Anna and kissed her on her lips...

akeshu supremacy ✊️

Ngl the whole reason I got persona 3 on my switch was because it was on sale and I misunderstood I could be bi. My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined that I can’t date Ryoji…

People don’t like the nampa scenes?

I'll try my best to be respectful persona 1 don't really have any LGBT stuff cause the game was to busy making a character look racist as for persona 2 never played them so I have nothing to say persona 3 beach scene in both the og and remake are a cheap joke that will be forgotten in 5+ years persona 4 Kanji is unsure about himself and acts like he does is do to how he was treated in middle school by the girls and boys cause he like playing home and sowing so he got bullied which he does have a good social link that goes into all of that as for Naoto even I'll say she is a tricky talking point as for me I found her story to be good and was one of my favorite character in the game so I'll try to be open minded that said she was pushed into acting like a boy to be taken more seriously where she had to look and act the part was it messed up that 2 of the characters couldn't be their true selves yeah but that is also what makes Kanji and Naoto so interesting they must face their true selves and finally accept that as for Ai and Hanako on the surface it looks bad and in modern day it is but once you get pasted that it's a lot different Ai try to be beautiful and everything that goes with it but by doing that she ended up being ugly on the inside and has no self worth where on the other hand hanako may look bad on the outside but she has self worth and don't really care what people think about her looks and to finish up I got nothing to that wasn't said about persona 5 even I found that scene to be messed up to the point I just fast forward through it

👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾

Sanada pointing out chin hair on her chin when cis women also get chin hair (you know, because women also get facial hair?) is galaxy brain writing for sure /s. By that logic he should assume every guy with a clean-shaven face is female

atlus is always hypocritical when it comes to homophobia, p3dophilia, fatphobia and things like that

I hope P6 can actually step it up and add gay romance 🗿

Thank you for speaking on this. I enjoyed p5 but felt so bummed I couldn't romance ryuji or Any of the males. The game felt in complete and a slap in the face to the lgbtq ppl who support atlas with our money. I'm enjoying p3 reload the game is soooo heteronormative its insane . I'm glad I get to at least be platonic but the dialog options don't let me object to the constant male characters assuming I like women only. It just bums me out I feel Like we are erased in jrpgs . Even tho we have supported these companies. I'm excited to try tactica just so I can romance ryuji. I hope p6 allows us to romance whoever we want. I love baldurs gate 3 it's the first time I really felt they let us fully enjoy the romance system in a rpg

This video made persona 4 my favorite game

NAOTO IS NOT TRANS. will people get that through your heads? She dressed and talked like a boy because she wanted to be taken seriously as a detective. Do you people actually PLAY THIS GAME?

The part of Naoto is clearly a wrong interpretation of what the game is truyle talking about. The game is a critique of what we percieve in others and how those arquetipes or stereotypes are wrong and just a superficial projection cast upon others. Need proof? Remember that the shadows of persona 4 are different from other persona games, as you are not only fighting against your own projection but also the projection of the public, so the image of "ideal man" doesn't only come from Naoto, it also comes from the media, girls that are persuing her, believing she is a "charming prince" (an stereotype throw to handesome men in Japan, always remember the context), so the shadow is using the "surgery" as a distortion of the true desire, to cast away everything that is an obstacle in her goal. Also is a big jump that she is experimenting with her identity (that isn't experimentation, because it doesn't come from curiosity or search of identity), as is more akin to searching for validation in a culture where women aren't treated equal in the context of the police. Sae in P5 is a continuation in those topics. So yeah, this whole argument falls apart even more when we factor the ending in golden where she shows her female attributtes without shyness. Also Naoto is a gender neutral name, as it is Akira or many others in japanese culture. And the final nail in this discussion, this is a trope in a lot of anime and manga with a lot of female characters as far back in the 80's that disguises as men because of some goal or other objective they are pursuing, and if she develops some crush or romantic feelings to the male lead, they usually are confronted to be more "femenine" to gain their attention and is a common trope they are shown wearing dresses in a comic or romantic situations and be embarassed because they don't usually use that kind of clothing, is cliche at this point, so that is another point against the argument. With Naoto, this is just putting a little more nuance in the context of 2008 (when the game was released, so trans issues where not in the table of videogame designers in Japan at the moment), so it doesn't matter how one wants to interpret the character, Naoto being trans is just plain wrong

I would want to watch the whole video really I would however The moment I Saw You identifying as "Queer" it just feels alienating to a right-wing bi person😮‍💨 I don't feel any bad will but I can see almost instantly you'll be filtering this through your particular political lens and this would probably make me angry. I'm going to respectfully bow out in love here to save myself utter frustration.

I didn't so much stumble across this video so much as, I heckle (/lh) you about tma on tiktok so I watch your RU-vid content too.