Part 1 of a educational series I'm doing on the history of salsa dancing. This first video explores the Cuban and African heritage of the music and dance. www.nysalsa101.com
Pleas learn folks. ALLcuban music is a product of African and Spanish influence. Instruments to Rythm. However, Cubans were the reason it ended up in the USA, a fact we barely get credit for.
Jamal Young Africans are known for more music than Spain, but Spain isn't not known for music. Flamenco is Spanish as is their own version of Bolero and a few other well known styles in Europe. They do have internationally known styles, but obviously not as influential as that of the music produced by African descendants. Point is, in Cuba, most music is a fusion of different groups and the Spaniards are not to be left out, even if the music is predominantly African.
I would recommend that we all recognize it to be a largely African influence. The Spanish contribution is primarily in the language (lyrics) forced upon the slave in Cuba, who immersed themselves in Spanish and Catholicism, to disguise their own deities they worshipped, and to function in an oppressed society for the Black community in Cuba. Cubans are not the reason it (Afro Cuban Music) ended up in the USA. You can thank U.S. record labels (operated by Caucasian Anglo-Americans) in the early part of the 20th century for flying down Cuban vocal and guitar duos, who interpreted Habanera, Zapateo, Cancion (
CUBA ARE THE NINGS OF LATIN MUSIC, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT, KEEP LISTENING TO THE CUBAN MUSIC SING BY THE BORICUAS OR COLOMBIANS, AT THE END IS CUBAN MUSIC, EVEN THE INTRUMENTS...
From Salsa Wikipedia with Reference : Regarding the genre's origin, Johnny Pacheco,[3] creator of the Fania All-Stars, who "brought salsa to New York"[4] (of which some members include: Tito Puente, Ray Barretto, Willie Colón, Larry Harlow, Johnny Pacheco, Roberto Roena, Bobby Valentín), explained[5] that "..salsa is and always had been Cuban Music."
Steer clear form Wikipedia as it is written and edited by just about anyone. A much better route is to cite scholarly work. For the layman, to define "Salsa" as representing a technical form of music is to learn the Afro Cuban culture. To put "Salsa" in context with the global community is to learn the cultures of Latin America. Not just its music but its history from a social and political context, as that history is illustrated within the lyrics of Son based popular music interpreted by Cubans and non-Cubans.
@CFITOMAHAWK2 This one is mambo - search exactly "Jeritan Batinku ibu" on youtube. Listen. Conga, and Mambo. We are talking a 1950s production here. Very influenced by Perez Prado and Benny More.
@AfroMalaya I know Salsa are based on Afro Cuban rhytms. Only a few young ignorant PR's don't accept the Cuban and African part. They don't know that part at all or just want to ignore it due since 1970's most Salsa hits in the world are from Puerto Rican or NYRican musicians. Part was the USA boycott but even in countries without boycott like Canada or Mexico, and many others the PR Salsa dominated the market for decades, the Emmys and Latin music Awards. Reguetton is now taking over, I think.
@AfroMalaya The conga makes different sound, the cone shapes and the deep richness and tones are very different than the bembé,Makuta, and Yuka; which is conga's antecedent.. That is why Congas (and Bongos) are irreplaceable on Latin Orchestral arrangements. The tone is very different, if i play the African drums (which i did three weeks ago on stage) it was a feminine interpertation whereas the conga's sound, are masculine. The technique of hitting them are also different, tones varies, etc.
The term Salsa was never used by the Cubans when they were familiar of the fact that Mambo and Cuban Son was derived by African rhythms. Cuban Son and Mambo was what Cuba had. There was no Salsa yet. However, decades later, the "term" Salsa was created by New York Ricans (Nuyoricans.) By taking Puerto Rico's Bomba and Plena (which was also derived from African sounds) together with Cuba's Son, America's Jazz, Rock, Pop, R&B, and Disco, then blending them together in order to spice it all up to create what was named Salsa by the Nuyoricans! Mambo was influenced into Salsa dancing. That is why basically all the Salsa artists are Puerto Ricans and Puerto Ricans dominate Salsa till this day.
Read above...Cuban Pete, Joe Cuba, Machito and his "Afro Cubans" were Puerto Ricans..The most famous "Cubans" in Cuban music were stylish and classy Puerto Rican Musicians..Before and after Castro Puerto Ricans are and were the better ones on Mambo and Salso music and dancing..But The Mafia wanted all Americans to go to Cuban Casinos,,not very farther away Puerto Rico..They advertised all as Cubans, or no money for you..Anyway the music was mostly Cuban origin, so PR's artist accepted those names..If they didnt accept they the mafia would block them all over..But they were...Puerto Ricans....
BX TITAN --Puerto Rico lo hace mejor..Most Miss Universe winners per population, most boxer champions per population, most Latin Grammys and Emmy Awards per population.. Most high school bilingual graduates than even USA or most Europe too..and we can dance and box better than them too..PR lo hace mejor..
Salsa was invented by Mexicans. When Mexicans talking about great Salsa they are talking about great sauce for tacos. It was a stolen word used by Puerto ricans to brand their genre of Music because Salsa was already popular. It is like when someone famous uses something already famous in History like Meringue that was a popular dessert was used to label the Dominican Music genre because it was already popular. 2 food items that had origins that originated outside the Caribbean but were copied by Caribbeans for other people to identify with. In the Meringue case it was so Dominicans and Europeans could associate with the music in the case of Salsa it was Puerto ricans trying to make a connection with the larger Mexican community in the States as Salsa was branded in the United States in New York. The Music originated with the Afro Cubans and re branded by Puerto ricans in New York.
In the early 1960s, JOHNNY PACHECO was at the top of CUBAN- DOMINICAN -PUERTO RICO based Latin music. Born in the DOMINICAN REPUBLIC and raised in New York, Pacheco was a Juilliard-trained multi-instrumentalist who found success playing and recording with his Pacheco and Su Charanga orchestra. At the scene, he met Italian-American policeman-turned-attorney Jerry Masucci, a passionate fan of the Latin sound from New York. When Pacheco's marriage fell apart in 1962, he turned to Masucci to handle the divorce. As one union dissolved, another was born: a Latin music label called Fania Records. The two put $ 5,000 into their company and initially sold albums from their car trunks in Spanish Harlem. The label, in no time, established the musical genre that would become known as salsa, a collision of the traditional Cuban / DOMINICAN SON and pan-Latin rhythms, such as African American jazz and funk.
Antes de que Fania Records se convirtiera en el centro del universo de la música salsera, 🇩🇴 Johnny Pacheco entregaba la música de su joven compañía desde la cajuela de su viejo Mercedes. Siendo ya un célebre intérprete que había estudiado percusión en Juilliard, él y un socio, el abogado Jerry Masucci, lanzaron Fania en 1963. A medida que la compañía discográfica creó una plataforma ampliada para su música y la de otros, el negocio comenzó a atraer a superestrellas como Celia Cruz, Héctor Lavoe, Rubén Blades y Willie Colón. Pacheco pronto se convirtió en líder de la Fania All Stars
How can I see more of the Danzon video (cover image: ladies in red, men in black)? I'm trying to understand how Rumba and Mambo came from Danzon. Also the relation between Bolero-Son and Rumba & Mambo.
@pdeleon9 Still waiting for 4 months for those Bachata recordings from before 1962 from Dominican Republic. They don't exist. Bachata used to be call Bolero Ritmico by the musicians to distinguish it from the Cuban Bolero and other slower Boleros. Hear Daniel Santos Ciego De Amor and Si Tu Me quisieras from 1939. They are dozens of those from Daniel Santos. Sounds exactly and can be danced exactly like what they call since the 1980's "Bachata". Or Bachata sounds exactly like that better said
@CFITOMAHAWK2 No materials in Cuba, so they rebuild it and it became different. Afro-Malaya is the name of a project to revive the 1930-50s era of Asian music that was based on Afro-Cuban rhythm that centered in Peninsular Malaysia (the old name is Malaya). There is a rumba band named after the project "Afro Malaya Conga Band", and also we work with Latin artists that comes by the region, both music and dance. We work wt mostly Cubans (cause they can get in w/out Visa) & others frm PR, etc.
@loveangel71 "but professor loveangel, Vico C has said that Reggaeton is not from PR and the history books and the internet say that El General is the Godfather of Reggaetton." Please provide proof to your claims.
Respond to this video... were mostly 6 bands from Puerto Rico and 3 from Cuba. Fania were mostly Puerto Rican stars and 3 Cubans bands. Main singer of his band was Pete "El Conde Rodriguez" from Ponce, Puerto Rico. Fania Records were the promoters that brought Salsa BACK to compete with Rock and Roll in the 70's and keep it alive after almost died in the 60's w/ Cuban bands
Please can i use this in an essay for school? I'm writing an essay about salsa and i need to include a part about the origins, and i have found these videos really useful. I would appreciate it alot if i could have copyright permission. Thanks :)
@loveangel71 Here is another interview with Vico C and to quote Vico - "I do not see the reggaeton as their own or Panama or Puerto Rico. I see this as something very own. Now, to hip hop do not see it as something basic, born and continues, and I do in Spanish. " This is from a Nov 2009 interview. Google Mailienteo interview Vico C.
💯📖🎼🎤🎶👂💖✊💪✌😇🗽🐀🐅🇩🇴 THE GREAT DOMINICAN MUSICIAN MASTER FOREVER .. FATHER of SALSA MUSIC. JOHNNY PACHECO AFRO TAINO Caribbean cuba DOMINICANA pr he left an incomparable legacy ...
@loveangel71 The only thing that was "born" in PR was the name but the genre is still the same as when Shaba and El General first produced their records.
@loveangel71 Wait, what? Last time I checked, PR was a commonwealth of the US. What mark did it make in history? How did it prove to be stronger than any big country? Are you making things up again?
@loveangel71 NO. To site your own source - "The name reggaeton only gained prominence in the mid-1990s (from the 1994 to 1995 period), with the Dem Bow beat characterising the genre; this is in contrast to the more reggae, dancehall and hip hop -derived tracks previously created. The name was reportedly created in Puerto Rico to signify the hybrid sound created from the years of mixing the different genres. Today, the music flourishes throughout Latin America." Name was reportedly created in PR
@loveangel71 Perreo is a dance that in the US it's called grinding, booty dancing or freak dancing. Perreo is the same exact dance as these dances in the US but I guess according to your warped logic, this dance was invented in PR because it was renamed Perreo. oh boy.....
@loveangel71 Here is something that might open your eyes. Vico C in an interview says that Reggaeton is from Jamaica and the states, specifically a style called rub a dub. I actually like the interview and have a lot of respect for Vico C and all he has been through. While he doesn't say Reggaeton was started in Panama, he does say that it wasn't in PR. Google, latinrapper Vico C interview. It's a good interview.
The principal instruments and music are not Cuban, but African. Even the names, Guaracha, Rumba, Conga, Guaguanco are African, not in Spanish. In Puerto Rico they MOSTLY accept the Rhytms of Salsa are African music based. In Cuba with little to show in the last 40 years they want to claim African Music is their creation mostly. That is also racist due many white Cubans were in those bands they say created Salsa, hence Cuban whites should get big credit too. That is the Cuban version of Salsa
@loveangel71 You left out the last sentence of this paragraph!!!!! "The 'under' scene widened when Puerto Rican and Cuban styles mixed with Panamanian-style reggae." Meaning, what is known as Reggaeton today, has PR, Cuban and Panamanian-style reggae. I can't believe you censor and article to support a false claim.
Where do you get this from? I don't know any Cubans that do, unless they're straight up Spaniard descendants. You must be thinking of Boricuas and Dominicans...
I think you're talking about dominicans. I know Cubans that say they're black. You can have cubans that look like idris elba and say they're hispanic not dominican. The real "hispanics" are the people from mexico, central america and south america that are mixed with spaniard and native american blood. Brazillians are mixed black and portugese. Cubans are mixed with spanish and black. Dominicans are mixed somewhat but to a lesser extent. Puerto ricans are mixed black and white too. Some have taino blood in them from the islands but the same can be said for people in any carribean island. The thing is that there was a racist history in many spanish islands where people tried they're best to not be connected to africa. But then again if you want to keep telling people that you're people originated on a small little island and that's you're only history, then sure. More power to you.
We don't. We just dont like it when we are called black especially when we are clearly mixed. We arent living in the early 60s and under. The one drop rule was rules unconstitutional in 1967 so why would an American even think such crap? Still brainwashed stuck in the Jim crow days!!!
@loveangel71 My point is reggeaton was not born in PR. Giving a genre a new name to something that was already being done in Panama does not make PR the inventor of reggaeton. So look at all the albums produced by El General. All reggeaton. to be continued.
@loveangel71 My God, I ask for clarification from your statement about PR being stronger than any big country you give me achievements. No different then any other US state infantry. How does this make PR stronger than any big country? PR is a commonwealth of the US.
@loveangel71 Lets follow your warped logic. lets say I take all the rhythms and beats that defines reggaeton and I decided to add cow bell or more cow bells to it. So everything is the same except for the more cowbells. BUT now I decide to call it cow bellaeton and I produced it in new zealand. So if I follow your logc then cow bellaeton was "invented in new zealand" and it's a whole new genre. I can hear the coocoo clock ringing now.
@loveangel71 You were there when a name was created for something that already existed. Vico C was there and even he is intelligent enough to admit it's not from PR.
@loveangel71 the only reason u can push it and package it because of the embargo. Prior to embargo the cubans need no help - Benny More, Perez Prado, Septeto, all moved forward. Its the embargo made the conduit possible through Puerto Ricans. Comprende?
@loveangel71 please direct me to a site or youtube video in which the rhythm of "Bachata" is clearle heard in the 1920's like you say. So far the only one that was send to me or else was an obscure 1962 one from a singer that used to sing with Felipe Rodriguez, Odilio Gonzales and other PR's in NYC and theathers in PR since the early 1950's. Let me see those 1920's 1930's or 1940's youtube "Bachata" records you are talking about. Show the proof. Lets see. So far nothing before 1962 I have seen.
@loveangel71 Umm , OK, let me educate you on how books and articles are written. When someone writes book and articles they do research and place citations and resources in their book or articles. Good example is Wikipedia. It site sources. Wikipedia says Reggaeton originated in Panama. If you google history of Reggaeton, all articles say it originated in Panama. Vico C in an interview states that it did not originate in PR.
@loveangel71 "But professor loveangel, it says here in the history books and the internet that it was invented in Panama." Please provide proof to backup your claims.
@loveangel71 And I said, there are many PR's that agree reggaeton originated in Panama. That's a very week argument. Panamanians hate Reggaeton because they hate the name. For them, Reggae in spanish is their invention. Like the Cubans originally hated the word Salsa because salsa is just cuban music. PR takes credit for creating a name but not inventing a genre that originated in Panama.
@CFITOMAHAWK2 In Africa, the congas are made from Logs and the name is not even Conga in africa. The cuban conga "tumbadora in spanish to be specific", developed by the Afro-cubans slaves , are made from barrels (what is left over), so it was barrels which are tied with ropes. Thus the varying sound and shape. The Cahoun, the box in which the music can be made, is made from cigar boxes. Slaves didnt carry their drums, so they had to improvesid- so the tumbadora is therefore invented in Cuba.
Ballroom Latin as latin dances in general has some over lapping to them, Ballroom Rumba is nothing like Salsa. The figures largely follow that of Ballroom Cha Cha Cha. Salsa in the other hand, by the looks of it, looks like a mixture of afro and rock and swing dances.
@loveangel71 You didnt born Salsa, you just rebrand them.. you didnt born reggaeton, you just rebrand them. Stop thinking puerto ricans are the greatest..Lol. Even tito puentes clearly said it was cuban music. What made you think its Puerto Rican? Just because a bunch of Canadians do Kung Fu doesnt make it Canadian! It is still Chinese.
The base of ALL salsa music is the Clave, particulary the Son Clave 3/2 and 2/3. Son is as Cuban as Reggae is to Jamaicans. The Son Clave is played differently from Rhumba / Guaguancho clave, although similiar. The Tres meets the Clave at Santiago de Cuba (birthplace of Son Montuno - Today's Salsa in bpm and arrangements) circa 1920s and the piano meets the Tres/Clave in Havana circa 1930s. Without the Son, there is no Salsa. The Mambo is offspring of Danzon and Son heritage. Btw Mambo is dead
@loveangel71 Reggae was "born" in Jamaica. Dance hall was "born" in Jamaica. Reggae en espanol was "born in Panama. Hip hop and rap was "born in the US. Put them all together and what do you get.....Reggaeton. Well, I don't see PR anywhere. The only thing PR gets credit for is creating a name because naming it Reggae, hip hop etc... is way to long. Lets commercialize it just like salsa. A mix of Cuban music.
Fact is, and I state that again, "FACT IS;" Cuban music was instrumental in the development of the Salsa. The elements of the Son are visible at every turn of the Salsa's first TEN years of history "BUT" from this to imply that Salsa originated in Cuba by Cuban musicians is a stretch of the imagination in light of the evidence!! With that being said; Keep dreaming buddy. :D This attitude towards music and willingness to experiment that took shape in Puerto Rico in the late 50's was transplanted to New York in the early 60's when Puerto Rican musicians started moving to this city that they viewed as the place to make their talent known. This transplanted generation meet in this city with a new generation of Puerto Ricans ready to take up the labor of creativity and give birth to Salsa. Again New York became for young Puerto Rican Salsa musicians what it was for Puerto Rican quartets and singers in the 30's. This new attitude towards music and musical creativity also moved to Cuba with the arrival of the revolutionaries. They brought with them, not only a political revolution but also a cultural revolution and this accounted for Cuba easily adopting Salsa when it came to itself. This music that they saw as coming from US friends of those that came down from Oriente was the next logical step in the evolution of the Cuban music. You got that? Are you following me here? For them it was easy because the Cuban Afro-Caribbean musical background and the strong presence of elements of the Cuban Son in salsa made it feel as a new format for their own music. Thus, by the time of the formation of the anti- Castro-Cuban-Exile community in the US, Salsa was ALREADY a new musical form in Puerto Rico that had moved to Cuba!! Are you with me?? No? Not yet? Well; Incidentally, this is not the first time that something like this happens. While many historians say that the latin american bolero started in the early 1880's in Cuba this type of bolero actually developed from the Andaluzan bolero via Puerto Rico. The Andaluzan bolero that arrived to Puerto Rico in the XIX century underwent a transformation in structure as well as in tempo. However, it did not saw its discovery to the outside world until it arrived to Cuba in the early 1880's. There it kept its new structure but its tempo was further accelerated. It came to Cuba after the Lares uprising with the arrival in Cuba of exiled Puerto Rican revolutionaries fighting against the Spanish Rule. Are you following me? In the early 60's this new form of Puerto Rican music later called Salsa was born in New York to satisfy the demand for things Puerto Ricans from the now established community that developed as a result of the migration of almost half a million Puerto Ricans to New York during the 50's!! At the same time, however, a new massive migration, this time of Cubans, was taking place but their main goal was the city of Miami in Florida!!! NOT NYC!!! The need of the Cuban Exile community to develop a new "Cuban American" personality acceptable for all in the US moved them to adopt some modes of other groups that preceded them. They took as they see fit and claimed as their creation some popular cultural trends that had not been claimed by others before!!!!! Hence the MYTH that Salsa started in Cuba. This was aided in part by a slew of excellent refugee writers that came to the US as a result of the closing of several Cuban newspapers in the island. Some of these writers were, and still are, respected chroniclers of the Latin entertainment scene that have produced very valuable historical documents. However, they tend to have a certain Cuban bias that produces a distorted interpretation of facts as it pertain with creations that have some elements of Cuban influence. Also some ascending Cuban musical performers headed further up north, to New York and found that acceptance was easier if they adopted the music of the dominant hispanic community. The Cuban singer La Lupe, for example, was accepted not for guarachas or other distinctively Cuban sounds but for performing the same music that the Puerto Ricans played and danced to at the time of her arrival!!!!! ARE YOU WITH ME?? However, the strongest evidence of this was Celia Cruz which at her arrival to the New York Metropolitan area was known as "La Guarachera de Cuba" or the guaracha singer from Cuba. Within a few years she came to understand that her music did not have a future among the new musical generation in the north and by 1971, HALF A DECADE after Hector Lavoe and Willy Colon, she began to sing salsa. Finally the cubans had somebody that could claim Salsa as their property and didn't waste time in promoting her to the point that this guaracha singer which found so much help from the Puerto Rican musician community in New York soon began to be called "la Reina de la Salsa." :D Hence the MYTH that Salsa came from Cuba comes from the fact that it has strong elements of Cuban music, especially of the Cuban "Son", the over zealousness of the Cuban writers that can not come to terms with the fact that some other people took the Cuban Son and other styles and created something as impacting as Salsa and the adoption of it into the acts of arriving Cuban performers. The evidence, however, points in another direction. Not only there is evidence that the elements that GAVE BIRTH TO SALSA came together in the late 50's in places like Santurce, Puerto Rico but there is also ample evidence that the ones that helped to transport it to the international arena were for the most part Puerto Ricans and in particular Puerto Ricans that were from New York or that at a certain point of their life lived in New York. If Salsa had originated in Cuba its spread would have been from Miami on out and not from New York on out!!!! I bet you still don't follow ain't I right?? Does it hurt?? The point at which we find the Puerto Rican musicians at fault is at failing to claim their creation as their own!! This is due to the fact that Boricuas tend to ignore the envy set upon them by other Latinos... They were too busy "making Salsa" to care about taking proper credit for their very own, CREATION!!! As a final note we have to mention that Ismael Rivera, the person also named by the handle "Sonero Mayor" can also be considered the "FATHER OF SALSA!!" The person that set the patterns to follow by the salsa for the following 40 years!!! The biggest surprise to you fools is, I'm not even Puerto Rican ;) My grandfather was. My wife is.
I am going to correct some inaccuracies you made. 1. Bolero was born from Trova style, which was created by Pepe Sánchez. It didn't come in from PR, it went TO PR. Comments like yours are why Cubans have a distrustful attitude toward Ricans. Stop trying to rewrite the history in their favor. They even know they didn't create it. Look up Bolero in Cuba and you will see overwhelming evidence of how it was created. Cubans were traveling through the Caribbean during the early to mid 19th century, and with them came rhythms from the island, that were transplanted into places like PR. Funny you try to say its the other way around though. Even Danza in PR came from Danzon in Cuba, which predates the PR offspring sound. Face facts, PR got a lot of influence from Cuba. It was seldom the other way around. Don't believe me? RU-vid Bomba in Cuba. You'll find nothing. RU-vid Rumba in PR, there are ACTUAL GROUPS dedicated to that genre. 2. NY was a hotbed of Latin music way before Ricans flooded the city. Cubans were already there, involved with the jazz scene decades earlier. By the time Ricans came along, Son had already evolved into a couple of different other genres under the Son continuum. So to say only 1 Cuban style gave rise to Salsa is completely inaccurate. The evidence of early recordings from Pérez Prado and other artists like him also disagree with you. Mambo is structured pretty much exactly the same as Salsa and it has ZERO influences from PR. PR added Bomba and Plena in the 70's, after it took off as Salsa. But the rhythmic patterns of the Conga CLEARLY belong to Rumba. I have listened to enough PR music to understand that NOTHING in it sounds like Salsa. You cannot switch to a Plena rhythm anywhere in a Salsa song because instrumentation is also different from that of Salsa. Same with Bomba. Try to lay over the brass and piano in Salsa into a Bomba rhythm. Bet you can't. Now do it over a Rumba, bet it fits well. Because it's heritage is FROM Rumba and Son. The clave alone proves this, and THAT is not a PR thing at all, other than what they get from Cuba.3. Lastly, there are no wrong accounts. Ricans did IN FACT take music that existed in the city, which was from Cuba, and throw a few other elements in to make Salsa. However, they acted as if they did this alone for many years. Cubans were involved. Dominicans were involved, Venezuelans were involved, and very seldom did any of them get credited for that. Listen to early recordings from Roberto Roena. Sonora Poncena, they sing Cuban Rumbas written a decade or more before and pass them off as Salsa tunes they themselves wrote, all the while giving zero credit to the originators. So, it's no surprise Cubans have the attitude we have. Acere Ko - Sonora Poncena, ORIGINALLY written and composed by Potato Valdez between 4 and 7 years earlier. You tell me how 'creative' Ricans were... I can certainly name more than this as well. Also, songs with Kikongo words talking about African religions... You must be kidding me if you think that creativity came from PR...
DRO NOYB WRONG!!! Andaluzan Bolero via Puerto Rico was derived from BOMBA music in which was created by Afro-Puerto Ricans during the 17th Century!! THAT'S THE 1600s!!! NOT THE 1800s!! Get your facts straightened out... Cubans, and many other Latinos can't stand facts and hate to research them on their own. I speak the truth. Fuck all your folly and opinions. I also don't read shit through websites written by other bias and sociopathetic Latinos. The Andaluzan bolero that arrived to Puerto Rico in the XIX century underwent a transformation in structure as well as in tempo. However, it did not saw its discovery to the outside world until it arrived to Cuba in the early 1880's!! There it kept its new structure but its tempo was further accelerated INTO WHAT YOU CALL BOLERO!! Fact is, It came to Cuba AFTER the Lares uprising with the arrival in Cuba of exiled Puerto Rican revolutionaries fighting against the Spanish Rule. Another fact is, Puerto Ricans can't stand that Bolero boring shit and so they put no mind to it what-so-ever!! Do some real research and figure out on your own how and when Bomba came about and then other Latino musical sounds were all derived from it. If it wasn't for Bomba, Cuba would not have had it's Son, Bolero would never existed, and Salsa would have never hit NYC.
Eachone Teachone Based on your response and use of language and the fact that you state the same nonsense with no actual evidence to back you up just shows you know absolutely nothing about this history. No different from most Ricans of today. Keep believing your nonsense while real scholars and ethnomusicologist keep proving you wrong. FYI, even PR websites BY Ricans have Bolero listed as Cuban. The fact that you don't even know who Pepe Sánchez is proves how little you know. Bomba, for the record, was born in the 19th century from French and Anglo Caribbean immigrants. This is a well researched fact with compounding evidence. Accept the fact that Ricans jack most of their flavor from everyone else so we can all move on. Like I said before, look up Rican rhythms in other countries, you find nothing. Look up other countries rhythms in PR, you find ALOT. They are always adopting someone else's music and slapping a new label on it. That is a FACT. Merengue, Bachata, Bolero, Guaracha, Danza, Son, Rumba, Reggae in Spanish. All from other places.
Eachone Teachone By the way, don't even bring up the Spanish American war. PR worked under the Cuban liberation movement when they were both fighting for independence. But Cubans were traveling to PR with music BEFORE that. So get YOUR facts straight. As for them not caring about Bolero, guess what. We don't give a shit. Play, don't play it. Doesn't change where you get it from or who influenced you. Just know this, NO ONE plays PR music OTHER than Ricans. Everyone else doesn't care for it. You wont see Dominican, Cuban, Colombian, Mexican, etc. Bomba or Plena groups because we don't care for that music. But Ricans always have a group dedicated to other genres from other countries. Like I said, proofs in the pudding. Good day to you and good luck on your education in this subject.
DRO NOYB Wow, your claims all sound like emotional opinions to me. It's ok though, I'm only hear to teach... You have no facts kid. PRs were also traveling to Cuba with their Bomba y Plena music fool... Wayy before your great grandfather was in pampers. You have absolutely nothing to back up your words. All you're doing is throwing out guesses and things you "heard" before. What evidence do you need for me to send you? Point one out and I'll send it to you. Try me. Your guesses only show me that you don't know sht about History. You're delusional dude. Lmfaoo! No different from Rican haters of today. It is a fact that most of Latin America hate on Ricans. Envy is a mtha fuka isn't it? Don't tell me Ricans have nothing to hate because Latin Countries that do talk shit about Ricans are all oppressed and impoverished. Here we have a "Cuban" obviously angry and upset that Puerto Rico has music that goes WORLD WIDE 'PLATINUM!" I'm not even Puerto Rican but I can very well assure you this is true. All we gotta do is read Cuban, Dominican, and Mexican comments about Puerto Ricans. We just laugh it up. What about the Spanish American War? Lol! Tell me something I don't know. You bring up Pepe Sánchez Lmaoo!! Have you ever heard of Google? If I wanted to know about him, I can use it. Still doesn't defeat the purpose. Try using facts. You totally ignored what I very clearly stated, let me try this again; Andaluzan Bolero... Do you have any idea what that is? Lmao!! Fuck all your folly and opinions. I also don't read shit through websites written by other bias and sociopathetic Latinos. There hardly are any done by Puerto Ricans. They definitely don't speak about your hick music neither. The Andaluzan Bolero that ARRIVED to Puerto Rico in the XIX century underwent a transformation in structure as well as in tempo. However, it did not saw its discovery to the outside world until it arrived to Cuba in the early 1880's!! There it kept its new structure but its tempo was further accelerated INTO WHAT YOU CALL BOLERO!! Did you see anywhere in that passage a claim that your boring ass Bolero music was from Puerto Rico dumbass? Lmaoo!! Fact is, It came to Cuba AFTER the Lares uprising with the arrival in Cuba of exiled Puerto Rican revolutionaries fighting against the Spanish Rule. You got that? No? Not yet? You got that? No not yet? Too slooowwww?? Figures. Now back up your claim about Bomba's creation idiot. Bomba was created by Afro-Puerto Ricans derived from the old historical instruments and sounds of Ancient Africa!!! You're telling me there were no Afro-Puerto Ricans up until the 19th Century?? Lmfaoo!! Godamn you're a fool!! Bomba was created during the 17th Century!! That's the 1600s DUMBASS. :D Puerto Rico has Bomba Y Plena of their very own. There's not one Latin country that has it's own music. Don't get angry that PR happens to have a huge impact on your country through it's music. Are you also angry that PR enjoys music besides their very own? Lollollollol!!! Every musical sound was derived from one source or another. Did you "not" know that fool? From every country there is. Bomba and Plena has the rich sounds of the Tainos and Africans, created in Puerto Rico. Bomba is ancient kid... There are many Bomba groups today, do you actually think Puerto Ricans give a fuck if you enjoy it or not? PR music is Platinum!! Don't me a mouse and compare yourself to a Lion fool... Puerto Rico has enough music you dance to and enjoy along with your wife. What's up with the hate? Does your country have music that is world wide Platinum? I didn't think so... Name me just "one" music from YOUR COUNTRY that was not derived by more than two or three other musics from other countries. You call it "labeling," it's all called derived music idiot and your country has it also but yeah, let's just talk shit about PR because they went World Wide Platinum with their shit right? HEHEHEHE!!!! HATERRRRRRRRRRR Wow!! You're really not the sharpest tool in the shed are you? Tell me more, I'd sure love to make you look stupid again.
@loveangel71 I will wait for your sources but I know it won't come because it's BS. I am not confusing anything. Adding a cowbell and calling it something new is not considered a new genre. Hate to burst your bubble but if it's not original then it's not new. Reggeaton is Dancehall, Den Bow and Reggae with cowbells.
Mambo is the name of the Cuban MALE Sorcerer, or a Santeria Priest in Cuban Santeria "religious " rituals..Orestes song of the 1939 more or less is about a Mambo Santeria leader... Later on in end of 1940's a DANCE STYLE to Cuban fast music, created by "Cuban Pete" was also named as "Mambo style Dancing"..Later on, in 1950's..Americans due they liked the name "Mambo" they started calling all fast Cuban or Puerto Rican fast songs "Mambo Music"..Cubans hated that name for that music which was part theirs. Perez Prado, the Cuban famous band, started calling that music "Mambo" too- and released records with that name to sell more in the American market. The Cubans were furious about him selling out to American record companies. They banned him from TV and Radio and more. Cubans kicked him out of-Forced him out of Cuba. But, But, he went to Mexico were they were making movies, directed mostly by Spanish directors, from Spain. Perez Prado made movies and got a lot of fame with that "Mambo Music". He never returned to Cuba. He was banned there forever. The music was later on in, 1966 named as "Salsa" up to this day. It is mostly danced "Mambo Style", not the Cuban side to side style. Puerto Rican musicians took over the market with many hits up to now. Cuban Pete "Mambo Dancing Style" became famous all over the world due he created over 100 different maneuvers for Mambo Style Dancing. It is the style done on non Cuban places all over the world and all Salsa Competitions. He died 2008 in Puerto Rico..He is buried in Puerto Rico..Why?? Because Cuban Pete was not Cuban. He was Puerto Rican. Cuban Pete was just the name Americans wanted him to use. Not PR Pete. His Business Name only. Real name was Pedro Aguilar...RIP Cuban Pete. Thanks for that stylish Mambo Style Dancing, Mr Aguilar. RIP in Puerto Rico.
Mambo, in Cuba, means a song. It's a kikongo word in the Mayombe traditions. Mambos are sung. It has nothing to do with the lukumi traditions. Please get your facts correct. Lukumi spiritual leaders are illabo or babalawo. We don't call them mambo. You're thinking of Hatian Vodou, where the FEMALE is a mambo. No one knows the true reason for the term mambo other than someone shouting it during a rhythmic section of a song. Beyond that, there's nothing truly linking the dance to the definition of the word as used by spiritual leaders in afro traditions.
@loveangel71 Oh, bullshit. This actually makes sense now, on Vico C sayings it's not from PR. He knows only the name was created in PR but it did not originate in PR. You have failed to prove that the genre known as reggaeton was invented in PR.
Salsa is the final result of this fantastic sound, borned in Cuba and developed in Latino America,it was danced from latinos that lived in USA,and so beatiful and captivating that the american people(black and white)fell in love,and tried to take the control of his sources Cubans and Latinos It is not country music, not rock and roll,no swing or fox trot... salsa is salsa and is for all the peoples of the World. And salseros please speak Latinos!
It’s started with Africans first and West African origins . Please stop tryin to take the baby out with the bath water. People stay stealing things from Africans leaving no true history behind. It’s so shameful and not right.
@SUPERIORcarbonL1L2L3 Wikipedia is not the end all of all sources, nor is it the definitive factor but at the same time it can't be ignored. It's a source among many. It even states on it's own site to cite reliable resources that are provided by the article in question. Which was my original point. Do the research and come to your own conclusion but don't ignore wikipedia, use it as a tool to your analysis not light a candle to it.
@Encephaloneuron1 Yeah we all know that but there are some people saying that its not cuban. Saying it came from Puerto Rico or worst, Africa. We are not limiting the influences of other culture, but they are people here who insists that its not Cuban. If that's the case why not call hip hop from Africa instead of the ghetoos since the african tribesmen are already dancing on their backs.
@loveangel71 Defend??? It's not about defending, it's about historical facts and we are not talking ancient history hear. It's only been 15 years since the genre known as Reggaeton took off. It did not originate in PR. Vico C knows that, the history books knows it, even the internet knows it as well.
@SUPERIORcarbonL1L2L3 LOL, look at the citations, plus the site is administered and subjects are locked down if content is not legitimate. Educate yourself before making comments.
@loveangel71 Who are the some? I have not heard this expression. I have only heard as El General being the GodFather of Reggaeton. I have also read it. El General as worked along many artist as well but one thing does not have to do with the other. He is known as the Godfather of Reggaeton because he is considered the first.. It's there, it's written and it's a fact. You have not given me any facts. Marc Anthony has worked with many artists. Is he the creator of salsa?
@loveangel71 But that is my point! If you make a CHANGE to something that is original and unique then in know way are you the inventor or originator. Let me give an example. In PR they add an extra steering wheel to a car. But they are not going to call it a car anymore in PR it will be renamed the Rican mobile. According to your logic, the car was now INVENTED in PR because PR added an extra steering wheel and gave it a new name. So now the car is a PR invention. Do you see how silly it is?
There is ABSOLUTELY no Puerto Ricans instruments in Salsa used. Everything is Cuban percussions. The only thing Salsa about Puerto Ricans is that they copied it and add some plena and bomba (which is also rearely played) and then sold it to the American market. just because they are an American Colony. And they cant sell to the Americans as Cuban Music cause the word Cuba send shivers and create deep hatreds from the American market.
@Encephaloneuron1 Oh please, this all started because I said Reggaeton is from Panama. If it's nothing to you and we are idiots then mind your own business. You are going against your own argument. I never questioned the intelligence of PR's, just the stereotype of a PR which Lovangel seems to be living proof.
Well if you still have any doubts look up Johnny Pacheco when he and Tito Puente admit Salsa is a food condiment, what they play is Cuban music. Out of the horses mouth 😉
@loveangel71 Those three Cuban bands you mentioned are famous only with some old Cubans and some Communist Hispanicss like a friend of mine that buys those records and listen to them by himself or with with his Commie friends only. They are ok but can't compete with the mainstream Salsa we have for the last 30-40 years. Salsa was dead by the 60's. Even thefamous Paladium closed in 1966 due Rock and Roll took over the pop music. Fania All Stars were the ones that brought Salsa back in the 1970's
Cuban Son was put together with Puerto Rico's Bomba and Plena music, along with America's Jazz, Rock, R&B, and Pop music created by the Puerto Ricans in New York (NYRicans) and they named it Salsa during the 1970s... That is the origin of Salsa... What is the problem with other Latinos ignoring the fact that the Puerto Ricans of New York (Nueyoricans) created Salsa? Many say it was stolen, no it was mixed/blended just like every other big hit musics on the planet... It's called derived music like all other music. The Salsa dance however, is from Mambo and Cha Cha ballroom dancing. It's plain and simple; Salsa is a blend of 1 Cuban sound that was inspired by African culture, 4 American sounds (Jazz, Funk, Rock, and R&B,) and 2 Puerto Rican sounds that were inspired by African culture... Created by the NYRicans... That's that.
Salsa was already popular in the States it was not invented by Puerto ricans. It was taken to re label Afro Cuban music to appeal to a wider demographic then the Caribbean. Just like Meringue was taken from the Europeans by Dominicans to appeal to a wider demographic in Europe because Dominicans were trying to reject their African roots and connect with Europe the same way that Puerto ricans are trying to connect with the Amerindian roots and connect with Mexicans and this is why Salsa the term was taken from the Mexicans and used to label the genre of Music. Even though 90% or more the Taino were wiped out and now Puerto ricans try to copy Mexicans with Azteca and Chicano/Xicano Amerindian terms calling themselves Boricua. People must remember that Puerto Rico was still a Spanish Colony until 1898 and Mexico had become independent country 1810 and changed its name from Nueva Espana to Mexico after the Mexica which were the Aztecs. The word Chicano comes from Mexica which is really Xicano which means Mexicano. Salsa was invented by Mexicans. When Mexicans talking about great Salsa they are talking about great sauce for tacos. It was a stolen word used by Puerto ricans to brand their genre of Music because Salsa was already popular. It is like when someone famous uses something already famous in History like Meringue that was a popular dessert was used to label the Dominican Music genre because it was already popular. 2 food items that had origins that originated outside the Caribbean but were copied by Caribbeans for other people to identify with. In the Meringue case it was so Dominicans and Europeans could associate with the music in the case of Salsa it was Puerto ricans trying to make a connection with the larger Mexican community in the States as Salsa was branded in the United States in New York. The Music originated with the Afro Cubans and re branded by Puerto ricans in New York. Another example is Reggeaton which originated in Jamaica taken to Panama by the Jamaicans who went to build the Panama canal and re-branded Reggeaton by the Puerto ricans. It is the 2nd copied word that Puerto ricans used because they were already popular words Reggae and Salsa so it took off easier and was easier to market because people had already heard the words. Bachata the Dance is just a slow down version of Salsa with Lamabada and African American dirty dancing bump and grind. mixed in. Salsa and Lamabada are faster version dances and what Bachata did was take from these dances and slowed it down with slower music. rhythms just like the copy of Jamaican Dembow is now popular in Dominican Republic.
Jordan Banks I'm still waiting for the next challenge fool. I noticed you deleted a comment you were starting... Daddy Yankee and other artists what?? As far as I'm concerned, every Reggaeton artists (that is Puerto Rican btw) have all very clearly stated that they were inspired by Big Pun's 100%!! That's Hip Hop bruh... So what you're saying??? Have you attempted to even answer any of my questions? Fukoutta here wit' your hating azz delusions "primo!!"
Edgar Cintron You are the only fool here as usual a ignorant delusional Puerto rican wanting to take credit for things they copied or stole. No surprise that the island of Pirates and African slaves continues to try to steal and take credit for other peoples invention or origin. You didn't pass the first challenge fool but fools always will wait for the next challenge not knowing they failed the first challenge badly.
Jordan Banks Stolen? LMFPRAOOO!!! The word is called DERIVED MUSIC 'OL FOOLISH ONE!! ALL YOU MEXICANS AND CENTRAL AMERICAN FOOLS ALWAYS SPEAK THAT FOLLY!!! HATERRRRRSSSSS!!!! LMFPRAOO!!! Let's see if you can answer ANY of my questions since you so-called say I didn't pass!! Show me that you passed then!! Lmfpraooo!!!! Give ME a challenge and name ONE music from your country that was not DERIVED from more than one country!! I DARE YOU TO!! Puerto Ricans took their VERY OWN MUSIC and derived it with other musics to create some shit that your wife shakes her booty to and got you HATING on Boricuas!! You and other Latino haters are also pissed the fucked that our shit went world-wide platinum and yours didn't. Nobody does it better!!! Period, that's about it.
@loveangel71 You said, no one messes with the sons of PR and PR is stronger then any big country. But PR is US property. So you are really saying, no one messes with the US.
@TheeAssyrian2000AD Because Salsa has congo's in the rythm section then it was made by Africans??? It also has trumpets, trombones, saxaphones. Last time I checked, these are all European invented instruments or White people as you like to say.
@Encephaloneuron1 Which article? Development of Salsa if you see from American perspective is myopic. Today, Puerto Ricans do not make salsa music cause they cant sell. Only Cuban, Venezuelans, and even Peruvians (yes those guys) make Salsa, in a modern genre called Timba. Every latin jazz band playing timba outisde the USA wt Timba parties and club launching everywhere int he world except USA (too occupied with Puerto Ricans playing reggaeton). Dont have to believe me, just check wwwtimbadotcom
@SUPERIORcarbonL1L2L3 since your are too lazy to google Zulu history books. Here are a few. Shaka Zulu: The Rise of the Zulu Empire by E. A. Ritter. 383 pgs. Warfare, Political, Leadership, and State Formation: The Case of the Zulu Kingdom, 1808-1879, in Ethnology by Mathieu Deflem. 21 pgs. Journal Article Order and Rebellion in Tribal Africa (Includes discussion of Zulu history in multiple chapters) by Max Gluckman. 278 pgs. Goto to your library and educate yourself.
So if i bought Meat and bread,and someone comes up with their own style of food am i gonna get credit for it,or will the person that prepared the food get credit?Just because the spaniards bought instruments over,dont mean they helped start a whole Genre of music.That's like whites in the states taking credit for Rock n Roll,just because of Guitars.You dont wanna give Blacks credit for their shit,thats why you keep putting Spain in front of Africa.
@loveangel71 More achievements but no different than any other country, ethnicity or race. And all these are US army achievements as well. PR does not have it's own army.
@AfroMalaya Now you are accepting the instruments originated in Africa. Before you said it was all Cuban creations. Those Congas, Tumbas, claves, bongos, were sligthly modified all over as ANY invention is MODIFIED SOMEHOW, but that doesn't mean you invented them. Come on, wake up from your Nationalistic Opium. Congas and BONGOS were modified and still are modified slightly. But they still AFRICAN music instruments. Now you are calling Congas and Bongos Cuban too. Ha, ha. Keep dreaming.
@AfroMalaya Just caught you in another lie. You said Cubans invented a new Conga not made from logs. Now say they just used a different kind of wood (barrels) but that was centuries later. So if I make a now available lighter material kind of bicycle that means I invented the bicycle? The base of Salsa are African Instruments and African Rhythms that were added European instruments and sang in Spanish in the Caribbean, Specially Cuba. But It is still an African creation. Cubans added EU instrum
@loveangel71 You didnt born Salsa, you just rebrand them.. you didnt born reggaeton, you just rebrand them. Stop thinking puerto ricans are the greatest. When i was in college near washington, dc everyone hated puerto ricans cause of their arrogant behaviour. Plus they're all named juan anyhow. Lol. Even tito puentes clearly said it was cuban music. What made you think its Puerto Rican? e.g. Just because a bunch of Canadians do Kung Fu doesnt make it Canadian! It is still Chinese.
@loveangel71 oh dear, let's follow your logic then. Origin of Reggaeton. Reggae = Jamaica, Spanish Reggae= Panama. Den bow = Jamaice. Spanish Rap = Jamaica. Bomba y plena = PR (although you added this) bomba y plena is not in Reggaeton. Goto to PR put them all together and give it a new name. Reggaeton is born.
@loveangel71 Reggaetons is made by Panamians .. EL General was the king of reggaeton made it popular, and the puerto ricans like usual hijack it to sell it to Latinos in USA. The Jamaicans made reggaeton when they were working on the Panama Canal. Go do research on Reggaeton!
@SUPERIORcarbonL1L2L3 Maybe this will shed some light as to what I am trying to explain to you...goto Assata Shakure Forum and lookup the post "People of Color, the truth". It might enlighten you.
It is like this. If a jewish-american from Russia migrates to New York and invented a vaccine, it will be an american invention, no matter where he come from; or nationality . Inventions are based on the geographical location that creates them. Of course the Jewish part is there; no one is disputing it. You see, the Puerto Ricans claim Salsa create by them. This is the main issue. They brand them so that they dont have to say the words Cuban Music, because of political and commercial concern.
@loveangel71 Site this article. Plus, have you really read this paragraph?? It's talking about the "essence" of Reggaeton not history. Geez, learn how to read.
@loveangel71 yes, reggaeton is so important to the world that there is a vast conspiracy to change it's history. (rolling eyes). I have provided proof and you have provided nothing. This conversation is over.
@loveangel71 See, your not making any sense. Now your saying PR uses another beat. Can this be called Reggaeton or is PR going to call it a different name like "Ricanton" and then in the dictionary it will say "Ricanton" has it's roots in Reggaeton. Do you understand what I am saying. Den bow is the core of Reggaeton, if you don't use Den bow then you can't call it Reggaeton anymore. But it's not anything new. It's just an evolution of a genre that PR did not invent.
