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Loved this video, can you do a video for the BMW M5 as well? would love to see the history on it and know more about its current S63 V8 and its previous engines like the V10
Having owned a S54, tuned N54 and a tuned S55, I’d take the S65. The B58 existed before the Supra and I’d bet Toyota had much less input in the engine then stated here.
I am almost 99% sure that toyota's only design input was a small change on the timing chain design. Good thing they did, too, as the b48 is the same engine with 2 cylinders cut off, and uses the timing system from bmw instead. b48's got issues out the ass with the bmw timing chain assembly, which the b58 does not. Some argue this is due to the balance, or some other factor, but I believe toyota knows some mythical secrets about timing chain setup....
Toyota had no hand in the design of the engine. They came to my plant in hams hall. To see how the b48 and b58 engines are built and to see if it meets all new iso standards as not many engines from other companies are. Its from simple things like work flow and right first time when machining parts. To success in right first time completed engines. It just means bmw have high quality. They would also look at reliability data from the test cells of the plant where we hammer and stress the engine to the maximum to see just how much it can take. Sometimes engine are ran for days on end with changing rpm values.
S65 hands down I test drive one and it’s a car that will leave a smile on my face it’s a perfect amount of power to have fun. If you ever get a chance to drive one once take it. You won’t regret it
Idk if I drove the wrong one.. I bought a f30 328 not knowing anything by about cars saw a sports mode got into cars did some research learned of a m3 test drove the the v8 NA and was absolutely disappointed on paper 414 hp 298 torque I thought it was gonna be moving absolutely not sounds fun looks good but not the car to go fast also it died during the test drive on me lol but nonetheless if done right seems like it could be a fun car
@@Jakejacobsonn 298 torque, you just said it. Rev it out next time, it’s not like a turbo car with high torque at low rpm. This is a Motorsport engine designed for precise throttle response and linear power & torque all the way to redline, unlike a small turbo engine which provide a strong initial shove then torque tapers off.
I’ve owned 3 generation’s of M3’s, a e36, an e46, and an e90. I would say all three had things that could and would go wrong. That being said, the e36 was the most reliable but also didn’t really feel “special” in any way, shape or form. The e46 was the most expensive to own, I had to do the subframe, Vanos, and rod bearings to mention the routine valve adjustment every 12-15k. The e90 was amazing as well, I did throttle body actuators and rod bearings but both were as preventative maintenance things. All in all, I would say the e46 was and still is my favorite! Perfectly balanced with just the right amount of power to match the handling and breaking. It was just so damn unreliable!
Mate it's my dream car! Amazing v8! Here cost around 35-45.000€ unfortunately I can't buy it because its costs and taxes are too much for my income. maybe one day I can! Now I have a toyota corolla Tsport with 2zzge 200hp 1.800cc.😁
@@DimoS...Keep grinding, Sir. I've been where you're at but now I own an E92. If I can buy my attainable dream car, you can as well. It just takes time. Keep getting up in the morning and it will happen. I hope you have a great day, Friend.
I've currently got an F82 with the S55. One thing I love about it is how refined and sporty it is. Its like no other car i've drove. It absolutely makes you in charge. Its so customizable and versatile, not to mention, pretty easy to work on (for an M motor). This is not me saying its the best M-Motor to ever exist but it is actually incredibly reliable and never gives up. Its got a ton of cardio. It begs to be floored.
0:00 intro 0:45 s14 e30 3:56 s50 e36 6:21 s54 e46 9:08 s65 e9x 11:35 s55 f80 14:17 s58 g80 (paste these times in the description so video chapters get created)
I have a 2011 M3 I agree. Previous and future generations are probably more desirable by enthusiasts but that sound and power delivery unmistakable. I’m just a random dude so I will never sale mine.
@@SDG-cv4br Team 2011 M3 ftw! It's still just the most fun I've ever had on 4 wheels and I can't see ever parting with it. Mine's 109k (finally broken in!) and just had it into the dealer because the oil's gotten too expensive to make it worth doing myself anymore. Every head absolutely turns when it rumbles up doing nothing but idling (although she constantly begs you to redline her). Nothing against the other M's, but S65 is my perfect fit.
I have a 2011 m3 with a competition package that is in mint condition and I think it's the most amazing car ever. This is my 4th BMW and, by far, the best!
Just have the rod bearings changed? What's the big deal? I mean, a car collection isn't cheap LoL! I've got a BMW shop close to me anyway. I hope you have a great day Friend. Enjoy whatever you drive.
The american S50 wasn't just a slight detuned engine. It was a completely diferent one. The head its totally diferent. I was fortunate enough to own a e36 euro M3 3.0 and that engine is epic. 86x86 square setup it just keeps on giving.
Great walkthrough except the US S50 and S52 are not detuned euro motors. They are tuned up versions of the M50 and M52 found in the 325i and 328i respectively.
S65 is the best imo. E9x generation has the perfect mix of just enough technology to feel modern, but raw enough to still have some DNA from its predecessors.
Exactly! I just bought an 08. There’s just no way I’m driving around in an old car like the e46. It’s interior is just too archaic and so is the exterior. My 08 e92 with the ceramic white and black cf roof shits all over 99% of the cars on the road including the newer 3 series as well. The black interior on e92 is ass actually but when you make it fox red, the b/r contrast just takes it to another level. Truly a marvel. Every e9x owner should get a contrasting paint or else the old leather really shows. Everyone I know is flabbergasted when I tell them it’s an 08. Phew what a beast.
Well said! The exact thing I've been saying for years. 2006ish - 2013ish were the absolute best years for drivers cars. I'm still rocking the Mk5 GTI as my daily and an E92 ///M3 for special occasions LoL. Both 2008 by coincidence. Have a great day, Friends.
Great video. There have been some fantastic turbocharged engines down the years but for noise and throttle response you can't beat a high revving naturally aspirated engine and BMW have produced some brilliant ones.
My favourite M car is definitely the E46. That why I own one! I’ve driven all but the E30 (way out of my price range anyway). The E46 is the perfect car, old school but still modern, 50-50 weight balance, light, the perfect amount of power, instant throttle response, very linear powerband and a very unique sound. But I have to admit, I almost bought the 92, purely for that GLORIOUS sound. But the 10 year old kid with the photo of the E46 CSL on the wall came through. 21 years old, own my dream car. I am blessed.
E92 is my attainable dream car and I'm fortunate enough to own one. E46 is a wonderful choice and if it weren't for the V8, E46 it would have been. Congratulations on owning your dream car. I know that it's a wonderful feeling. Enjoy your day Friend. I hope it's a great one.
@@AverageBeausOutdoor they are both amazing cars and you can’t go wrong with either. All down to what you prefer! It’s an incredible feeling isn’t it! I hope you enjoy your E92 the same way I enjoy mine!
S54 all day long, I've driven the B58 and S58, it makes such great power and is very smooth, but it lacks so much character, over-engineered in the wrong sense. The S65 would be my favorite if not for all of the complications of developing a bespoke engine derived from another fairly bespoke engine and the reliability issues it suffers even with good maintenance. I finally reached my goal and bought an E46 M3 with the S54 and it just puts a smile on my face to drive. There's a reason BMW sold over 85,000 of them!
The S54 is my favourite engine of them all. But about the B58 you mentioned,Toyota had nothing to do with it's developement. It's an 100% BMW engine. And of course continue your good work!
@@borla4491 Toyota had no hand in the development. They simply used the existing, lower power version that was already in use by bmw since 2015 in 40i cars.
@@Cee_M3 The B58 in the Supra is NOT the same as the ones that are in BMWs. There are three different types of B58s, the one in the Supra is not the 1st generation B58.
@@borla4491 Its still a B58. And the one in the Supra is not unique. The 2020 Supra used a B58C/B58M1, same as in 840i BMWs introduced in 2018. 2021+ Supras use the identical B58D (TU), which were in 40i BMWs since 2019 & 2020 depending on model, and LCI. Don't get me wrong, Toyota can build great engines on their own (with the help of Yamaha) but the B58 is not one of them. Im a Toyota fan from the 90s. I had several Supras and Celicas, while Im now looking to add an SW20 MR2 to that list. Im definitely not hating on Toyota, their history, and their capability to still engineer and build excellent cars. (LFA against anybody. GR Yaris & Corolla) For me, the credit goes where its due. Toyota tuned the Supra their way, but the B58 credit goes to bmw, just like the GR86 Flat 4 is all Subaru. Maybe thats why Im more interested in the new Z.
Having owned the S14, S50, S54 and S65, the 65 wins hands down. It's worthy of the Metzger GT3 flat 6. Amazing engine. Worth changing the rod bearings every 100.000Km !
s65 is everything the s54 is but insanely better lol, higher redline, more cylinders, more power, more throttle bodies, better sound no rasp. Both are great engines but when you have a choice the answer is clear.
@@mxnny_r5002 s65 has more throttle bodies than a s54.... s65 both in my opinion and factually has a better intake sound!!! Again both engines have crazyyyyy characteristics which make them both so good!
@@ibefast it’s got nothing to do with how many throttle bodies, it just has a better sound. Regardless it’s not factual this shits all opinion based so it’s whatever you like
For me inline six that's what I wanted . The S50B30 engine M3 is my favourite , lest issue and easy to maintain it . How ever big power engine M3 that over 300 horses doesn't impress me , what I want is enjoy the ride and easy to drive .
S55, S65 for me. I love the look for both of those generations. I quite like the S58 also, there is so much potential with tuning, it's getting crazy, & the grill on the car itself is pretty good looking seeing it first hand.
I had an 04 m3. I sold it in 2017 and bought a 2011 335is. The N54 is the most satisfying sounding and feeling engine I've ever drove. I have full bolt-ons and a stage 2 tune on. Plenty of torque low down and doesn't die off until about 6800 rpms. Loved my e46 but it felt like you didn't have any power under 5k rpm. I'm wanting to buy either a 98 328is 5spd or an 04 330ci ZHP soon if any of you guys are selling lol.
such a good video, so glad you made this, you make some of the best BMW videos, all factual & detailed information unlike most RU-vid’s that try and do these videos
Great video man, very informative and easy to watch! I will say that a couple main difference about the n55 vs my engine is that the s55 has ITBs (independent throttle bodies), two sets of turbos instead of a scroll, and the aluminum bits that make the engine lighter over all. It also possesses a lighter carbon fiber driveshaft to the n55s regular one, and a lighter magnesium crankshaft over the n55s. Overall its a stripped down/built n55 with two sets of turbos which is why the s55 f87 m2s are much more sought after than the n55 equipped models. Looking forward to more vids
The S55 does not have ITBs. The last BMW M engine to have ITBs from the factory was the S65 and ITBs were a common trait shared across most naturally aspired BMW M engines of yore.
@@e90m3lci Curious, I was led to believe even the m4 had ITBs. I cant find any proof that the s55 only used valvetronics except for a wiki article and a youtube vid online which didnt even state that it doesnt have it....Do you have more solid proof? Technically speaking valvetronic takes care of the throttle body business on modern BMW engines, since air flow to each cylinder is controlled by the valve lift on each cylinder. But its not as good a system as ITBs and I would be bummed if that is actually true. But my original point was that the n55 has a far less sophisticated version of this system than the m4 has, in either case. While they share similar components the motors behave night and day different.
I'd love to drive the s65 so I could compare the feel to the s54. Currently, the s54 is my favorite but I'd say I'm a bit biased as that's what I own. I also wish to drive the euro e36 M3 to compare to the s54. I bet it's closer in performance (stock vs stock) than most e46 M3 owners would like to admit; weight difference being a key factor there.
S52 ftw!!! but then I am biased.Reliable and sounds great.Yes, I know it's not as fancy as the S54 but no spun bearings and best off all none of that metallic nastiness that is the sound of the S54. I've raced quite a few S54 powered M3s and other M coupe's and my mildly modded S52 is their equal up to about 120-140 kph. Anyhoo...Go S52!!!
S14 because that was derived of the most legendary engine BMW ever made, and that is the most powerful engine ever made. The predecessor of the s14 a 1500cc version used in the formula one and made almost 1500hp with a big turbo that is :-) Perhaps you should make a video of the bmw m10 and all its versions. Because what bmw is today started with that engine. Cheers
Have never owned an M3 but driven a few. A coworker had a mid 90s car with the SMG single clutch automated manual. Trans was better than I expected, torque was good, HP was lacking but not a problem unless you wanted 10/10ths performance. I worked for a component supplier to the 7-spd DCT paired with the 2008 S65 V8. Got to drive a German spec car on an unlimited section of the Autobahn! Reached 240 Km/h (150 mph) in 5th gear before having to back off for slower traffic. My German colleagues claimed the car would hit 300 Km/h if given enough empty road! If I were shopping for one today in the USA, it would be an S54 drop top.
S58 if you want insane Power S55 if you want power on a budget S65 if you want sound and speed doesn’t really matter. I’ve owned all of the above and so far… S65 is the only one sitting in my garage ATM. Will buy another F82 soon though. M4 GTS are cool cars.
I just want to say that I think your information on the S50 is a bit off. We didn’t get a Detuned S50B30- we got the S50B30US The S50B30US later became the S52 The S50B30 (euro) later became the S50B32 The S50B30 and the M50 actually have very little in common and are almost completely different engines - I.e. the heads cannot be swapped, or cranks/rods/pistons/ and an adapter plate is needed to fit the ITBs The S50B30US is actually a bored stroked and cammed M50B25 henece going from 2.5L to 3.0L The s52 is a bored stroked and cammed M52 hence going from 2.8L to 3.2 The Euro S50 (S50B30) actually shares more in common with the S14, it has solid cam followers (lifters) ITBs and 140mm rods compared to 135mm in the S5X US motors which allowed it to rev to 8,000rpm while the US motors rev only to 7,000 Not trying to harp on you- I just see lots of misinformation out there and I have a 1995 M3 with the S50B30US so I felt inclined to share my perspective
S65 V-8 is the winner. Peak N/A power, instantaneous throttle response and magical high rpm sound. The ultimate M3 to me would have the lighter, shorter and more powerful S65 V-8 in the E46 M3 CSL with a manual instead of the S54 inline 6. BMW knew that, as they ran E46 race cars with the 4.0L V-8 in the IMSA series and won the class for that one year until the series kicked them out for not making a real production version of it. It wasn't until BMW produced new racing cars based on the E92 & V-8 that they became dominant again in IMSA racing
I think the us spec s52b32/b30 gets a bad rap. Yes it don’t get the added power of the euro motors. But it also doesn’t get the added unreliability, or more specifically added maintenance. The us motors only have single vanos rather than dual, the rod bearings are not super tight so they don’t need to be replaced like most m engines, s54 still had the rod bearing replacement requirements. The s52 is just a simpler more reliable engine. Mine has 165,000 miles and is used exclusively at the track. It makes 240 whp and doesn’t skip a beat. Also e36 is a great bargain for a track car. Super reliable, easy handling, just a great front engine rear wheel drive car to put tons of track miles without a lot of maintenance.
The American M3 E36 engine was a rebuild of the M52 engine and wasn't called S50, that was the real European engine but it was called S52 as a remake of M52 found in the 328i E36.
The S65 represents the artistry of developing a sky high revving, high strung, ITB equipped, competition derived, bespoke power unit. The newer turbo M motors are great and are more powerful but are nowhere near as special or as costly to develop as the S65. The last true M Motor developed by BMW Motorsport!
So I have an E4 six 325I but I want to change the engine out for one of the sport engines. Anybody have any recommendations I would like to keep it in BMW engine.
The S65 engine in my E92 is simply intoxicating and amazing . Are all the other engines amazing ? Yea they are. The E46 is wonderful but there is no substitute for a V8. That being said I had an E36 and I never understood the US and Euro version difference
Having owned an e46 m3 and now owning a manual e90 m3 and F82 M4 comp all I can say is I’m an N/A guy. High revving matched with a raw sensation. The M4 is badass in its own right but I have no connection with it.
