Thats happened a few times ..... The Renault 5 Renault's best selling car of the 70's was designed by a young apprentice in his lunch breaks as a hobby was basically a re skinned renault 4 . Bosses saw it and put it into production.
The double arrow, despite the slander, is proven to be an instant classic, because other national railways around Europe and the rest of the world took cues from the BR logo's "arrow" concept
@@gentuxable To be honest I don't know the order in which they were designed. At the 50th anniversary of the logo and the "yellow" trains there was an exhibition on the history and design of the NS logo, there are several interesting videos on YT about that exhibition.
I particularly like how it took someone that wasn't a designer - and ultimately someone who the design would directly affect, the general public - to create something so influential. That plus the original Rail Alphabet was a brilliant combination in brand identity
Rail Alphabet - designed by Jock Kinneir and Margaret Calvert - the same people behind the Transport typeface seen on road signs across the UK, with a similar design philosophy, but intended to be visible to pedestrians rather than motorists. There are also a couple of spin-offs: * New Rail Alphabet, a digitised version created in 2009 by Henrik Kubel of A2/SW/HK in close collaboration with Margaret Calvert, which features six weights: off white, white, light, medium, bold and black, with non-aligning numerals, corresponding italics and a set of Eastern European characters. * Rail Alphabet 2, commissioned by Network Rail in 2020, and designed by Margaret Calvert and Henrik Kubel (so, basically, a variation of their earlier New Rail Alphabet). This version includes lighter versions of the lettering as well as italics for signage along with accompanying versions for use in printed matter and online. The redesign also includes new pictograms to depict services and facilities which did not exist in the 1960s when the original typeface was conceived - such as gender neutral toilets and vaping areas. NR initially announced it would be introduced at all stations they manage, replacing Brunel, as well as in corporate communications, but that ambition has subsequently grown, as GBR will use it as their corporate signage, replacing the patchwork of post-privatisation fonts.
For whatever problems the Tube and the Rail have, the roundel and the double arrow are instantly recognisable symbols. They are marvels of simple but effective design.
As many of you know, my long career has been in the railway industry. When I first saw the BR logo in the mid 1980s during my first visit to the UK, it reminded me of a typical railway interlocking, with a crossover and switch points connecting the two tracks, in addition to arrows showing the directions trains move in the UK, for the most part left-hand running.
Most crossovers are trailing anyway, so it's even representative technically! If you cut the sidings off it turns into something much more like a fascist symbol, so lets hope nobody tries to rationalise it...
My father was deputy company secretary of British Rail in the 1980s when BR started to reuse the "ferret and dartboard" on some trains, including some in Scotland. The BRB received a letter written in Gaelic clearly about it. Someone passed it to Dad who returned it to sender asking for it to be written in English. It turned out to be a complaint from the Office of Lord Lyon King of Arms (senior herald in Scotland) saying they could not use it in Scotland as it was heraldic and he had not approved it. The reason this was passed to Dad was that he was a lawyer, educated in Scotland and an expert on heraldry. Dad pointed out that the badge had been used many years earlier and quoted the section of Scottish Law which basically meant - too late to complain. They did not write back. After retiring, Dad worked part time at the College of Arms for the Clarenceaux King of Arms as a researcher.
@@LancashireLass And the Calvert font of the Tyne and Wear metro totems... though I'm not such a fan of that font for way-finding signs. The BR font does it's job so well you don't even notice it.
As US college students in 1970, my roommate and I spent two weeks in Britain and Scotland, travelling almost everywhere by train (We were too young to rent a car, and intimidated by driving on the opposite side of the road. Also too impecunious.). The BR symbol represented fast, (mostly) comfortable and cheap transport that could take us almost anywhere. For us its design epitomized the modern and forward-looking Great Britain of Twiggy, the Beatles, Mary Quant and the like. As did the iconic map of London's Underground, a copy of which I kept as a wall decoration for almost 20 years. For those snickering or guffawing at the romantic ideas we ascribed to British Rail, remember the state of US railroads in the '70s!
I’ve read a description of the old BR lion and wheel logo as “cat on a mangle”. Without the politics around the double arrow, it is very effective as a symbol. Instantly recognizable, clean lined, and unambiguous, all things you want in congested urban spaces where there is a lot to visually absorb and differentiate.
Although the Conservatives were against nationalisation, Winston Churchill was personally supportive. WW1 showed how inefficient it was having so many separate companies and there were very serious supporters of full nationalisation in 1918, Churchill and David Lloyd George being among them. The Ways and Communications Bill of 1919 actually included powers of State purchase, but Andrew Bonar Law opposed it and it was dropped from the Bill. The 1923 grouping was a compromise. The 1919 Bill would have included nationalisation of the Metropolitan Railway and UERL, so it's possible something like the London Passenger Transport Board could have happened a decade earlier.
Attlee's nationalisation of nearly 20% of the UK economy nearly bankrupted the country, and left no money available for the investment those industries desperately needed. Having said that, rail was on its knees after WWII and it's doubtful it could have continued as a private enterprise.
@@DrFod He left office with the country completely free from debt, unemployment and built thousands of houses. Plus an NHS service that was the envy of the world. All on a post war budget.
@@Redf322whatever he did, it wasn’t ’free of debt’, as the the national accounts well show. Or indeed Wikipedia, en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_British_national_debt
@@DrFodwhat metric are you using to say he bankrupted the country? After the war the new labour government reduced the debt to gdp ratio by a good third, and interest payments fell, while injecting huge amount of reconstruction funds. There’s no way in which you can characterise the British state as more bankrupt in ‘51 than ‘45
Designing the signs for Gatwick Airport in the 1950s was the first project for Margaret Calvert and Jock Kinneir. Yellow/black airport signs and use of pictograms, now used worldwide She later designed Rail Alphabet used by BR. I think the arrows of indecision is the only thing she didn't design!
Also reminiscent of gender symbols in biology, and now in more general use with unisex extensions. So could have been a mixed message! The double arrow is more distinctive.
My personal favourite is the totem. There's a reason people love to collect the station signs. It's a timeless design, and it would have looked amazing on locomotives, too.
The Hot Dog works and it's a fine logo, but it doesn't say "railroad." The basic shape could be used for anything. I wouldn't mind it being revived and put on new railway things, though.
Some of our rail replacement buses have it on their digital blinds. Even if you don't read English, you know what the bus is there for. I much approve. Others of our buses have a picture that is supposed to look like someone standing on a platform, by a train. To me it looks like a set of gallows that are... in use. Which probably describes how the passengers are feeling. We won't talk about the blind that says "Choo Choo" in case I might swear. I think the Double Arrow is a perfect symbol. I always thought that it showed the double track for up and down, but also a sort of electric spark to suggest the electrification of the modern railway. It would be a sad day to lose it. Especially if it were superseded by the Hangman's Despair.
There's something mesmerising about the symbol, you immediately know what it means, it's classic but futuristic at the same time. Thanks Jago, that was fascinating railway history. 😊
I, from Michigan in the USA (the automobile capital of the world, at least it was) have known what this symbol meant from even my very earliest years, long before I cared even remotely about trains. Yes, that logo is absolutely iconic. I had always wondered where it came from, so great video!
That's weird I was thinking about that exact same advert, while I was watching this vid, came down her ego comment about something else and saw your remark!
My Dad was a railwayman and one of the books that fascinated me as a child and I've kept hold of is a 1986 book, British Rail Design, done in conjunction with the Danish Design Council. It goes through the whole brand identity they'd developed - from the station signs & departure boards to the new Red Star Parcels brand, via the refreshment carts and the new seats being used in the Mk IV coaches. Well worth a read if you can find it
One thing to mention, the only Steam engines to have ever been given the British Rail symbol, were the locos of the Vale of Rheidol Railway till the sale to the private sector of 88, so in a way, BR steam OFFICIALLY ended with them.
I recall in Technical/Engineering Drawing 'O' Level having this, and the British Airways "Speedbird" designs as some of our first introductions to the "art" of technical design. One of the most fascinating aspects I noted back then is how the ends of the arrow heads are just a little bit larger than at their bases, connected to the parallel lines. It's almost impossible to spot, but it makes the extenfed up and down diagonals spread slightly toward their tips, which adds a tiny bit of "energy" in some sense to the design. Anyway, as an autistic child with nerd tendencies, armed with a ruler and felt tips, I then proceeded to cover my bedroom walls in multitudes of examples of the Double Arrow, the Speedbird and additionally the logo for the Cray X-MP supercomputer, and the title for the film Close Encounters of The Third Kind ... I expect the latter two were partly due to a sudden love of rounded squishy typefaces :) And as someone below also said, all over my school exercise books... tho in the mid 80s this [and I still have most of my exercise books to bear witness to this migration] was usurped by the Frankie Goes to Hollywood logo... because basically, typefaces aside, it seemed that I ultimately just liked logos with interesting pointy angles - but the BR logo is where it likely started :)
Truly iconic logo and almost the perfect example. Still triggers the same small bump in my heart rate as it did in my childhood. It still brings about a hope of travelling on a train, or even just seeing one. I see it every day on my keyring.
You have corrected a misunderstanding I had about the double arrow logo. I was convinced that the logo had been designed and initially used specifically for electrified rail. The zigzag additionally representing a spark. Only later being rolled out across the rest of the BR system because it had been successful in that role. Maybe I thought that because my earliest years of rail travel were mostly on the Waterloo-Bournemouth line which was, at the time, being electrified. And the Waterloo-Portsmouth line which had long been electrified.
I remember being pleased when I realised the logo was correct in showing that trains in the UK, like the cars on its roads, drive on the left. (As do the trains in France, incidentally.)
The BR Corporate Identity Manual and all that stemmed from it represent some of the finest consistent and cohesive branding… ever. Love this historical context for the Double Arrow and Rail Alphabet - design classics indeed! Great video as always, Jago!
I’ve always imagined (I’m 48 and live in UK) the BR logo representing the interlinked lines meeting and signifying a networked rail system. So I learned something today that it is two arrows passing… goes to show how different people interpret visuals in their own way. Fascinating video, thanks!
The lion in the first design looked emaciated, so it was sometimes called the Starving Lion. Given that Britain still had rationing at the time, it was probably not inappropriate.
As a child I uses to draw the symbol on all my school books etc. I loved trains (still do) so I drew many locomotives over the years, so I feel I have a real nostalgic affinity with the BR logo. Interestingly (or not), I always thought the symbol represented tracks and sets of points rather than two arrows. Thanks, I really enjoyed the video (as always!)
I'm surprised you didn't mention that the cycling lion always faced forwards on locos. They tried to do this with the ferret and dartboard, but because it was an official heraldic design and they'd only submitted the left-facing one, they were told they couldn't do right-facing ones (yet still some locos had right-facing ones, at least for a time). This wasn't an issue with diesels, as there wasn't a specific "forwards". The double arrows always appeared with the top arrow facing right, except for Sealink ships, where the top arrow faced the direction of the bow of the ship (aka "forwards", as per the earlier designs).
This reminds me of the US military rule, "The flag is never in retreat." They have it mirrored on the right side of vehicles. Some other countries with asymmetrical flags have the same rule, but not all.
Glasgow electrification sign brought back memories I forgot I had. I was 6 and I remembered getting on an electric train for the first time and being able to look out the front of the Blue train. I have been hooked ever since.
The odd thing is, the BR logo I remember from my childhood is none of those you cover (it was more 'heraldic'/old-fashioned). I'm starting to wonder if I've made it up! Another odd thing that just occurs to me is that, although the double arrow sign is now nearly universally used to mean 'railway station' - and not just in Britain - the 'standard' road sign for 'train' is still a cartoon depiction of a steam engine, including smoke! And yet you have to be well over 60 to have any memory of regular steam-hauled train services. A child born in the 21st century, who may never have seen a steam engine, sees that sign and knows it means 'level crossing' - despite it looking radically unlike any train that child has ever seen!
The steam train on the roadsigns is the same reason that the road traffic camera is a box camera with bellows on the front - despite that camera design not being in use for 100 years or more. Its because its instantly recognisable as to what it is. A simplified drawn version of a DMU or loco we use today would basically be a box with wheels - looking like a bus or a coach or a truck or a train or a mobile library. The steam train (and the box camera with bellows) is totally on purpose to remove any confusion. Its train, and always will be in the eyes of anyone whos looked at a kids book involving trains!
@@jameshodgetts7541 good point, but I'm not convinced about the camera. Despite my scepticism about the train sign, I will accept that the majority of kids know what a steam engine looks like. But who on earth sees the old camera with bellows and thinks "ah ha, camera!". I'm 70 and I've never seen one of those cameras outside a museum. My grandkids have probably never even seen a 'proper' camera in real life - they both have phones, to them a camera is an app!
@@WyvernYT I'm not sure they even know what a disc is! Everything just magically uses the 'cloud' now. I reminded them that they should periodically back up their phones and they looked at me as if I was even more senile than I am!
This is an interesting and educational clip. The challenge with logos (British Rail, swastika, Mercedes star) versues wordmarques (Boots, Beatles, Rolls-Royce) is that the former is more likely to require more encounters with and a greater understanding of its meaning before it becomes lodged in one's long term memory. Without frequent encounters one might forget what the logo stands for. With wordmarques there is no need to struggle with identifying who it represents, thus making it easier to associate values with it. They both have their strengths, though uniqueness and simplicity of design coupled with a concise and engaging strapline/proposition determine their effectiveness.
The "Double Arrow" which represents two trains passing each other on a double track railway is registered to the DOP though used by BR is still used today. National Rail stations can use it but privatised TOC can not hence why you don't see it on trains anymore.
Quite a fitting video as I was at the Didcot Railway Centre this week and spent a long time admiring the imagery on the engines. I always thought the BR symbol represented a set of track points.
That was a great presentation. I always wondered about the symbol as no matter where you go in some strange town that sign points to a railway station.
As much as i love classical architecture and style there’s something about mid-century modern when it comes to logos that just makes sense the Double Arrow and the Hot Dog come to mind. Greetings from the States.
I'm old enough to remember the logo being introduced. British Rail adverts ended with the two halves of the logo (top and bottom) joining up to the sound of a two-tone locomotive horn. "Let the train take the strain" (If one arrives on time, or at all).
Also known as the Oozlu Bird in BR Because: The oozlum bird is a mythical bird in Australian and British folktales. When startled, it takes off and flies in ever-decreasing circles until it flies up its own backside, finally disappearing completely. It was used with the blue loco livery on The Vale of Rheidol narrow gauge locos, which was just so wierd to see
Even though I’ve never lived in the UK, I love the BR logo. It’s ionic, simple, and honestly somewhat perfect for what it does. With GBR taking over the railways, it’s nice to see this logo remain relevant and important into the future. Here in Canada we also have some very iconic railway logos. The CN “snake” is probably the best example, having been introduced in the 1960s, CN continues to use this logo even to this day. There’s also the GO Transit logo, designed by the same firm that made the CN logo. This logo is iconic to anyone who lives in Southern Ontario and is used in a manner quite similar to the BR logo. VIA Rail also has an iconic logo too.
It’s not just iconic in Britain though, I was stunned to see it used as the logo as an interchange to rail services… on the Chongqing Metro! I even joked at the time that Chongqing was so ambitious that it was planning to connect its metro to the British Rail system haha
As a kid in the 1980s I remember seeing a great use of the BR logo to advertise that you could get a train from Victoria to Gatwick. The top arrow was detached and slanting upwards like a plane taking off. It's catchphrase was "Catch the train and you've caught the plane."
Simple, striking, effective, like the Underground/LT roundel. Thankfully despite the constant rebranding and new logos in so many areas, those in charge have appreciated it and resisted the temptation to meddle. Nationwide take note. Amusingly the arrows sometimes got reversed to give "wrong direction" running; the left hand side of Sealink ferry funnels was an example of this.
The British Rail double arrow and the Canadian National Railways' "wet noodle" are some of my favourite logos of all time! The 1960s really was a golden age for graphic design on the railways
Ashington, Northumberland just had its double arrow sign installed yesterday at it's soon to be reopening Blyth and Tyne line. One of Beachings cuts...
A neat stylistic feature is that the upper and lower 'tails' actually flare outwards slightly. This is to correct perspective when viewed from the side, preventing them from seemingly shrinking as they reach the tips.
The 'Double Arrow' logo was instrumental in starting my design career 27 years ago, as was the Jordan 'Jumpman' logo and a local rock band 'Freeway Limit' (whom my uncle was lead singer and bassist). Thanks for this video, really enjoyed it. Lee
That was a fascinating delve into history. Being of mature years I was an avid trainspotter as a lad and find it curious how change occurs but is often unnoticed. The older designs were definitely more classic, I do feel simplistic often devalues a product but have to agree the roundel, double arrows and the 'tick' are all immediately recognisable.
I worked at DRU as a designer a few years before it was absorbed into another company. It was a very small outfit by that time and mostly was comprised of architects. Much of the work (design and architecture) was for railway/underground stations both in Britain and abroad.
The full slogan was "You are approaching the Strong country" - advertising Strongs' Brewery based in Romsey, Hampshire. There were a few of them but the most remembered is the one before Winchester on the Waterloo-Southampton main line.
Our wedding theme in 2016 was "The Golden Age of Travel" and cardboard cut outs of our guests' names were presented in the 'hot dog' and were fixed onto an elongated bulldog clip pole which were less successfully mounted into a Ferrero Rocher! They kind of melted a bit...
I actually attended the exhibition in London of the council of industrial design in 1964 showing the new corporate liveries and designs. I was 13 at the time!
I just realised this logo has been everywhere my whole life and I've never like consciously thought about, it just exists in my head as "railway" lol it really is iconic, I'll be sure to look at it next time I catch a train
I used to live in Keighley - a small town in West Yorkshire (and the West Riding of Yorkshire). When I had first went on the platforms, I was quite confused on why this weird “hotdog” logo had featured adjacent to me. But turns out, it was one of the termini of the Keighley and Worth Valley Railway - the first heritage railway I’d ride on!
This has to be THE classic uk logo. With Margaret Calvert and Jock Kinners' typeface, it is exactly how to create a great brand. Such a shame we don't do it properly now. Although Jagos logo is memorable😊
No, it's a textbook example of how to destroy a brand. The ugliest logo and ugliest typeface in public life. The Cycling Lion and Gill Sans were much better.
Watching to your videos and listening to your voice is the most Zen thing that anyone can do after a hard day. I am not even a train buff, but I do like quality. Well done Jago.
The uniformity of british signs always makes me happy. In London you can always distinguish the National Rail from the Underground from buses from the overground from the DLR even at a distance. One of the things that Britain has actually done really well!
The logo first came to my attention and made sense to me when it was used in the TV ads for Intercity as the two arrows joined with the sound of a train's hooter.... "hurr-harr", something I'd expected to pop up in this video. But it's a great video on how design can be so powerful in cementing a concept and unifying disperate elements. Cheers mate!
This was amazing, being a young lad who loved the railway (Having the line running to Wimbledon outside my window) I somehow knew nothing of the history of this symbol. This was like the anticipation felt watching Terminator 2 for the first time!🤠
I have a badge with the "Ferret and Dartboard" logo on it and have met two older French men who instantly recognised it with nostalgia. One because his dad worked for the SNCF and they used to get a special ticket from/via the SNCF which was recognised by BR for travel around the UK so took all their holidays on BR trains. (I forgot what the other guy said, sorry).
Superb logo. Absolute timeless. Sydney public transport (until it was mostly gutted by privatisation) had a similar logo. It was colloquially called the L7. Wags said it was an abbreviation of Late, 7 days a week 😂.
A timeless design classic. Some great railway footage on this video and I love all the very young faces peering out of the windows of the blue/grey DEMU thumper unit toward the end of this video. I think a steam loco at the Vale of Rheidol should be painted into rail blue with the white double arrow. Perhaps even a standard gauge steam loco should be done as well as in another universe, the Modernisation Plan was different and steam survived into the early 1980s....
