SPOILERS FOR VOLUME 8 FINALE How could Jacques ending be better? Follow Me! ►Twitter: / eruptionfang ►Twitch: / eruptionfang ►Instagram: / eruptionfang
“How can a writer hate their own character? It’s their baby. How can they hate what they gave life? Embrace all your creations, especially the bad people. They deserve love like everyone else.” - Story by Robert McKee on Character
It’s bizarre that we never got a single scene with him and willow. Also, to get on another mha rant, Endeavor’s arc is great because what he did is unforgivable and his family will likely never forgive him. He’s redeemed but he has admitted what he did to the world. The Schnees are one of the biggest missed opportunities in the show. I’ve never been abused or seen abuse, and it’s always reprehensible. But I’m getting tired of the trope that abuser are mustache twirling villains.
True, early It sort if portray as something complex. Weiss said how family, friend, and workers would get kidnape by the White Fang, and how they were never seen again. This was implied to the reason why Weiss was cold, it could have been used to explain why the Scnee family are all cold. Also remember he himself went to Vale to pick up his daughter after Vale fell to Grimm, if he didn't care he would not risk his own life to get her. Also I think he was shafted because Rooster Teeth turn him into a Trump analogy, so after that they didn't care or need him anymore because they don’t see him as having any good quality.
Jacques was one of the only characters left to carry on the Faunas Rights plotline, was directly tied in as an antagonist to Weiss AND Blake, and had no interest in ceasing his company's exploitation of Faunas. So of course he, like Sienna, gets killed off by *a different* antagonist to wrap up any potential interesting threads without even considering what happens next. This fucking show.
It is literally the only thing the main plot has going for it. The Gods are gonna blow up the planet if everyone can't get along when the four relics are collected, and the Human/Faunas racism plot is the only major conflict the worldbuilding has established. This is the core of the fucking story, get over it.
@@JacksonJinn yeah it's not like it's been explicitly established that Atlas was framed for the attack on Beacon and every other kingdom on the planet hates them or something, and they're now refugees who have to rely on the people who hate them Oh wait
Imagine if Jacques was able to break Ironwood out of his degrading mindset in time for the final battle. Having been stuck in the cell all volume, he could've acknowledged Qrow and Robyn's comradery and have been reminded of his kids and their bond. It would then help him see their perspective on how he kept them locked up for a lot of their lives. Then, when Ironwood wakes up, Jacques takes the time to tell Ironwood what he's learned, and with James thinking more clearly after his previous fight, he'd start focusing on helping and even breaks Jacques out without killing him. Ironwood goes on to be a key part of the fight against Cinder as the others fall, potentially sacrificing himself for Winter, and Jacques reunites with his family, having lost his control and his taste for it.
@@anafu-sankanashi8933 The idea was more so that he ended up dying actually protecting Atlas like he said he was doing, instead of for whatever he was trying to do later in the volume.
It’s strange, because for a minute it looked like the show might have gone that route when in chapter 13 after ironwood wakes up in his cell Jacques says: “you lose...we both lose” and continues to have a very somber face that looks to be apathetic. As if he was reflecting on everything he’s done up till that point.
As cool as this theory is, I think Jacque was just too shallow of a character that a scene like this would be unbelievable. Even in the cell, he was mocking Ironwood and Jacques actions with the election and working with Watts directly contributed to the fall of Atlas, so I don’t think there was any way Ironwood wouldn’t have killed him.
The like to pander toward dumb stuff from the fandom like bringing Neo and Penny back, and making Bumblebee something close to canon? (they've never directly expressed their feelings to each other). A lot of people were interested in the Schnee family storyline but didn't get that either. If it isn't shipping or waifu bait then they don't give a fk
Love how Jacques and ironwood this volume was more unforgivable and vilified than cinder and emerald who hurt a hell of a lot more people with little remorse.
Double standards and the trend of "women can't be in the wrong no matter what", and probably killing Emerald would cause immense backlash cause you know she's POC.
Well, potentially Jacques could have killed more people than those two even if by second hands. Or by inaction. But hey, faunus racism and slavery not a thing anymore, so I'd say not guilty at all. Unlike Cinder and Emerald. Those two already earned theirs gallows.
They weren't even supposed to be like that. Adam was originally just a mentor. That was how she described him and when his underlings offered to go after her, he said no the cause is what is important. He didn't care about her. How did he go from that to obsessed, doesn't even care about the fanus, ex boyfriend.
I was under the impression that the reason for Adam going after Blake in volume 6 was to take revenge for Blake ruining his plans in volume 5, but RT botched it, giving the audience a totally different impression instead.
Even though I wasn't really a fan of Jacques, I still wanted his story to have some sort of a proper conclusion, not just be killed off because he "was a bad person" or "he wasn't needed anymore". Not to mention that by making Ironwood do it, it just makes his mentality and logic look worse.
@@angryhoovy5861 I was actually curious enough to want to learn at least a little bit about Jacques' motivations/backstory, and as much of a bastard as he was, he didn't deserve to just be pulverized while being trapped in a cell.
That may well have been the point; by then, Ironwood was fully under the control of his own semblance. He'd already crossed the line of killing anyone and everyone who either didn't follow his orders or was seen as being a problem of any size. He already shot members of the council who disagreed with him.
You ever feel like someone's death was just unnecessary? And I don't mean civilians getting caught in crossfire, you just killed 'em for the sake of killing em.
Sometimes, unnecessary deaths work, but in RWBY, the world they set makes it odd. Penny and Pyra deaths matter to the plot. Summer Rose's death is a huge part of both Yang AND Ruby's backstory. The main villain is ARGUABLY fighting so she can finally die. In the world of RWBY, there should not be meaningless or unnecessary deaths. All deaths should have a purpose.
@@darththeo not really no. Her end there would be more like a shock factor that can feel cheap rather than an actual satisfying end. Her death by Raven would be as stupidly unsatisfying and random as Sun being killed by Emerald.
I've never really care for Jacques but if a named character dies on-screen and the only thing the audience feels is either confusion or apathy, there's a problem.
Something that doesn't make sense to me is the fact that Jacques was shot with the same weapon Ironwood was shot by but for some reason, only Jacques get obliterated? That just doesn't make any sense to me and it's not as if Winter made the blow softer or anything like that, the weapon appears to be a simple click, and boom you get the same blast every time so why does one live and the other doesn't?
*rwby writers* Damn, writing redemption is hard. Hey, Ironwood on the path of random pyscho arc? Perfect, he can kill him off, so we don't have to write for him anymore. We're such geniuses
Would’ve been really cool to have Jacque be the one to talk some sense into Ironwood (who should’ve been having a mental breakdown after realization that everyone that looked up to him, left him. “We’ve both made mistakes trying to protect the empires we built, but that doesn’t mean we can’t make them right.” (Jacque) Or something like that (maybe less corny), I mean he’s had sometime to think on his action, and it would be really ironic coming from him.
And now Whitley is gonna be all happy go lucky now. No resentment whatsoever towards his drunkard of a mom, his neglectful/heartless older sibling and his neglectful/destructive middle sibling. Thanks CRWBY for that lesson.
See I dropped RWBY just after the Haven arc, rather then watch the show I watch Eruption Fangs video and SHOCKLY his videos give the most solid protraying of the series! Other RU-vidrs it comes off them trying to praise the show. "This character that we didn't know anything about death IS IMPACTFUL, IT SHOOK ME TO MY VERY CORE!" verses "yeah they killed off this character, WOOP DEE DOO THEY KILLED HIM TO RAISE TENSION AS THATS THE ONLY WAY RWBY RAISES TENSION BY KILLINF NAMELESS FOODER ONE FIVE TWO!" other youtubers seem like the type of people who are singing praises cause it's too late to back out. Or are just fucking brainwashed into thinking its a good show
The Schnee drama is no different from the Faunus racism. They want to introduce a serious topic but give simple solutions to the problems. Instead of Jacques being punished for his racist/abusive behavior he goes to jail for an election. Whitley completely got over Jacques when his mother and sister became nice to him, both of which were not interested in looking after him until it became easier with Jacques gone. Now Winter is only going to reconnect with her family because Weiss is gone(bruh imagine having an older sister who's forced to care about you only after she lost her favorite sibling and her other little sister figure Whitley just stay taking Ls even after his redemption) Their story has been resolved with stuff that has NOTHING to do with the original lore and drama
I can understand why you feel this way but I think it’s a tad bit more complex than that. Situations of emotional, physical, and substance abuse can really destroy a family dynamic. So while it may seem like characters suddenly pay attention and care, this is simply not the case. I’ll use Weiss and Whitley has an example. They were both victims to the same circumstance, but they each saw it in a different way. Previously, as the heir, Weiss viewed herself as superior and more likely to fall within her father’s good graces. Their dad was a pompous prick and always had this air of superiority, power, and status. This heavily influenced his kids. Winter had enough and fled to military service. Weiss decided to go to Beacon, and Whitley was just stuck. He’s not only the youngest, but he’s also the only male so it’s very possible that Whitley was favored over Weiss/Winter in multiple ways, causing a rift in their relationship. Weiss was as superficial and entitled as her father. Then she became a part of team RWBY and changed, slowly. Weiss antagonized Whitley a bit too much and Willow points this out. With Jacque no longer in the picture, with his fear, power, and influence no longer a factor, yeah, the Schnees are now free to openly discuss things but it’s very awkward for them because they’re not used to it. Willow hit behind the bottle, Winter escaped, as did Weiss, and Whitley stayed and endured it all, so his previous brattiness is really understandable now. It’s not that the family suddenly care about each other, they always did to a degree but there were many obstacles in the way. Whether Weiss fell or not, the development of relationship among them would continue to develop. They’re all victims of the same thing, Willow being an enabler to it as well. Jacques also wasn’t just arrested for the election. His actions had much greater consequences. He worked with the enemy and help dismantle Atlesian security which directly led to the fall of the kingdom. It makes perfect sense that Ironwood would kill Jacques because his actions inevitably led to the situation they found themselves in.
@@ctcdreamer I think the issue that sort of conflicts to this idea is that 1) it happens in the matter of days or even less (vol 8 takes place over 2 days and the time frame before Ironwood arrest of Jacques and the initial attack on Mantle happen in even less time if Ironwood is still at the Schnee mansion for the discussion with Oscar), 2) none of the actual issues are brought up or ever talked about in any way and are basically second to plot (which fine, understandable to a degree but what was Weiss doing when Nora was outcold again?), 3) its basically entirely one sided as Whitely is the one doing most of the reaching out in the vol, (even his mother is basically sidelined for most of the volume and only acts when directly asked to) and out of all the siblings, he has the least reason to reach out himself (and can be vindicated for because of Weiss own actions) 4) there has to be more lingering feelings for Whitely over their father than the other family members since they are the ones who ran out when they could (first the mother into the bottle, then Winter nto the military and finally Weiss to Beacon) so any grudges about that would still be present, and 5) victims of abuse are just as likely to blame the other victims in the vicinity which would make entirely logical sense in this situation and all of them essentially leaving to go their own way would be a conclusion that would makes sense for all of them (even slightly to the mother seeing as its proven to her that the only reasons the kids are a thing is for Jacques to have heirs). The issue now is that nobody is really going to believe any reconciliation of the family at this point because so little is actually known about them individually and the acts that were performed were mostly done as a means to facilitate the plot rather than the characters. Whitely calls Klein in for Nora, but why? He's tried to reach out to his sister at the party and that ended up with her putting his father in jail and ignoring him for most of the time there. The second time they meet, she actively puts a sword in his face and tells him to move. Unless those were supposed to be the '3 times' rule in actions, they were very poorly done and set up more of failure state rather than a success state. Willow at least has some reason to at least want to them to see them together as a sort of atonement for not being there herself but she doesn't do that herself but pushes the job onto Weiss. The only time the other siblings (Weiss and Whitely) ever mentioned their sister (Winter) is basically to say that Whitely didn't like her and that was the only relationship exploration we got from them. Outside of that dynamic, that's all we know of the family so having them all come together just because Jacques is dead seem less like more of an excuse than a reason. There are actual family that have essentially reunited for a funeral of someone they love dearly but never actually attempt to reconcile past grudges or issues in the frame of their mutual respect and love of for the person in the coffin. They come back for the event but that's it. The Schnee's are portrayed more as one of those families.
*redemption resolved or literary anyway of showing how a bad guy changed or made an impact* The writers- ew Anything related to cinder The writers- shiii say no more
@@bowenorcutt78 sadly for the most part I feel and this is a quote from another video that they are just speedrunning this series to get on with their lives and to move on to bigger and better projects.
I think it was so stupid that the writers WENT OUT OF THEIR WAY to have Winter tell him that they'll save him, only to have her not even CHECK on him while everyone's evacuating. Thats next level absent-mindedness.
Me too. Jacques wasn't a villain, he was a selfish asshole, a simple personal antagonist for Weiss. But Emerald was a villain that did horrible things, and yet, she got a sweet deal by becoming a friend of the 'heroes'. Really unfair.
@@AlexisDevilman Emerald is at least 25% responsible for the fall of Beacon. Watts, Cinder and Mercury being the other 25s. Why the heroes forgave her as quickly as they did is retarded.
If he survived escaped with the schnee family, i feel like they could have played with the idea of him living without having an seemingly infinite supply of money for once. I think learning to live like the people of Atlas could've humbled him and potentially given him a good redemption arc. But nah, gun go boom
Seriously, a family line that had so much potential, and yet we only know 2 of them: Weiss and Winter had enought screen time to make themselves known, and even though Whitley had enough screen time for us to somewhat know him, he didn't leave much of an impact and has the weight of an observer. Even when Whitley did contribute to the story, that was it. Afterwards he just fades into the background.
The worse part a SINGLE line from Whitley to Weiss makes Jacques' death matter. Like when Whitley is summoning the Schnee fleet him stopping and going "Do you think dad is okay?" Like that was it and it instantly puts together why Weiss wanted to save Jacques.
I always liked Whitley. Tho I tend to like minor characters who feel like they have a lot to tell but aren’t given a chance to. RWBY won’t ever delve into him and his struggles will always be nothing but footnotes and he’ll be disregarded by the writers and his own family
These writers are so bad. How could you dislike the character that you created like you need to make us understand why’s this person so despicable. I’m sure Jacque was supposed to represent Trump and knowing the fact that Miles hates him because he’s so “woke” and love inserting his own ideal on us that’s why he died without a care in the world.
Jacques wasn't originally meant to be that way - his behavior in V4 and in V7-8 was different in a lot of ways, and his V7-8 behavior was definitely Trump-esque, so it was probably Miles and the writing staff projecting Trump onto Jacques. The election nonsense that ultimately went nowhere definitely was supposed to evoke Trump and Hillary (Robyn Hill... maybe this is why no one likes Robyn lol).
Yet another character they changed for absolutely no reason. This is the man who went all the way to a warzone personally, to make sure his daughter is safe. To this thing. Even his looks changed- he was a confident, poised man in volume 3. He looked like a stern person, yet someone who in the end, would do anything for his children. Come volume 4, and he's a scampering money goblin.
@@rebelcheese5301 Hillary was a rich neoliberal globalist politician so Jacques was probably way more similar to her than Trump. Both were also very corrupt and held a degree of influence in the deep state.
Jacques's death could've been better if it went like this: He could've accepted that he would die in the fall and ask Ironwood to pass on a message to his family; the message being that he's sorry for everything he's done, but knows that it isn't enough to heal his family. Ironwood could've still killed him, but it would be out of mercy as opposed to cold blood. And oh, as for his entire character, it would've worked better if he was a strict yet fair father to his kids whilst also a caring husband to willow that got pushed away as a result of her drinking (which in turn could've came from her father's company facing backlash for its work practices. The practices also don't pertain to just the faunus, but it's a mix of them and low class humans working in dangerous conditions just to make a living in a kingdom that favors the rich) He could still be thrown in jail for meeting with Watts, but this was more so an idea to keep him safe (as I feel watts or Salem would've killed him to tie up any loose ends) This or something closer to it, would've been leagues better than him being a stereotypical rich mustache twirling villain.
This also ties in with the fundamentals of Jacques character, he was just too shallow for any of these plot points to happen. It would have been interesting if he wasn’t as shallow to see the story behind the twisted dynamic of the Schnees, but unfortunately, his character was just an ass.
Honestly I wish Jacques’ relationships with his family were explored more. Yeah there was Volume 4 and a tad bit in Volume 7 but nothing much else. Didn’t even speak to Willow. I think in some odd way he did care for his children, and was seemingly the only parent in the picture who tried, but handled them as he would a business, not as actual kids.
He actually did care, considering he let Winter join the military in the end (even though he could easily get her back with his influence, resources and connections) (same with Weiss entering Beacon) and flew to Vale personally to get Weiss back home after the fall of Beacon. The "abuse" is obviously a made up post-Monty thing as it's never really mentioned in Season 1 (i.e. Vol.1-3), only appearing in Season 2 (and, tbh, the "illustration" of it is laughable: Jacques slaps (!) his huntress-in-training (!!!) daughter, while having no aura himself (!!!!!), after she clearly got out of line and insulted him). It seems Monty originally planned to make him and the whole Schnees storyline more complex: what Weiss saw as him trying to keep her and her siblings under control could easily be Jacques simply trying to prepare his children for the future, as, whether they like it or not, they are Schnees destined to represent their line and inherit the company their grandfather founded and their father turned into a corporate empire. They've been assets since day 1 simply because of their blood and they can't do anything about it, no matter what they do or want. Unfortunately, that's all guesses and what-ifs at this point. We've got what we've got - yet another example of RT's bad writing and talent to waste potential.
@@PPWRUP Oh yeah I don’t think the slap was even abuse, it was just Jacques smacking his kid who was behaving like a primadonna. Like parents can punish their kids it doesn’t always have to be abuse.
@@riotkitty exactly. Thing is, the writers and their new target audience, i.e. the braindead prime tumblr user material part of the community, tried to portray it as such.
@@PPWRUP Ugh, that crowd is full of idiots. "Think of the children!" While at the same time punishing their children by saying 'We have the right to.' Basically Hypocrites.
I feel like Jacques would have been a much better character had he just been a cold businessman. Have him be the one to expand the SDC and make it great, not Nicholas Schnee. Have his decision to pass over Weiss as the heiress actually make sense and be logical - Weiss is more emotional, Whitely is more calculating, a man in charge of the company could potentially be seen as more legitimate than a woman through the eyes of the often chauvinistic investors/rival company owners, etc.. Have him be heartless and cold, but only when it's necessary. Have him show some level of care towards his family. Make him actually intelligent and intimidating, not weaselly and pathetic. Don't make him a good person, just have him be an actual human being 🤦
Honestly, Jacques never came off as an... abuser, I guess? Like, he wasn't a good guy but outside of being... not a good father I guess? There's the entire Faunus racism situation as well but that's not just due to Jacques, it's a whole world wide thing. All in all, I just felt bad he died in his cell, doing nothing, and really giving of nothing in the end.
See, I was okay with Jaques being a one-dimensional villain, but I 100% agree the way he was killed off was cheap. I do kind of wish they had expanded on Whitley and his father's relationship. Heck, it could even have been used to show what a manipulative monster he was if the writers had wanted to go 100% villain for papa Shnee, by having some sort of father/son final confrontation where Jaques makes it clear that he never loved his son, and was only nice to him to manipulate him. At least then it would have been satisfying to watch Ironwood kill him
Sometimes people don't get to be redeemed. and they just die uselessly. I personally would have rather had Jaques die by having a big 'ol shard of fire dust with the remains of Ilia's parents in it land on him and explode but some people tell me that that is just too corny. It still would have been a better death in my opinion.
They're probably too afraid to handle such a sensitive topic... given their sensitive fanbase... so they just decided to kill him. But there's one potential reason for his weird death - dead characters will appear in volume 9 and that is where we have his story find closure with Weiss.
The funny part is RT made it this way when they got more control post Monty Jacque was kinda just said to be a asshole beforehand he even personally came to pick up Weiss from Beacon showing that despite being a shit person he still cared about his family enough to personally ensure his daughter was safe RT introduced themes that weren't as awful as originally made just to get scared by them instead of them working around what Monty gave them but they didn't want to focus on would've been understandable at least
@@s3studios597 if MHA' handling of Endeavour ever taught me, people are very against any form of characterization or development for "villains" or Abusers like Endeavour other than divine punishment or just pure death. They are against the idea of a character being more than their crimes. Crwby probably notice this too and instead of doing it anyway like Hori did with MHA, they followed what the stans want anyways
Just like with the White Fang. They kill off characters with sensitive topics they’re not smart enough to handle. What even happened to the rest of the White Fang. Are they implying that Atlas, the most racist kingdom, doesn’t have any White Fang members just because Adam’s dead
Watts is all on Cinder. he was done "dirty" as you say just so Cinder wouldn't have a rival For Salem's favor except for Tyrian. And let's face it Tyrian is full-on insane. Functioning insane but insane just the same.
You would think someone who was the primary antagonist for wisest storyline would get some kind of satisfying resolution. While I liked that Ironwood killed him at the same time it felt to quick and anticlimactic for this to be his end. It felt like rooster teeth didn't know what to do with him so just had him killed off and in a way just to make Ironwood look worse failing to account that Jacque was such an a****** that most people would see killing him as a heroic act. He deserved a more suitable punishment.
Could have been super cliche and just let Ironwood let him go simply saying the typical line "You can go Jaques.... your not my priority right now, but be very aware that the next time I see you, and I will see you, it will be on sight." After that Jaques could sneak through a portal, contemplating every action he's made and when all this shit went down with cinder, neo and ironwood, Just once, a single time a single act of him being a father. Jaques in the heat of the moment whether it was when Weiss or Winter(probably weiss) was auraless, Jaques would jump in to push one of them out of harms way getting executed and his body falling into the void without a single word and just a confused look on his own face surprised he did anything at all for his family. Super cheesy and cliche but at least it's more than what we got, since it's not about should be forgive him, but more of COULD we?
So Jacques got the Adam treatment but Emerald gets a pass. Looks like Neo might get a pass to after both those characters actually murdered with their own hands. Plus both were involved in the main crew's lost of close loved ones and they get a second chance.
The biggest problem with Jacques as a character is that he had a very insignificant role in the story. I mean she was the head of the Dust company but none of his decisions are ever seen affecting the world around the characters prior to arriving in Atlas. I mean there's supposedly a dust embargo but you never see any of the towns or the kingdom of Mistral suffering due to lack of supplies. There's a claim that he's cheating the Faunus out of fair wages but you never see that either. I mean all in all it felt like Rooster Teeth never really invested that much time into the family or into his character for us to care. Then out of nowhere you get this orange man bad allegory election arc for character that well we know very little about. So to be completely honest, I was never really invested in the character in the first place so his death really didn't affect me that much. Hell I'm still not all that invested in the family as a whole because it just feels like all the characters and their dynamic are hallow. Especially when you trying to play some idea that boys can't be victims(i.e. Whitley) while girls can be complete jerks with no repercussions( Weiss in vol 1).
The scene existed solely, SOLELY so we could see what Ironwood's gun could potentially do before the big finale, artificially raising the stakes in the fight with Winter. On the other hand, I don't care one way or the other that he's gone, so might as well blow him up so that people don't make a million theory videos in the next year about how he might have survived the flood.
You missing the point adults in Rwby are corrupt ,cowardly and stupid and team rwby and associates are the only brilliant people so the adults deserve death ,since they killed the lion and tin man wonder how the scare crow will be killed off.......(notice the sarcasm)
Jacques character according to the lore was akin to a golddigger. He married into the family for the money and once he was named heir of the Schnee Dust company he basically told Willow he didn't love her which resulted in her alcoholism. So even from the start his character essentially boiled down to greedy and selfish asshole.
Considering all the abuse the Fanus got for generations from the SDC all of that coming from an outsider and only 1 person from the Schnee family doesn't add up.
@@falconeshield Actually according to the lore the Schnee dust company was founded by Weiss's grandfather Nicholas who was described as a fair and compassionate employer.
@@falconeshield and honestly we don’t even know if he even ordered that abuse to his workers. It could have been a manager or something who did it for all we know. Honestly from what I know abuse among coworkers is almost more common than about between a boss and an employee
I always got the impression that, while it was a strained relationship, Weiss did have something akin to love for her father. She wanted her independence from him, but I never got the feeling she outright hated him, even after volume 4. For his part, Jacques himself must have felt something for his children, or he wouldn't have cared if Winter abandoned abandoned family, and he wouldn't have named Weiss as his heir, especially given her rebel streak. They should have focused on that and we should have seen Weiss tell Winter to spare him on screen, perhaps with some more insight into Weiss' thought process. At the end of the day the man was still her dad.
For me personally I was genuinely upset when they killed him off, but not because I liked him but I really wanted to see him reconnect with his family. Maybe not a redemption, but SOMETHING y'know. Weiss and the rest of the family didn't get to speak to him either besides Winter but it left me feeling hollow because of lost potential.
I hate how Ironwood just kinda, blew him up And if he survived that, which is very unlikely, he died immediately after when everything fell It felt like "we're leaving Atlas, kill him with the other Atlas characters" and it was such wasted potential Jacque had so much potential and they did nothing with it
@@bashamd96 yep that's what we call an idiot plot, previously competent and intelligent characters become stupid or make stupid decisions for the sake of progressing the plot
What if Winter just lied about Weiss wanting to spare him and she left the guns there so Ironwood would kill him and it's out of her conscience for shits and giggles lol
For real, has RWBY given a proper resolution to ANY character in this show? I'm thinking about all the characters who died in this show and none of their deaths feel like the culmination of an arc. The closest might be Pyrrha, but even that feels incomplete because she turned into ashes and I'm confused as to how that happened or if that means she's coming back. For God's sake, I still don't entirely understand her "Do you believe in destiny" line or why she felt the need to say it to Cinder.
Honestly kinda impressive they found the one character who'd be able to justifiably get the fridge trope applied to them (her name might as well have been Morticia Necesse with all the foreshadowing) and still managed to leave it feeling somewhat lacking in payoff.
it would be nice to see him forced to live as normal man for once, to try survive by his own means, heck, not even need a "redemption", just show him having to work under the scorching sun of Vacuo.
With jacque and all of atlas gone where can Weiss go from here. Her entire character when we met her was based around family pride and now that that family and the source of that pride is gone what can Weiss’ story do? At this point it would make the most sense for her to leave the whole salem thing to the others and make sure her family is safe considering how she just made them all homeless and unemployed in the same stroke.
You see this is the exactly problem I have. Everything about him is just surface level, even his death. No deeper impact, just a throw away character. Especially offensive since Jacques is so important for the entire Schnee family that making him one dimensional I think weakened the entire storyline. Not that they really did anything with it but... -_-
It feels like RWBY wants to be deep and serious but practices simple storyline beats. Jacque could have been placed as a serious, cold businessman who believes that what he does is the correct answer because he's calculated the costs and determined that the gains are better. Make him think of EVERYTHING as a business. Don't put him in the running for a politician because it's a lazy "this guy is clearly a villain" plot. You could then have had Whitley try to follow his father's footsteps but constantly have the internal dilemma of wanting to be better (ala his mother). The plot thread should have followed Whitley more than Jacque since Weiss basically "abandoned" him and her family to go be independent (Winter could have also had response to her joining the military but have accepted the costs like her father would have unwittingly). The show doesn't know what to do with certain characters when they reach a certain level that could evolve into an actual character arc and just kill them off. Adam, Jacque, Ironwood, Penny (as a human), Hazel...
I made Jacque a backstory so his character feels complete. Born into the poverty of Mantle Jacque was a scrawny young man who used his smarts and silver tongue to solve his problems. He was constantly bullied, robbed, and beaten up because of his figure. Because of this a growing up in a broken home he had a great distain for the city of Mantel and the people in it. Jacque with great test scores was able to enter a prestigious University in Atlas and, after graduation, worked as an investor for the Schnee dust company. After meeting Lilith he decided to move up the corporate later by dating her and giving business advice to her father. Jacque then found out about Mr. Schnee's failing lungs and fearing of losing the prestige life he grew to be accustomed to decided to marry Lilith so he can inherit the wealth. After the death of his father in law Jacque's true colors shown in the business life and at home. At day he would profit off of the suffering of Mantle and at night he would rape and beat Lilith until she complies with his demands or threaten to divorce her and take her family's if she tried to use summoning to fight him. Jacque then had 3 children, but it wasn't until after Whitley's he lost focused on his daughters. Winter became a huntress to leave her father and Weiss planned on doing the same. When they was alone Jacque would mold Whitley into his image while Lilith drinks to slowly kill herself and ease her suffering. There his character is fleshed out and you can still hate him.
Oh god I just realized we never got a scene of Jacques with Willow. For all the hints we got of how he basically broke her down into an alcoholic by marrying her to get the Schnee name, we never saw them interact. How disappointing...
CRWBY isn't shy to kill off guys that are 'just bad' or go against the views of RWBY and friends. Jacques' death just happen because the writers knew no one would care he died because he's a "bad dad", they could've done more to his character as you said, but that would require effort from CRWBY's side.
As much as I despise Jaques Schnee. I can't help wondering what was going on in his mind after realizing Ironwood was going to kill him. What was he thinking about? Or even Who. His money. His power. Or any of his family members. What exactly was going on in his mind at that moment?
if you think about it, killing Jacques the way they did basically castrated Weiss as a character. One of the big things about her character was her family lineage and dealing with her father and the family business. Well now the plotline that carried her character from the beginning turned out just to be a giant wet fart, her family issue was mellow-dramatic solved/went away, and their business is in shambles and there's literally nothing left to put back together or rebuild since Atlas is destroyed. Just like Blake in V6 when they basically decided to just end the whole fanus is oppressed thing with Adam dying, now half of team's RWBY's purpose to the story is gone/no longer valid. Now that I think about, 3/4 of RWBY are like that since Yang's entire arc is basically done since volume 5 with Raven. Everything after is just her being there to fill up a slot or shipping. Considering the fact that it seems she's allergic to expanding or talking about Ruby's mom in more details then, "She existed!" for the last 3 volumes she's basically just been a "there" character, doing nothing else besides waiting for the writer to do another ship-bait sub-plot or etc. I would even expand the same to Ruby since for a while it looks like she's just dragged around for the plot but I'll let it go since technically we have the Silver eyes plotline and Ruby's mother plotline. On top of all that, even them growing to be Huntsman was a moot point they did on purpose. So literally most of RWBY's main characters have nothing going on to make them interesting to be around besides just, "Well they exist, they are not happy, and shipping." Such a depressing fall considering how it wasn't like most of these plotlines ended with a happy bang but a fluttering flicker.
Lol this dude's funny. He thinks RWBY writers are capable of character development. That's the best joke I heard all day, oh man I'm dying of laughter.
Even if winter had said "it was Whitley's idea" alone without changing anything else, would've made me feel more out of that death.... Having Weiss as the forgiving child was "ok" but killing him just like that after acknowledging he'd lost everything just felt weird.... And even if they'd just left him there, the way episode was set up winter didn't have the time to go back even if she wanted to for Weiss's sake.... If we saw a scared Jacque screaming as water filled the halls with only a matter of time before the cell walls stopped working, I'd feel a little bad for him, but at least I'd feel something....
A redemption arc would have been good, or even just a reason to care about his death. But all CRWBY have done in the previous volumes is build up expectations and ruin them, Jacques was supposed to be an unlikeable character, but even still he just seems so 2 Dimensional and there's no other emotion from his death but 'I'm glad that arsehole's dead' or 'meh'. It could have been so much more impactful, but they just keep dropping the ball on every single character that even has a semblance (Lmao pun) of potential. Even Yang, who is a MAIN CHARACTER barely speaks in volume 8 aside from to either whine about everything and ignore Ruby who is her sister for one scene with blake. Not to mention the whole PTSD wasted potential, and even then. They dropped the ball on that again, they ruined Yang's character, going from someone who was searching endlessly to find her mum, and even mentioning that she sought out adventure as her motivation to become a huntress. But that all got wasted, it would have been nice to see Yang at least go to a new place and be awestruck, or appreciate/make comments of a new unforeseen environment. That all got thrown out of the window. Blake, doesn't even have a character at this point and is just an accessory to Yang. It's just, the deeper they get into the story with more characters, the less development they get. Surely to god they'd have figured out that they need to stop spreading the cast out this far, rather than making sure every character gets screentime, use fewer characters and give us something to care about. TL;DR CRWBY can't manage their characters, plot points or character development aside from Weiss and even Ruby.
This is not even mentioning that CRWBY tried to use Jacques' character as an allegory to force their political agenda into the show during the unimportant election side plot in volume 7
I wanted to see character development for Jaque Schnee. A development where he chose not to focus on profits, influenced by a terrible situation which could have been a reason for his change. Furthermore, Jaque change could have lead himself to a more satifying death where he could have sacrifice himself; revealing a contrast between himself and Gen. Ironwood. Gen. Ironwood change from being a person who cared about the safty of the people to only caring about the needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few in order to win, while Jaque could have been someone who only cared about winning slowly developing into someone who cares for the people and less about his wealth and assets which he to protect.
There was a bit, like literally tiny bit when there's like Jacques would probably change but instead of giving that chance they instead killed him off that easily just for Ironwood to be more 'scary'.
I’m still annoyed they didn’t take the opportunity to make him and watts brothers, both being lost in the end could have been something to add to the emotional impact of the finale.
Rewriting Jacques and/or his impact on the plot feels pretty daunting to me, not because it’d be unusually hard but because where do we even begin? Sure, he can be tweaked in later seasons, but at that rate we might as well just start from the beginning, since he’s always been a mostly vague and two-dimensional character. I personally don’t feel the need to make him good or sympathetic, but I do want an interesting, complex character, or at least one with the dark cunning the show always accuses him of. Why? Because he’s an antagonist to Weiss and the rest of the Schnees, and giving them something interesting to deal with inherently makes them more interesting. Weiss doesn’t just need to stand up to a bad man, but a grim reminder of what it means to be someone of wealth and influence, something she wants to achieve morally. The family as a whole has complex relationships with him, from Willow’s neglect to Weiss and Winter bonding to Witley feeling abandoned by everyone *but* Jacques. These are all basic ideas, but they’re compelling ideas driven by him being a nuanced character rather than a limp sock puppet who’s name could have been replaced with Mr. Generic Badman.
If Ironwood survived the green spartan laser blast, there’s a chance Jacques could still be alive. I hope Ironwood, Jacques, and Watts survived and they’re all grizzled and crazier but have to set their differences aside and work together, and then they encounter Qrow, Robyn and the Aesops. Probably the most potentially interesting plot thread for Volume Nine, don’t really care about the main cast falling into some pit with a tropical Kirby dreamland level
I dont have a problem with a character simply being a "bad person" as opposed to being an outright villain. the thing with those kinds of characters though, is that you dont kill them. they are there to be punchingbags, literary foils and eventually they either get sentenced to some sort of eternal punishment or they just get redeemed. ironwood killing jaque was bad because A: it furthered showed that ironwoooood is literally just crazy now, and jaques "arc" if we wanna call it that got cut off abruptly
I just want to point out that the entire story would have been better served never having Jacque in it at all. Just... name-drop him, and maybe show scenes of him during broadcasts, but never actually have him play a role in the story. Keeping him a mystery would have tightened the story laces overall and made it more compact and compelling.
I would argue about the air of intrigue for adam and Raven. Raven's a coward who gloats about the fact she's 3 steps away from pragmatism instead of one like everyone else. Adam had a sad backstory we never got. It's more their viewpoints on life that interesting in my opinion than what they've done up until this point.
Instead of flushing out the Schnee family’s story CRWBY instead heavily focuses on making Ironwood THE bad guy because of reason, and forcing the audience to believe that Cinder is THE ultimate villain even though no one likes her and she should’ve been killed off in Volume 5.
I am so damn tired of the "evil dad" character archetype not because they're evil but because they only exist to act as a folly for the main characters. It's the same shitty writing every time. Even in video games like Persona 5 or FE Three Houses.
Jaques could've been the moustache twirling villain that V7 and V8 needed instead of Ironwood, and at the same time be explored as a character himself. Just hear me out: Jaques is greedy and cares about having influence over people. He's not above enslaving an entire race, and he's not above cheating his way into the council of Atlas. So now imagine this: RWBY and Ironwood agree on having to evac Mantle's populace to Atlas and launch Atlas into orbit. Preparations begin for this plan, with ships and supplies being moved around. But Jaques is a part of the council now, he has influence over what happens in Atlas, and he doesn't want his "workers" leaving and abandoning his mines. He'll lose profits like crazy, he'll go bankrupt. He wants to stop the good guys from doing that, from saving the lives that he sees as belonging to him. To that end, he allies with Salem. After all, she only wants the relic and Maiden, not Atlas or Mantle. He doesn't know that the relic keeps Atlas afloat, no one does, so it's not hard for him to convince the council that Ironwood is overreacting. Ironwood gets stripped of his powers, stripped of his position as general, and the rest of the council takes control of the army. Now it's RWBY and Ironwood vs the council, Jaques, and Salem. They have to fight to retake Atlas from the hands of this greedy bastard that only cares about his profits, no matter how many lives it costs. And yeah, I'll admit that this idea needs a lot of work. But it's something I came up with in literally 5 minutes, and which utilizes the characters better than the show itself (which is not a hard feat tbh). Hell, you can even have Winter and the Ace Ops as insiders, working for the army while actually working for Ironwood because they're loyal to him and trust his judgement. This would also address the rampant faunus racism in Atlas and Mantle, and would give Salem a chance to be an actual threat herself in the volumes. Since Ironwood is no longer a villain, and Jaques isn't much of a fighter, Salem could step up to the plate and fight the heroes herself. And it would lead to a much more satisfying death for Ironwood too, if you really want to kill him off. He's shown as someone who truly loves his kingdom and is devoted to protecting it at all costs, leading to him maybe sacrificing himself to deliver that bomb to Monstra and slow Salem down to buy the others time. Atlas still falls, Salem still regens and gets the relic, team RWBY still falls to Oum knows where, but character deaths are much more impactful. And at the end of it all, faced with the consequences of his greed and racism, Jaques falls as well. And now, on top of all of that, imagine Adam thrown into the mix. Just...imagine that for a moment. The potential of having him and the White Fang redeemed, helping the heroes not because they agree, but because they want to save all of the faunus in Mantle and defeat Jaques, their oppressor. They could be the revolutionaries they were always meant to be, and Adam could at least turn to an anti-hero instead of what he ended up as. Holy shit this turned into a long comment.
See, And this is why I stopped watching Rwby after the fall of Beacon, or after Monty's death... I don't honestly remember which came first... Because they can't even think up simple stuff like this.
@@lucaswinsor4469 Monty died before Beacon's downfall, I think before S3 even premiered but I'm not sure. He worked on it a bit, but not too much. But here's the thing, Monty was never too involved in the writing process. He was an animator at heart, and that's mostly what he did. He animated cool fights and left others to try and write a story around them. So the writing staff was pretty much the same before and after his passing, the only difference is that we don't have cool fights anymore so everyone's paying more attention to the writing itself since that's all that's left. Also, I'm technically cheating here. I have the advantage of hindsight, and it's easier to correct bad writing than it is to write something original yourself.
@@thatexoguy6721 Note: I was a little off on my timeline, I saw right about up to the nuckelavee fight, and then it just wasn't as enjoyable anymore so I stopped. It doesn't change that the writing took a drastic turn downwards after Monty's influence ended. Enough so that I suspect Monty was more involved in the story than you think he was, or than RT lets on. they actively began to undermine characters that were already set up, to the point of completely changing their personalities (See Adam as the prime example, he went from lawful evil to chaotic stupid in the space of a single season, if anything I've seen from after Beacon is legitimate). The remains of team Jnpr are the only ones who've gotten decent character development aside from "We're the main characters so of course we're right" Even if the main writers are the same, I HAVE to imagine Monty had significant influence on the direction of the show, because it's just gotten objectively worse.
He was turning around from being in jail so long! Dude just fuckin exploded.... 3: I hate him but i love him ahhaahha it makes me angry how his death happened
They should’ve had Jacque try to make a new reformed schnee dust company in vacuo or vale as a changed man after a couple volumes, making him start from the bottom and work his way back up and also have a better relationship with his family. Then have cinder or Salem kill him
Jacque is a sumptom of a bigger problem of the atlas arc that being this should of been weiss's arc to shine/have a major pay off for her character growth, but they decided to do the bare minimum
They’ve been writing volume 9 for months now and have been done writing 8 for like a year, you might mean they just finished animating volume 8, but that is completely normal for any animation
@@aidenl5969 It's not normal when you say an episode is done on Twitter, to then delay it in response to an outside tragedy, to then admit you finished everything 1 day before the scheduled final episode release. It feels like they took advantage of an outside event to hide their crunch time and it shows. Very tasteless.
@@falconeshield I never said there wasn’t crunch time, but Robert was saying that they just finished writing the volume a few days ago which is completely false they most likely are already writing volume 10 right now, I was commenting on the writing not the animation, animation takes a long time and I’m not defending crunch time but animating rwby is a long process that takes time
