The Homeric Gods by W. F. Otto | AGR Book Reviews 

Love Otto. So many atheist today belong to The Church of Christ without Christ. They think they’re pagan but really just rebellious against their upbringing. They still carry Christian ideas like perfecting humanity and becoming immortal. Pure hubris. The Greeks understood man’s place in the world much better. Embrace the tragic.

Nietzche was also an Ancient Greek scholar. It's been a while, but, as I remember, Nietzche described Dionysus as the representations of passions and ecstasies while Apollo represented order and logic. To me this encapsulates the experience of life. I agree with your analysis of Christianity and modern Pagans.

The tendency of neopagans to lean towards the mystery cults is according to Dr Hutton, due to the practical reality of being a pagan in modern times. Certainly the public religion of ancient Greece was very different but it's hard to practice that without the participation of the state.

the Gods are laws

Otto's book on Dionysus was such good read. Looking forwards to now purchasing the Homeric Gods. What I really enjoy about this series is the way in which Michalis tries to take us into the minds of the Ancient Greeks and bypass modern and other lens's that distort history. This in my view is what makes this not just an entertaining but enlightening series.

Wonderful video and discussion! It has opened many doors of thought for me, and for others as well. I shall contribute one recommendation for viewers to read The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name by Brian C. Muraresku - Αν πεθάνεις πριν πεθάνεις, δεν θα πεθάνεις όταν πεθάνεις

Great video. I read Otto’s Theophany and I didn’t find it very understandable. I don’t know if the problem lies in me or the book. I found Mircea Eliade’s The Sacred and the Profane, which deals with a similiar topic, much more understandable. I will have to read Otto’s The Homeric Gods aswell.

Adding this to my list.. think I’ll order it next actually… I’m an agnostic that has been casually exploring Greek paganism and modern Hellenism always gives me pause, likely for the reasons you explain (too Christian-like, really)

Book reviews are an excellent idea and a very welcomed one. Thank you Michali. Again and again your conversations are of the utmost interest and so enriching. 🙂

I am a American Hellenic polytheist , I also major in religious studies in college. I am so happy to see your channel! I agree soooo much with your synapsis of “modern pagan.” Approaches. Personally the issues I have with most of my peers is that they project American culture into ancient Hellenic religion. They forget that they are praying to gods who are not American. And so they treat the gods like Yahweh. Sooo many of them feel “called” but I disagree with that narrative that they are. I believe they just WANT to experience the beautiful divinity of Greece but I think l it is incredibly rare an individual actually would be “called” to service in any form. I am an American, and I dress like one 😂. Religion isn’t just a costume party. I don’t think death is a bad thing, but I don’t care about any afterlife at all. I never liked the narrative of focusing on such a Thing. Why waste time worrying about what isn’t here??? Drives me crazy 😂. Your videos are a blessing!! Thank you.

I’ve been reading “On the Historicity of Jesus” by Richard Carrier. I’m still early in the book but I’ve learned that the mystery cults popular at the time (whether about Jesus or Dionysus or Osiris) were a relatively late development as far as ancient religion is concerned. I don’t doubt that long before that Ancient Greek paganism was more communal based and less individual and secretive

I would be interested in more videos that cover the materials that have severed as references and inspiration. I also wholly agree with the idea that modern pagans tend to over indulge in the mystery cult aspect in their practice. There is an obvious lingering influence of Christianity that expresses itself in a variety of ways from the over emphasis on the afterlife to wholly personal practice. I would however add the caveat that more personal and mystery based practice lends itself to solitary practice that a secular (or in some aspects a still very Christian) culture and society demands of almost all pagans. I would point to the overemphasis of Hekate's role as a goddesses of magic and of witches as an example of this. As always fantastic work that sadly very underappreciated.

did plato also comment on problems with the way homer described the gods?

The gods being understood as imminent natural processes is a profound thought, I actually have no hesitation believing in their reality. I think its also quite natural for us, in the mode of interacting with the natural gods, to personify them ( often as the greatest of us), as a sort of internal process that occurs in that moment. And given certain experiences Ive had, I think its very modernist to hand wave away that process," you're making it up, merely day dreaming." We too often dismiss our own nature, the blood knowledge that comes to the conscious surface at those times. Leads me to think that there a harmony between the natural processes and the esoteric. Perun / Perkunos rides in the storm, striking with his bolts at the serpent, mother earth is seeded by spring and summer rains and bears new life constantly, ect. My two cents. Great content, always so much to consider.

Ναι, να συνεχίσεις.

This was very interesting, thanks for the video! Yes, do more of these, please! :)

he does not have that power... he is the power yes yes yes this is how I used to explain ancient gods to many of my friends!!!!

Not four minutes in, and your video has inspired my newest poem & poem video. Can't wait to see the rest of it.

Thank you so much. Otto should be rediscovered. He was also formative for me. ✨🙏🏻✨

It would be interesting to see you guys do a video on Nietzsche's dichotomy of Dionysion vs. Apollonion. I've read Nietzsche, as well as other writers on this topic, and I still can't fully comprehend what these two terms mean.

3:20 I think that It makes sense why Germany and why then. Maybe what is interesting is what was the first move, but as I'm riding that de Benoits right now I just saw maybe quite an interesting and deep meaning of ww2, and this was just exactly that period before - if I'm right (like I know much less nothing about this part of history and ww2). But the Russian communistic side reminds me just of that Socratic-biblical philosophy and faith (I can't clearly say what is written in that book and what are my own thoughts, I've just messed it all up) uk this ideology of messiah times, oneness, 'equality and being a part of greater ideas, forms. On the other hand, there is, I think, the opposite aproach of Germany. That one anti-moralist built on these pagan ideas of homeric heroism and everything. Like I wouldn't say that Nacists claimed to be good but rather to be great . Like this pagan heroes with their terrible pride. And you know, they both fucked it up, both communism and nacism. And also totally killed these ancient Homeric thoughts so nobody knows about this worldview because they showed the worst example. It was like a war between Socratic-biblical and Homeric philosophy or even faith. So therefore it somehow makes sense, but what was the first step? As I said, I know absolutely nothing about this history, but I've just have to share these thoughts because it sounds so incredible and it reminded me of this passage from this video.

Thank you so much for such recommendation! At the beginning the book seemed quite odd to me, probably also due to such academic english, but now I'm reading the V. capter and wow. This is one of the best books I have ever read, this man Otto is perfect almost like some poet in describing all these quite strange and difficult ideas! I just finally learned what the Greek religion was about, but mainly I learned even more about my own way of thinking, and once when I understood the sense of Greek spirit I saw how close it is to my own way of thinking so it's absolutely amazing! You wouldn't probably expect how suitable this book can be for 15 years old boy :) Thanks!

Great book review! I'll be reading "The Homeric Gods" with great interest. It's especially difficult for me to understand why the Greek gods resemble humans in so many ways (they can be vengeful, lustful, petty, greedy, etc.), I hope the book gives some answers to that. I've also been very drawn to the mystery cults for many years, especially Mithraism, so I hope I get a better understanding of the non-mystical everyday religion and worldview of the ancient Greek people too.

Christianity has always been between matter and spirit in feeling . In history it also has that "in-Between" aspect [did such and such happen historically or was it liminal, or both?] . It has been experienced and thought of through many lenses. It was probably John who united the two streams of Initiation and the Church , but yet still remains "the secret church" . The Apocalypse is also both outer - however the inner, is still substance . Just because its invisible does not mean that its visibility -to a more evolved eye- is not apparent as a rock or a stream. Christianity differs from paganism in regards to the WORD becoming flesh not just in some magical ceremony but as a Cosmic Event. It differs in the resurrection and re-appearance of the body - some call the phantom body , the Garden of Gethsemane, the the Transfiguration -the Three Magi ... [if interpreted esoterically] . I am still reading and learning about the Neo-platonic philosophy . There are convergences and there are differences . Follow the Spirit. "Modern Paganism" ? If one thinks that Christianity is just another mystery school or that it stole begged and borrowed from pagans -that is not esoteric thinking in my view although I encounter that there as well.

Finally got around to this one! I could not put it down; it is beautifully written and has shifted my thinking as a wandering agnostic, with the idea of scratching that spiritual itch by leading an active and decisive life that reveres the world around us and our place in it, as part of it, whether you think of the gods as conscious entities, or as processes of the natural world personified with anthropomorphic descriptions and stories (or as both) and the concept of fate as the effects of those processes on your decisions. What a cathartic and energizing way to view divinity and our connection to it, at least that was my interpretation. And I like his caution against judging the gods by our conventional senses of human morals and justice, for whichever way you choose to view the gods, they are the universal forces of nature, as beyond and apart (from our waking thoughts and feelings, everyday life and concepts of right and wrong) as the planets and stars that are named after them (and yet still the constant undercurrent of everything we do); and like the wider universe we are inescapably subject to their effects on us but not vice versa. I don’t yearn for any return to ancient times but I do wonder how differently things might have unfolded if such a mindset had not been swept away by various forces of history… I look forward to reading the classics after having read this first.

being new to the study of metaphysics, i am not familair with all its terms. the idea of gods as laws, principles, or now processes, isn't disagreeable; however, isn't this like what is sometimes meant by "spirit" in english? "vibes", to describe various modes or states of being, seems a modern reach for the same idea. thanks for the content. i'm playing catchup on your channel. i have taken an interest in the vedic mode of thinking and now you have (re-)sparked an interest in the ancient greeks! (this long journey was prompted, in no small part, by the medical-scientific scandal of our time!)

The best way to describe them is ideaentities. They exist however they cannot interfere with human affairs instead, when we are aware of and respectful of these gods we can live a better life. We can only save ourselves with their help but only thru our initiative. All gods flow from one, Zeus.

I must have this book now!

Just finished Otto's book on Dionysus and the conclusion was just stunning! His thoughts on the pairing of Apollo with Dionysus actually reminds me a little of Daoism, but illustrated with anthropomorphized faces (the gods). Can't wait to read this one, too.

Yes, it is a very useful cultural operation reading again determined books, under the light of third millenium. Thank You.

If a born and raised Muslim, converts to Christianity, is he considered a Christian or just a Muslim that couldn't spiritually connect to islam?

Is the abrahamic god an actual deity? Or is he just merely the representation or personification of what is good and righteous? Is Jesus an actual deity or is he just another personification, or representation of the abrahamic god which is the embodiment of peace, love and goodness?

Is Aristogenesis a dead project? I'm assuming that one voice is yours man? I really hope not, I absolutely love the content on that and this channel! Absolutely imperative work you fine folks are doing, thank you.

Otto has his opinion… but is Eleusinian Mysteries not secretive ? Without his Christian distortion lens?

Loved this review! Hope to see more in the future

I so admire Otto as I do Calasso. Who else can I read to enter the ancient Greek mindset. And could you do an episode on The Wooden Horse? Good work!

Un entendimiento de los dioses como Memes (memetica de Dawkins) en el cual las ideas y pasiones más profundas van creando memes más complejos y poderosos, y aquellas 12 ideologías antiguas más persistentes en la cultura y el inconsciente colectivo, en forma de arquetipos configurados por una conjunción particular de hormonas, neurotransmisores que generan acciones que interactúan con otros sujetos y estos con el entorno. ¿Sería para ti, esta lectura de dioses-memeticos una lectura con un lente moderno del paganismo y por tanto una lectura puramente moderna, o sería utilizar el lenguaje moderno para describir realmente la esencia del paganismos antiguo? Saludos!

I love this book! Besides the content of the book, the way it was translated to English is almost poetic at times. His other book on Dionysus is also a great read, and I recommend, as it was recommended to me, to read Euripides' Baccchae afterward. I love your channel by the way! \o/

I just wonder if humanity needs a new religion. I make it clear that I don't consider the existing one bad or wrong, just that some development is needed in the existing one. Let me explain myself. Just as neo-pagans cannot fully or correctly understand ancient religions created by people of another era with completely different lifestyles and interpret them incorrectly and sometimes dangerously, perhaps the same is true, at least interpretively, of Christianity? If we consider that this religion was created 2000 years ago and even to its completion it goes back a long way, perhaps we can consider it almost ancient, thus the question arises, is it misinterpreted by the new peoples and does not work. Can't provide integration?

Excellent review. I have started reading the book. I’m a bit confused. Does Otto not see gods as conscious entities?

But isn't the goal still is Apotheosis This is not to deny this life, rather, it is to fully see Life in its most Beautiful Realization Revelation already rests with every figures, one must see to oneself the truth The Gods aren't jealous, every Wise men had Athena gifting them Light regardless of what they profess to believe

But do you believe the gods actually exist as real beings on a metaphysical level?

greetings, Michael, I've studied W. F. Otto's ''Die Gotter Griechenlandes'' back in 1995, and your video is an opportunity (Hermes) for this book to be REVISITED by me. as far as I remember at the ending of the book he makes a parallelism between homeric gods and christian saints, and how christian era Greeks tried to introduce their past believes in the new religion that was imposed . p.s. (in my translation) «κι έτσι η πίστη του πλέον πνευματικού λαού μένει άνευ της απαιτούμενης σημασίας και αδόξαστη. αυτός ο εξαίσιος κόσμος της πίστεως η οποία γεννήθηκε από τον πλούτο και το βάθος της ύπαρξης και ουχί από τα άγχη και μη εκπλήρωσή της. αυτός ο μετεωρίτης μίας θρησκείας η οποία, όχι μόνον είδε τη λάμψη της ζωής πιο φωτεινή. από όσο την αντίκρισε ποτέ ανθρώπινη ματιά, αλλά είναι και μοναδική, εξαιτίας του ότι έμεινε ανοικτή σε άπασες τις αντιθέσεις της ζωής, τις αιωνίως άλυτες, ενώ από τα φοβερώτερα σκοτάδια της ύπαρξης, έδωσε γέννηση στην μεγαλειώδη μορφή της Τραγωδίας.» W. F. Otto {1929)

Wow. Excellent content. I really enjoy book reports; you can’t read all the books yourself. In America you could boast you “took us to school”.

We Are Still Here And Soon As All Pyramid's All Over The World Are In Allinement With The Orion Belt. We Are Gathering In Drosato Central Macedonia

I was very happy to see there's a new video and what you said about nobody asking for the sources made me sad instantly. I'm gonna say it again this channel deserves a lot more publicity!!