The Ice Palace, The Worst Dungeon in A Link to the Past - Dungeon Design in Zelda 

Too bad too; aesthetically, it’s leaps and bounds better than other dungeons. It’s basically the Dark Souls II of dungeons, in that it thinks “challenge” means annoying the hell out of the player.

That "block transfer" puzzle feels like something that would have perfectly worked in a dungeon centered around the Cane of Somaria. The puzzle would be at the start of the dungeon, you'd do it the long way, then after you get the cane you have an easy shortcut. But instead it's at the end of an already long, linear dungeon. That is why I usually do Misery Mire before the Ice Palace.

So, when I first played this game as a kid that final block puzzle stumped me. I had no concept of 3D space being used that way and never thought about what was above the room with the switch. Instead, I backed out, did misery mire, and realized the cane made that puzzle trivial. I then assumed that the order was always meant to be Thieves Town>Mire>Ice and the numbers were a localization mistake.

my problem with kholdstare is that it's dependent on you having enough magic juice to break the ice with your fire rod. I ended up going in without enough and no way to regain it, so i had to accept my fate and let the boss kill me. Which meant I had to leave the dungeon to go get enough magic to kill the first ice dude, then going through this gauntlet again.

one of the frustrating weaknesses of Link to the past and link between worlds dark world dungeons having a not rigid dungeon order is that it cant account for the items you need. i appreciate having freedom in a game where you can technically do any dungeon once you get the Hammer. really, the only reason you MIGHT want to do LTTPs dungeons in the order the game gives you is for the story. in link between worlds, it at least lets you buy the items you need to do the dungeons in order (you can buy and own all of them if you want) but in LTTP, each dungeon can REALLY only account for the item you get in its dungeon. ie, in OOT, the fire temple can account for the bow, hookshot and the megaton hammer, the water temple can account for the bow, megaton hammer, longshot, the spirit temple can account for all your items. in wind waker, the forbidden woods can account for the grappling hook, the deku leaf, and boomerang, the tower of the gods can account for bombs, the bow, the boomerang, the grappling hook. but thats what i like about BOTWs divine beasts and the game giving you the slate. the world and the divine beasts give you the freedom to do whatever you want while you can start with any of them but the characters and world still can lead you to what should be the first/easiest dungeon, still leaving it up to you. all in all, while i appreciate LTTP/LBWs freedom with the dungeon order, i just personally feel like if the order was ALITTLE more rigid, it couldve made more interesting puzzles in its dungeons to let you get the most out of more of you inventory. in the end, we do have to remember that link to the past is only the third game of a 40 year old series, its only natural they couldnt account for everything given what the had to work with at the time. but yeah, wouldve been more painless playing through the annoying dungeons like the ice palace and couldve made more creative puzzles if they were able to incorporate more item usage into LTTPs dungeons.

The Ice Palace is also my least favorite in ALttP, precisely because I had to do these "victory laps" twice, because I pushed the wrong block because I didn't remember that the button is in the lower left of this 4 square hole... You encapsulated perfectly why I am not fond of that dungeon. I wouldn't say it's bad, but I am not a fan.

I hate that push block puzzle! I usually do the swamp dungeon to get the cane first so I can create my own block to hold the switch 😁

this dungeon really grew on me and what is cool is how you can tackle it without the hookshot but you will need to warp back to the entrance, however one big nitpick i have is how the shutter door is needlessly placed here. kholdstare needing magic was another problem but this was fixed in the gba port. you can also get through the dungeon with bombos medallion. the ice physics are not not the best, but they are not that bad.

I don’t really dislike this one after replaying it. Just when it would have gotten annoying to me, it ended. I didn’t mind this block puzzle, because at first the only blocks you can push are wrong ones, and you immediately realize that you need to push one of the other ones

Ok, I agree in your following points: - gateroom is indeed just a timewaster - nobody likes traprooms, check! Where I disagree (and that seems to be a matter of taste): As a metroidfan, I never had a problem with backtracking. In all those dungeonvideos you made very clear that you prefer a different route when there needs to be backtracking. This serves more variety, but also leads you the way where you have to go in a linear fashion. It kinda robbs you from finding out yourself what the next destination is. It's fine when you knew your next destination anyway, but If not, its a less open way to reveal a puzzle of traversing the dungeon. Backtracking is nothing bad in my opinion. It really depends on many factors. Not having a new dungeon item might be disappointing, I can see that after playing all those 3d classic zeldagames, which offer new dungeon items everytime, but I remember how cool it felt to my brother and me to be finally suited in the blue mail. That was indeed a highlight to us. But yeah, of course it doesn't change the gameplay inside of this dungeon, but I always thought that it is instead the firerod , which has its spotlight Here. It wasn't that much necessary in skull woods and much more useful in here. Besides... Were the dungeon items in thieves out, turtle rock, tower of hera or ganons tower that much of a gamechanger in the corresponding dungeons? Alttp was an important game to introduce these dungeon elements to the series, but to that time, dungeons weren't really build around the dungeon item actually. Swamp palace had been the only one, which made perfect use of its dungeon item... the others felt quite flat. Sure, that doesn't make the ice palace better to that concern, but it should be considered to be fair. I liked that you had to use the map to solve the "fall through the floors" Puzzles properly. There arent that many puzzles in this game which made use of interconnecting floors. In this one it means you have to do backtracking again, that's right, but again, you have to think about the right spot to drop. Nobody leads you there, it's Up to you to find out, no magical backtracking loop that robbs you from finding out yourself. Where I totally agree: Backtracking a third time is too much and can be frustrating. But in defend of this puzzle... It's not in 3D, you cannot look down and they were not able to improve the map sadly. But yes , I understand, that's not the best solution. Ok, too much writing 🙈

I actually had to enter the dungeon a second time after accidentally entering the boss room without looting the big chest. Very annoying.

I've conceptualized this dungeon as two areas. First a gauntlet of danger to wear you down if and when you have the misfortune of dying deeper in the dungeon. Eventually it branches into a maze of one-way paths, so wrong turns are punishing. Some of these paths are essentially traps which force you back to the gauntlet, do not pass Go, do not collect 200 rupees. The result is wandering in circles while slowly getting worn down. I'm really glad I beat Kholdstare first try as a kid (bombos medallion makes quick work of the first phase), because I don't know the next time I would have reached the boss room again.

When I played this game I would go to dungeon 6 to get the cane that made blocks appear and go to dungeon 5.

I remember coming into this dungeon with the Cane of Somaria to nullify the infamous block puzzle. Which is weird, because even as a kid, I was always pedantic about doing things in order.

I was not a fan of this one either for largely the reasons you laid out here. I dislike how you can run out of magic and get stuck against the ice enemies. When I was younger, I ended up doing Level 6 first to get the Red Cane that can create blocks, just to make the final block puzzle in here less of a issue. Though when you break it down in here, it doesn't seem like that big of a issue. Good video as always, thanks Burgerson!

Awesome, time to grab a snack and drink. 🥘 🍹

Hot take - the compass in ALttP is a useless item. It only shows the boss location, but with one exception (Thieves Town) the location is always as deep into the dungeon as possible. If you see a 7 floor dungeon, you just assume the boss is on that 7th floor. And with a map it's pretty easy to see which rooms you haven't been to (and without one, having a vague boss location doesn't actually help guide your immediate direction). Link's Awakening fixes this by giving it the sound effect for secrets; until then, I would have rather replaced all the compass chests with 20 rupees or something

I definitely agree that the dungeon item should have been something that helped with puzzles. One of the things I loved about Zelda dungeons is using the item to solve unique puzzles especially when you get it later on to solve puzzles you couldn't before and get to new areas, I always felt a sense of progress when I was able to do that.

Oooh this was an interesting take to watch. I always had fond memories of the ice palace (probably cuz of the intrigue of a vertical dungeon in an old Zelda game), but looking at it critically, I 100% agree with most of your complaints and grievances here. ESPECIALLY the block puzzle which… I didn’t even realise was a puzzle cuz I just happened to have the cane of somaria before entering this place.

OK, now Iam surprised... This is my favorite dungeon from Alttp next to the swamp palace :/ I loved its interconnection and designed floors.

These ones from Alttp are the last I have to see, then I got them all. Cool you mixed the Totk Soundtrack in. But I guess, that this video will be the one I disagree with you most. We do seem to share the same taste most of the time and focus on similar aspects, which make a dungeon good or not, but surprisingly this time, we got totally contrary opinions in this one. I will write a second comment after I watched your video, but I agree that it has its flaws. The ice physics in front of the stairs comes instantly into my mind 😅 Concerning the other slippery floors, I think that the challenge for manoevering around can be frustrating for players, whereas I appreciate the difficulty for its intense experience. I like zeldagames to be more difficult and challenging and hate to feel overpowered in the later dungeons. This is the 5th dungeon in the dark world, the 8th one in the whole game. It's the only dungeon I know with that many floors leading downwards starting from the top, which is really cool. Getting deeper and deeper into the freezing abyss made me always feel nervous and anxious when I had been younger. And despite its many floors, it also has a mindtwisting headscraching puzzle , which interconnects many rooms and floors. The rest is quite linear , that's right, but ok to me. As I said before, getting stuck can be a really good experience, when a puzzle follows logical rules and that's the case here (when you ignore that its weird that you can move a block only one spot further 😅 ). The boss is underwhelming, just like in misery mire, but I don't know if I would put the focus on a boss in such an early ... offshoot? Is that the correct english word? Well ok, lets see how you rant about this dungeon, which has - in my opinion - a lot of character, standing out a bit more than dungeons like misery mire, skull woods or the desert palace... I bet you will criticize that there is no proper dungeon item. 😁

I can't wait till you do Ganon's Tower, and discuss the green stylized Triforce decorations in it!

Oh, this is absolutely a skill issue. The challenge of the dungeon is the navigation, because it's not just a loop. That's why you get the map so late. Having to do it over several times is a matter of failing that challenge and having to brute force it. Figuring out the block at the end is only a guess if you don't treat it as a puzzle and try to figure it out.

I had the same thought because i have no big picture of how the dungeon looks like. But when i played it several times and i knew the dungeon by heart, i knew how great of dungeon and a master piece it is. This is my opinion at least.

Man I always love Ice themed dungeons. I love the look of this dungeon, too bad about the missed potential here. The map and compass should definitely have been swapped!

13:26 Nice dad pun 10/10 lol

I'm honestly excited to get back to dungeon design!! I've been loving your other videos too, but there's something comforting in consistency 😅 But honestly bro, you know it's a skill issue 😜 jk, jk! Compass before map is so weird 😝 oof guessing the block was the worst honestly... Doing the dungeon over and over wasn't the best! At least the boss looks like yummy cotton candy 😋🧁 lmao the dad jokes for dayyssssss! FASHION 💯 The hammer technique on frozen enemies is fun! Well, I'm sorry you had to complain so much about the dungeon, but it was deserved imho! Another great video with great analysis and contextual proof to back it up 👍🏼 excited for the next! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

As a kid, the block puzzle was difficult. If you actually explore the dungeon, it’s braindead easy to solve. I’m not a big fan of the double loop, but this was Nintendo’s second real attempt at a proper “theme” for a dungeon, after the swamp palace. I personally think the dungeon is fantastic. Yes, the moving the block to access a door and having to move it again is fundamentally flawed in this game, but it was the first time they tried it. They made it better later on in future games. 🤷🏻‍♂️

This is a dungeon that is infinitely more satisfying in randomizers. Having the Cane of Somaria early lets you skip the third lap you have to take through the dungeon and different glitches can be utilized to sequence break it even more. And this is a dungeon that simply begs to be broken.

Idk if anyone else has said this but I wonder if the boss was made so easy because of the ridiculous slog of the dungeon.

I only have to disagree slightly with the take on the boss. As a kid back in 1992, I struggled with most of the bosses including this one. And this one may not have the worst attacks and patterns, but what it does do is hit like an absolute truck. The damage done by contact with the eyeballs is really crazy, and the amount of lag in that boss fight makes your controls feel muddy at best. If you get pinned between the eyes you're just toast, especially if you managed to get there without finding the Blue Mail first like I'm pretty sure I did the first time. It felt brutal and I always used up all my potions trying to survive in the dungeon itself. Now these days with experience it doesn't seem nearly as bad of course - though, try having it be the first boss you need to fight with 3 hearts in a randomizer and that feeling comes back suddenly.

The version of the block puzzle that I know is the simplified one from the GBA version of the game. Even with that nerf, I still hate the Ice Palace.

In my Opinion, Link to the Past tends to fall off a cliff at this point of the game, the Onslaught of Ice Palace, Then Misery Mire, followed by dreaded Turtle Rock, and Ganon's Tower, It REALLY kills the game for me.

Ouf yeah this Dungeon is rough. The multi-room pushblock puzzle has haunted me since my childhood 😂 last time I replayed ALttP a year or two ago though, that's not what got me. I somehow managed to not get a key that's hidden under a certain pot in an icy room, and I did the loop like 56 times, going insane about what I was missing, never once thinking about the stupid pots. In the end I gave up and checked a guide and I was so salty about the solution 😂😂😂

Yeah, this is definitely my least favorite dungeon in the game, but I don’t necessarily hate it. It just kind’ve feels thrown together, like they designed it last and just ran out of ideas. Loving this series btw! I’ve watched them all but I’m just now getting caught up on the ALTTP dungeons.

If ALttP had to number the dungeons, they really, really, REALLY should have swapped Misery Mire to 5 and Ice Palace to 6, because heck this dungeon, seriously. On repeat plays you know to go get Cane of Somaria first, but on most people's first playthrough they're going to go with what the game itself recommends right there on the map, and that is a cursed mistake in this case.

I love this series

Actually they heard the players and changed the infamous block puzzle in the GBA remake: Snes (at 7:00): ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-YfHUOxyiAg8.html Gba (at 11:17): ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-TX0Cz5KmNE8.html Still a very unperfect dungeon, but less frustrating. Glad to see your dungeon series back!

Fantastic

YES let’s go I love this series

10:50 I usually cheese this puzzle with the cane of Somaria

This is the only dungeon in Zelda that I hate. I hate this place so bad it often stops playthroughs of this game dead in the water for me. It's not that it's confusing or a well designed challenge it just takes so long to get through it and your controls are messed up and if you die you have to do it all over again just UGH I'm so glad they never made a level this annoying ever again

Very based video, I don't think you complained enough to be honest. This place is just a combat gauntlet on ice or sometimes moving floors with spike traps that you have to go through 3 times, capped off with an annoying puzzle and terrible boss. The item feels like it really sholdn't be in a dungeon either.

First RU-vid video that I ever watched on Premier. It feels cool. But yeah, this dungeon is AWFUL! Especially if you die or leave...

I rage quit on the GBA version of this and never finished the game…heard the last two were even worse though.

Too bad they dropped the ball, glad it seems they learned from it anyways

Hello friend 😊

I believe this was the dungeon that made me quit the game

I felt a payoff from the dungeon item because the penguins become extremely weak.

Nice

Bro said coldstare is easy. Try it with 7 hearts master sword and green mail and let's see how easy it is 😅.

Ohh early birthday present thanks. Can be rote in the loop if you don't get the hsmf if od the loop. Als o the was the first Zelda dungeon baby nr realised yu ca bypasss sdre the gbavtsjkn kill he emoj

you don't need to say you played dread mode. it slows the pace of the video going off topic. Just ignore the trolls.