The Immoral Instruments 

Caleb Joseph You’re very good at organizing your ideas for discussion in a linear and comprehensible way. It’s a really admirable skill and I wish I had it.

Daisey Gabriella Ho I can help u if u want

dRaAaAaaaAgG thEM

This was a fun video! I've got some tea with receipts you may be interested in... For those who do not know just how EXTENSIVE her fanfic plagiarism was, I'm going to post a comment I've made in a few other videos. For reference, it isn't normal to copy and paste long passages into your fanfics, I say this as a former fic writer myself and as someone who is now a professional writer. She did this frequently. To further how not ok this is, she made a career from how famous her fics were, fics that were largely plagiarized - it's a big deal. She made money off her plagiarism, even though that plagiarism was only in her fics - it was her popularity from her plagiarized fics that attracted the attention of agents. She became a famous writer off the backs of struggling writers who received little to no credit. Here's the comment I've posted elsewhere: Hello! There's a lot more to this series and its background than most people know. Cassandra Clare (formerly Cassandra Claire) used to be a well-known plagiarist in the Harry Potter fandom - for her fanfiction. I'm not sure if there's any proof of plagiarism with her original fiction, but I don't believe so. Anyway. So, most of the sites depicting Cassie Clare's plagiarism are down, unfortunately. The most extensive compilation of her plagiarism can be found on an old website called Bad Penny, which no longer exists. You CAN, however, find it on the WayBack Machine. I actually found here: ​web.archive.org/web/20130413060527/www.journalfen.net/community/bad_penny/8985.html#cutid1 It's extremely informative and very interesting. Please note that it only talks about the plagiarism in her fanfiction, not her original fiction (as it came out before her book premier, and I don't believe there's any proof she plagiarized with her original fiction) - and it's a lot more extensive than she lets on. You can see even more horribleness that Cassie and her closest friends were up to through the MsScribe Saga (although that was mostly MsScribe, one of Cassie's friends, and the one mostly at fault for not calling out MsScribe sooner was Cassie's closest Internet buddy, Heidi - a lawyer who'd threaten to sue anyone who **breathed** plagiarism and Cassandra Clare in the same sentence). The MsScribe Saga is still up on Live Journal through the journal of someone named Charlotte Lennox, however most of the comments and background were on Bad Penny (which no longer exists). The WayBack Machine link for the MsScribe Saga on Bad Penny - also a fascinating read, if only as a character study - is here: ​web.archive.org/web/20120529212816/www.journalfen.net/users/charlottelennox/ Have fun

Wheel of time is a series i read every year. I was never impressed with mortal instruments. They were funny but not great. I am someone who believes strongly in death of the author. If you want a great series to check out see the wheel of time its amazing and i cannot wait for the show.

“Which is upsetting to think about” 😂

the dankest meme honestly though

the dankest meme Lol

Caleb just shitting on all of us ugly hoes

Baby Caleb was adorable. Lol

every time i see baby caleb i want to cry bc hes so cute & sweet he reminds me so much of my little brother :'''')))

Wow... that’s awful

That's pathetic of her

Is that really true? That's shit of her to do

Maybe being late is a thing of hers because I went to a signing with her and holly black this past March just before they shut everything down and she was 2 hours late. They had us wait in the rain and gave no explanation. She didn’t make fun of anyone. There was a booktuber there that was kind of mean/standoffish too

So we're just gossiping fake bullshit like a couple of 13 yr olds huh

Voldemort and Umbridge got me. That would be terrifying

@@Hana-ty7kt more or less terrifying than Bellatrix and Voldemort? because THAT is canon

@@Niyati99 After all of this time, I have still refused to read The Cursed Child. In my head canon, there are only 7 books.

@@Hana-ty7kt we all know that cursed child was just a fever dream

Fairly certain at least part of the reason was to annoy the guys from sugar quill or however that forum was called. Maybe it was the gryffindor tower people? One of those old places anyway.

I NOTICED THAT TOO

Omg I was about to comment this 😂

😂😂😂

Looool

huh, what where

It made it better. I like this better than the meme transitions.

Yea

The incest was uncomfortable (especially in CoA) but I just thought that, like Caleb said, was to show how evil Valentine is. Like he's messing with his young children and making them feel guilty.

I never read the books (sorry I’m late to the conversation 😭) but based off the like movie I thought like oh no it just said that they are but it’s probably just valentine messing with their heads and they aren’t actually siblings because he’s evil. Finding out through the video that it was inspired by Ron and Ginny fan fiction is so gross and I’m glad I never read them 😭

Dauntless. He said dauntless. And i agree :)

kousetsuhana haha thx!!

Ugh I really feel that. Fuck snapchat for not letting me change my sad sad username with “dauntless” in it

I feel so attacked. I was that kid who did shit like that.

i have a very distinct memory of being at my year 7 camp and saying something about being dauntless when we were doing a high ropes course 😔✊

The incest fetishism was the ONE thing I knew about the series, next to the controversial handling of a sexual assault scene, so that effectively kept me away for years.

I don't remember that scene in City of Ashes tbh. But in City of Glass Jace thinks he loves Clary because he has demon blood and he is a monster, so he kinda goes like "FUCK IT" and wants to be with Clary. But Clary was trying very hard to not be romantically involved with Jace after City of Bones. I never found it THAT perturbing because I read the series a year ago and I already knew they weren't sibilings. At some parts it was uncomfortable but I knew the truth, and I wasn't there for Clary and Jace (I love Simon so much and I only cared about what happened to him even if I had to read the Clace scenes which are one of my least favorite relationships)

@@Risbarb isn't incest problematic too??

@@Risbarb it is equally serious because most sexual assault cases are incestuous

Yes because most cases involving consenting adults partaking in incest is from a manipulative power play in which individual has more power over the other and uses this power as a coping mechanism that results from trauma. Both are horrible. I’ve had many friends who were not consenting as children and who were assaulted so I’m very bothered by your previous comments about how we have to teach that incest is logical. Sorry I can’t support that claim because no one who has consented to do that is married happily and dealing with trauma from their own actions to participate in sexual behavior with a family member.

I always forget he's my brother's age until he mentions it and it weirds me out only a little bit

Wait... this guy is only three years older than me. I think that this is the closest RU-vidr in terms of age that I watch. This is weird. I remember when every RU-vidr I watched was on old status to my young thought process. I remember when 18 was so far away but now it’s only three years. Holy crap someday I will be the same age as adult famous people. Shit someday I will be an adult.

@@iridescent_skies and you'll be thinking ''Shit I'm an adult'' everyday

I was -1.

In the year 2004 when I was -3

I was literally thinking the same thing while watching the video. What if she wanted to have them be actual siblings and the publisher said yikes, we can't do that so they made her put in the twist of HA they're not actually related phew .... pretty fucked up to think about

I've read A Song of Ice and Fire I don't read the incest in anyway that supposed to be celebrated, the Lannisters read entirely of toxicity and control (Jamie's entire arc is about spliting apart from Cersei) even in the case of the Targaryens the bloodline was incestuous and even that had terrible consequences across all the history he is written, it's portrayed in a historical way and even in the fictional world of Westeros people go "big yikes" with the Lannisters incest. They are accepting of cousins relationships to a degree wish isn't entirely out place. There's a lot of critiques I have about George RR Martin's work but incest being a thing isn't one of them

@@dia.96 i know that babe i was just joking. i'm saying she must have thought "ugh now people like incest"

@@sabrina.lnd95 i really think that was the case

i won't speak much on the cousin thing because in my country is quite normal

the dankest meme SAME

Same. It sucked for me.

That was my Vietnam War flashbacks

Ugh I was so depressed in seventh grade

Grade 7 was my best year in high school, grade 8 however...I don't think it was possible for a person to be more anxious and self-loathing :/

Yo, wtf. But it was a compliment in a strange way.

Akfjakkaka why would she block you for that, thats so petty and strange imo

My thought is that since she would profit from the show, comments giving it a negative light in any way at such a critical time would be a no-no (if not from her, then from her agency or whatever).

I love getting blocked by celebrities lol

What the fuuuuck

she wrote that shit when she was twenty fucking EIGHT?!?!! GROWN ASS WOMAN LMFAO WTH

embarrassing

Hinny: A normal, healthy relationship. Her: We don't want that. Here's some incest.

And one that's actually sincere

clari-tea if you will

@@imow1383 ok then, Clary-tea

Clare & Tea

Holy shit

She is the Anne Rice of YA

YOU are one interesting individual, can't you start a youtube channel and show us your dissertation?😕

@@erikaalejandra1710 agreed

Just to be clear we want a link to the dissertation as soon as you're done

Katertot8895 holy shit i never thought about it that way but youre right oof

that's kinda gross. I just read the Scrolls of Red Magic and bei g parabatais was mentioned a lot by Alec... now I kinda view that different then before and even though I love Magnus and Alec, every time Alec mentions Jace I get uncomfortable

Agree with basically everything you said. All of the incest or sort of incest is really gross in the books. Clary&Jace (even if this was a red hering) Clary and Jonathan, sort of, atleast one sided. But I can kinda give this a pass because Jonathan is f-ed up. And Jace and Alec, while they are not related it´s still sort of weird to have a crush on your adoptive brother, even if it would be technically fine. But I really just want to overlook this and appreciate the world and characters despite their author being... like that. Often authors turn out to be a bit.... ehhhhh. Like I used to love Harry Potter, but Rowling constantly adding tidbits and retconning stuff kinda ruined the series for me, even though I used to love that world just like I love the Shadowhunters world

Beny i agree that the incest parts are honestly disgusting but its not like alec and jace were brought up as brother from a very young age (i believe they 10 or 12) and in one of the stories in the ghosts of the shadowmarket, its hinted that alec had a crush on jace from the moment they met - which seems to me an understandable reaction from a young boy just discovering things about himself when he meets a boy his age (possibly for the first time since there were no other families in new york and the lightwoods were in lowkey exile). I haven't read red scrolls of magazine however so i guess the way alec talks about jace in that book maybe particularly disturbing.

like yeahhh wooo gay rights BUT NOT WHEN IT'S INCESTT

Maya Givens I wanted the pic to go with early 2000s “I was a baby” - I was waiting for it, man.

The Immortal Enobies

Wouldn't surprise me

👀 I'm listening

Wait... You may be up to something 👀👀👀

Oh.my.god

i don't know whether to laugh or cry at this

Ohhhh no. I remember being given volume 1 of that manga to borrow from a friend in high school. After I read it, I felt dirty just having it on my person. They didn't want it back, and I just threw it out.

What little memory I have of that manga is basically me getting pissed off at Rosiel for every appearance of his. Heck, I hated him even more than Griffith and THAT is saying something.

​@@ortezac.5339 I've never read that manga but I've read Berserk and goddamn he has to be literal scum if you hate him more than Griffith lol

ugh girl definitely watched vampire knght

yeah..

EXACTLY

she's also told someone on twitter that her favorite couple from The Vampire Diaries is Stefan/Damon (they're brothers)

Omggg seriously what the fuckkkk??!!!

The biggest yikes of all

we can't because you're right

and because izzy was gorgeous 😂

100% right. The ENTIRE reason I watched the show at all. Because I could not get over how much they changed. Would just watch Malec clips on YT. XD

you aren't wrong. but eventually i just stopped altogether. it was too CRINGEY ok the special effects were really bad too.

lmao my mom recommended it to me when it just came out and i was like 13/14. i had only watched pretty little liars before this so my standards for tv were pretty low. (in my opinion) season 1 is laughable but season 2 and 3 are actually good

I think it's both 😕

A little bit of option A, a little bit of option B

OMG I HAD THIS SAME THOUGHT OMG!!!!

they were KISSING AND SLEEPING IN THE SAME BED???? WH A T

Oh no Lady Midnight is like my favourite YA book, dont ruin it for me 😅💀

Same i've been reading those books for 8 years or somthing and my reading taste has changed so much, so I am just reading them as a guilty pleasure xD

That's definitely a mood 😅 tbh that's why i prefere the older books. They're definitely (very) flawed but god /damn/ that nostalgia!

I started reading the shadowhunter books them when i was around 13 i think and i loved them like i loved most of the books i read when i was around that age. I just finished LoS and QoAaD and they were just okay, i think i just grew out of reading these books and i didn’t plan on reading anymore of her books but at the same time i wanna know what happens to the characters in the upcoming 2 series so idk i might download them from somewhere on my kindle, i definitely won’t buy them. I also had the sudden urge to watch the shadowhunter tv series after stopping in the middle of the second season (i couldn’t endure it anymore).... and yeah it was just bad and i’m not even gonna try. The movie was kinda better but still bad, might watch it for guilty pleasure tho.

I read the original trilogy when I was in high school and really liked it, the infernal devices in college and really liked that too. Now I’m thirty and trying to get through the second 3 of the mortal instruments, and it has been an absolute slog to get through because I hate the way Cassandra Clare writes, but damn the story is interesting enough that I want to read them all. It’s an absolute dilemma and it hurts my soul.

Interesting~ I read city of bones in the midst of my young teen fantasy phase and I didn't enjoy it at all and felt no desire to continue the series. I love me some guilty pleasure reading but this series never captured my fantasy loving soul.

When I was in middle school I loved Hush Hush which many people hate honestly if someone hated on me for liking it I would've taken it personally and felt really bad.

@@jackystar5099 me exactly XD looking back tho, that book was a big fat yikes

Another one is “WhAt’S a NicE GirL lIKe YoU ReaDinG tHosE ShiTty BoOks”

@@jackystar5099 Lmao I've just read the sequel to hush hush and have been considering making a youtube podcast reviewing it and other books but I don't know If I should!? Idk i've wanted to review books forever but worry I'm not charismatic enough

@@justperpetuallybothered3474 Just do it if you feel like it, doesn't hurt to try it out

That's not a good thing lol. Maybe that's why it flopped.

I agree! It was not bad. Sure stuff irritated me, but the show was a joke for me.

yeah same, it was a little boring and badly written but i didn't hate it as much as the tv show lmao

my problem was more about the actors. somebody please tell me i'm not the only one who was acutely aware of how strange lily collin's was breathing

Agreeeee... ya the movie changed a lot from the books and some of the acting and effects were cringy but the actors had SUCH good chemistry irl and the atmosphere of the movie was so much better than the show... the show is just.... yikes...

The 14th doctor better be ginger

Well my protagonist has purple hair... not sorry

As someone who plans on marrying my redheaded boyfriend, I agree

Being a gay woman, tall Ginger woman are... Oof they're amazing

If I look at the new Little Mermaid Movie: No, apparently we ARE not allowed to have Gingers....

This comments really old now but as someone who really likes both book series I fully feel you with how you feel but I cant help but love them

@@lovers807 It's so true though. Like I have a love hate relationship with both book series.

I had to comment when I saw this. I loved Twilight when I was in middle school and I also loved the House of Night series at the same time. Upon ... You know, growing up, I looked back on them and they were awful but I still love them as part of my childhood 😭

@@thxwanderer Fam it's so true. My friends and I love clowning on them now, but they still have a special place in my heart. Now we all just go Bella was a lesbian and Edward is a twink and all that kind of stuff.

Yooo I forgot about the house of night series I loooooooved it

I've only read TMI and TID, but is she really? While reading CoHF I noticed she had a lot of similarities to Jace (the bravest, lost her family, blond, amber eyes, even down to being left handed) and I only started liking Jace in book 6. I also didn't like CoHF epilogue, so if that's the case I'm going to jump back in time and read GotSM and Chain of Gold.

@@sodapopp4367 chain of gold is amazing!! you won’t regret reading it

She was inspired by Colleen hoover!

BrendaFOBRocks The issue there is that family already had a lot of incest to keep the blood pure so it’s not like she started that

@@phoenixtracy9875 i hadn't considered that, but tbh considering all of the incest Clare has written I still think its weird AF.

Difference is, Rowling wrote the incest as the “obligatory” thing based on real world history (royalty, racial supremacy). From what I understand about Clare (haven’t read her stuff yet), she seem to fetishize it?

Junjun Jamore I’m pretty sure she does

what the

I think that is her nickname for Cassandra since she still use it to this day. She uses it interchangeably. She is a big fan of the books though. She read all of the books and tends to answer a lot of interview questions about the books compared to the rest of the cast besides Alberto (who plays Simon and also read all of the books).

get out

Got em

Now the broken blinking light is ominous.

wait.. what? she made a post for specifically for incest recs?

@@Risbarb This... I don't get it. It's a kink, it's not that crazy. Like how is this any different from GoT or anything?

@@Risbarb uhhhhh,,,,,,

@@Risbarbyou do realize its stigmitized for a reason right? family bonds usually come with power dynamics and it can deeply psychologically affect u. comparing it to homosexuality is just meh

My problem with this is that it's a common thing to explore in fantasy and fiction. She's recommending other stories? What is the problem? There is none. It's cool to have a personal boundary with certain topics in fiction but I'm against superimposing your boundary on other people and then thinking they are somehow bad.

You're not wrong. That's cheep and gross tension she wrote to glorify her kink to her impressionable audience

Me too

goodness me, i had to practically fast read through everything just to get to malec scenes. In the lengthy series that i almost gave up on, they're the only ones that made me push through. Their first public kiss in city of glass and their break up in lost souls was 💔

I was planning on reading the mortal instruments. But after watching this video i dont i can. But i really wanna read the infernal devices. Can i read it without reading the first series or will i not understand?

fatima A you can totally read TID without TMI!

19Isa09 okay thank you so much. I really wanted to read the TID

I agree but honestly hearing everything about her kinda makes me dislike her whole book series as well

The only books I enjoyed were the Bane Chronicles, Tales at the Shadowhunter Academy, and An Illustrated History of Notable Shadowhunters tbh. But that's all. Otherwise, the trilogies are all but reduced, reused, and recycled plotlines.

eziraphale You already paid for them, you’re not supporting her by just owning them.

@@WhaleManMan I second that. I've even bought books by authors I don't want to support used so that I can still read them but instead I'm supporting the charity, small shop, or family selling them instead of the author.

literally me

Give them to goodwill.

We love a self reflective kweeng

The Mortal Instruments series was a big fat "meh" to me (but a certain hard pass for the incest). Infernal Devices was great (a big improvement; still my favorite series out of the Shadowhunter works). Dark Artifices was good (I feel like some characters were underdeveloped, but then again, there's another series coming up). The Last Hours is far from completion, but Chain of Gold was great, too. I feel like she vastly improved and solidified her style over the years. Am I a Cassandra Clare fan? Absolutely not. But am I a Shadowhunter series fan? Kinda. The Mortal Instruments series is easily the worst one (and imo, not an accurate representation of the series; I have yet to find a reviewer that judges CC from later books and not the old ones).

@@phisograph i used to like the books, but i gave up after queen of air and darkness because i just realized that i didnt like these books after all and i mostly read them becaus ei liked them in middle school,,, i agree that she improved but tbh, its still way below my standards😅 and cc is just a terrible person, so theres that

@@lenap319 I respect your opinion. Honestly, I'm just reading The Last Hours series, then I'm done with it forever. I love the Victorian setting, and frankly, I'm losing interest as I become older & more involved with school and stuff. It's the same with Rick Riordan's books, come to think of it.

@@phisograph yeah, its opinion based obviously,,, i wont shame anyone who likes them, i just wish people were more aware of the problematic aspects,,,, Also, i still really enjoy rick riordans books, even now that i am older. The original series is still the best

My friends kept pestering me to read Clare's books since they know I love Fantasy. So when I read the first chapter about Clary, my immediately thought 'She might be a Mary Sue and this best friend is totally gonna be in love with her or some shit'. Turns out I was right.

Yes!! It‘s honestly insane to me that I‘m only now realizing how deeply I care about all the books I read in that time of my life. Like I would literally read at ANY given moment and it was mostly these YA series. Now I love commentary videos about them and their dumb plotlines, but I would reread them at any given moment just for that little reminder of a safe space.

I felt this comment omg

Mary Treaty Same, haven’t had real friends since the third grade.

It's been over twenty years for me and I still hate everyone from 7th grade. I hate myself from seventh grade as well.

7th grade was when i realized all my friends were fake, got bullied and then developed depression. i still am depressed to this day lmao

Ouch I felt that

You might want to do an internet clean up, pretty sure there's a way to delete a bunch of old comments at once but I don't remember how

That you feel this way is a great sign. It means you're growing!

Sometimes facebook pulls up posts I did like 7-8yrs ago and I just cringe myself to death.

Agree!!

Yes.

and Jem!

It's Cassandra Clare cyberbullying him

@@Carrottastic 😂

Cassandra Clare: TrAIToR

Sarcasm, dry humor, and brutal honesty. All he needs now is a numbered list.

@@swimmyswim417 and a post credit scene!

This is the first time I've found someone who knows Jenny in a comment section. I send you all the Porg love in the world.

kousetsuhana and the _____ bad

@@meghan______669 _incest bad_

truly the dark ages fr 😬

yeah same. i read tid first and i really liked it, but i couldn't get through tmi.

natwixterthan18 and if you look back and think about it, Alex’s crush on Jace, his parabatai, and with Jace frequently saying “you’re my brother,” gives off the same feeling. To me, anyway.

Yikes, I never saw it that way. I haven't finished TDA and I don't think I will now because my thoughts have changed and I don't even care that much. It's been months since I read LoS anyway.

Don't come for my ship Emma and Julian!😀I wouldn't say that their relationship is like an incest,beacause I've actually had asked myself multiple times ,,What whould happen if two parabatai fall in love?" In the books is said that Emma had her bedroom on the other side of the institute as a clarification that she is not part of the Blackthorn family. Also they needed to have that close platonic like relationship between each other to become parabatai

@@rainbowpopcorns1325 even if it's your ship, it's described in a way that makes it feel like it's a placeholder for an incestual relationship. Throughout the series, parabatai are described as siblings to the other. Siblings. Even if you did wonder, it does raise questions given the emphasized nature of what a parabatai relationship is and supposed to be.

@@Rubbish1313 Honestly to me it's never seemed like as you say a placeholder for incestual relationship.I guess it's because I adore the ,,friends to lovers" relationships,because I think that you need to know someone completely before loving them.Anyway let's get to the point. You say that throughout the series the parabatai are described as siblings.Well,it is describe multiple times as love deeper and stronger than that of siblings,even of self-love.I can quote if you want. Plus as it said in Lady Midnight parabatai can have sex,if they do not have romantic feelings for each other.

I am pretty sure that’s just a coincidence. Those two aren’t even plot related.

@@elainamcclendon5593 There are similarities though - both infernal devices series and book have part-human, part mechanism/tech creatures (automatons vs stalkers). TMI and Mortal Engines both have villains called Valentine where a question of parentage is part of the mystery; badass red-headed teenage girl protagonists; there are other little similarities but personally I just always just feel sad for Philip Reeve when now apparently when people go in to bookshops to ask for his books like Mortal Engines or Infernal Devices, they get directed to the shadowhunter stuff instead :(

@@MonnyArcade I am so sorry. I see your point now. You are right.

Didnt we all

ofc yes.

Yup

lol same, but I got into the entire show

*Inhales* AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

redplanet _ you made me notice it and now i can’t unsee it

It's asking for help for some reason

Idk why but I’m sort of having the opposite reaction to it Like it’s cozy or something Reminds me of sleepy classrooms and getting lost in books

Same

But then you’re supporting her still with your coint

Get the books for a secondhand book store soooo your not supporting her directly.

amber proctor haha that's what i did i started discovering about her books so i managed to collect the series spine art version. Now its only the matter of reading it...

@@amberproctor3996 or download it illegally...

RIGHT! And how both of them are red heads

「catstrologian」 I agree with your whole comment, especially the middle paragraph 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

What quotes has she plagiarized?

I think thats true for TMI but the rest of them are good not gonna lie

Nikita lovesbooks tid is one of my fav series i just ignore that cc wrote it

Infernal Devices are a class unto itself. I will never get tired of relistening to them!

😂😂😂😂

His parents love him.

Also he was born after 2000

@@WarKeineAbsicht so much more likely this. These days parents are on Facebook posting literal pictures of their kids poop & their B+ homework assignments - "well, they tried!"

after months of seeing the word ACOTAR I just realized it's an acronym for A Court Of Thorns And Roses

disgusted jhope the funny thing is that criminal minds episode is based off of an irl case I believe

I LOVE criminal minds and when I rewatched this episode like a while after I had also read the cellar I just... couldn't deal

disgusted jhope idk if any of y’all have ever read Room but it’s similar

@@Risbarb How is incest not problematic?? It's also not something private she literally wrote it in a fanfiction lmao

Lol, she wrote that fanfic from 27-33 (2000-06)

@@Risbarb I honest to god can't believe that we've reached the point as a liberal culture where we need to explain to (presumably) grown-ass adults why fucking your siblings is wrong. We need to bring kink-shaming back.

Does the fact that incest is wrong, make reading and writing about incest wrong? Even if you write about it being good? Does she?

Lis no offense but equating writing about gay ppl, polyamory, and poc with things like incest isn’t a great look.

My personal favorite was getting to book 3, and them having a make out session while still believing they were siblings. Even knowing they weren't actually siblings it made me gag. Even better she connected with Sebastian, kissed him too, only to find out he was her real brother. That's when I knew I wouldn't be reading any more of her books.

@@charityyoder9028 oh my god i didn't know about that. thank god i haven't let myself read these series. it's kinda twisted if you think about it. an adult writing about teenagers having incestuous relationships? nope nope nope.

lucia. p i agree, i read the first 2 books when i was 12 and the incest thing made me so uncomfortable, like why is this grown adult exposing young teens to her weird fantasies ://

ewwww 💀

Sameee

I agree but I think it's a bit more complicated than that because an author's work is heavily influenced by their beliefs. Take for example Dracula, a foreigner from a distant land who invades Britain and turns good women into evil sexualized monsters, or house elves in Harry Potter who enjoy slavery. These ideas don't come from nowhere, even if it's unconscious

Do y'all remember when everyone used to make Clace edits with that song 'Clarity?' Those were innocent times...

Thank you for mentioning MZB being a sexual abuser, because I had no idea. The name rang a bell because one of her books was on my tbr, and wow I’m so glad to remove it and never waste any time on her work, ever. I’m so angered and sickened to learn what she and her husband did, I could scream.

@@ceilidancr and to think her kids felt they wouldn't be believed. It makes me so sad. I read a piece her son wrote about the situation and he dissociated in the piece to write it. I pray peace for those kids. I'm glad inbound help you be better informed.

Fandomwank might be the drama community you’re talking about and it was SO great as long as you weren’t personally tied up in it lolol. The ones about CC were so well documented that I’m not sure how people can sweep that part of her history under the rug.

@@mrsb50 I loved Fandomwank, and yeah it was massively well documented. I think one of the group's I was in way back when had an issue and even they were like "wtf, this is a community that's usually chill." CC is just 🤐🤐🤐