That'll happen on any gun when you focus on trying to get a good trigger feel out of a duty gun. You will never have a duty gun with an amazing 2011 trigger while keeping it drop safe, and you will never have a drop safe gun with an amazing trigger, they are exclusive to eachother. The components that dictate 90% of trigger feel are your firing pin spring, and your firing pin block. You can lighten your firing pin spring, and you can lighten or totally remove your firing pin block on any handgun to get a lighter, smoother pull. I dont think i have to explain to you what that does to the gun's capabilities as a duty gun.
@@AB1138- Sub 4 pound triggers and amazing 1911/2011 trigger are not the same thing. A stock glock can be 4.5 pounds. Regardless, you cannot beat physics, there are no exceptions to this rule. The two components that add trigger weight are your trigger spring and your firing pin safety springs. The reason 2011’s have amazing triggers is because series 70 1911’s do not have firing pin safeties, but series 80’s do. The tradeoff for having any kind of firing pin safety is a worse trigger. There is zero way around this problem, because you have to have a part of your trigger physically push up on the safety, which is what causes grit and travel in the first place on a trigger. No way around this, absolutely ZERO. The way most guns get sub 4 pound triggers is having very light firing pin safety springs. Glocks, Caniks, p320’s, and pretty much every gun where you can get a spring kit to make the trigger better will include a firing pin safety spring, because that is pretty much half of the battle. To get a lighter trigger pull, you have to make a trigger more and more unsafe to drop. That’s the only way. You cross a threshold around the 3 pound mark where any striker fire gun is going to be at the bleeding edge of safety.
Many people eschew the 1911 for its lack of capacity. While it wouldn’t be my first choice as a GTW pistol, it is still a viable self defense weapon. The #1 reason for running out of ammo is missing. In my hands, a 1911 makes good hits in a hurry. YMMV. A series 70 1911’s drop safety can be enhanced with a titanium firing pin and an extra power spring. It’s not foolproof but it’s an improvement.
I'd say USPSA, IPSC and IDPA is like comparing MMA to military combatives. The MMA fighter is a highly specialized hand to hand fighter who has (comparatively) super human reflexes, speed, timing, accuracy, power, balance, etc over the military combatives guy. But the military combatives guy is focusing on more practical real world applications like dealing with sticks, knives, firearms, etc instead of becoming a hand to hand expert. If you teach the MMA fighter military combatives, he'd be way more dangerous than the Marine with a MCMAP blackbelt, that I can guarantee you. If anyone sees what the top shooters in IPSC can do, bringing the speed and precision of that skillset into one's tactics can only be a pro if applied correctly.
It's a fair point on the pistol dots, a bad shooter will be slower with a dot compared with irons. In a perfect world you would train everyone to a much higher standard, but in the real world it would probably be smarter to only allow your members who meet a minimum level of shooting skills to carry a pistol with a dot.
@@thecsatway3622 you don't earn a right, you can earn respect or affirmation but any joe can put a micro rds on their p80 jsd clone if they please..... just saying
@@ChicagoPD-c8mI think he's talking about law enforcement. If they can't reliably draw the gun and in that split second find the dot, they're better off with irons.
Your thought process and methodology for training and gear selection make sense. Your technique makes sense. Your stance on competition and where the applications of it don't transfer are logical. Your results for utilizing your techniques and experience are largely infallible. I submit the theory that your doctrine on how to apply red dots on a pistol for situational awareness creates less awareness and less opportunity to discriminate when the gun is up than the doctrine I was taught or that my equipment gives me. The doctrine I'm familiar with when the gun is already up for sighting alignment is that my gun and everything on it remains blurry, and the subject remains more visible. This gives me a better chance to target discriminate. Since a red dot over a target is always sharp even if your gun is blurry, assuming your eye anatomy is typical, I have a better chance of changing my decision to fire by taking in more stimuli at that moment than someone who is focused on their iron sight or something at the same distance away from their eyes as their hands. If splits don't matter, then a non-blurry target at any distance from the moment you commit to fire until you stop, with no interruption for finding a physical object in sight at hand distance, must surely be a benefit worth practicing until you can experience it. The issue then is "What if I can't find my red dot?" - This is where and why I submit that unless you train with someone who is proficient in this particular skill, you will search for your irons first. If you find your irons before your dot as a habit and have not intentionally trained and practiced to become proficient in acquiring the dot FIRST, then your reasoning for your method and doctrine may be: "Because that's how I've done it for years, and it's always worked". There's nothing wrong with that. It just makes me feel less confident that if you were my instructor that you would understand me as a student. While you have unquestionable experience which provides value in training that I can't even comprehend, I wish, as a prospective student of CSAT, that you as an instructor would take a red dot class to become proficient in the doctrine many professionals and many of your students use. (I also wish I lived closer, but I digress...) If you have trained with someone else specifically on red dots for pistols already, then I sincerely apologize and eat my words well. The best instructors I've ever had have never stopped taking classes. At least a couple per year to learn where their students are getting the things they bring to class.
Thank you for the detailed response. My instructors go to RDS Schools for Pistols by the key players. They bring the info back and I trust them with the data they share. I tried a RDS on a pistol and did not care for it. Maybe one day. I use a Red Dot on most of my rifles. In the end, let a shooter make their own decision on what they use for sights. It is a personal choice. I have been in combat ops and back a few times to back my decisions. This decision does not diminish my instructional ability with a weapon. I can teach a Red Dot shooter with a rifle what they need to know, even though my rifle is only topped with irons in a class. Why not a pistol? Finally, I own a range and see training every day. We have LE being issued RDS pistols/holsters and no training. They don't have ammo to train but buy the guns and holsters. Few dry fire and it shows. They did not train before and will not train now with a taxpayer purchased piece of gear that will help them miss faster. Also, they need to do two quals with their RDS pistols. One with the dot and one with irons only. How many do you think will ever do this? Again, leave it to the individual. If they make hits with whatever they put on top of their platform, I am good and will not helicopter mom them. In the end, we have LE officers that cannot field strip their pistols and now we now want to give them more gear to maintain. Thanks for the civil discussion.
@@thecsatway3622 I certainly would not assert that someone who is issued a red dot and isn't interested in training with it is in a good position to either succeed or wisely use taxpayer dollars. I also would not assert (as I hope my previous statement made clear) that anyone should use something they don't want to, unless of course they already happen to perform better with it. I hope the OCS product helps with quals, since it facilitates and accelerates finding both irons and dot sympathetically. I believe so strongly that your dual qualification problem is real that I'm trying to do something about it. Thanks for the civil and meaningful answer, as usual!
Great information here. It is quite difficult to take most internet gun guys seriously. There are very few that I can watch. I would rather learn than to be entertained. There really is something to be said for the quote, “less is more.” So many guys buy a gun, then go online and start looking for another gun. To each their own, but it seems a better use of time and energy to learn how to be proficient, rather than constantly shopping for gear. Your no nonsense approach is refreshing. I hope to make it out there to CSAT in the not too distant future. I believe I could learn a lot. Thanks
SpecOps are well funded and have resources to maintain gear highly used in short bursts cycles. If the ShTF the gear I’d want for longevity in a sparse equipment environment would be vastly different from SpecOps gear.
Your practical experience shows through. Your low ready opinion helped change my general mindset and recently I heard a Delta guy say “shooting someone doesn’t kill them…you’ve got to keep going until they are dead” and now you pointing out the potential hazard of IPSC really is hammering home how critical one has to be if everything they’re doing
What do you mean by "focused on flat triggers rather than striker fired guns that protected the firing pin"? Were there incidents of team 1911s going off after being dropped in somalia?
1911's have exposed firing pins that can collect dirt and debris and not allow the hammer to strike the firing pin. IPSC shooters at the time, wanted flat triggers instead of the curved for perceived enhanced performance. The problem was after being dusted by a helo infil, they would not work.
@@thecsatway3622 that's really interesting, I never would've imagined that could be a problem with the exposed hammer. how long until you eventually switched over to the glocks? I thought I heard something about a brief period in the 2000's when the .40 cal glocks saw some action.
Very helpful; especially the point about dropping a half-empty 1911 mag on concrete. Never thought about that. That can be very expensive if you're using Wilson Combat mags!
Absolute dead on with every point. I especially like the red dot topic. I use one on my Echelon, it's fun, although I find myself playing and chasing that little dot like one of my cats! But it does co-witness. The pistol I carry to protect my life... iron sights. Keep up the great videos!
hey I noticed you had a Walther that you used for demonstration purposes in this video. Is that particular model of handgun drop safe? They have a very good trigger. I have a Canik Rival which is extremely similar to a Walther because they basically copied the P99 mechanism and honestly I'm a working man so I'm not willing to drop my gun to find out of it'll go off. I know it can be tested safely with a dummy round with a live primer but I don't wanna damage my gun. Have you tried it?
@@thecsatway3622 Thank you Paul. I always appreciate your videos. You just teach people to fight. No frills, no flash, no BS. If I'm ever down your way I'd love to take a class. Unfortunately I'm all the way up in Michigan.
Always a pleasure to be reassured of my personal beliefs. I hate fads in firearms as they will get you killed. I am the fence about red dots on pistols as well. I have a left eye dominance and right handed, which is the only reason I am on the fence. Historically I hate having something with batteries on a firearm as they will fail you when you need them most.
Paul I didn't get the paper towel tube at the end of your reach? Are you referring to the red dot drawing one's attention and losing peripheral vision? And help on this fellas?
So, red dots on pistols require an insane amount of training to use effectively. The reason people are still adamant against running dots on pistols, especially in this day and age, is because they dont understand that, and they end up seeing them as ineffective or "too hard to use under stress" lol. I think the red dot to toilet paper tube analogy works in two ways. 1) Shooters who are not target focused, which is 99.999% of shooters, can and will be distracted by the dot. Even 99 percent of instructors. Anybody who front sight focuses will be inefficient with a red dot. It is a bright red blob in a pane of glass, That will get most people distracted. especially if youve been trained all your life to focus on your front iron. 2) Finding your dot perfectly is a skill that requires years of dry fire and practicing your target acquisition. You cannot just pick one up and start carrying with it and expect to be effective. If you have access to a red dot, draw it from a holster, aim at a lightswitch in your house about 10 yards away, and see if you can get that dot to go to your eye perfectly every time without fishing for it, and i really do mean EVERY time.
@@NateRunsGunsI agree with you to a degree but an insane amount of training to get it right is a bit hyperbolic. There are some fantastic trainers out there, even with free YT videos that can help. Finding out how to be target focussed translates across any optics whether pistol or rifle. If you dry fire 5-10 min a day using light switches or small targets around your house, you can quickly learn how to present from the draw and keep target focussed. Pistol skills as a whole are very perishable, so it takes some time and discipline to practice a little bit here and there to make sure you are doing your part :)
@@NateRunsGunsMy brother in Christ. With all due respect that is nonsense. Not to discredit your perspective but I genuinely doubt you have spent time running pistol RDS or have let new shooters run RDS. Literally every new shooter I’ve ever taught handgun to has dominated with red dot, I’m talking stacking rounds and target transitions in a very short time period, and that’s not because of my ability as an instructor. The dot eliminates a lot of unneeded complications from firing a handgun. Dots not only permit you to maintain target focus, they allow you to diagnose issues with your shooting, permit you to shoot with a higher level of accuracy, and give you a massive advantage in no light/ low light shooting. They are getting cheaper for quality options, and at this point are more durable than irons (dot dependent) this last year I’ve managed to break one dot…to the 6 iron sight failures I’ve either had or have occurred in my group.
@@CertifiedBullpupHaterWHY CANT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THIS!!! Literally anyone who says an RDS is complex are either boomers or can’t shoot for shit and have to cope for their lack of training. Times are changing folks, it’s time get your head out your ass and accept this new reality that RDS’s are the future because it’s only moving one way from here and that’s forward.
Red dots on pistols...(facepalm)...take those people with RDS pistols and place them in any sub optimal shooting positions...(on the ground, on their backs, on their sides, shooting out of vehicles, shooting with their non dominant hand, etc.)...they will at best struggle to find the dot and achieve a satisfactory sight picture, usually it's a total shit show and they can't come close to achieving minimum standards.
That's just false. Like anything, if youre bad with red dots, you are just bad fundamentally. Red dots are literally just irons without the rear sight. The reason red dots are harder for beginners is because you dont have a reference point that you can rely on to get that front sight inbetween. If you can't acquire a dot, you will not acquire a set of irons in the same position. I dont know why people are still on the anti-dot bandwagon when its proven time and time again that if you are competent, there are absolutely zero downsides in running them
Brotha that is just objectively untrue. If you can’t find the dot that means your weapon isn’t lined up at all. To be on target the dot must also be on target.
@@mynameisjeff6988 Not anti-dot. Irons can be overall seen faster if you do not have perfect alignment. If you come up with a blank window with a dot, you go into a search pattern. The key point you stated is competent. Most people will not take the time and ammo necessary to master them. This includes many LEO's.
@@paulhowe5863 Thanks Paul...that is essentially my point as well...because most people won't even train to the minimum standard (much less exceed it) red dots on pistols add a layer of complexity that will likely slow the shooter down, especially under duress or in difficult positions. Most folks will shoot with their new red dot to a competency level where they can find it quickly/intuitively when standing still on a flat range...then they call it good. Yes, it's a nice ego boost to be able to easily make a 50-100 yard pistol shots when using a red dot...but that's not the most likely scenario in which people employ a defensive handgun.
@@paulhowe5863 Oh yeah, red dots are pointless and actually a detriment in a duty role if you do not put the time in. They will make life a whole lot easier for newer shooters if you never ask them to draw and index the dot lol. As soon as you ask them to present from a draw at a decent pace, i guarantee they will have to fish for the dot for a couple of seconds each time
