Sorry that happened Chris! The Freewing F-4 was notorious for having a weak elevator servo installation from the manufacture: The fragility of the factory installed servo, the substandard glue used to secure the servo in place and a weak linkage, all combined, have been problematic for several Freewing F-4 pilots. It's possible your previous vids covered this insight. Best wishes towards your next F-4 project.
This is how I got my F-4. It had a crash from a dead elevator servo and I was given the airplane. I installed an HS5245 and repaired the damage enough to fly it. It's been great!
When you turned from downwind to base and having a tailwind in the base leg, you’ll instantly lose performance and airspeed and could cause a stall. The fact that you tried to recover with a secondary stall looks like the elevator was working but who knows. The only way to know is to pull the tapes from the black box and CVR.
My heart sank a bit this morning when I discovered the demise online of your Great Pumpkin! I followed the build with interest and watching the videos of you fly through the skies with authority. I still have my F-4,painted up as an F-4N in colors of VF-84 Jolly Rogers. On one of its first flights, I got a bit slow coming near the approach end of the runway, it rolled over onto its back in the dirt. The cockpit was broken off in the cockpit area, I glued it back together as best I could, but it definitely is slightly "bent" to the left. I still fly it although I have to have some aileron trim in it just to keep it level. But it does fly. I'll fly it until it goes in someday, and probably get another. Always enjoy your videos and your products. The dual afterburner I bought from you still works great!
I had a Durafly Spitfire MkVB that I loved. I had built, crashed, rebuilt, refreshed and fine-tuned a dozen times. It was my first >1m warbird. After not flying it for a while, I put it up in the air with the gyro off. It became hard to control and drifted too far away from me. I lost perspective on it and it went into a nosedive from which I could not recover. Hobby King stopped selling the model years before... so I recovered the parts, stripped off all the electronic gear, then put the crushed airframe in the trash. You are right. They all have an expiration date on them. 😔
The old combination of factors that came together. The flying field layout with trees seemed to have contributed to the pilot's decision to steepen the pitch angle before turning base to final approach to set up for a steeper than normal approach. (New airport for the pilot.) A strong tail gust with turbulence (Forecast weather conditions). Reduced airspeed and angle of attack caused a localized airflow separation to occur resulting in a stall. Pilot was unable to perceive and respond to the changing flight condition that developed very quickly in this phase of flight. (Pilot stated he had not flown the type in some time) The Phantom definitely has some unforgiving flight characteristics in a stalled condition. Video analysis shows the pilot feeding in elevator as he was slowing to turn base therefore the elevator was operational during this phase of the flight. The servo failed later as a result of the impact and did not contribute to the crash. I liked that plane too. Another great video. Thanks.
As they say, there are two type of rc airplanes…those that have and those that will crash. 🤣. I expect she’ll rise again in some form, just not right now sadly.
Farewell great Pumpkin! If you don’t turn it into a E model fix it back up and make it a hangar Queen. Pumpkins are always worth having around. Great video Chris
Turning into a downwind base leg with flaps and gear down is always going to be a gamble. I've learned the hard way to make sure my base leg is always into a prevailing crosswind with my EDFs. Turning downwind while slow with the extra drag from flaps and extended gear will cause you to drop like a freaking brick in my experience.
Props for thoroughly explaining why the servo might have failed and not just blaming it on happening right before the crash. Sorry bout your Phantom man, but great video!
All part of the game as you know. When something happens, I’m probably one of the few who will tend to blame myself first before anything else. This one was curious though, but still likely my fault, haha!
An absolutely gorgeous sky master F-4 was lost at Best in the West Jet Rally this year. Big difference in $$, but equally heart breaking. I am sorry for your loss of a unique, labor intensive, well executed model
Sorry Chris. We all loved the great pumpkin!! Whenever I buy any foamy with an all flying stab… I replace the elevator servo with something much higher torque, I fortify the mounting system… and upgrade the control arm. Given this is now 8cell there is much higher demand on that one little factory servo.
All part of the game. This actually was an aftermarket servo in there which made it all the more curious. The likelyhood is that I dumb thumbed it and the servo failure was secondary to that.
Aww man sorry to see this Chris...but it does happen from time to time . Not used to seeing all those trees around you while flying. Look forwards to your future builds.
It was a bit weird, I hope you are able to repair. When I first joined the Air Force they were the main fighter, their straight line speed coming towards the runway was breathtaking! I think right next to the F 16, my favorite fighter. Thanks, sorry for your loss, watching the video, I believe for what it's worth, you didn't have full control.
Thanks man, it’s all part of the hobby. I definitely didn’t feel like I had full control, but could’ve been because it was slow too. She’ll rise again at some point.
4:55 -I can see the plane pitching up with your inputs so the elevator servo seems to be working fine and if this happened at the turn without increasing throttle... hmmm. I've been there and looked exactly like my stall/crash. Thanks for posting.
Haha, thanks! I figured might as well have some fun with it and craft a full story around it. Was fun to out together, but wished it wasn’t a crash video, haha
Well done video Chris really really enjoying the new videos. Hope you're enjoying your new locale and as always look forward to more. Thanks, John from Canada
@@Thercgeek Chris you need to tell us more about your business. Perhaps here even here in Canada I could be a customer. But although I follow your channel closely I'm not sure what you do as far as earning money. Certainly my respect for you and my friendship towards you would lead me to giving you business if I could good please don't afraid to make money as far as your viewers go. You are a staple in my diet of RU-vid viewing and i would support you if I can.
Chris I feel for you. I loved watching it in the vids. It was one of a kind. For me Its kind of like watching my favorite team getting eliminated in the playoffs. HEART JUST SINKS. Onwards and upwards sir B
Hate to see this Chris!! However, I too had something similar happen on my maiden, but was lucky enough to retrieve with no damage, and find that elevator servo had indeed crapped out, so I did the hitech servo upgrade with 256 rod, and so far…no more issues. So, I bid farewell Great Pumpkin, and hopefully another will take your place in that great pumpkin patch someday👊🏼🎃🎃
Being a rookie and having lost my first balsa plane because of elevator servo failure or servo horn failure I´m afraid of that happening again. A young guy told me, "but you can knife edge back down"... yes you can if you have all the Time in the world, and a good simulator xD
Geek (think i'm gonna be sick) So sorry for loss, exact same thing happened to my F-18. high wind, turning down wind, slowing for final. In slow motion the wings were rocking a little just before it turned. This is a clue. just as it was going down it looked like you tried pitching up to save it so maybe the elevator was not so much a factor. Your Still the best in my book.
Entirely likely. My speed and throttle setting were about right for a calm day, but I didn’t do well accounting for the increasing wind. Could’ve been what got it into the situation.
Yeah first thing I did when I got my F4 was replace the tail servo, had heard of failures. Where is your field located, I have thought of moving to Tennessee but didn't look like there were many flying fields in that state. Yours looks pretty nice from what I can tell.
This actually was an upgraded servo that I had in there. This field is at cane ridge park in the outskirts of Nashville. Great spot with a great group of guys!
@@airman9820 Come fly with us and you will be considered our guest and covered by our permits - you will need AMA of course - in case your great pumpkin lands on someone's toe !
"That spin was hell. It would've shook me up." "A good pilot is compelled to always evaluate what's happened. So he can apply what he's learned. - Up there, we got to push it. That's our job." Part of the hobby some cannot cope with... you handled it well. I could see she was getting buffeted by the wind on that last pass. My F5 does not like slows dirty turns in the wind. I had one looked pretty similar to what happened to you here. First turn coming out of down leg setting up for approach dirty.... I ended up pulling out of a stalled turn about 3' off the ground. First time I ever took her up on a windy day. 10th/12th flight overall with her. SEVERE pucker factor!!! I never go below half throttle dirty anymore unless I am lined on and on the "glide slope". I have wondered though, on windy days, are these servos being overtaxed with these stabilization systems making constant corrections...
Yeah, my speed and throttle was about right for a calm day, didn’t do well accounting for the increasing wind. That could’ve been what caused that uncommanded tuck.
I know you know but the F4 is infamous for getting way too draggy when the gear and flaps are down. I maidened a friend's FW 6S F4 and used only 3/8" down flaps on landing, this thing is like a surf board if the nose pitches up a bit. On the down leg, I did see your F4 slow down and pitch up a bit going slow but then nose went down a bit and it picked up some speed. Assuming Full Flaps were used on the down leg (I think I saw them deployed at the beginning of the video and they looked like almost 75 degrees down?) and watching the slow mo video, it looks like a typical F4 stall but then it recovered from the first stall into a level flight for a split second, Elev servo still working well, but now it's going way too slow so it stalled again and I didn't hear the EDF coming up to speed till almost impact. It's very possible the Elev servo got damaged from the impact and being stuck in the bushes. Hopefully you get it fixed! Thx for sharing.
Observing Robert Petrincic's crash of the ME-262, it stalled when at a similar downwind to base zone of flight. Also, there's a P-38 stall-spin vid where the guy miraculously pulls it out. Again, the aircraft was quite distant. I'm considering the possibility there's a tendency to slow down when the aircraft is distant. I don't understand the reasons. We do know there's better mental connection/feedback with the plane when it is in closer proximity. I jockey the throttle continuously through flight, adjusting to ascent, descent and turns. So I may be more vulnerable to an under-throttle mistake. More of a beginner pilot stays safe keeping the throttle above 1/2 or normal cruise and adjusting less. But what happens when we're thinking about slowing down for landing? Could I dumb-thumb the throttle? Is it more likely when the plane is distant? I'm practicing better throttle awareness by taking a lesson from flights shared on RU-vid. So Thanks! p.s. It was the SERVO!
Probably the failure of the servo. Unlike a fixed elevator surface, a flying elevator takes a lot more pressure. This is why on any flying elevator, I always upgrade the servo(s). It happened to me once and ever since all my jets with flying elevators have high Torque servos. Eg: Mig-29, F4, SU30, F16, F18, T45, etc. I don't take any chances anymore and have yet to have this problem. So long Great Pumpkin, RIP.
I feel for you been there more then once . and you know you shouldn't take it up but you do anyway and electronic failure hinge failure and you watch her come down hard great video can't wait to see you new replacement one keep up the good videos
Always loved your Pumpkin, sad to see if go! I've got 2 of these F4'S still flying, both with your burners and 12 blade 6S inrunners, one repainted to a Blue Angel and the other to a "Key West" Sundower of my own design but know they won't last forever. Had a problem with one elevator's set screw coming loose recently, rolled violently and somehow eneded up full throttle hovering 3 feet off the ground, and set it down on its tail, no damage. Shoulda been it's expiration date but lives to fight another day, now with SMC'S new HiV 6200 packs which may hasten it's ultimate demise. 🤣 Hope you resurrect it for next Halloween!
Oh no Chris, my heart hurts for ya. Such a beauty, but I'm excited to see the rebound. I slapped right into the side of my car today and tore up my F16 so I feel ya pain bud. 😭 👍
Thanks for an honest debrief on this one. I see you installed a Castle ESC as well. Any comment on preference between the Talon and Phoenix Edge Lite series and why you chose one over the other?
It was one of my favs man, but this is the way. This was actually an updated servo I had in it. Thinking it possibly may have not been up to the task long term.
Dang sorry to see this..Ive refinished my F4 and F14 from Freewing and they have been hanging on my wall since lol. Funny but was considering flying the F14 next weekend. I think its just fine right where it is lol
@@Thercgeek Ha ha yep. To my own credit I did fly them a bunch before I spent all that time detailing them, so I can live with myself lol. Sorry again. Beautiful plane and hope you repair it.
Chris and all who fly at Cane Ridge - beware the hedge apples - I always scan the field before I take off - we have lots of critters here - deer, turkey, armadillo , geese, hawks, vultures, rabbits, squirrels etc. One day I arrived at the field and there were several jet pilots flying and I skipped my usual scan of the runway. Just before rotation there was a loud pop and my plane veered left and onto the grass minus its prop. Turns out there was a hedge apple on the runway! - Larry
Every servo has its expiration date I suppose. The TX could record a servo actuation count with a model profile and in some brighter future, it could tell you when to replace the unit. So sorry about the GP Phantom.
Almost identical crash of my Freewing F-4 earlier this year. Put gears down in downwind leg and before turn to base leg, it lost power and went down. I attributed it to old 6S battery.
Sorry man about the loss of The Great Pumpkin! Bad elevator servos could be the play of the crash. Are you gonna get other one again? It stranded out very well and best model I ever seen.
Could’ve been, but hard to know for sure. In that abrupt pitch up, you can actually hear a crack. I think it busted the glue joint for the rear fuselage. I’m sure she’ll rise again, mostly just needs a new fuselage. I’d like to switch it up though and do a different scheme if I do.
Let’s rise up to newer Pumpkin 2.0 version. Fuselage is needed and get the update work on the fuselage to withstand the failures. Maybe revamp around the fuselage to make them to fly better than original wasn’t designed for?
After many questionable crashes of my own thru the years i always make sure to keep the Gear Tucked up just incase i do have to ditch one..This saves on a huge amount of damage that the nose gear will inflick on the plane
I won't armchair what happened. Servo or airspeed, either could have been the culprit. I pancaked one of mine a while back in a similar fashion but mine was airspeed. Loved your LU hat. I live not far from there! Rip great pumpkin.
Always sucks reaching the expiration date. Watching your post flight analysis, it came to me what we do in a full-scale incident or a crash. Before moving anything, document the plane with photos from several angles. In a model, check the movement of the control surfaces if possible or at a minimum listen for servo operation. I know we want to just grab the trash bag and start filling it with the pieces but think about it this, you could have confirmed it the stabilator was jammed up against an object, verified the servo operation after if the battery or receiver was damages/disconnected. Of course, I've never really done this, but without the emotional burden you experienced, it was easy to come up with this approach to how a crash may have occurred. Waiting with bated breath for the Hustler first flight! 😀
All good points. We actually had a tough time finding it as the brush was quite high. We had to jockey the throttle to make some noise to help us locate it. My friend was the one who picked it up after falling into a hole on the way to it, haha
Sorry for the loss. Yep some tricky wind. Speed kills! (Slow speed that is). Plane looked rocky through out that turn. Nose wasn't down keeping up airspeed. Seems elevator was working. I saw the plane try to pitch up again after regaining some speed. Vertical speed that is lol. (Death thumb on elevator I suppose.). Holding right ail made worse. I always get close calls on elevator stalls on the F-4.. Even at high speed. Give it too much and it Will bite ya.
I feel the pain, all the time you put into of refinishing surface & paint scheme. Yes they all have expiration date. Did you have to remove any foam to install the JetFan 90mm fan Or make any mods? Back in the 90s I built a Yellow Aircraft F-4 , I built as a Blues Angle's, took like a year to build to finish. Did maiden, after that got 4 more flights & another pilot plowed into the belly of it. I had a OS 90 with a Dynamax fan.
All part of the game unfortunately. I think I had to remove a little foam around the shroud to get the hatch fit right, but that was it getting it in there.
I just destroyed a, very nice, large scale P-51 in EXACTLY, the same scenario. Stall/ spin in a down wind turn. It taught me that you cannot make, high bank angle, turns like that. With the warbirds, I keep a high throttle setting until I complete the turn to final. Keeping the wings mostly level, minimum bank, and rudder thru the turn. On a calmer day, the crash wouldn't have happened.
Not sure if you are running the stock UBEC. I had one fail in my F4 (over volt) and it took out my rudder servo before it failed completely and burned out all my servos. Lucky it happened on the ground. Might pay to check your UBEC just in case. The other thing Ifound was that the stock STAB servo was marginal for the load from the STABS especially on 8S and replaced it with a HITEC MG mighty mini servo. Hope this helps.
I actually had an upgraded servo in it. Likelihood is I dumbthumed it, but the servo failure was a curious bit in the whole thing as I didn’t have any control of it once it departed.
It was preety noticeable that your left wing stalled and dropped inwards the curve, right after it dropped you pulled the elevator, wich got things worse.. after that its all history... Been there with my p40.. wing tip stall plus elevator equals tragedy!
Its definitely a weak spot in the FW. I had done some work back there and also upgraded the servo also actually. So, this was an upgraded servo that had failed.
Haha! Well, these are the excuses in descending order since obviously it is never the fault of the pilot! 🤣 1. It was the radio 2. It was a servo failure 3. It was a mechanical failure 4. There was a sunspot that resulted in crash causing radiation! 5. A dog attacked me while flying Etc. You get the idea. 🤣
That sucks man!! Sorry about that. I think you should redo it as the great pumpkin again. Everybody says those freewing servos suck and need to be replaced before you ever fly the plane. Any of their planes. I didn’t watch any of your build videos on it so I don’t know if you had done that already or not. 🍻🍻🍻
We’ll see if she comes back as the pumpkin again. As much as I loved it, I’d kind of like to switch it up. I did actually upgrade the servo in this one, so who knows. Could’ve been entirely my fault
@@Thercgeek For an absolute millisecond it appeared that the plane kind of flattened out (for lack of better words) and was flying like it had no elevator authority. That’s what it appeared like to me.
I have the F 14 and the F 15 from motion. I can’t get more than 2.5 minutes and have maybe 10 percent left , and I do manage my throttle. My Stinger 90 4.5 minutes and still have enough for a go around if needed , looks like you lost power. If I flew my scale jets like that I would no longer have them. What was your battery percentage after that?
The model had plenty of power left. You can hear it come in, I think I just dumb thumbed it and got it too slow for the conditions. I was flying an 8s jetfan 90 setup in it that would get me around 5 minutes of mixed flying pretty easily. Super efficient and great performance.
All the more reason to design models with redundancy built in. Dual elevator servos is a must if you want to have any real chance of landing the model without damage in the event of an elevator servo failure. Equally with ailerons, which today is typical practice. Rudder is not as crucial, but ganging dual servos on rudder is never a bad idea. Powerful servos in small sizes now make all of this easy to achieve without adding undue amounts of additional weight. An experienced modeler like you already knows all of this, so this is for the newbies.
Rip great pumpkin,but we remember Somewhere an rc imjaystation is prolly making a summoning Haunted rc fighter jet f4 phantom the great pumkib at 3am(GONE WRONG)(GONE SEXUAL)😱😱😱😱😱
You stalled the plane, servo was good, you said you pull hard in the elevator and you can see in the middle of the dive the plane actually point the nose level 5:46 minute and you give up in the throttle nose when back down and caput . That happen to me exactly the same with the same aircraft, exactly the same during landing with flaps, but when the nose when down I pull the elevator and full throttle, the plane when nose up falling down like 3D hover, then I eased the elevator gently to level the nose, still full power and try to get speed on the wing to get out, the plane was save. Never ever lower flaps on the phantom on a turn, always only when he is straight with the runway, yes we do it 100’s of times, but just that day disaster’s strokes. Sorry for you lost.
Oh man, that sucks! You’re just the guy to get her resurrected though! Expiration dates, man ain’t that the truth! Was hoping to run into you yesterday, (Friday), perfect flying weather. I’ve recently switched to cane ridge from Edwin Warner. I’m really enjoying the group of guys!
If this was uncomanded, than it was "Inevitable" in fact. If it was not a technical problem, the only way out if this: Apply opposit rudder, full throttle and gently pull her out. It looked in fact like it got blown over by the wing or just was to slow first :D
Looks like when you turned base the wind was at your tail so you were going slow mid turn, and you entered a typical accelerated stall spin. The elevator servomechanism was likely fine until after the crash where it briefly lost communication with the transmitter leaving it in a up elevator command burning up the the servo.
Sorry to see the demise of your beautiful F4 Chris. I think you are too good a pilot for it to be your fault, definitely elevator servo failure. It’s rebirth is only a new fuse away, and think of the time saving only having to refinish a new fuse 😊
I’m not following entirely. I think you mean related the inevitability of rc airplanes crashing? 😉. Because there are only two types of rc airplanes, that’s that have and those that will crash. 🤣
