The Night Lords did love Curze, he just wasn't very happy with them. Probably makes it worse when the father you love and admire so much openly hates you and is never pleased.
@@John-kc4cg Exactly. Like, Angron wants his dogs to hate him, and most end up doing so. He wanted to die with his brothers on Nuceria, fighting against the tyranny of the high-riders, and the Emperor took him away from that and left Angron's original "kin" to die. And instead of a band of rebels, he was given loyal lap dogs with blind faith to someone that Angron would consider the greatest high-rider of all. Curze wanted vindication and to prove that he couldn't change his fate, and his children just wanted their leader and father to be with them, as they cut their path of "justice" through life, before the legion was poisoned, before they lost the ones who could remember.
People give Perturabo shit for treating his legion so indifferently... but the Emperor was also pretty aloof with the Astartes and the Primarchs. Apple didn't fall far from the tree.
It's because of the hypocrisy. He was so butthurt about the Emperor and other legions not giving his recognition and accolades for the prices they paid in their grinding attritional warfare. So for him to turn around and be equally indifferent to his own legion is pretty hypocritical. Also Perturabo is just a baby back bitch sometimes. Killed his own sister for speaking the truth to him.
I am baffled what type of mouthbreather would even be simping for the emperor this hard anyway. It makes me imagine a guy who's never had a dad in his life. Like...the emprah was a piece of shit, he was basically Stalin, if Stalin was an evil wannabe God that had thousands of ritual human sacri--well ok he was Stalin. Burned the last church to the ground. Emperor is the kind of person to leave Beria to babysit his sons. So this whole idea of "primarchs was bad" is completely forgetting who tf their biodad was, the emperor was is and always will be a total powermad piece of shit, that's kind of the point, he was also a fool and not a god, which is why it's funny the elites of Terra made him into some fake god in a bid to hang on to their own power.
This gives me the excuse to post the 1D4chan post that perfectly describes the iron warriors. When the Iron Warriors go to war, everyone is expendable. Eve-ry-one. Back in the days of the Great Crusade they spent Astartes lives like bolter rounds, human lives like lasbolts autogun bullets, and they haven’t got better with time. Their pure, unadulterated contempt for life is such that, in the Siege of Castellax, they refer to their mortal servants simply as “flesh,” and place orders for more like fast food (battalions 3-5 were wiped out today. I’ll have four more, to go, and hold the pickles). Speaking of food, when rations started to get low, the Iron Warriors started feeding their people the rendered down remains of the dead. It's not like Imperium does not do the same on the regular basis. The Iron Warriors are basically the very epitome of the bad boss trope. The Night Lords may send the populations of entire worlds to the skinning pits just for shits and giggles (and record it all for future shits and giggles), but even they usually respect their valuable servants, enough to even sometimes exchange friendly banter with them.
Always loved this explanation as it shows how the IW are different from other legions. They are completely result-oriented and focused entirely on objectives, with 0 regard to their losses unless it would impede their overall war effort. It makes them the perfect strategists but at the same time also excacerbates their infighting as every commander is constantly pressured for results on pain of punishment. But this also means that they aren't one-trick ponies like the fanbase paints them as or like the god-dedicated legions. If they need to find enemy positions or they need to clear a minefield, they can grab some slaves or march cultists towards the enemy. If they find a weakness in enemy lines, they prep their legionnaires for an assault. If the enemy is low on ammo and manpower, they might even charge their positions for melee combat, but otherwise will rely on bolters and artillery. Many other traitor marines focus too much on the thrill of combat, or attaining glory for either themselves or their patron gods. The Iron Warriors, though, simply aspire for victory, at any cost.
This attitude is also mirrored in the badab conflict. Where the Astral Claws eventually grow to disdain their human-trained troops, and it's later explained that the empire tried this sort of astartes+mortal formations training and tactics before, but that eventually, the immortal space marines, as they see the mortals die. All of their work fed into the grinder grows cynical, detached, and jaded. Ultimately leading to hatred against the humans they were meant to protect for their weaknesses and frailties.
Do not try and put the Night Lords minters above the Iron Warriors, the night lords have zero redeeming qualities. They are the worst of the worst, just because a couple of night lord characters where “nice” to a servant does nothing to redeem their legion they are monsters. The Iron warriors are a cold reminder of what war looks like. If you want an Iron warriors respect… you must earn it. Plus most “servants” of the Iron Warriors are trader guards and cultists of the dark gods at this point. Most are cowards or mindless anyways.
The Iron Warriors probably would have been very happy if the Death Korps of Krieg had been established during the great crusade. Yay! Efficient cannon fodder for the campaigns
You forgot the incredible amount of inherited pettiness driving that energy. Iron Warriors were sorest losers. They would only accept victory even if it meant blood for blood, life for life, suffering for suffering, etc. If you chipped their tooth they would break their jaw just to break yours back. They are just sophisticated savages. Gotta love em 🥰.
The 4th Legion is a lesson in what happens when you take advantage of someone who worshipped you, Perturabo’s meeting with the Emperor was the possibly the best of all the Traitor Primarchs besides Magnus’ yet the Emperor displaying his trust in Perturabo by not doing anything about the decimation did not display any gratitude for the legion that won him the crusade by annihilating its worst enemies. The Emperor denied the Legion most deserving of downtime and honors those very things. This laid the Doom of both the Emperor and Horus when he repeated his Father’s Mistake concerning the Iron Stalwart.
The hell you on about? The emperor gave pertorabo gratitude via telling him to his face that he is valued and validated because he can do things others find boring. And Emperor didn't deny the IW any honnor or rest... pertorabo denied them rest, and the Imperum with help of people denied there honnor.
@@sirderikThis is the problem with Turbo lovers, dude has a victim complex, it doesn't matter what the emperor did, Perty would find a way to make it into an insult, his own sister brings up this continual choice of Pertys and he can't handle it, he murders his own adoptive sister because she was making far too much sense.
@@higharchbishopofteatasting6217 eh if you actually read that part you see that she is doing a few leaps of logic that aren't supported by the wider narrative within the same book....sure perto would fuck himself over alot, but its a bit more than just a victim Complex.
@@sirderik Nah turbo just shouldn't have been such a petulant man child and asked for a builder role. You can make all the excuses you want for the iron crybaby but that's all he is. Effective, but unwanted by anyone.
@@higharchbishopofteatasting6217that, and his habit of gleefully stuffing his own legion into every galactic meatgrinder he can find, stacking up an insane amount of losses, then pointing at the pile of corpses and basically going “BOO HOO, LOOK WHAT DAD MADE ME DO!! IT’S SO HARD!!” When other legions like the Iron Hands would get the job done without resentment, seeing it as a test, a problem to be solved while getting the maximum returns on the investment that is an Astartes. The Iron Warriors would’ve been so much better without Perturabo
I finally figured out the difference between Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists. The Fists value their duty and their Imperium. The Iron Warriors value nothing but victory.
They value nothing. Not even victory. The Iron Warriors don't celebrate a hard fought victory. They clean up, and move on. They are pure bitterness and cold hatred.
actually there's more difference, imperial fists focus on defense where as iron warriors focus on siege usually sent to attrition heavy warzones with long and dreary sieges
Victory is a pleasant outcome. More important is not that they necessarily win - but that you, their enemy, lose. If they can't have their goal, they ensure over commitment in repelling them and then basically flip the table by destroying the goal too. The game is not won, its just over. And that's good enough.
Considering their Primarch and what he did upon their reunion, it's no surprise they turned out the way they did. They are still my favorite traitor legion alongside the Thousand Sons.
Nah, psychopaths have poor impulse control and are thrill seekers, Slaaneshie in nature, E.C. are psychopaths. The Iron Warrior are (wannabe) machine-like, cold and efficient (except at the core... at least in Perty's case). They've after an objective, but they don't care about the thrill in achieving it. If a boring siege accomplishes an objective more efficiently then they'll do that.
your thinking of sociopaths, though these terms were phased out due to inaccuracy. psycopaths feel nothing and will manipulate in order to acomplidsh their goals.
@@IHaveAName1824 Psychopathy, as a descriptor, is still used by various medical organizations. ie, the National Institute of Health, from the US. With the given definition as, "a neuropsychiatric disorder marked by deficient emotional responses, lack of empathy, and poor behavioral controls, commonly resulting in persistent antisocial deviance and criminal behavior." In contrast, I would say that the term "sociopath" was almost always the colloquial term, and not psychopath. With "sociopaths" often thought of, by the public and popular media, as psychopaths who can't fit in. However, within Psychiatry, "sociopath" was never widely accepted and never rigorously defined to any consensus. However, it does speak to the spectrum of psychopathy. I suppose almost all the legions, except perhaps the Salamanders, display a lot of psychopathic behavior.
I find it very unfit to limit what is known as psychopathy to the impulsive thrill seeker stereotype. The only fundamental trait of psychopathy is the deepest lack of empathy, how the brain lacks the normal reaction to emotional response. Within this trait there is an endless amount of personalities a psychopath can have. This is the only defining trait of psychopathy. Impulsiveness is related to intelligence and poor impulse control rather than lack of empathy.
I dont care how the Imperium spins it, no one was pushed as hard and stretched so thin as the IV legion. They were the epitome of what it is to be grossly unappreciated, 0 gratitude and recognition.
They were the exact attitude asked of by the imperial war machine yet they found themselves on the wrong side. Meanwhile the guardsmen are exactly the same way. How ironic 😅. “Time to die I guess, finally I’ve been waiting” ~pleb guardsmen or Iron Warrior idk
The Iron Warriors were ridiculously effective as a legion both before Perturabo’s coming and after Perturabo’s coming. The Emperor relied on his Iron Stalwart and his Legion to break Xenos Empires, to destroy resistant Human Civilizations, and if not for the Arrogance of the Phoenecian the Laer as well.
Honestly I love the iron warriors as villains because unlike the other chaos legions, whose cruelty is based on sadism or a desire to please the dark gods, the cruelty of the iron warriors is derived from their sheer cold, calculating nature. Human beings are an asset to them. Men, women, children, and even their own battle brothers are little more than pieces of coal to be thrown into a furnace to power a machine. They could not care less about collateral damage, civilian casualties, or deaths of their underlings, all that matters to them is victory and defeat. I know the term “space nazi” gets thrown around a lot but i really think that the iron warriors deserve that title more than most other 40k factions.
Yeah but I wouldn’t go as far to call them Nazis plus aliens aren’t people and most chapters hate religion… because it’s silly and the emperor hated religion.
Well I mean Aliens aren’t human lol, but Nazi isn’t a good fit. Considering the Nazi gave a fuck about their troops until they started to lose. But most space marine legions don’t like religion. Because it’s silly and the emperor hated it. Stop trying to make everyone who you either don’t like, or is even in a fantasy setting a Nazi lmao. I mean shit, the word is meaningless now everyone and every thing is a Nazi at this point lol.
The thing about Perturabo is that he wasn't abusive as the other "bad dad" primarchs, he was simply doing things he thought necessary, however he does feel SOMETHING towards his sons, he tries to hone them, nurture them, teach them. If he felt nothing he would have simply discarded them long ago and just went full heretek building an army of machines or using more technological advancements on baseline humans. He has the technological prowess to build better war machines than his sons. He COULD do it. He does not. He might not love them in the normal sense but he still puts his pride into them, that's his attachment to them I think. He is more a strict father with impossibly exacting expectations that may drive his sons to despise him, they may be driven away from him but they also respect their father as well for they know, all the hardship they suffered at the hands of Perturabo actually made them that much hardier and brutal warriors as well as they recognize his genius and unyielding strength. He basically raises his sons with the "Sink or swim, b****! I ain't no helicopter papa!" method but he DOES love them in his own prideful, stubborn, unemotive, bitter way.
I agree! Perty is a hard and strict Father but far from uncaring. Of all the legions I would say the 4th is sitting in the best situation. They have their own secure area in the warp, hold many worlds, have the ability to replenish their ranks, not sub servant to the ruinous powers, their Primarch is alive and fights for the legion. Albeit Perty is a "daemon" now but from what I read Perty had learned/knew everything about physical reality and went to study the Warp. My guess is he has used the warp to become an ascended Primarch/Daemon much like Corvius.
They were chosen for seige and garrison missions, neglecting the need for rest and reorganization... Isn't garrison duty a pretty good chance to rest usually?
something thats often ignored regarding the daemonculaba: Not only was it a thing concocted by a single warpsmith who'd gone a bit cuckcoo, but the rest of the legion not part of that particular warband also found it disgusting. Though their indifference doesnt exactly help the image, its still a shame the *entire* Fourth gets painted as using those things, when it was only Warpsmith Honsou and his maniacs who utilised it
I have a theory, we all know that the Big E has enormous psychic powers, which includes prescience. What if the Big E knew from day one he would be betrayed, and betrayed by half his sons. So he deliberately treats some with enormous respect and care and others he treats with indifference. Apart from Horus, all of the other traitor primarchs we heavily flawed in some way in comparison to those who stayed loyal. That's not to suggest that the loyal primarchs weren't flawed, they were, but each of them except Magnus was in some way a lesser version of a primarch who stayed loyal. He chose The Lion over Horus, because he knew that Lion'el Jonson would never fall to Chaos. Although Horus was by far the more charismatic, The Lion would have been a far better Warmaster, as he was less emotionally attached to the success of the Crusade for ego reasons that Horus was. It was Horus' initial pride that began the first small steps on his path to treachery. The Big E knew one of his two sons who were the siege specialists, Dorn and Peter Turbo would betray him, and he choose Dorn as the superior of the two. Allowed those who he regarded as the lesser of the comparable primarchs to fall whilst retaining the other to his cause. In the end, although it cost him dearly, he was right and the Imperium won. That's why so many of the primarchs were somewhat mirror images in many ways of the other. Angron and Sanguinius is an excellent example. Angron's primarch power originally, before the Nail's ruined him, was empathy backed by an enormous capacity for violence to protect. That's why Angron was so filled with hate for the Emperor. He took away his chance to protect or die with the only people he cared about, his army of gladiator slaves. I think the Big E thought that Magnus would fall, but wouldn't destroy his webway project, that was the thing he didn't foresee and what meant that the traitors almost won. I think there are hints all the way through that indicate the Big E knew exactly what he was doing with Pertarabo, Mortarion, Angron and Curze, knowing they would fall because all of them were already broken and susceptable to the tempations of Chaos. I think he engineered from day one which primarchs would stay loyal, and which would fall. Even Horus in the short story Warmaster admits he would prefer to have the loyalist primarchs on his side, recognising he has only the broken and monsters on his side.
I know this is a bit of an obscure question, but @ 6:30 it’s mentioned the heraldic emblem of the legion was a winged bolt, is there a source for this? One of the current loyalist space marine chapters, the Marines Malevolent use that as their emblem as well. They have a ton of similarities to the Iron Warriors and its obscure who exactly their primarch is. Maybe the black library writers used this source material as a nod to the Marines Malevolent’s true origins. On another note great video, cheers!
Could just as likely be death guard, since the MM don’t tolerate psykers. The winged lightning bolt isn’t unique to any legion, either, it was used by all of them.
I like these guys and Peter Turbo because they're the embodiment of all my worst personality traits. It doesn't help that I'm an industrial engineer irl, the discipline centered around optimizing shit as much as possible.
I greatly admire the iron warriors' resolve, willfulness, intelligence, and ultra pragmatic approach to warfare. That being said, there are a few things i would have done differently to ensure their continued loyalty: - actually praise their victories. Nothing ensures loyalty and comraderie like hinoring the sacrifices and celebrating the accomplishments of the legion. - maybe send them on fewer gruelling sieges and warzones. And also dont overly rely on them to do every single militaristic task that could otherwise be accomplished by other legions or different military branches much more cost effectively. - hold perturabo accountable for decimating his legion to teach them a lesson. By this i mean make him spend some time in probation with another primarch, ideally one that could show him better methods of motivating his legionaries whilst being able to subdue him if he let his temper prevail. Id suggest rogal dorn or vulkan. In the interim i would let the iron warriors recover from the decimation and give them some autonomy in how they wish to proceed in their duties.
🔴 Khorne Magic: Metal (Iron❤️Blood)! Perturabo the Demon Primarch of Khorne and his Iron Warriors: just like living armor leaking hot iron generated by their own boiling blood! (And most terrifyingly, despite their rage their minds are intact) According to logic, how would Perturabo seal his pact with Khorne, destroying Olympia? Can he become a master of destructive Metal Magic, then creating bloodthirsty Sorcerers of Khorne in his army? Perfect example is the magic of Azariah Kyras as the Daemon Prince of Khorne! Not Kharn but Kroeger the Betrayer!
🔥 Loyalist Angron vs Daemon Primarch Perturabo. "You think I am weak...but you have grown weaker Perturabo. I have remade my strength, while you have sold yours out of dispair. You are weak. You are a slave. You where born a slave, and a slave you will remain. Your strength flees. It does not belong to you. It is your master's, and the chain that keeps you throttles you. The threads of blood are thinning, the meal of slaughter will only keep you here long enough, to watch your bastard sons die."
As far as your opening statement goes I think it's genetic loyalty. (I've always hypothesized that's actually Lorgar's Primarch super power. His genetic bond is the strongest out of all his brothers) The Word Bearers explain that. It took touching god - killing fulgurite to break Lorgar's genetic bond with one of his sons (Barthusa Narek one of the most underrated Astartes).
The more I learn about the Iron Warriors and their mindset, the more I believe that a combined force of Krieg Guardsmen and Iron Warrior Astartes would be unstoppable.
"The Emperor however, -swiftly silenced- once again proved himself to be a world class fuck-up of a father. Sewing yet another seed that would blossom into the galaxy spanning shit show humanity now finds itself mired in." #FTFY
What nobody realizes here is that Perturabo is the magikal moniker of Aleister Crowley. Frater Perturabo- “Brother Who Shall Endure to the End”. Now you know.
You should mass replace text so the bot pronounces odd words correctly, example being how it says “Astares”. It could be replaced with something like “asstardeez” which has worked for myself in the past. Another thing I feel would improve would be using a female voice for the quote sections, helps break up the mood and regrab people’s attention.
So I'm a massive IW and IH fan boy. So I have to ask did the lore change recently? I thought Perturabo only got Forgebreaker after the drop site massacre.
God i am so sick of the demoncubla....its such a useless, pointless, overly edgy, trash concept. Its just honsu, the most boring character in his own books doing evil villain shit and it becomes a buzzword for grimderp shit... It's not even grimdark it's just dumb, boring and most importantly irrelevant. It has next too nothing to do with the iron warriors being Imperial fist geneseed used by a mongrel imperial fist OC fan fic character.
It makes complete sense for the creation of new Marines. They can't do normal techniques so some sort of dark ritual under the chaos gods is going to be weird. With it being about birth, I would say because of the nature of chaos and it just being a dark reflection of humanity.... That's maybe how it would go.
@@ethanvallance4989 why are you under the belief that they can't recruit the normal way? But that they have the medical expertise and facilities to make demon fetus forced women whoms that can birth out Astartes.
Another pretty cool legion ruined by their moron of a Primarch. I like to imagine how much more the 4th could have gotten done, and how many losses they would have avoided if Perturabo hadn’t been around to gleefully cram them into every meatgrinder he could find with no regard for the fact that an Astartes is an investment you can get colossal returns on, and not just a number on a spreadsheet. Perturabo is the epitome of book smart, not street smart.
