definitely about time i subbed to you, youre the only person i know that actually has the same mindset as myself and can actually express it publically and correctly. a very accurate take on the GD Awards
Thanks for the feedback. I've heard people's criticisms about the last Geometry Dash Awards and concerns ahead of this one, and I'm continuously making changes to address these. The date being set on December 19 is only to get the whole event happening during the holidays. There will be a 7-10 days voting period afterwards, and of course there has to be some time left for editing. (Every year I've announced the results premiere to be a bit too early than what is humanly possible for the editor, so this time there'll be more leeway calculated in.) This means that the results will most likely not happen before January 2 or so. Levels that were released after 2.1 Awards, that is at the end of December 2019, are currently being considered by the committee, and it will work the same way for levels released at the end of December 2020 for the 2021 Awards. As for me being the wrong person to run these, it sucks to hear that but at the same time, it only makes me more motivated to try even harder to make the events better. My first events 5 years ago were all very well received, but as time went on and I got more popular with a larger viewership, there were naturally new viewers who had criticisms. One of the things I've learnt is that it's impossible to satisfy everyone with the amount of different opinions out there in such a vast community. I'm thankful for the criticisms as they help me grow, though, but it's difficult to find a correct balance. There are a lot of people who like an event as it is, while some don't. If I change it to please the latter, the former won't be satisfied. This is the main issue in my mind that I think about all the time. The committee for the 2020 Awards has been pretty much completely revamped, and I'm open to getting more people on it to diversify opinions. Most of the people on it before were mostly my circle. It's important to note here that I don't make any final decisions on my own. The whole committee decides the nominees together. I'm just the guy getting everyone together and making it happen. As for choosing new people for the committee, that is decided by the commitee too, not just myself. Anyone will be considered. The issues with the 2.1 Awards's nominees was only amplified by the fact that we were covering a 3-year period. A lot of people agreed with the nominees, but a vocal minority disagreed. Like you mentioned, the Best Player category had some clear issues. We actually asked some of the best players out there for their personal 4 nominees for this category, and their choices aligned perfectly with ours, which was quite surprising to us. When choosing them, we had to decide if we valued continuous skill shown throughout those 3 years or just at the end of the update, which is what most people have fresh in their mind, and we tried to strike a balance here. Once again, impossible to satisfy everyone, but I believe with just 1 year period there will be less room for "mistakes" like this. I don't quite agree with how you said the community's input in the form will amplify the problem, nor do I really see where this point came from. We missed some popular choices in the 2.1 Awards, and this time around we will be adding those popular choices on the shortlist if we see where the community is coming from. Needless to say, nSwish and Mycrafted would definitely be on Best Player for the 2.1 Awards if we used a voting system like this. The committee's purpose is only to make sure it is not entirely a popularity contest. We will make sure that the nominees per category are justified, and from there on it's up to the community in the voting. I really like how this is an event for the community to come together and vote, but sadly it will be a popularity contest as you said. The general player who doesn't keep up too much won't have the grounds to judge all the nominees. I do think the magic of the event would be lost without voting, though, so I don't see this changing much. One thing we might be doing that I could do a Twitter poll on is weighted scores, so let's say the community's vote counts for 50% and another group counts for 50%. Instead of the community, this group could be formed from votes through a form where you nominate people other than yourself that you think has the grounds to judge the nominees and pick a good winner. What do you think about this solution? The issue here, though, is once again that everyone can't be pleased. Most of the general playerbase that I just mentioned complained about there even being a committee in the first place, as their voices for more popular people weren't heard through the nominees, and their voice will only diminish even more with a group's votes highlighted more. The difference here is that, once again, the group would be chosen by the community themselves, so it's really up to them. This turned out as a really long post, but thank you for reading through it if you did. I'm sad to hear that you don't think I'm the right person to host these events, but I hope you can see that I'm trying my best to improve them as much as I can! Even though there were some issues in these events, I think they were still very successful in bringing together the community, and I hope to make it even more fair for the 2020 Awards. Only time will tell...
hey! first off, i just wanted to say thanks for commenting, if im totally honest one of the underlying reasons i made this video was to catch the eye of someone who was in the circle like you, as that would help me get a better perspective on this whole topic as my ideas definitely arent 100% right. that and promoting discussion about the topics in general i totally understand the part about there being too many people to satisfy, and thats just unfortunately an integral issue of an awards show this big- but i do think that making more people on the committee will help there be more accepted nominees in each category. another thing i want to mention is that i think to satisfy people, you cant just give a nominee and call it a day- you have actually explain why you chose said nominee, and i feel like if that was done in the awards last year there would be a lot more understanding on the part of me and many others in the community. after all, its always more effective to show, not tell im glad to hear that the committee has been revamped! again, i do really think that doing this will increase the amount of ideas being laid out on the table, which will in turn give a richer mix of opinions and a more accurate representation of the most deserving nominees. i did see what you said on twitter about giving the community a chance to vote for people to be on the committee, and i think that is a really great idea! this would not only give the community a voice and solve the problem of making these awards an interactive event, but it also would give room for people who didn't even think about applying for the committee to be given a chance to get put on if they deserve it. i'm also really sorry if i portrayed you as being the sole decision-maker in these awards, i just didn't really know who else was on the team and i wasn't trying to single you out by any means. though, i do think this ties back to my point about more transparency, as that would give the community room to see who is on the committee deciding the nominees for the awards they voted for. i think its only fair to list whos on the committee, and that would solve a lot of problems and make the community feel more at ease i definitely see your point on the whole 3-year thing interfering with choices for the nominations, especially for the best player category, and i totally get a player like sunix being nominated in that regard. however, i just really dont get someone like btb getting nominated over nswish, when btb didnt do much in the first half of 2.1 and he basically did his significant things the same time nswish did, and nswish did more. anyway, moving on from that, i feel like adding more people to the committee will help this issue just like it would any other, and the more people the better. on top of that, like i mentioned earlier, the explaining of your choices could help the community see better why you chose one person over another i can see why you dont agree with my point about the community amplifying the problem, and i definitely might've missed with that one, but like i said earlier, hearing out everyone elses opinions on this stuff and not trapping myself in a sort of righteous ideology is partly why i wanted to make this, as i felt like i was getting very one-sided ideas about the topic and i wanted to promote discussion. seeing you say it now, i can see more flaws in my reasoning which is great. i do agree about the magic of the event being lost without voting, as it would just be the higher-ups picking nominees, and i love the idea of a weighted poll! i think this could really help the awards bring out the more informed thinkers in the community that have good ideas about who the best nominees are compared to the uninformed casual player. maybe this is too much to consider, but i think it could be cool if we could somehow make an individual judgment for each vote or something to decide how much eventual meaning it has- that would be a ton of work, though, and i dont think that it would be entirely realistic, especially cause i dont know how one would go about doing it. just an idea, though. like i said earlier as i read your twitter post, i love the idea of nominating other people for voting, as a casual player wont really have anyone come to mind instantly, but someone whos more informed will be inspired to give their thoughts on who would be best to be on the committee i can see why its a struggle with people complaining about there even being a committee, as thats kinda stupid, cause if we let the votes decide everything it would almost certainly be a popularity contest. i think the best way around this is to try to get the community to understand this- maybe you could make an announcement in the awards addressing why there is a committee in the first place, whos on it, and explain your choices and though process for each decision for each nominee. this would give the community much less room to complain, and i think theyd feel a lot better knowing why you guys did what you did, even if you made some mistakes. the biggest problem isnt the errors here and there; its the lack of transparency and representation. again, the representation is fixed by the voting for members of the committee, and this would only add to the level of community interaction and election for what they believe in i dont mind about you writing a long post, i pretty much wrote an essay too, but i hope you read the whole thing and give my ideas some thought. again, im not 100% right, and discussions like these are what help everyone see clearer and understand the situation better, and if my video managed to do that, then i am satisfied. i do totally think the awards bring the community together, and i think that if improved they could be an awesome spectacle to remember. i really, really hope i at least did my part here to impact the awards and try to make them the best that they can be, and i wish you luck with undertaking the challenge of improving them. i respect your efforts, and i look forward to the 2020 awards!
@@norkbork Thanks for the long and thoughtful response. Publishing reasoning for all the choices is definitely a good idea. I believe we've considered it in the past, but it's just such a big task to write for nearly 100 nominees, haha. I'll definitely try to make that happen, though!
I think we should just re-label the awards as "community choice" awards. Make it more clear that that these are people's opinions, biased or not, and are not meant to represent anything objective. When it comes to a community judging which level is for example the best tech level of the year and the one you picked doesn't make it to the top, it is easy to pin it on stuff like "the viewers were clearly biased toward the one made by the more popular creator". Sure, that may be true, but that is still representative of the community's opinion, and it should be treated more as such
To be fair he wasn’t really that big in the community until later that year but if he isn’t at least mentioned in this one than that’s bias in its purest form
FlashLG it doesn’t matter if he was big, he was the best player. Ironic that this is on a norkbork video when he literally talked about it being a popularity contest half the vide. He was correct, apparently.
If there's one person who's an amazing level critic that I'd like to see have way more involvement in these things, I think it'd be Wulzy. We honestly need more people like him managing these things. Sir Hadoken is also pretty good, and I'm glad that he's had the power to to the things he has. Over all we need more people like them.
its nice to see viprin use his popularity to host events like his ccs and award shows, but imo he's just not fit to run everything like u said in the vid it feels like he's a bit biased towards his fellow gs members too when in general viprins still cool though
I agree with your points here, however, I also have an issue with cp being one of the main qualifications that are needed to be nominated for the creator section. A lot of the best creators don't make solo levels but instead participate in collabs that they don't host or upload. Some examples are Sequex, Byselling, Firs, and Zalspr - all very talented creators who will never get nominated due to not having rated levels.
About the date thing, you do realize other yearly award shows will allow content released even months before the event to be eligible for the next year right? that's ideally how it works for the GD awards
good to know! i don’t know much about award shows in general so if that holds true then it was my bad, i still thought i would address it though cause i didn’t know if that would be a concern or not. anyway that’s a trivial aspect of the video
RU-vid recommendations did well this time. This was extremely well made and put together. Very glad that you kept your reasoning logical, and emphasized that you meant no harm to anyone you critiqued. You analyzed the problems but also offered solutions. Just all around a well put together argument that more should have.
There's actually a very very simple fix for a lot of these problems. Have a known and unknown awards, just like they did for the magic gauntlet contest. This way all the popular players and nominations and stuff (as you so rightly stated, npesta or guitar or tech) are separated from unknown/lesser-known players like nswish, who still very much deserve a chance. Similar story with the levels - being able to separate the best creations from well-known creators and then the best creations from unknown creators should help fix a lot of these problems.
One thing I love about GD are the people like you who can debate and argue things in a civilized manner. You guys are great examples for how to respectfully disagree and be open minded. I really think people in the world can learn a lot from you guys and how you behave in a community.
I completely agree with you. Last year at the 2.1 awards i was hella confused to see levels like In silico and digital descent in the nominations. if somebody else where making the choices they probably wouldnt have been there
I feel that with his stature in the community and the fact that he is insanely experience with running large events, regardless of how people think, he is the best option for a semi-non-biased committee. The people on that committee, regardless of skill, have been around since the beginning and have seen the best and worst of the community. They know what they're doing, and introducing a new entity wouldn't bite well I don't think.
Personally, I think a good change would be to reverse the order of community vote then judges. A majority vote ends up putting levels only the community majority knows to the spotlight, which filters out a ton. I think a very qualified committee would be able to pick a more varied list of nominees, and then handing it over to the community for voting, which would INFLUENCE, not decide the final winners. It leaves room for the community to have a voice, but lets us take care of community bias for a large part. However, this of course puts more trust onto the judges, which was presented as a point here to be a leading issue. That I definitely see as a problem, and personally I would choose two or three judges per category (to prevent personal bias) with varying levels of community influence and skill in the category. That's most of what I can think of right now :) Would be pleased to see a response!
Ok.I agree with the points made in the video. I might think maybe Yakobnugget and wulzy might help or replace viprin And to be frank no one will overtake nSwish
I agree with pretty much with all of this. Bias is a huge pressure and e getting more people would sure help. I also totally agree tho that viprin should gibe the show to someone else and he could like co-host or smth, like you said yakobnugget fits it perfectly
I have a more personal issue with the contest because if you ask me I honestly don't care about these sort of awards (Typically the people who actually deserve it get snubbed by the people who are more popular, just look at the Oscars and their decision to not nominate A Silent Voice for Best Animated Feature Film). This is what bugs me though, specifically to the "Best Content Creator Award." I feel like there's going to be just no competition and nobody who does something that isn't stream highlights won't get nominated because stream highlights are the only things that get views. While GD Commentators who take time to critically analyze the community and levels (Such as Lfritz, Colon, you, and myself) are ignored because it isn't stream highlights. The "Best Content Creator Award" is going to mean nothing because I have a feeling the only thing that will be nominated are players who just do stream highlights now. I have nothing against people who make stream highlights, but considering GD just now started doing it (While stream highlights have been around RU-vid for a couple years) I feel like the content that pushes the game to it's limit in regards to what people can create through analysis or coding(With what Colon does) is going to get shafted due to a lack of people behind them due to the algorithm. IDK Maybe I'm just salty over it but I feel like this needed to be said.
I agree that YakobNugget would be the best choice for hosting something like this. He shows his though process in his grading, plus he is a creator himself!
If creators had more of a voice, I would probably rate levels far more often, even though I am not a mod. I love rating levels and giving constructive critisism, but these days it feels like its all going to waste.
ok, so here are my opinions about what you said, plus my own thoughts (and a very fundamental thing) , written in poor English obviously. - I completely agree about the RG thing I'm subbed to him for a long time - The December 19 issue isn't a big deal, in the worst case there will be a level of the very end of 2020 in 2021 awards. - I honestly think the whole "best player" category is bad, while decoration is pretty subjective, there's no way Npesta is as good as Nswish, as much as I like Npesta. I think every person should choose what's his way to determine who is the best player. the GD awards are the impression test, as players like btb might do much less impression of being good than Dora who called himself "the wave god". I chose the Demon List stats viewer as my way for level completing skills and the challenge stats viewer as my way for challenge and short wave skills, both aren't perfect of course. - Viprin is cool and stuff, but we shouldn't accept him as the CEO of the community. and with all the respect to his creations, he got most of his fame by megacollabs and pre-2.1 levels. so besides being nice, don't think he should own everything big on this community, as he is not the biggest creator nor community persona nor player. Also, I spotted two more things, and one of them is kinda fundamental and I think you totally missed it. - The marginal one is that only rated levels get into the GD Awards, making the popularity of nonrated level even lower then it is on Rob's not-perfect-at-all rating system. - I think you totally missed that one fundamental thing. even though viprin and his GeoStorm act like it is, the GD Awards are NOT official. it connects to Whervin's classic video about the Demon List, and similar to the Demon List case, Viprin doesn't act like it's his GD contest, he acts like it's GD's contest. viprin is not the community CEO for deserving that role. he is, for many people, the community CEO because he acts like he is, the same as how Dorami acts like he is a "wave god". the GD Awards were never GD's awards, it always had been a creator contest hosted by Viprin that sells itself as official. And I think that in this aspect, the "GD Awards" is hopeless. it's Viprins show, he doesn't own any certification for calling it official and he shouldn't, because it's his show, and the only way the community can have a real community awards is by making Viprin's awards losing its legitimacy as official, and to establish GD awards by itself, without begging to the so-called "community CEO". I hope you see that LOL, longest text I wrote about jumping cube game politics
I think viprin is not that bad cause he very clearly plays the game a lot but the fact that he dose not really critic levels publicley may make you belive people he dose not do at all , i am not trying to say he dose but i feel like it is VERY important to look at the larger picture and think way beond what we can see , i am also not saying it is a bad thing to just stay on the info that you currently have but i am saying you can speculate too and if you look at a larger picture ( most of the times ) you come with more answers than questions . I am not saying you do not look at the larger picture most of the times but i freel you kind of missed it when making this video and i really hope you will think beond what you can see and i think your content might become a lot more intressting to watch and not just that , it can open a lot of ways to think that maybe you never knew existed, i really love your content and i hope you see this comment and take note of it , U cant wait to see what you will do in the future, but i can speculate that you will have a bright future!
This isn't even exactly related to this video, but one thing i'm concerned about is that there are no award categories for gameplay. I believe that gameplay being fun, fair, and consistent is FAR more important than decoration, which is something the community seems to have forgotten based of the awards, and like... the entire featured section lol. I suggested some gameplay awards in the form and i really hope i'm not the only one who does.
Wow, your the one that needs a shout out, you are like if a historian started talking about a 2D platformer game, It's amazing. you are practically SEA but better.
Yeah, no. I don't necessarily disagree with a lot of the things you say, however a lot of it is unreasonable. The date thing, idc, that's a fair argument - however things like the bias and popularity aspect of things will always be a thing, and that's entirely unavoidable, no matter how you look at it. there is absolutely no way for anyone to not have at least a sliver of bias when judging something. The committee of judges are some of the best, if not the absolute best to look at when it comes to this stuff. Your only real argument for why they aren't boils down to one of the categories, that being best player, which I fully agree with. Last year for best player was a disaster. Though for all the level categories, having the elder mods, which are the people who see the most levels, as well as high profile and trust worthy level grinders like mbed, who is also a moderator on the team to find the best of the best levels is entirely valid, also in the sense of a community vote like they have done for this year. And on the topic of popularity contest, there is literally 0 way around that. You ask for no bias from the judges to pick levels, but fail to see that there is a clear bias for the creators for the people voting for their favorite. Why else did sunix get like 30% of the votes last year? Bias from the voters. When you are presented with 4 levels, community chosen or not, you will vote for either a level you recognize or a level from a creator you recognize. there is absolutely no way around this. While yes, the awards don't have a flawless system, that doesn't mean it's not a great system that works. There are no reasonable ways to remove bias or other things. Hell you even mentioned Yakobnugget, who admits in his videos that he IS bias towards some creators. This video is in no ill faith, but it just fails to be reasonable or manageable. I want to agree with what you say, but you don't present it in a way that is approachable. Having the community send in their favorites, then have the committee choose the nominees is probably the best way to go about it, since in the end, this will always be a popularity contest as long as it is public vote.
Ok so my thoughts: #1: You say that the high community members like Viprin have biased oppinions and that it would be fair to give the awards to a better fit. I would agree if the awards show wasn't Viprins idea of content to begin with. But the whole thing was his idea to unite the community and give his channel some content. So its sort of like saying that Yakobnugget shouldnt be doing the Legit Level Reviews because he isnt fit for that role (hypothetically, he isn't actually). So you're basically saying that Viprin shouldnt be making this content. #2: Going off what I said in #1, the awards are just an idea for content, and mean nothing in terms of Geometry Dash itself. If the winners were to recieve a special role, than I would agree that it should be more fair. But the awards are just content, and shouldnt be taken to extreme measures you've stated. I agree with most of what you say and respect your oppinions. Great video!
in conclusion: xo is the most deserved nomination as it is easily the best detailed and the most fun level and is completely flawless and should be treated as such
6:34 To be fair, Brian is #5 on the stats viewer, has beaten Crimson Planet, and has decent progress on Tartarus. So saying he didn’t deserve a nomination for best player would be a bit invalid.
Today you would be correct, but I'm pretty sure all of those players were below Brian on the Stats Viewer on December 14th. Except for nSwish, obviously
I mean, isn’t that issue obvious? There’s like no way to completely fix it, ik that it sucks and it’s unfair but the community would complain a lot if they didn’t select the nominated players/levels, and sadly it’s better for the community to stay like it is right now
I understand your opinion, but you never clarify HOW Viprin is so biased. What is he biased towards? Who does he pick more? Why does he pick those people more? You need to answer these questions.
yeah you’re def right, it’s totally my bad for not clarifying that, sorry about that he’s just biased toward people he knows and stuff he’s involved with, like geostorm and whatnot a great example is digital descent; i think we can both agree that DD is a solid level, but it’s by no means the best mc in the game. despite this viprin has this belief that DD is one of if not the best mc in the game, and i think that’s pretty objectively wrong. it’s either bias (he was the host of the level of course) or misinformation that interferes his judgment here and in so many other scenarios, and again, while i don’t think he’s a bad guy, he’s not the person i want running these awards because of that. i can give you more examples if you’d like of course i hope you can understand what i mean, and i also just wanna clarify that it’s not just viprin, it’s also other people like pauze who are in this circle of creators that makes these decisions thanks for the constructive comment, i’ll do my best in the future to keep your criticism in mind
6:30 I disagree with this argument. I think it was more about the best relative player as opposed to the literally most talented player of 2.1. Of course Sunil isn’t any near as good as nswish, Rori or mycrafted, but when sunix was the best player he was almost completely uncontested and set a new bar for what can be done in gd. Obviously he doesn’t have the same level of talent as the newer 2.1 players, but I don’t think that’s what it was about.
yes but people like braintheburger were nominated who didn’t do much significantly in the first half of 2.1, so with that logic people like nswish are valid to be nominated. i totally agree with sunix, but someone like btb or even tech over nswish just doesn’t sit right
Think of it around the end of the year or the start of the next is when rob usually chooses to release games or update He said he is done with everything in the update and is bug fixing, he said he wants to release the update an update to world and lite before 2021
I think the reason why you have more subscribers than these top players in Gdash is because you commentate their videos, and they do not. It's pretty boring to watch Gdash content without commentary.
i’m pretty sure adhering you your standards is a good way to judge a level, even if someone puts thousands of hours into a level but it’s bad it’s still bad lol effort doesn’t make something good by any means
@@norkbork never said "effort=good" you are assuming that. also if someone put 1000 hours into a level and applied ideas and feedback from others it is bound to have some good qualities to it. so ur point is moot.
@@YsoCereal that's just completely false, just because a level as a ton of time put into it doesn't mean that it's going to have any redeeming qualities. you basically just contradicted yourself also mind saying why yakob of all people is biased? he's one of the most fair and honest level critics out there, and certainely one of the most qualified. are you mad that he didn't like x steampunk x or whatever lol
@@zcriq1372 i could care less ehat he thinks about steampunk as i find his standards biased and inconsistent...for example he literally praises work made by cairox of all people...his levels literally look like a layout with glow on it but yakob apparently finds it good but dislikes other amature creators that arent his friends. Hmm.
@@zcriq1372 also i never contradicted myslef...i pointed out that the other guy was putting words in my mouth that i didnt say and then i added a further point to top it off...simple
