It was an absolute honor to work on this collab with you. A whole year in the making.... What a ride it's been! Thank you so much for helping to make this amazing project become real. Still can't believe it's finally here!!! (Also to everyone reading go check out Kooki's other stuff!!!!!!! DO IT NOW!!!!!)
Weird to assume that an accidental attack would instantly kill Asriel. He's a boss monster, he's older and presumably stronger than Kris regardless of them being a human, and the most important part in my eyes, a startled trip with zero intent to kill would barely hurt a monster who's already on guard. In Undertale, the most damage you can do to a completely unarmored Undyne with -15 DEF with the Worn Dagger is 1, even on a crit. Undyne explains immediately afterwards that you couldn't work up the intent to hurt her, so nothing happened. The idea that Asriel, who is already worried and uneasy, would die instantly to Kris not even attacking him is stupid.
@@multigrandmarquis yeah it doesn't make sense, Humans as seen in genocide do more damage because of their intent to kill, the more you distance yourself, its gets easier to hurt others more, and get hurt less, Monsters also work that way despite Them being more fragile, they're even more tied to their emotions, Toriel gets one shot no matter the route if she's sparing you, not because of your intent but because she's allowing herself to feel everything, as It doesn't matter If you hit away from the center of the bar (less intent) she still gets one shot, Sans and Flowey have both 100% hit rate attacks because of their intent to kill too
Which is extremely toxic. Criticizing theories is fine, as long as you don't just insult the person. Instead, focus on discussing the points themselves, rather than merging criticism with ad hominem attacks.
@@Untrustedlife I agree. Maybe I should've phrased my comment differently. It's just funny to see how serious some take Jaru's content. But I don't like how hostile they can be.
38:15 i've felt the same, so thanks to you two for making this! i really do enjoy watching Jaru's videos, i dig his dramatic presentation style and i can appreciate the passion and time it takes to craft those theories. even when it gets far past the realm of what is believable or justifiable from what is provided in the game, i often enjoy watching him layout the story as he sees it ... but hearing someone else reaffirm the absurdity of some of the assumptions and leaps of logic is pretty therapeutic 😂
I just wanna say, a small friend group Im in tends to watch UTDR theories and we tend to get very frustrated with JarU's, and never really saw anyone else point out the things that frustrated us. We thank you for these videos, it was such a satisfying watch and we were unironically cheering at many points, it felt very validating 🙏 And just generally, great fucking videos
I think I know the one problem Jaru has, He cannot just say "I don't know" when he don't have a real answer. To him even a wrong answer seems better than saying he does not know.
@@TrixyTrixter that and also a lot of his theories feel very... self feeding and confirmation bias-y. Like every time there is a new theory and he brings up how it either supports or makes sense in the timeloop theory we all just groan in disappointment
“A man is wrongly imprisoned and forced to work away in the boiling sun as community service while the real villain not only continues to wreak havoc AND flood the entire town.” -Super Mario Sunshine
I'm pretty sure Jaru isn't claiming Asriel/Ralsei is the "third soul" discussed in Andrew's video. The theoretical Third Soul would be responsible for, at minimum, Kris creating a Dark Fountain at the end of a Snowgrave run. Meanwhile, Jaru seems to indicate that he thinks Kris himself did this action. Rather, what Jaru seems to be saying is Asriel is the one in control of the Red Soul that Kris removes. In pretty much every Deltarune theory dealing with this element, the one controlling the Red Soul is typically referred to as "The Player," but Jaru has noted that he dislikes "Player Theories" due to reasons I have difficulties elaborating upon/recalling. Essentially, he is positing Asriel as the in-universe character we directly control, even when the Red Soul is, say, inside the cage at the end of Chapter 1, and who, in turn, controls/possesses/allows us to control Kris for the majority of the game.
That's exactly what's so infuriating about his reasoning. Implying Asriel controls Kris, and allowed them to lie about his death, and just arbitrarily has control sometimes and other times he doesn't because Why Not, is just... so bad. Asriel being the middle man between the player and Kris ruins the narrative arc that Kris is setting up to be experiencing (freedom at the expense of safety and comfort, imo), and, like... it still behaves the same as the three souls theory, because it's. Three Entities In One Body.
Jaru believes, as he elaberatoed upon in depth at some point in his qna, that involving the literal actual player as an element in the main narrative (rather than in the separate metanarrative) would imply that the world of deltarune is canonically "not real" and thus devalue the importance of the main narrative. which i understand (oblivion theory is a theory that leans hard into this idea that i don't really like because it does diminish the importance of the deltarune world) but don't fully agree with - i believe there's room for an interesting metanarrative without diminishing the regular narrative, such as via kris's soul being controlled by sme entity that is essentially a player (a demon they summoned, or the angel) that exists in universe for longer than we have but metanarratively does represent the player.
@@kookiautumn1710Okay so I think I worded some things poorly here. As far as I can tell, Jaru does not believe The Player is a factor on any in-universe level. Asriel is the Red Soul, and in turn the one we control when we play the game, but there is no Player Entity within Jaru's theory. Anytime Kris removes the Red Soul, that's just Kris. Anytime Kris has the Red Soul within them, that's just Asriel. Jaru's theory only has two souls, two entities. I'd like to clarify that I don't think this is a GOOD theory. I think it completely ignores a lot of major themes the story is exploring and the things one needs to believe in order to justify Asriel being involved at all are completely unreasonable. However, for all its faults, it only has two entities on account of completely removing The Player from any in-universe equation. According to the logic of this theory, the person playing the game plays as Asriel in the same way someone plays as, I don't know, Sonic or any other typical videogame protagonist.
Yeah, I see what you mean, but I think Jaru's complete dismissal of the player AS an entity is an almost objectively wrong approach. I appreciate you taking the time to try and clear things up, though!
@@kookiautumn1710 May I ask how exactly dismissing the player completely is wrong? It actually makes MORE sense than most of what he says, and I am a fan of his.
I feel like Undertale/Deltarune theories are in good part -whether they are aware they are doing it or not- vehicles for fanfiction, and some people take that way further than others.
This part is much better. I agree with where it's going and this conclusion. It would really just be Undertale 2 and it would ignore some other emphasized points in the game, especially in his video. His timeloop theory is good tho it's impossible to touch it. He does misunderstand Flowey a bit but I wanna point at how he's supposed to be like us, the player. We wanna explore everything. He realizes he doesn't just have to be nice. He gets numb by going further. That's the point where he "loses his emotions". That's why Ralsei is able to be the way he is. I never really saw this as Kris killing Asriel months ago. I thought it was them killing him after he comes home again at night. He probably corrected himself in all the videos I watched from him. This absolutely fills the holes with people becoming worried about him. In his newest video he makes it clear that this isn't a third soul. We're controlling Kris in the meta narrative while in the regular narrative it's Asriel. Okay that's all.
Minecraft Story Mode: The characters' lives are uprooted as they witness the birth of a monster due to one man's unending bitterness. The monster consumes all that they know and love, and as they journey to stop the monster they experience death, a dear friend falling extremely ill and yet even more hardships. After defeating the monster (and the protagonist losing one of their closest allies) they are not long after "treated" to being forced to go through another world to stop ill-intending people. After stopping them they continue world-jumping for who knows how long in search of their home they so bitterly miss. They encounter deeply troubled peoples along the way who have no say in their lives or even their own autonomy. Season 2 features new characters, one of which is suffering from severe trauma after a past adventure gone wrong as he lost two of his dearest friends. He is heartbroken upon finding out a comrade they thought was one of the former 2 companions was in fact merely posing as him and that long gone friend is indeed dead. Later in the season, they explore a long forgotten and forsaken civilization underground. This civilization struggling for survival hasn't seen the sun and blue skies for an unfathomable amount of time, eternally in darkness with only torch lights to guide them. Meanwhile, the main characters are running out of time as the antagonist is committing horrible atrocities in their home...with the protagonist's identity. (Did I make it sound depressing enough while not going too deep?)
The only Asriel = Ralsei theory that I think could work is PlayerCarter’s “Toby is not Annoying Dog in Deltarune” The summary is that since Asriel and Toby both made sketches for games in church and made games with their siblings, there is a parallel between Toby’s self-insert “Green Mage Toby” and Ralsei being similar to Asriel, getting the conclusion that Ralsei is Asriel’s self-insert in the game on his computer.
I think jaru has interesting ideas sometimes but he always comes to the wackiest conclusions. I mean darkners are pretty simmiler to flowey but he drew the wrong conclusion I think a better theory using that evidence is that somebody *cough* couch* gaster succeeded in the determination experiments creating darkworlds
Ah yes, the We are Possesing Asriel who is possesing Kris theory. Very happy you took the time to critique it. Anyway I wanna try the depressing thing. We are trying to stop a man, who in the beginning only wanted to help people until those who he wanted to help started to see his help as granted, demanding it from him and slowly just becomming ungrateful, which led him to lose hope in the world seeing it as ugly beyond repair. He chose to end the world with a weapon a king from 3000 years ago created to stop a terrible war in which his very best friend and companion tragically fought and died. Said weapon however was also created at the cost of many innocent lifes, which led to the friend of the King, who he was able to reserrect through the weapon that was originally created to give life instead of taking him, leaving him. Now that King is restlessly searching for his friend for the rest of his now immortal life. Once we finally stopped the man who sought out that weapon once again to destroy the earth, he, depending on which game we chose, either fires the weapon one last time to kill us all, or to give us as well eternal life, like the king who created the machine, to let us see ourselves all the misery the world has to offer, and to never escape it. While we manage to escape in time, the man get's crushed under bolders, either dying, or never being able to escape again. If this sounds shitty, it's because I'm not a good summarizer.
Now now, *the player* isn’t a third entity piloting Asriel’s soul which is piloting Kris. That’d be silly and strain credulity. …we’re actually playing an in-universe second human piloting Asrirl’s soul piloting Kris. He really hid a lot of fuckshit in his tier list video.
Tangent, but I always saw Kris's issue with their soul as something akin to dysphoria (I am trans, so I see it everywhere, lol). Kris is shown repeatedly that they wish they were more like their family. One of the main differences we see between humans and monsters is the nature of the soul.
I remember in jaru’s knight video, which I like most of, he talked about “oooh what if noelle had a secret evil split personality” which really really rubbed me the wrong way, in the same way that him talking about trauma and using the word sociopath does. I’m glad I’m not the only one weirded out by this type of talk he does.
@Dudeman23rd So he comes tp the conclusion that Kriss is the most likely Knight candidate? I ask because I ha e not seen it and outside of the "Its to obvious and borrinh" argument is just the one with the most evidence for it.
@@TrixyTrixter No, it absolutely does not. It's Gerson but he's a dead darkner like Ralsei, and he has his Undertale battle knowledge for some reason and hates everything to be edgy. (Also Kris knight needs just as much olympic-level long jumping as any other knight candidate, even being impossible because they can't be with us and with Noelle and Berdly creating the fountain at the same time.)
I feel like Jaru oversimplified Flowey as a character Like, he wasn't a dick because, "Oh man, the circumstances around his creation were scary. Dark lab, skull machine, dead kid souls". He probably didn't even know about all that stuff until a couple resets in, he woke up in a flower garden being hugged by his dad And it's not like he immediately turned evil. He tried being a good person initially. It was only after he killed himself, discovered his time powers, and slowly realized he didn't care about the people around him did he start killing people. Going, "Well Deltarune Asriel isn't as traumatized as Undertale Flowey, so Snowgrave is optional" kinda erases that arc of like, why he started killing people. There wouldn't even be an arc in Deltarune, he'd just lie about himself being dead, then get his dead GF's sister to kill people first chance he got.
not just that, he *was* a good person, but his ability to undo all the consequences of his actions as well as his soullessness preventing him from "truly" loving others (which imo is an in-universe replacement for the 4th wall stopping us as players from "truly" caring about fictional characters) I'd argue that if flowey couldn't save and load (and didn't try to kill himself) he never would think to kill anyone
@@moodle6500 That's backed up explicitly by Flowey himself during his No Mercy monologue in New Home. He literally only does his first kill out of sheer curiosity, having exhausted interesting non-violent things to do with people during his resets, and has to talk himself into it in the first place.
Yeah, flowey killed out of boredom, not malice. I feel its not unreasonable to assume flowey wont be a threat on the surface post-TP since theres so much to do he wont get so mind-numbingly bored he resorts to murder to feel something. So projecting these violent tendencies onto deltarune asriel only makes sense if you also want to say deltarune is a time loop only asriel is aware of.
29:19 Jaru's wrong, it's not possible to give everyone a happy ending Even in TP, Asriel is still a soulless flower, Chara's still gone, the 6 are still dead, the amalgams are still monstrosities Undertale lets you get as happy an ending as you can, but it doesn't pave over the consequences of what already happened in that world. It's why 'Save Asriel' was a thing early on in the fandom, cause people were upset dude had kinda a bittersweet ending And also it ignores like, the neutral routes and genocide. Undertale isn't just a story where monsters go free, it has worse outcomes. Hell it's necessary to get a neutral run before you can proceed to TP, you can't immediately do Alphys' date without a reset And like, Deltarune very much resembles like one of those, "Undertale if nothing went wrong" aus. No war, no buttercup plan, no tragic deaths of characters we recognize. Monsterkind get to just have ordinary, mundane lives. Bad things *happen*, but it's not to the grand scale as in Undertale
Literally, Deltarune is kind of like "Undertale if the was no human-monster war". Like, sure, Toriel and Asgore had a divorce, which might've been world-shattering to their two kids, but at least everyone's still alive. At least none of them feel like they need to commit child murder for the greater good. At least none of them cling to random children they've known for a day because they're so lonely in their self-imposed isolation. TL;DR: Sure, sad things happen in the world of Deltarune, but it's mundane sad things. Not events that deeply affect entire generations of a whole species.
Also gaster still fell into his creation and Toby made a tweet explicitly saying that no matter what you or any of the other characters did, they couldn't fix his machine and that its brokenness was the happiest outcome.
It's not possible to get a perfect ending in Undertale, because it wasn't the point. Asriel did many many bad things, as did so many characters in Undertale, and that doesn't get wiped clean by being nice. But the fandom literally rejected that and created their own worlds where Asriel did get a good ending. Then they pretended that their headcanons were somehow canon (when they're NOT).
Chara is probably alive to some extent in the game, and Flowey doesn't seem to be as numbed to his feelings in True Pacifist anymore (tho I heavily disagree with the video saying that flowey only has depression. That's just wrong, it's not depression it's being unable to feel empathy) The six human souls are freed tho, since they were used in the barrier now they can rest
I mean Doesn’t change my point that Undertale isn’t a 1000% happy game that “is afraid to treat you like an adult”. Like, even if Chara gets to basically be alive, they’re still a ghost who can only interact with this one kid. Flowey didn’t get his body back and his emotions are still more stunted than before his death. And the 6 are still dead, at peace or not There were consequences to all their deaths. They get as happy endings they can given the circumstances (assuming you did the best route), but like I said, you don’t get to reverse the bad stuff that happened in this story Also the point the video was making wasn’t “Flowey is just depressed”. It was that his mentality is more complex than a sliding scale of “bad/scary things=more evil, less bad/scary stuff=less evil” like Jaru was trying to push
Not a video game but “A man who lost his entire family to a killer except his sole surviving son who got crippled by the encounter. Years later, the son gets kidnapped to be trafficked and the father must traverse dangerous lands to save him with the help of a homeless woman with memory loss” -Finding Nemo
It is funny to just outright skip Jaru's silly argument because he's using Undertale as direct evidence again but I really think you should have touched on him saying "Frisk is the most powerful determination user in this franchise" because it's not only the silliest thing he says in the video but also shows that Jaru doesn't even understand how determination works IN UNDERTALE. Like not only does he think Deltarune has the same rules as Undertale he doesn't even know what those rules are!! Ahh!! Every human in Undertale has more determination than any given monster ahhh!!! Frisk isn't special ahhh!!! THANK YOU though, for flat out saying what we're all thinking. Jaru's story just... Isn't very good. I think a big problem with Jaru's theories is that he doesn't understand Toby's writing style beyond the very shallow ideas of "Subverting expectations and making us sad." The storytelling he presents really isn't mature like he says he is and I've noticed from his other videos that he only really seems to have interest in characters that have some sort of dark or traumatic backstory like Sans, Spamton, Asgore etc while finding anyone who doesn't boring (AND IGNORING NOELLE'S TRAUMA LOL) HE DOESN'T EVEN LIKE PAPYRUS THAT MUCH EITHER IF I REMEMBER? Thank you as well for pointing out how bizarre and kind of offensive the "Asriel Trauma Spectrum" is too that is just. Such a ridiculous graphic. I guess my own Deltarune Theory that I've gathered from watching all of Jaru's videos about how he thinks and wants the game to go is... I don't think he's gonna like Deltarune that much in the end, honestly.
Something I tried to make clear at the end of the video, and something I hope a lot of people internalise, is that it's OKAY to be disappointed in Deltarune or not enjoy some parts of it. I genuinely hope Jaru can put at least Some of his convictions aside for the sake of not being angered beyond reason by the release of the full game, or even just the next two chapters. I say that mostly from experience, lmao And, yeah, I think it's utterly bizarre and a little telling that Jaru keeps focusing on fucking SANS in his Deltarune theories when characters like Noelle or Susie are... Right There. and actually canonically important to the plot and narrative.
My experience watching the original theory for the first time was like "Okay, seems good", then "Ooookay..... seems fine, there's an itch at the back of my mind that something is wrong but whatever", then finally "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT"
I love/hate how Jaru said that Flowey's trauma is due to being created in an "inhumane" process, which is like compleatly missing the point of his "birth" The reason why Flowey is so messed up is not because he was made in a lab, but because at this point Asriel has been dead for a long, long time. He had to see a world where his best friend is dead, his parents are divorced because his dad chose to kill humans as revenge for his death and whats worse- They have (more or less) accepted his death. Flowey had to live again in a world where he doesn't exist anymore, and showing his existance only brought pain upon others Not to mention the power to literally change the world and the fact that he doesn't even have a soul and you can pretty clearly see why he ended up this way TL;DR Jaru is an Undertale favorist and doesnt even understand the pretty much main plot of the game Jesus christ
31:35 Minecraft is a game where you have to kill a dragon only to abstract you from the idea you're all alone on this vast empty world where there is nobody to talk to, only you and your thoughts about existential dread and the consequences of being inmortal.
Dragon-Turtle-thing turns mushroom people into bricks and carnivorus plants and a man destroys those said mushroom people in thier brickly and planty forms to defeat fake versions of said dragon-turtle-thing
An middle-aged man with chronic stress and financial problems has to fight for his life in order to prevent his business being destroyed by a giant laser
the "jello knife" part genuinely made me think "is this satire??" if it was then his videos would be hilarious also the reason kris reacts to the players control of them but not frisk is because the game deltarune seems to be pointing to the theme of the deconstruction of player versus protagonist, while that was not the point of undertale, at least not the main one.
The reason flowey was evil wasnt because of how he became a flower. It was just a consequence of having the ability to save and load, which made him look at everyone as video game characters. And not having a soul made him unable to feel anything. It's pretty surface level info
Jaru disproves that in his video, and it's one of the rare things I kind of agree with him on. Flowey ABSOLUTELY shows emotions, he gets angry, he gets sad, he gets giddy, boastful, you name it. The best example of it is in the genocide route's version of new home, when he gives a monologue to Chara about how he first felt when he rose from the dead. He describes how terrified he was (which is a very intense emotion he Desplays later on in the route), and then describes how Asgore tried to comfort him when he eventually found Flowey. That, Flowey tells us, is what he didn't feel anything over, and it's understandable. Simple comforting words can't really repair the damage of what happened to him, and it's clear that's all Toriel and Asgore tried, because they did the same with themselves. Flowey's lack of soul never impacted his ability to feel ANYTHING (he felt fear, he felt grief, he still felt love for Chara that being without them was nearly unbearable for him), he just never felt the emotions he's *used* to feeling in any given situation which is, again, a sign of something like depression.
@@kookiautumn1710 i assumed that the point of Asriel as a character in Undertale from a metanarrative sense was that he was a reflection of what the player could become, tying into Asriel's "Kill or be killed" set up for the story, and how that is subverted with what the player chooses. we fall like Asriel does when we treat undertale like a stereotypical RPG and grind for exp and levels. or we get a narratively satisfying story about family and doing what's kind, when we get creative and experimental and go against what we've been taught from other games. I think the issue with Jaru's theories is exactly what you highlighted in the last video, he applies undertale logic in deltarune, instead of approaching Deltarune as a different world, different experience, different timeline, with a different metanarrative story it wants to tell; the player has a different place in this story and the subversion of "our choices don't matter" is going to be very different.
@@kookiautumn1710 Not quite true either. Yes Flowey does have emotions, his empathy is still muted. It exists, as seen with him tending to Toriel when she drank herself unconscious in the alarm clock dialogue, and his attempts to "use his powers for good" as he says, prior to his corruption, but it's not nearly as present as it was when he was a monster, and that is a result of his biology as a flower, not *solely* his experiences from the transformation, evidenced by the fact that he still goes back to an, albeit more restrained, version of his Flowey behavior when he turns back into a flower as seen in the alarm clock dialogue. If there were no physical limits on his emotions, and he still remembered all of his experiences as Asriel at the end of TP, there would be zero reason for this. He would just continue to act like Asriel because nothing mentally would have changed, meaning there has to be something biologically that changed him. You mentioned that flowey isn't a sociopath in the video, but that's not quite true. Literally speaking, he is sociopathic. He fails to empathize with other people effectively as a result of the way he was born, or rather reincarnated as a flower, through no fault of his own. It's just that that alone isn't "why" he's "evil". His circumstances are largely what shape that. It is a combination his difficulty empathizing, AND his inability to die and going through reset hell that eventually causes him to completely detach from the world, and become "evil" in the diegetic sense. This may seem like it would make him less relatable to the player, as most players of Undertale likely experience empathy normally, but that's only for real people. Flowey's muted empathy towards the people of his own world is a reflection of how the player has muted empathy towards the characters of the game world. Sure, you may care about Papyrus, but you don't... "Care" about Papyrus. He's 1s and 0s at the end of the day. Amusing... for a while, but his life doesn't matter much to you in the end because you're real and he isn't. That is what this aspect of Flowey represents. Dissociation and detachment.
@SSL_2004 I absolutely agree that Flowey represents detatchment from the game world, but I also don't think there needs to be a "biological" reason for him to not act like Asriel when he turns back into a flower. While still in his monster form, he DIRECTLY tells Frisk to remember him AS Asriel, not as Flowey. He's detatched from his own identity as a psychological survival strategy. Flowey is the mask he wears in order to not face the hellish brunt of his suffering every day. It's the reason why he goes back to "acting like" Flowey even after everything he's experianced, because Flowey was always a caricature he used as a crutch. Even when Flowey SAYS horrible things after the true pacifist ending, he doesn't actually act on any of it anymore because he learned better now. But that instinct to survive, to protect himself and what sliver of "Asriel" is left as he was when he was alive, means that Flowey still has to act like a cruel bastard, because if FLOWEY can change, that means Asriel can change. For better or for worse. And Asriel doesn't want to be remembered as Flowey, and vice versa.
Thanks for 26:30, I left a comment on his tier list over Knight theories in which he talks about Noelle being more interesting if she was "evil because she's traumatized and a psycho", more or less. And he called it hating. It's incredibly silly how the guy cannot take any form of criticism. Also he talked about being "lectured" and "hated on" on Twitter because of his not-so lowkey ableism. It's weird how someone so into a progressive series can be so callous about these topics. What I hate the most is that I really like his theory on the Knight being (basically) Gerson lol
I've heard about him calling Noelle a psycho and stuff, but I've never heard of the ablism thing? Could you elaborate on that? I don't wanna start hate I just wanna know what's going on with that.
@@kookiautumn1710 bad wording on my part perhaps, but as a neurodivergent person, with a fiancee that suffers from BPD seeing some schmoe online acting like a victim of cancellation for saying that having a mental illness makes you: evil, insane and "more interesting" feels terrible. in retrospect idk if I'd classify it as ableism but glorifying and marginalizing mental illness all at the same time is terrible, and once more, I don't take issue with a poorly conveyed message, the problem is his response to VALID criticism. Sorry for the rant lol
@gastonzumbo9860 I think you're completely justified, everyone with a mental illness that I mentioned Jaru's... uh... "arguement" for Asriel's "evilness" to, had pretty much the same reaction. It might count as ableism in the case of disabilities (like clinical depression fittingly enough) but with personality disorders like what he claims flowey has I think it's just garden veriety mental health stigma. It's not any better just because it doesn't have "ism" at the end of it (I just like getting into semantics lmao)
another flaw in this theory is that if you dont have any attempt to harm a monster when attacking them, you wont deal a lot of damage so if kris accidentally stabbed asriel it would barely do anything
Yeah and if you called him that he would act like he would rather be called a slur 🙄(yes, that's an actual quote from him talking about how he hates people calling his theories fanfic. Wth)
@kookiautumn1710 he has a community post about him promoting his Spamton character analysis video, and in addition to that, he asks people not to call his theories fan fiction. That alone is whatever, I dislike the implication in the tone that he sees fan fiction as lesser than theories(there is an old joke in older fandom spaces that both men and women write fanfic, but men just put the word theory in front of it because they view fanfic as a girly thing), but I get why he did that. Hearing the same joke over and over again would get annoying. In the comments of the community post, he replied to someone else, and when I found it, I realized I had misremembered, and the actual quote is a bit worse. It was "I'd rather you call me racial slurs than a fan fic writer." I took a screenshot, though I have no clue how I would get it to you. Either way, it just took a few minutes of scrolling through his community tab to find it, so if you want to fact-check me, that's where to look
31:35 Later alligator is a game about a paranoid young adult, Pat ,with major trust issues who thinks even his own family and friends, the people closest to him, are out to get him every year on his own birthday. Even with being proven wrong everytime the cycle repeats every yearr. Then on his birthday he meets a stranger who he starts trusting almost immediately because he feels there is no reason for that stranger to hurt him, he gets that stranger to get information on his family and what they are trying to do. At the end of the day it was another simole birthday party. But when he is alone, on a balcony, the stranger comes up to him, Pat rid of all his worry opens his arms to embrace the stranger but he ends up getting pushed off the balcony
my main issue with Jaru's content is that he claims them to be theories when he himself admits they are just fanfiction. if i'm looking for a theory i'm looking for a theory not 'My Immortal' you don't have to bait people into reading/listening to fanfiction, there's already an audience for it. however i do quite enjoy them if you decide to look at them as theories because how absurdly ridiculous they are, sometimes it's fun to be blasted by complete nonsense for an hour and a half! great video y'all!!! really enjoyed it!!! i look forward to seeing what y'all create in the future :] (edit: it appears that he backtracked on the statement that his theories are fanfiction, but i still see them the same way whether he does or not, i would say most fanfiction sticks closer to cannon than his theories do)
11:30 just a nitpick, Kris did shake a ferris wheel when at the top of it, which is somewhat dangerous. However, it is definetly nowhere near the level of playing with knives, especially since they would be alot older in the knife prank. Although this, there is evidence that Kris activly dislikes it when you pull a dangerous prank on Noel. It would seem like any danger that comes from the ferris wheel prank would have been done based on the assumption that there was no real danger, but playing with knives is activly dangerous, and they would definetly avoid doing that.
27:06 I liked your analysis of Flowey a lot, you're really good at considering the facets of a character. I believed that flowey's behaviour was only due to not having a soul, but your explanation was really compelling! It honestly makes me like Flowey even more
i was also going to comment on this, that segment, as a very biased flowey enjoyer, made me very happy. some people just do Not get him and when people do its really good to see
I've watched all of his theories and I can say that this summarizes my thoughts perfectly. I think his videos wouldn't be so off-putting if he could acknowledge that his theories are basically just an AU, but he vehemently denies being a fanfic writer as if it was something to be ashamed of. His theories are so built on top of each other that I struggle to find the difference between it and a fanfic that tries to be canon-compliant. He says he believes this theory the most because of something along the lines of personal preference of this theory's story but because his theories are built upon personal preference and each other rather than trying to analyze Toby Fox and Deltarune itself, with every passing theory his theories feel less and less like plausible theories and more like its own separate story with only a passing resemblance to the game itself. Like, where the hell is the evidence of the CYAN PATIENCE soul being the soul used in the goner maker sequence other than Gaster thanking us for waiting patiently. I don't there is any logical reason why anyone, with only the context of Toby's works, would ever even think of that seriously and the primary reasons Jaru does is to patch some holes in the Asriel is possessing theory and personal preference against stories with a canon audience/player iirc.
This is a perfect summary of Jaru. I feel sad that he and a lot of his fans can't appreciate deltarune for what it is and get so wrapped up in their headcannons that they can't see this amazing game for what it is.
I think this gets to the heart of the issue I take with his overall library of videos. So many videos are built off of the idea that previous videos he made are correct. Therefore, if any of his previous videos turn out to not be correct it can cause a pretty critical collapse of everything that comes afterwards. It feels like he and his fans are setting themselves up for disappointment. When Chapter 3 shows up, if it ends up going against any of his earlier videos, that could very easily demolish or critically weaken much of his theorycrafting, and his earlier theories aren't exactly better in their composition. Early videos that I felt "Yeah, sure, that could be how things work. Some things might be off but the general idea seems reasonable" is already not exceptionally stable, and every step of the building process leads into further and further instability.
@@msgameandcake628 Yeah, I'm glad to have talked about how flawed the structure of his theories are. This is what happens when you overuse assumptions. Since we're only two chapters in it makes sense that we have to use assumptions, but that can go too far. When you're making assumptions based on assumptions based on assumptions, you have no foundation.
Yeah, his use of the cyan patience soul in his last video was very hard to take seriously for me. To quote my comment on that video: "I think assuming the mention of the word "patience" to be a hint toward the cyan soul is a big stretch. The souls have never been real characters outside of fan content, all we know about their individual selves is more background and speculative than even Gaster, who actually has his lore dumped pretty directly to us, even if in obscure ways. Anyone could be waiting patiently. Seeing the cyan soul as any kinda "top contender" to the receiver of that letter makes as much sense as assuming Undyne must have some huge connection to the yellow soul cuz the word justice is in her theme song or to the orange soul cuz Alphys called her brave once. So I have big doubts about ever assuming they'll play a bigger role as actual characters anytime soon." It's quite literally fanfiction logic, and I'd be happier to accept these videos if that's how he presented them, instead of insisting against that notion.
List of things Jaru does not understand: The story of Undertale or Deltarune Toby Fox as a writer The concept of a metanarrative Mental illness as a whole Media literacy Edit, after fully finishing: yes. Thank you for saying that the theory is utter worthless trash. Jaru genuinely doesn’t understand the game. On any level. Heck, I don’t even think he understands Undertale. This theory is bad on a molecular level, and all of his shit is nearly as trash. Spadesgore isn’t happening though, I’m sorry. Now, Rudsgore after Rudy’s divorce….
Hm, like i said in a Comment for Part 1, I have never really been sold on this supposed Ralsei Theory, but I feel like I have never been able to express why i find it so unconvincing, So i really appreciate this Two Parter, i couldn’t have said it better myself, you both covered this very well, heck you even pointed out things i didn’t even think about when i first watched it, thanks for that and very good job, I wonder what you cover next? Regardless, as one of his Subscribers, I have never had a problem with Jaru himself nor his Theories, I find his content entertaining and comes up with some pretty interesting ideas and concepts, The only real problem I do have with him however, is his apparent confidence for his Theories, not that I find it annoying per say, at least not too much, I am just worried for him, He has told me at one point, that if it turns out that any of his theories were wrong, he wouldn’t be too upset about it, but I am still worried, too much confidence can be dangerous, Regardless, we’ll have to see what will be the case the Updates drops. By the way, has you two watched his Theory Ranking Video? I find it very interesting.
I haven't watched it, no. I'll be honest, he's not a youtuber I watch recreationally because I find his tone and pacing to be a bit unbearable lmao, hence nearly every instance of his video being sped up
I had basically the exact same thoughts watching that video, its not a theory, its an edgy fanfic. It's amazing that someone can claim to be enough of an authority on these games to predict their future, while not understanding most of what they're even saying. Also I didn't know anyone else agreed that chapter 1 is better than 2, hell yeah.
I did enjoy a lot of Jaru's Theories at first, particularly his "Gerson" is the Knight theory, but recently I've stopped watching a lot of his videos due to his tacit REFUSAL to even CONSIDER the meta-narrative that Deltarune is setting up for. Gaster cannot possibly be talking to the player in the gonermaker, he must be talking to someone else. He couldn't possibly be talking to us in the Valentine's letter either. And the entity posessing Kris and controlling their every move couldn't possibly be the player despite the fact that WE ARE LITERALLY DOING THAT!! It's just a really reductive way to view what I belive is going to be a story about deconstructing the relationship between Protagonist and Player, among many other things.
Jaru seems to have this thing where if new ideas or views are brought up that might make his original idea wrong he will refuse it outright. Because he cannot accept he might be wrong about anything.
You know I just realized but almost every character in Deltarune that appeared in UT seems to be living a slightly better life with the only exception being like Mettaton where instead of a celebrity enjoying life and eventually bringing their family alongside them to shine they're a shut in never getting that chance...just sketching their hopes only to throw them away later. Also while he hasn't appeared yet I kinda feel like Papyrus is going to be slightly worse off in thise world compared to UT. I mainly say this since in UT he already struggles to make any friends with his main friends before the pacifist ending being Sans, Undyne, and Flowey compared to Sans being buddies with a good chunk of people in Snowdin. In DT he'd still have Sans but its very clear since they just moved into town Papyrus likely wouldn't be able to befriend Undyne or have a desire to befriend her since there's no royal gaurd, and since Asriel isn't dead Flowey just doesn't exist period. Unless we can meet him Papyrus is probably extremely lonely never going out just waiting for his brother to return.
@@capadociaash8003 yeah it’s a massive reason I buy the Papyrus is the Knight theory, also important to consider while UT and DT are different the characters they share have some connections so I have the vibe that since Papyrus was tricked by Flowey in the pacifist run of UT to gather everyone in the underground he could be tricked or mislead about the danger of unleashing Dark Fountains by some other entity that could be a similar type of Darkner like Ralsei…heck if we wanna go full crackpot about this maybe Gaster is the darkner counterpart of Ralsei for Papyrus
Mettaton is even more fucked up than appears, his celebrity self is his real self, but he can't be himself because he's stuck in a Ghost androgynous Body, he can't transition to that, he still has the option to be a Doll i guess
We're going to ignore the fact that if Asriel is really controlling Kris, it's kind of in the weird route that Asriel (possibly a young adult) is literally making emotional annoyances with a childhood friend, in the most abusive way possible.
I find this undertale favoritism go and obsession with Asriel quite peculiar as part of Asriel's arc in Undertale is moving on. His main motivation throughout most of the game is to keep the player around, not let them go as, well, they remind them of their dead sibling so seeing someone cling to undertale so firmly is just a bit... dispiriting
Y'know, the worst part of all this is, when Deltarune eventually wraps up, we get to see Chapter 7 with our own eyes, and it ends on an uplifting note with all our favorite characters present and happy and nobody has to dimension-warp to the Undertale universe as part of a climactic sequence, Jaru's just gonna say "well I was just writing a creative story based on the evidence we had at the time, you can't say I was wrong if I was just being creative" and peddle it as a shield against criticism when he moves on to another franchise. I've liked a few of Jaru's theories, specifically the early portions where he just goes over the evidence, but man, he really loves coming up with a """dark, mature""" conclusion and presenting it at the end purely for shock value on the unfounded idea that making something sadistic for no reason is somehow a satisfying narrative and a worthy follow-up to a game all about forgiveness and understanding. What a shit show.
@@pteroid11 bro literally creates an OC out of Gerson's hammer and ends all of his theories with a _literal fiction written by him, a _*_fan,_* but sure, Jaru, sure. Crazy. EDIT: I just read the post in question and like, damn, who hurt you so bad as a young writer that you insist that your creative outlets have to be respected as fact?? It's like the idea of not having all the answers is offensive to him. Or like he grew up exclusively in a circle that used the term "fanfic" to mean "shitty crack stories written by dumb people". Making that strong of an assertion in the presence of a fandom that, dare I say it, was built significantly upon the backs of fanfic writers, feels disrespectful not only to writers as a whole, but the UTDR fandom itself. I'm truly baffled by this.
your opinion, but i feel sans being from deltarune is actually a very likely possibility as isn't as fanficy as most of his theories. (more because he didn't make it, but still)
Hey, one thing I’m happy about is seeing people willing to question each other in this community! It helps us all grow as theorists, and I hope Jaru sees this. I think the through line with Jaru theories (again also not hating on him in any capacity) is literalism being conflated with metaphorical ideas. He often goes into making what is supposed to be a less direct connection i.e. Ralsei = Asriel, The player’s role in both UT and DR, and the objects as Darkners into something literal. From what I understand, his theories make the preconception that everything in UT and DR can exist only in-universe. This normally would be a fine assumption to make for any surface level piece of media. However, as someone who takes literary analysis classes this doesn’t sit right with me. There is and will always be metafictive elements in any personal or thoughtful piece of literature. Personality informs process and all that. We talk about it all the time, it’s commonplace not crack theory to assume. This is especially true for UT or DR, which both directly deconstruct metanarrative in games. Ignoring that element will disrupt and bias worldbuilding theories which are his main focus. I think he has ways of thinking about the games that make sense, but the conclusions don’t line up to me. It’s almost like there isn’t meant to be one in these kinds of reflections. That’s just my opinion though. As for what I think is important for us to keep in mind: sometimes the answer is simpler than you think. One outlook of this video I would recommend revising for future interpretations is the point about details. Because I think people can just as easily get too caught up in the details to see the forest from the trees. To compare this phenomenon to another theory community I’ve been involved with in the past, I’ll call it the Pink Diamond fallacy. This also affects Jaru, so I still see it as relevant to the conversation. I’m not saying details are not important, far from that actually. Instead I want to look at what questions we’re asking. In particular: “Who” or “How” questions set in the future tense to me are at this point in Deltarune missing the greater point of the roles they’re being asked for. I don’t find it relevant or interesting to ask questions that are ultimately redundant and don’t matter as much as the motive or reasons. I think it’s healthy to be wary and check details thoroughly for game analysis or when theorizing. But when coming up with theories for future events, details about the specifics of said future start to matter less. There is an innumerable amount of ways Deltarune could go semantics wise. Toby loves to make jokes, and there are facets of characters we may not even know of yet. With that in mind, how is it possible to accurately predict the entire sequence of events leading up to a conclusion? In fact, isn’t it better for us to focus more on why it all might be happening with the absence of that knowledge? I don’t like to assume without a strong canonical foundation, and without that I can’t possibly accurately theorize. Creating a sequence of events would bias me towards it, just like it has Jaru. So in that case, thematic and metaphorical conversations just seem more valuable to me versus worrying about how a character would react in a game I’m not personally writing. I hope that was coherent, and know that I agree with most of the points made in this video. Thanks for your time!
Thank you for YOUR time! This was very well worded, and I think it's an important aspect to theorising to keep in mind, so thank you for shedding some light on it!
@@kookiautumn1710 Glad to, and happy to have conversations in earnest about it all. I honestly just can't wait to see what Toby's cooking for us regardless of which theories turn out to be correct or not. It's super fun to engage with the community in this way because we all get to unravel the mysteries together! I'll be looking out for future videos, hope your day is going well
31:35 You return to your late grandfather's farm in a war torn country and meet the neighbor hood that includes a corrupt mayor who is having an affair with a shop owner, a woman who may have had an affair with her husband and has a child whom isn't his, an alcoholic man who is implied to be considering suicide, another alcoholic woman who lost her job as a bus driver and the tire tracks on the road tell a story as well as a scene where she is aggressive to her daughter, a boy on an island whose parents died, a family who don't know if their father is coming home from the war and when he does he is struggling with PTSD, and weird events like alien invasions and witches can mess with your farm Also known as Stardew Valley
Jaru can go on his baseless crusade as much as he likes, as long as it keeps the community sane for Ch3. Its clear no one takes his fan fiction seriously.
These videos were so great, I am one of those people who felt crazy for disliking Jaru's theories and it felt cathartic to see probably the worst offender being systematically debunked like this. Happy to see more Deltarune from you!!
Overall fair criticism. I disagree with it at some points (most notably the complete rejection of the idea that darkners are objects, and then later seemingly representing it as "all darkners are dust-covered objects", despite that i beleive jaru's theory is that dart-covered objects result in a special kind of darkner), but I agree that some of his points are quite weak. He does have a different theorizing style to many others (focusing firstly on what he believes would make the most interesting narrative), which generates some out-there ideas (which isn't necessarily a bad thing; new interesting ideas to discuss are found by exploring the limits of what's possible). He has a tendency to overlook or reject things based on how they fit with his own ideas which I disagree with; though almost everyone, myself included, is guilty of this to some extent.
Great video, although i disagree with the notion that darkners aren’t objects. The whole card kingdom darkner objects not being able to interact with the cyber world darkner objects can be explained with the card kingdom darkner objects being taken TO the computer lab, and not vice versa. This makes sense with the Queen “returning” as said by Jevil, as the classroom has gone unused, therefore they wouldn’t have been taken to the computer lab and seen Queen at all since going unused. Jevil knowing that Queen will “return” is fine since Jevil clearly has knowledge not shown by other darkners because of what the strange someone told him and maybe the shadow crystals.
But why would anything from the unused classroom be taken to the computer lab? Or anything from the library taken to the unused classroom? It's a huge leap in logic, especially because there's no evidence for it in the light world.
@@kookiautumn1710 Well it’s shown that kids from the school go to the computer lab to study, so someone taking one of the playing cards from the classroom to play with while they study or work on something isn’t that farfetched. I’m only saying this because darkners NOT being light world objects is incredibly unlikely considering Kris literally takes the objects from the unused classroom into castle town and they transform into darkners right before our eyes. (Also i forgot to bring this up but thing’s such as posters not becoming darkners is probably because flat surfaces can act as backdrops or physical parts of the dark world, such as the ferris wheel poster becoming an actual ferris wheel, the checkerboard becoming a literal checkerboard etc etc. Also the dark world NEEDS something to act as filler because otherwise it’d just be a void, the red blocks in the unused classroom becoming trees for instance, so that something adds substance to the world)
@@Summer_turtle_The unused classroom is... literally unused though. It's implied it was abandoned since Gerson died, and the laptop Queen is based on is specifically NEW, there's unlikely a point in time when both of these places/objects were being used recreationally, and in tandem with each other. And, this isn't even addressing things like Spamton and Tenna, who know about each other but have no physical way to meet. It's good you brought up the objects being taken to the closet, because that's actually evidence I use often to explain that darkners AREN'T those objects, because if you don't recruit a certain darkner, even if you take their object to the closet, they don't materialise there. If they were literally the objects, they wouldn't have a choice but to come with you, but as they're separate entities that are *connected* to the object, they can choose to not come with you even if you take their item to the closet. Also, on the posters and background objects, that logic holds up but I'd have to ask the same thing for healing items. The "ball of junk" is a physical representation of all the objects Kris gathered in the dark world, meaning even something like Spaghetti Code has a light world, physical counterpart. The chalk Noelle gives Susie is the best example of this, as it's an item in the light world separate from the ball of junk, but still turns into a standard healing item in the dark world. Where and how do we draw the line at what objects turn into people and which don't?
Hatsune Miku project diva is a game where the world has been drained of happiness and music where miku is left without any way to do her favorite thing, sing
I approach Jaru’s theories as more of “It would be cool if this was real BUT this probably isn’t real” I think his ideas are interesting and I enjoy the videos, but they are just that to me cool potential ideas. Also I think the Deltarune community is going ch3 stir-crazy.
I’ll do three! Plants VS Zombies is a game about a person struggling to survive in a zombie apocalypse, using horrible mutated plant life provided to him by his neighbour who is probably an insane scientist with dubious intentions. The story is a representation of how in dire times, humans tend to get desperate and resort to horrible things just for survival. The Battle Cats is a game about colonialism and the everlasting greed of it. Destroying cities, cultures and countries just to promote one’s own sense of what’s right with disregard to the other. Clash Royale is the story of two factions, forever at war, inventing ways of destruction and training troops only to have them die horribly in battle, some of which are only used to distract the enemy for the safety of the King and his daughters. Countless people die in the name of their respective Kings, only for the King to uphold the war and never seek peace.
Ralsei is my favorite character, for MANY reasons. And not a single one is because of Asriel. Why do I love him? *He's a fluffy boi *He's extremely kind *He chooses to be nice even when it's flawed *He struggles with self-esteem and his self identity *He's outwardly feminine and subverts tropes *He is my comfort character that I play Deltarune to feel better about myself with *He has a mystery attached to him that makes me curious and hungry for more *I just like him OK!? And I don't need or want him to be ANY version of Asriel!!!!
I like watching a lot of theory videos for all the things I missed or never thought about. Even if it's wrong or a crack theory, I tend to enjoy watching them anyways. This was the same with Jaru, but the only thing I never really liked about his takes was whenever he justified his Asriel theories by saying something like "Tragedy is interesting" or "the more tragic it is, the more dramatic and better the story is." I think tragedy is an important element of any story. Some stories are wholly tragedies. But I'm not so interested in tragedies that I go looking for them. That's not what attracted me to Undertale, ̶i̶t̶ ̶w̶a̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶m̶e̶m̶e̶s̶ it was how much it *didn't* take itself seriously, tonally-speaking. The tragedy came later and hit me hard all the same by the time I got to New Home. And yes, that drama did enamor me to the game; I adore ASGORE's theme and the fight for how much it culminated the tragedy of the game's story. I still love and reflect on that drama. But thankfully, the game didn't end there.
13:11 thing is kris never shows emotion THROUGH THEIR SPRITE. All the scenes you mentioned were either unused or we only knew they were emoting because other characters say they were.
Sure, but the point is that there are ways Toby could have conveyed Kris' emotion. He could have made sprites or added dialogue and yet he chose not to. Maybe he's trying to hide an epic reveal, but that just feels really lazy to me.
@@shadowhaxor99 Exactly. Like, would it really spoil this "BIG REVEAL" to have Kris, idk, take 2 steps backwards after Ralsei takes his hat off? They have taken a couple of steps without the player's input before
@@shadowhaxor99 In a cutscene unprompted by the player, Kris jumps out and uses their shield to protect Susie from Spade King in chapter 1. In chapter 2, Kris steps back when Spamton appears for the first time. Later in chapter 2, Kris tells Susie and Ralsei to stay behind when going downstairs into the basement to retrieve the Disk. Later when we go back up, we see Ralsei and Susie messing around. I think Kris told Susie and Ralsei to stay out when Kris goes to meet Spamton for the first time in the Trash zone because Spamton tells them to come alone, but I dont think Kris had a reason to tell their friends to stay behind when they went to go down into the basement.
One thing about Jaru is how much he rejects the meta-narrative of the player being a part of the story. Saying that the player isn't actually a being having influence on the world, despite evidence to the contrary.
When I first heard him say this, I genuinely felt like clicking off the video out of frustration. Jaru, for the love of the Angel, you don't have to make up a proxy character for Gaster to speak to in the goner maker. Just let Gaster break the fourth wall, damnit.
@@nataliaborys1554I felt a similar way when I was watching his analysis on the gaster valentine, and he basically said “Gaster is actually talking to the Cyan Soul because he said the word ‘Patience’!” Like… dude… *c’mon*…
I literally cannot wrap my head around this, as well as many of his other beliefs. The meta narrative was undertales THING. Ignoring the obvious setup in deltarune, how do you reject it in undertale? it's right there!
@@shadowhaxor99 If I remember correctly, he argued that Undertale never went as far as characters talking to the player directly, that all the meta dialogue has an in-universe explanation. I have two counterarguments, however: 1. Just because Undertale didn't do it, doesn't mean Deltarune can't. It's hard to say what is Toby Fox's "style" when your sample size of his fully realized games is one. 2. Undertale does have a character that calls out the player directly - Chara. Don't try to tell me that "Interesting. You want to go back." after you reopen the game after genocide is addressed to Frisk. It's addressed to the player. Chara speaks to the player.
31:35 I am NOT joking when I say that I paused after salt said this, and said to myself "well I would but hollow knight just is a depressing disaster" and then you immediately went into how hollow knight's plot just IS a depressing disaster and I had to stop for like 3 minutes to process that and write this comment lmaoo Otherwise, great video. I love all the points you two made
Hold up. At the clip shown at the end of the video, Jaru claimed that Grillby's went out of business. Didn't the green fire girl in Chapter 2 say that a fire elemental handing drinks seemed like a ridiculous idea, implying that Grillby didn't even become a bartender in the Deltarune world?
Which video? "The Player is NOT Part of DELTARUNE's Narrative!" or "Jaru (and Aspen) Going Mad Finding GASTER in Infinite Craft"? P.S.: I just looked it up and it seems to be the "The Player is NOT Part of DELTARUNE's Narrative!"
seeing jaru deny and attempt to argue that the player exists in universe and is diegetic makes me feel like i’m going insane. like even his undertale favouritism would disagree with him. flowey and chara talk directly to YOU, the PLAYER. we are diegetic and exist in universe in both games. i have no idea how he’s managed to justify to opposite to himself. it hurts my little brain.
I’ve had misgivings about this clown ever since he got all pissy about people telling him it wasn’t cool to want Noelle to have a messed up psycho lesbian storyline.
I really like this collab debunking video! I've had mixed feelings about Jaru for a while now. I really like his Timeloop Theory, but strongly disagree on the "Ralsei is Asriel's dust brought to life" theory discussed in this video, as well as his more recent "Gaster isn't actually talking to the player in the goner maker sequence because that breaks my immersion, there has to be another proxy character involved." I've had a hard time putting it into words why they provoke such a strong reaction from me, other than "That's not how good writing works, you're making the plot make LESS sense!", so I'm glad this video was able to make such a precise breakdown of why one may feel this way. Also thank you for getting it out there firmly that darkners are NOT objects. I've argued way too many times in various online discussions why dark fountains could be more like portals to the Dark World and how it would explain darkners knowing eachother and Ralsei's travel to Cyber City and just-- I'm so glad to hear someone having a similiar position for once. 22:10 - The mental image brought on by the sentence "Is the entire prophecy just four Asriels in a trench coat?" was hilarious btw. Most of the quips were funny, for that matter, good job!
You mean them being carried to the closet, right? Think of the objects like anchors, something the darkner is "attached" to, that they can detach from if necessary. For example, even when a non-recruited darkner's object is carried to the closet, they still don't show up. If they were literally those objects, they'd show up no matter what, but if you, for example, choose to attack the Rudinn enemies instead of sparing them but still carry all the cards from the spare classroom into the school closet, the Rudinns won't be in castletown, and that goes for all darkners. They choose not to follow you even if you take their representative object with you.
@@kookiautumn1710 If a Darkner's anchor were to be destroyed, what would happen to them? Is the anchor like a ball and chain, limiting the Darkner to regions near the ball? If it's gone, shouldn't the Darkner be more mobile and free? Maybe Ralsei's object was destroyed, and now they can go wherever, teleporting between dark worlds at will.
I don't think its either freeing OR limiting. Again, based on the examples we have, it really seems like they can just attach or detatch from their items at will. If an item is destroyed while theyre still tethered to it, it might cause them some kind of harm (based on how kris reacts if you try to throw away the ball of junk while lancer and rouxls are part of it), but its just as likely that they wouldnt feel anything as we havent seen it happen yet
Yes, I am absolutely distraught at not seeing Papyrus in Deltarune. Papyrus in Undertale is not enough for me, I need him in every Toby Fox media. Hell, I even don't like games unrelated to Toby Fox when they don't have Papyrus! Please do not take this topic so lightly again. Thank you.
I might be too late, but can you do an analysis on the Susie half human crack theory? I want to see you dissect it and see what you think about it. If you want an example on this theory to better understand it, read the Growing Pains comic. ( also, if it ends up being true, assuming SOULs work the same as in UT in terms of power, this would make Susie kinda OP) P.S: I think I should mention that its the Holidays exist in the UT universe and its implied that Susie (which is written like "Suzy") exists as well due to clam girl mentioning her.
Sorry for double comment: I think it's really telling that in Jaru's "ranking 85 theories" video, he made the baffling decision to rank them based on how much he likes each theory from a personal enjoyment standpoint, and not a likelihood standpoint. Y'know, the standpoint that the majority of people interested in a video like that would be coming from. It's clear he values his own version of Deltarune's potential story, where everyone is secretly evil or traumatized and Undertale is the answer to everything, over Toby Fox's version.
@@user-GuyWhoLikesGames_he_him Maybe I'd be less annoyed if it wasn't Jaru specifically since he's already a divisive theorist. But I'm glad you were able to enjoy it.
19:25 Deltarune comments on different fucking things than Undertale, in this case the relationship between a player and a player character. Undertale didn’t comment on this, thus Frisk not commenting on their control isn’t weird. Also I don’t really care for the player interpertations of Undertale as the game has a pretty clear metaphor for us in the fallen human. Obviously Undertale acknowledges a player (not directly), but it’s mostly done through the fallen human. Every time some one adresses ”us” they adress the name we gave to the fallen human. It’s just that the ”true name” of Chara has been taken super seriously by everyone when it’s very clearly metacommentary about detaching your emotional investment from Undertale. By naming the fallen human Chara you acknowledge that the game doesn’t really mean anything to you anymore. You don’t consider the fallen human anymore as a human, you see their true nature as a character. There is a reason why the true name is Chara when all the sprites of Frisk and the fallen human are called spr_(blank)chara
i think this video almost paints jaru as some horrid person who ruined deltarune by writing theories. i think that’s silly. this video is written like a hit piece, and the comments seem to agree. highly recommend going in with a softer brush. this is no way to criticize. i don’t agree with nearly any of jaru’s theories, but even i just felt bad watching this.
12:47 hey, here’s my personal interpretation of a larger thing within Deltarune - I’m not saying it’s CANON, or even that it’s a GOOD THEORY, just a personal interpretation - whenever Kris emotes, we _can’t see it._ For all we know, Kris COULD be having a big reaction here! But here’s my reasoning. Every time we know Kris emotes, we know because _something/someone else_ tells us. Check lines or dialogue. (I’m not counting the unused sprites because they’re unused, and I don’t personally consider them canon) For all I know this could change in future installments, but I do think it’s a really neat idea.
I was looking forward to someone debunking that stupid theory Jaru made, mostly because of how insufferable his act is, very dissapointing and hard to beliebe the two people debunking him are even more insufferable
terraria: the game where you have to sacrifice your only friend, the one that has been guiding you and always there for you, to proceed through the game
@@shring727 Very funny, but no. The Guide himself, *explicitly* states: that he wants you to summon the Wall of Flesh - By taking the voodoo doll, and doing a grand sacrifice. I won't hold it against you, though. Terraria isn't known for it's lore.
I love a good blue sky theory. Most of my personal running theories are pretty out of the box and unrealistic because it’s fun to think of wilder ideas rather than sticking to what we’re 90% sure will happen . But I think the reason I dislike Jaru’s essays is he sounds so smug and righteous when he talks about them. He’s practically yelling at you “I’m right and anyone who thinks otherwise is stupid”. I can’t remember what video it was, but there was one that was like 2 hours long that right at the end he was like “hey, remember that theory I debunked over an hour ago? Plot twist, I actually think that one’s correct” that got me so mad I had to turn off the video.
Just a guess was it the shadow crystal video cause i remember him saying no shadow crystal can't make you see the past but then went on talking about how nooo shadow crystal can make you see the past because of his time loop theory
@@Lily-ot9ir The first half of the video was grounded and didn't involve any of his crazy theories, then the second half(probably less than that) was him using the controversial theories that not everyone agrees with.
I highly doubt Jaru is actually self righteous or believes that everyone else is wrong, he's just really self-confident. In some cultures speaking slowly can sometimes be considered rude which is probably what caused a lot of people to think that he doesn't like criticism, when if anything him saying he doesn't like them being called fanfiction is because he wants them to be seen as theories and are therefore criticizeable, but he's not trying to be obnoxious that's just how he talks.
I don't think that was a prank, I think that's just one of those things you do when you're a dumb kid. I used to clog our bathroom sink with toilet paper because I liked playing with the soaked paper, no joke. Kris probably had a similar thought process that they wanted to play with a bath bomb but they didn't wanna take a bath so they just... dropped several into the toilet and accidentally clogged it lmao At least, that's what I think makes more sense
@@kookiautumn1710No, it is a vicious prank with ill intent and proves that Kris has the will to purposefully cause the roaring. See how he craves destruction as he flushes the colorful soap orbs... be terrified
@@l0ned1ver95 Keep your blade sharp If you're gonna descend in that well, good luck, little ghost, for you are a shadow of someone you have always been.
Ignore what Jaru said. Both of you are ignoring the most important question, the one that really matters. Why is his name Ralsei? What is the point? And why does he look like a Boss monster? WHY?
Toby said once that Ralsei as a name was based on a character he had when he was younger I think, he just made it an anagram of Asriel's name for kicks I think. And, him being a boss monster isn't that out there? It's likely the design toby had in mind for him from the start, knowing that he came up with the concept of deltarune before he did undertale
@@kookiautumn1710I agree with most of what you’ve said in the video itself, but this comment has really “lost me” when it comes to your take on the story. Dismissing EVERYTHING connecting Asriel to Ralsei as being meaningless is actually stupid, I’m sorry that’s just how it is. There’s a reason so many people reacted “OMG IS THAT ASRIEL” when Ralsei took off his hat, because that’s the intended reaction. Ralseis similarities to Asriel aren’t “coincidences” or “for kicks” there is a REASON why Ralsei looks like Asriel. Also, whenever you bring up in the video itself that Kris and Ralsei’s boat ride implies incest if he’s connected to Asriel in anyway, I think that’s kind of the entire point. We see from how much the (insert character) teas heal that Kris doesn’t like Ralsei that much, they even seem to be uncomfortable around him at certain points. Kris doesn’t feel comfortable around this guy who looks eerily similar to their brother, and yet we the player can choose to force a romantic relationship in them. That’s the intention, it’s MEANT to come off as incestual and gross because it kinda IS.
@3DFella I'm so tired of this. RalseiTea doesn't imply Kris doesn't like Ralsei. Ralsei heals a decent amount for Kris, like a friend they just made and are getting to know would. Noelle and Ralsei heal each other 50 (they don't even know each other) and Ralsei heals Kris 60 (they are getting to know him), and knowing that Noelle and Kris heal each other 70 (they're literally childhood friends who are very comfortable and close with each other) I think saying 60 means you don't like someone is just a very poorly thought out guess. At what point does Kris seem uncomfortable around Ralsei? They're comfortable enough to, when alone, suggest to the player that they hug the training dummy that looks like him, with enough self-assurance to say "you're all hugged out" after the player agrees. If we were FORCING something between them, wouldn't the flavour text around that optional interaction be a lot more menacing? And, god, you're really trying to drive home the idea that Ralsei and Asriel look SO SIMILAR when, like I pointed out, by that logic Toriel and Asgore also look identical. If the swan boat ride was supposed to have incest undertones, why did Toby make the scene so unironically cute? Why is the song called "acid tunnel of love" when it has NO creepy undertones in it (like we KNOW toby can add to music, he can write a really terrifying or creepy score when he wants to), and why is it literally set to parallel Susie and Noelle's ferris wheel ride, as if the scene is on the same wavelength/exploring a similar friendship/budding romance? The fact that you, as a viewer, are uncomfortable by that scene because of your pre-existing notions about Ralsei and Asriel doesn't mean you get to impose those feelings onto Kris, nor pretend that that's the intended reading of the scene, because NOTHING about it is objectively wrong, creepy or offputting if you just realise that Ralsei isn't meant to be an Asriel stand-in. Like at any point in the story. That's something the fandom made up just because they "look similar". I understand my hyperbole about the subject can be annoying, but I HAVE to insist that there's no connection between the two goats because so many people insist they're essentially one and the same, that the only way to get it through some people's heads that it isn't canon is to just flat out deny it. I'm sorry if you find that irritating, but I find the implication of Casual Child Incest to be more than just irritating. I think it's genuinely disgusting, and that kind of implication being handled brazenly and without care makes my fucking blood boil. If I get one more person trying to tell me Ralsei is MEANT to remind Kris of Asriel, I'm actually going to punt my computer into the sun. You people are a bit obsessed with Asriel, on god.
32:44 not to mention if you fulfill certain requirements, flowey won't show up to kill Asgore if you spare him, yet Asgore would still kill himself just for your own freedom. Yeah I think that's a little darker than being behind on rent because you keep giving away products for free.
I've watched only one of Jaru's videos and I will say, the man's a storyteller, not a theorist. He sets up a scenario and tells it in this very dramatic way. And every wild conclusion builds up on each other, so you have to watch each video to understand what in the world is going on. Which would be great for an AU or fanfic, or even other kind of fiction. I think everyone's issue with Jaru isn't his theories, it's that it feels blatantly mislabeled. That being said, I come to theories to understand people's different interpretation of things, and to see what I've missed. For instance, I was too busy in the camp of "Ralsei is sus" I missed the romantic subtext. And that gives me an interesting new angle to think about it all in.
