The Jeffrey MacDonald Case - A Round Table discussion with Richard Cahn 

Wives of Macdonald, Scott Peterson and Christopher Watts were ALL having BOYS! The moment another Male was going to get the attention and affection, these 3 mommas boys were used to getting, they couldn't handle that. They wanted to be with the girlfriends who could provide the monsters with their fawning, undivided attention! Those three are guilty!

The number one killer of pregnant women, the father of baby.

Being pregnant is a real danger zone for women in terms of DV and murder

There was Dr Sam Shepard’s wife’ too

The pregnancy makes it more sensational and helps garner public attention. A pregnant woman is more vulnerable than usual which means attacking her grates against the desire to protect the vulnerable.

RIP Mr. Kassab...

DUH!

True.

Very true.

No mention, however, how strongly the Kassabs felt about Jeffrey’s undisputed innocence initially, and for quite some time afterward. They did the “hokey pokey” ONLY after Jeffrey declined to sit in their home with them every day, in their dark, blinds down home, and commiserate with them, and hold their hands and embark on a lifelong journey of grieving with them. In fact, Kassab was his most staunch supporter. I heard not one mention of that in this discussion. It is odd that it was not mentioned. I do not support Jeffrey, nor do I believe in his innocence. I do, however strongly believe that this case was botched by the Army, and I do not believe that he received a fair trial. I believe this is the reason why there is so much controversy surrounding this case. There is a clear difference between believing him to be innocent, and believing that he, in all fairness and accordance with the laws, was afforded a fair trial. Lastly, I refuse to see Kassab as a hero. Additionally, I believe that FBI’s Ted Gundersen had some salient things to say about this case, which he later learned, and was never brought to light. And I have never understood why the Psychiatrists who interviewed MacDonald’s testimonies not allowed without any reason given, by Judge Dupree. That strikes me odd. My only reason for commenting is because I feel this was not a fair trial. Period. Once again, I do not support this man’s innocence, I only support this statement. Please, do not come after me in the comments as a supporter of MacDonald.

You'd be surprised how many crimes where the murder weapons are "tossed outside" the door, and even many times left in the front yards. Especially back in 1970s.

Because he’s a narcissist

Especially since McDonald said the weapons were not his & belonged to "intruders! They cared enough to use their own weapons but then ditched them outside?! They even took the time to wipe down the items, but not put them "back" into their pockets or purse? Macdonald is so full of bull, you can fertilize infinite amounts of gardens!

@@mysixtycents268 i agree but it still puzzles me as to what made him snap into a deranged demon possessed person that night???? I don’t think the murders were premeditated so something made him snap. Just a horrible story.

@@mysixtycents268 Where does it say that do you have an article on it?? Or any other good information against him I’m doing a project on him.

Dr. MacDonald had always been promiscuous.

Vfc@@denisenoe7927 rd=e s2 a.

Don't forget he was always screwing around even in high school. Night b4 his wedding he was putting a red/black negligee in a carol Larson's car. He was going to go to Russia and be away for the birth of their son. Who does that? Someone who doesn't give a crap. Hes a doc and didn't get his wife a OB for the 3rd baby. 5m preg and no prenatal care? That was from www.themacdonaldcase.com/html/mmt.html

This isn't necessarily pathological. Sex can be a way of giving oneself comfort. He had always been promiscuous and used sex as a coping mechanism.

@@denisenoemyschizotypaldiso3755 What youre talking about is true for some that live in their normal lives, but literally weeks after your entire family is slaughtered, and the supposed murderers are free and walking around? Please. Thats not coping, nor is it what anyone would describe as normal behavior. Sorry, but that IS pathological, and follows every bit in line with the narcissism that people talk about when describing Jeffrey MacDonald.

Guess the MPs didn't track in anything either.

Actually, MacDonald did not have a fair trial.

@@factsmatter8667 why?

I think what they are getting at is that there is some evidence that was not introduced at his last trial. I don't know if it would have been thrown out if the defense tried, but that's what his lawyers will find out. Personally I think it'll be like the girl in the floppy hat. When she finally came to the courtroom, it was a bust. It's like the "evidence" of a conspiracy in the JFK assassination. It's intriguing on the surface, but under closer examination, it doesn't stand up.

@@TheShoemakerb1 there is a tape recording of JM here on YT. Here you can hear him say about Stoeckly: i‘m not sure she is the one, but she probably is. Judge dupree made the right decision in 1979, and i don‘t get why there are still people think Stoeckley was good for the defense. Get the facts, they are all over the place :-)

@@TheShoemakerb1 The US governments last known decision on JFK was that it was a conspiracy. Don’t compare the two, they are nothing alike.

Plus Collette wanting to have a career, go to school, but always pregnant.

Being a 26 year old man with 2-1/2 kids was pretty normal back in 1970. Most of my friends’ mothers had finished having their kids by age 25.

This was very normal in 1970 women having 2/3 kids b4 the age of 22 very common.

its actually scary and sad , this was a domestic disturbance , he didnt come home that day after a 24 shift and say im going too kill my family , i think the bed wetting was the trigger , also he claims it was the younger girl wet the bed , but I think it was the older one and the evidence supports that , thats what triggers this event , also i think the wife introduces the club , after she is shoved down or punched and sees it under the bed , weapon of oppertunity , the evidence says she hit him once also , and he loses it , kills em all , just unreal , from a argument , physical alercation , voilence , murder , most likely happened very fast

​@@anonymous-sg9phShe hit him with the hairbrush, first, then after he slugged her, got an old knife, used for scraping, and put superficial wounds in him until he grabbed thr cub and knocked her and Kimberly down with it.

They were ruining his single lifestyle

Like you know anything.

uh no , its actually scary and sad , this was a domestic disturbance , he didnt come home that day after a 24 shift and say im going too kill my family , i think the bed wetting was the trigger , also he claims it was the younger girl wet the bed , but I think it was the older one and the evidence supports that , thats what triggers this event , also i think the wife introduces the club , after she is shoved down or punched and sees it under the bed , weapon of oppertunity , the evidence says she hit him once also , and he loses it , kills em all , just unreal , from a argument , physical alercation , voilence , murder , most likely happened very fast

TheSabersgrrl Agree!! This issue ALONE surprises me how long he got away with it as well as shocked at those who still think he may be innocent! No way!!

Precisely.

The Manson family left witnesses by mistake. Plus killed women before men.

@William Thompson that is something to consider but pretty damning that his family was brutally murdered. I would use the term overkill and he only had a few non fatal wounds. Quite a bit of circumstantial evidence against him, his story didn't add up. On the flip side of that the girl in the floppy hat confessing to anyone who would listen is interesting.

@William Thompson not really. My huband is an ER doctor and I am an RN, if you read the entire case transcripts at www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com you'll see his pneumothorax was one inch in length, between the 7-8 intercostal rib space and only a 30% collapse. He was in the ICU 24 hours and was let out early to go to the funeral, which he WALKED into, while his 2 babies and pregnant wife arrived mutilated in caskets. I could make that incision. He was fine. He is guilty and his appeals are exhausted. He will die in prison, rightfully so.

Lisa Donnell really? That’s awful. Where do you read this?

@@helenal.7881 Court Transcript. 'Fatal Vision' author. His first interrogation of his story. Interview with Larry King, pretty much everytime interviewed he only uses names when on stand crying that he didn't kill them.

Lisa Donnell oh wow. That’s so heartless. Thank you.

Lisa Donnell do you know why Dr Macdonald and his family lived in such a cramped apartment when he was a Doctor?? I never saw it but I heard it was very small.

@@helenal.7881 Military base apartment. Military wages.

i totally agree-McDonald got tired of being a slave to those females. Colette got pregnant and I think she did it on purpose to hold on to hom. mc Donald wnat to keep up the pretense and also he was Catholic going to an Ivy league school. back in those days- his scholarship would have been revoked if he got a girl pregnant without marrying her..

Dan Berg he got her pregnant at least 3 times. Where is your rationale?

Dan Berg: you are correct with what you said. Although the murders apparently did not start out as premeditated - it started from a fight he and Col had - it's clear his anger and resentment over being married with kids and feeling trapped - escalated it!

Dan: He and Colette actually dated on and off since the eighth grade. They knew each other quite a while

He was gorgeous,she wasn't....a complete sociopath but gorgeous....I think he got her pregnant and there was no turning back.....he wanted out....at any cost....

I couldn't be bought!

McDonald will never admitt that he killed his family. He is too much of a narcissist.

He would have someone believe that he’s unluckiest person in the universe. It’s just an example of the unbelievable arrogance and overinflated ego of Jeffrey MacDonald. Given the facts, evidence, and circumstances of the case, it is not physically possible for him to be innocent of the murders of his wife and daughters. Only in the fantasy world could he be innocent.

Absolutely

He's a Green Beret. He was able to defend himself. When the intruders saw that, they left

@@Bookworm-ye9qi He was an honorary green beret. He never went thru green beret training (other than a couple of parachute jumps).

“Success is the best revenge”.

Yep. I have always thought it was his daughter wetting the bed that set him in a rage to murder his whole family. He is guilty!!!!!!!!!!!

Just like Chris Watts giving his porch interview to Channel 7 after his family went missing. I knew right then he did it, and Tammy Lee of CBI knew right then he had to be brought in for questioning and a lie detector test. Watts was so arrogant he thought he’d pass the polygraph.

Devorah Epstein ---No. He WAS put under hypnosis. I saw a short video where he was hypnotized.

Again, during the Grand jury hearing, Jeffrey MacDonald was asked by the prosecuting attourney, if he would submit himself to questioning under sodium pentathol. MacDonald's reply was that he could not do such a thing because his doctor said he would relive the empisode and it would cause damage. Read "Jeffrey MacDonald's magical mystery tour". If you are a logical person after reading that, you will realize that he's guilty, if you do not come to that conclusion you are obviously a Hillary supporter.

Devorah Epstein --That was rude and uncalled for. Shame on you getting "political" and insinuating that I'm not a logical person. Wow. How would you like it if a attacked your "Jewish" heritage? I would never do a thing like that because I tolerate and respect all people. Your words cut, and they scar. Nice job,

Devorah Epstein -- Besides, I never said he was not guilty. I just mentioned that he was put under "hypnosis" which anyone could "fake." You should be careful belittling and judging people. You don't know me.

I'm not really sure where you are coming from. I looked into the case, did my own research on it, and everything points to his guilt.

Everything about his story is totally stupid and completely incredible (lacking any credibility)

Generally, the biggest and strongest victim has the worst injuries. That was true at the Tate scene. The worst injuries were to Voytek Frykowski who was the biggest and strongest male victim.

He is not a zombie. He is not even a psychopath. This was a 1-time explosion. There is no pattern of criminal or anti-social behavior.

"Why?" is the most important question and you are stupid if you don't see that.

@@factsmatter8667 They had an argument that spiraled out of control and in a fit of rage and swell of adrenaline, he killed them. He killed Kristen because he had to in order to support his story. She was collateral damage. His level of physical, emotional, and psychic exhaustion during that time, his feeling of being trapped, overwhelmed, and resentful - he was only 26 and found himself saddled with a family, pulled in all directions, and then with one more child on the way, it became just too much for him. It wasn’t what he wanted for himself - he wanted the life he eventually made for himself in CA when he was free - the symbols of success: the house on the water, the cars, the girlfriends, status as a successful doctor, etc. And by all accounts, he was an excellent doctor. He wasn’t planning to kill his family. But I think he had grown to hate and resent Colette and his children, as they represented tremendous responsibility and entrapment. Not that he was fully consciously aware of this, but I think he expressed a lot of it with chronic infidelity and constant effort to be home as little as possible. Who knows if the diet pills (basically speed) contributed. There’s no proof of it, but it could be. He was extremely narcissistic and disdainful. He had painted himself into a corner and he wanted out. That’s most likely the why. He had an astonishing capacity for compartmentalization. I would also say he likely had sociopathic tendencies that had been with him since he was a child. There was something in him, a deep rage, that had probably been building and taking shape for years. He was wildly successful in school, almost ruthlessly ambitious, always needing to prove to himself and to the outside world that he was capable at being incredibly successful at everything he did. When he married Colette, I think he needed to prove that this too was something he could take on and demonstrate that he had succeeded. But when the reality of the situation set in, and he found himself in the position of being a father with two children and another on the way, and with his other responsibilities overwhelming him (not to mention severe sleep deprivation), it was all too much - and much of if he didn’t want - you have the perfect storm, a situation just waiting to detonate.

I agree,,,,he wanted his single life back without financial burdens

That and the pajama top and club.

Candle wax on Kristin's bed. Burnt match on the floor in her room.

@@angusmcpherson the female's confession and the witnesses who saw her with the males in a Mustang

This documentary has people believing he’s innocent

You also don't need to agree with a conviction.

I know you commented a year ago and may never see this. If you happen to get notification of my comment, I have a question. I’ve heard JM confirm his daughter wet the bed in interviews. I know you said it’s unclear as to why JM said it was Kristin instead of Kimberley. Is there a theory as to why he would lie about something like that?

@@Jenniferhollowell7777 sorry, I don’t understand your comment. It’s not you, it’s me. Can you explain?

It was her own hair in her hand, by examination

Who did not bring weapons, and brought a lighted candle in from the rain

You'd think a Green Beret could put up a better fight and at least make the living room a gigantic mess.

@@srfotog he was only a doctor to the green berets

MacDonald stated he woke up hearing his wife and child screaming, AND 4 intruders were in front of him.. That means there had to be at least 6 people in the house! Six murders and they let MacDonald live with minor injuries?

He was on drugs. Uppers

i think he simply got tired of the responsibility of being a husband and a father. he and colette married young, had two kids while he was going to college then medical school then the army and collette was pregnant again with baby #3. just thinking about juggling all of that makes me tired. sometimes i get tired of being a responsible person and my plate has never been full like JM's was. imagine what it must be like for someone who has all of that going on in their life.

And he as a Green Beret. Every Green Beret I’ve known would have fought to the death defending his family

And why his wife and children, why not hit him take the drugs and leave. Remember Helena was an informant for the police and a heavy addict.

@@slundgr I do not believe he completed the GB qualified course He did get Airborne qualified

He wanted to be single again without financial burdens

@@nancydavis4618 I thought so too then I looked at the evidence closely He might be innocent Look at ft Bragg and Vietnam during that time Lots of heroin in dead soldiers coming back from Vietnam Just like Afghanistan now Where was it going ?

But leaving them outside the door IS leaving them at the scene. In 1970s murders often happened and weapons were left at the scene and some even outside the door which is the same as leaving them at the scene. There are no rules for crimes and criminals don't usually follow rules. Today in 2018 criminals are more savvy and knowledge has been increased, but in 1970 things weren't always that way. People didn't even lock their doors at night in most cases.

could the murder weapons have been cleaned by the pouring rain ?

Also there would have had to had been more than the four he says as when he was supposedly being attacked in the living room he heard Collette screaming Jeff Jeff why are they doing this to me ? I can see how at least six people could have broken into the house and not leave some kind of evidence of them being there

Also if they had come to get him as he says Helena Stockley claimed why would they not bring thier own weapons? All the weapons used came from that house

@@rebeccamiguel2699 There is absolutely ZERO evidence that MacDonald had treated any of these people, or turned anyone in, INCLUDING friends of any of the Stoeckley group. I find it so funny that after all these years, that this is still the supposed motive for a group of atleast five people, to butcher a mother and two daughters. Even more laughable is to leave the person youre doing all of this because of, with one barely punctured lung, and the ability to describe to police, who did it.

Added to the fact he was on speed and working 80 - 100 hours at the hospital each week.

@@pepperone4865 👍exactly he was working a 24 shift, plus moonlighting two extra jobs, plus taking a Rx speed pills aka excatrol to stay alert "Hello"

@William Thompson It was explained that Dr McDonald being also a skilled surgeon knew exactly how to cut where it would be made to appear to be serious on paper but not life threatening. They also explained that it was a scalpel like cut. Dr McDonald had disposable scalpels inside his black Drs bag🤔

@@jacquelinerussell8530 Amphetamines can also make a person into a speed freak and a paranoid schizophrenic.

He was going to do this whether he was on drugs or not. He’s cut from the same cloth as Scott Peterson and Chris Watts.

Helena Stoeckley herself said that is what she said when she was in his home "acid is groovy."

My grandma was a teenager in 1970 and she told me that "groovy" was said in movies and TV shows, not in real life.

Well, McDonald pretty much DID lie about everything. Lol...revenge on the hippies??? Total nonsense.

How stupid does he think he was

Yes, it’s ridiculous.

Can you explain to me how candle wax got on Kristin's bed?

Read Wilderness of Error and he goes into all of the sloppy crime scene techniques used.

@@bogeyman38111 Unsubstantiated claims and claims that have been debunked. It was amazing that Morris actually brought up Stoeckly again, or that bailiff who claimed that he saw her threatened and was later shown to have been fired before the trial started.

@@zippymufo9765 Plz read the book.

But that doesn’t fit the narrative for those who proclaim MacDonald is innocent and she did it

And why she conffesed later and even gave details about jewelry and the horse? Why did other witnesses corroborated the presence of these hippies and the blue mustang? There is reasonable doubt!

Yeah, Helena told lot’s of stories. But unless her DNA is found at the crimescene, it is useless. And we all know there will never be any DNA of outside intruders found in 544 Castle Drive because there wheren’t any.

@@dianacollazo5987 Youre not intelligent enough to be on a jury, and you have no knowledge of any facts on the case. Youre very typical of most everyone on here that proclaims reasonable doubt. You watched that farcical documentary "False Witness", which was pro MacDonald, and believe every word. Stop being lazy and gullible, and go research the facts of the case. I could literally go on for PARAGRAPHS on the inconsistencies and down right lies on that pile of you know what. Wake up.

@@dianacollazo5987 She could have learned that from Jeff before the crime..setting her up...it was prememidated

He made the as you say it "bizarre story" because he had to come with something so that he would not go to prison for the rest of his life. Colette, his wife, used candles.

When I was a little girl I sat with my mom and watched the TV movie Fatal Vision and came to the conclusion then he was guilty! The thing I will never understand is the overkill of his family. He stabbed the littlest one several times! Why? We will never know!

@@freddiegrace3770 Joe McGinniss wrote the book "Fatal Vision". He was hired by McDonald to write a book in a positive sense portraying McDonald as innocent. McGinniss had access to McDonald's defense lawyers during the trial. McGinniss came to the conclusion that he guilty and wrote the book so accordingly. He actually wrote the book in McDonald's beach house. He found out that McDonald was dieting and taking diet pills and getting little next to no sleep at the time of the murders.

@@kevinhealey6540 I wonder if McDonald was doing meth? Meth makes people very crazy!

@@freddiegrace3770 It's a good point what you are saying. I don't know if it was hard drugs because if he was an addict it would have been noticed. I'm 75 years old and in those days meth was not that popular. However his father in law said that he had a whole closet full of drugs prescription drugs and he questioned whether or not hippies would pass up something like that. Press Read more The three men that Helena Stokely hung around with were found. All of them submitted themselves to polygraph tests and passed with flying colors. There's a good web site called "MacDonald's Magical Mystery Tour." It can fill you in of every detail of the case. McDonald married in prison and his wife is on a campaign to get him free. As of yet everything she's tried has come to nothing.

That is untrue. Per Detective Beasley, the photo with the rocking horse in the newspaper appeared in the paper the day AFTER Helena Stoeckley spoke of the rocking horse, not before. This is in the record and in the interview Detective Beasley had with Helena the day before that article even appeared [interview here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Tnvr0c5ZofY.html (see 24:57min).]

Stoeckley said during a polygraph she had not read the newspaper or seen the newspaper photos. She answered YES when asked about backing into a rocking horse

Anyone who had a drug problem like Helena has a very serious credibility issue.

@@moniquemonicat and what about the jewelry from MacDonald's she was aware of? That's proof she was at that house. Why would she be confessing to these heinous crimes? Cuz she wanted attention? No way!

@@dianacollazo5987 Actually, she was described by people who knew her as someone who made up stories just to get attention.

The motive is the GB training he was subjected to at Bragg! This was a time to hate

@@tapptom he didn't attend an "GB" training. Jeffrey McDonald was assigned to a special forces unit as a member of support staff. He didn't attend the special warfare course. In short he wasn't a Green Beret. He entered the Army in June 1969, he was assigned to the 3rd SFG in August, his family was murdered in February 1969 about 8 months later. Randy Weaver (Ruby Ridge FBI stand off 1992) is another example of a soldier assigned to a special forces unit as support staff. He wasn't a Green Beret. Both men has frequently been reported as Green Berets in the press for decades but neither was, this doesn't speak well for the new media in my opinion but that's another topic.

@@sgtcwhatley I fully understand he did not GO THRU the official GB course, but being attached to that SF Group, he was in fact subjected to the rigors and harassment that came w that territory. That may have been enough to set him off! I know that OCS in itself was difficult and I saw how that training affected me. I don’t recommend any of it to anyone!

@@tapptom ??

@@sgtcwhatley ok so he wasn’t a real GB! What are you suggesting about his actions that night?

Another family annihilator....same family dynamics as Chris Webb....2 daughters, wife pregnant......

It may not be interesting to you, but it certainly was and is considered interesting to quite a lot of people. Why bother watching, if you’re not interested?

@@UnoHoo1 i agree. i've always found this case to be interesting no matter how much i've revisited it over the years. there are some cases that continue to draw me in and this is definitely one of them.

​@@lisabradford8180What are the other cases?

I think the pills had something to do with the rage that caused him to brutally slaughter Collette. I think that Kim was killed accidentally and when he realized that she was dead he knew he would have to kill Kristen to make people believe his story as to what happened. The things that make me sick about the guy is the over-kill of Collette he stabbed her 21 times with the ice pick AFTER she was dead. The fact that he still sits in prison telling any media outlet who will listen that he's innocent makes me sick. I wish he would admit to what he did but he never will we will have to hear about this case until he dies because he just won't go away.

Christine, I have spent more time than I should admit reading about this case. You said it well, he is so guilty it stinks. And I too think he was high and flipped out. This, of course, is no excuse.

Misty Waters 5

No matter how much you hate him, if you seek the truth one still must address why both Helen Stockely and her boyfriend confessed to the murders, the candle wax found on the living room floor, the blond wig hair on the brush by the phone in the house, and why she seen by the MP at the murder scene, a civilian on an army base at 4:30am, and even Greg Mitchell made a death bed confession of the murders to witnesses including his priest. Try not to hate, it only destroys you, hate is a cancer that pollutes a heart and spreads to the rest of the body and soul.

Oh please, yes she confessed and recanted, confessed and recanted, confessed and recanted some more and none of her confessions match the evidence found in the home. She was also harrassed and coerced by Ted Gunderson and Bernie Segal. Mitchell did not make a death bed confession. Someone is misinforming you. Regardless none of his DNA was found on the evidence tested in 2007. Lots of candle wax was found as the MacDonalds liked to burn candles. Some was found on the washer in the UR. None of it was fresh, it had household debris in it. The saran fibre found in the hairbrush most likely came from the girls brushing their dolls or could have been from Colette's blonde "fall" as they were called in 1970, but it was not from a wig, wigs weren't made with saran fibers back then. She was not seen by an MP near the murder scene. The MP who's name is Ken Mica saw a women wearing a floppy hat and a raincoat. He actually remarked she had nice legs. MacDonald claims the woman in his house was wearing knee high boots. Both Mitchell and Stockeley have been posthumously exonerated since none of their DNA was found on the evidence tested. I suggest you learn the evidence, when you do you will see what most of us have, MacDonald is an ice pick baby killer.

Not sure if having affairs would destroy his career. Maybe the military looks down on that sort of thing. But men have always gotten away with having affairs. Just look at executives at companies.

Not only that, but there were club fibers found on that hair indicating whoever's hair that was, killed Colette.

It was not his hair. And that evidence disappeared.

It was shown to be her own hair.

jude999, it was his hair. There was a piece of hair found under Colette's fingernail. DNA proved it belonged to MacDonald.

jude999, DNA tests on the hair found clutched in Colette's hand proved to be from her killer, Jeffrey MacDonald so yes it was his hair, I don't know how you claim the opposite.

She is innocent too.

He had just read a magazine story ( not in the Esquire) about a chick in an LSD orgy....with 3 men

And was this woman with anyone, who were armed with bats?

Fort Bragg is an open base and that could have been anyone in a floppy hat.. Back in that time those hats were popular for women to wear usually while it was raining instead of an umbrella.. There is no evidence ever found she or anyone else was in the home... Helena Stockley was a severe drug addict and her mind was completely fried from the years of drugs she had done.. Her testimony was not reliable or accurate.. That is why she never testified.. In fact Macdonald's lawyer was trying to get her to confess to the crimes and she denied ever being there in front of 5 witnesses at the law office, including Joe Mcginnis who wrote the book, "FATAL VISION"...

@William Thompson Old and dried candle wax, the kind used on birthday cakes. It does not prove that there were intruders, and nothing of Helena Stoeckley and Greg Mitchell (two of the people accused by MacDonald and his camp) was found inside the house. No hairs, blood, DNA, etc.

I always surmised that when MacDonald went outside to dispose of the weapons or maybe looked outside to see if someone was coming bc of the noise that he saw the girl in the floppy hat. He then placed her at the scene bc maybe someone would have seen her outside (in this case, the MPs) and this would help verify his story.

@@Everythingis22 i agree. And to all who give much on the so called Stoeckley confession: she can confess all she wants. As long as her DNA was not found at the crimescene, it is completely worthless.

Tell us some stories!

Oooooh, really?? What can you share with us? I've been interested in this case since the early '80s.

Well? Where’s the story?

Please share

Very interested in hearing about Macdonald. Please Email us at: ceoaetn@gmail.com so that we may exchange contact info. Thanks!

I think they stem from the same military/intelligence programs. Jeff MacDonald was on a base that we now know the government and CIA were running all kinds of experiments on service members and civilians. Some had no clue they were even part of an experiment. When you look into MK ultra, it answers all those “whys” and “how’s.”

Don’t believe everyone in the military is crazy.

Yes, there have been dozens - Chris Watts, Lisk, families in France like the DuPont family, still others over here including Spangler, Bishop, Jeremy Bamber (nightmarish UK case), Scott Peterson killing his very pregnant wife Laci at Christmas and throwing her into SF bay....all horrific...

Ted Gunderson!!!

And Scott Peterson!

3 vehicles were seen in the neighborhood parked with engines running people talking at the time of the murders

Not true at all!!! There was a wig hair, that was at the time written off as a doll hair! Also exculpatory evidence not shared with the defense.

@@Shayitisntso You are way late to the forensic party. During the 1990 and 1992 appellate process, Jeffrey MacDonald's lawyers argued that three saran fibers found at the crime scene was evidence of a wig-wearing intruder. Intruder suspect Helena Stoeckley made several post-trial statements claiming that she wore her wig to 544 Castle Drive on February 17, 1970. Stoeckley, however, testified under oath at the 1979 trial that she wasn't wearing her wig on the night of the murders. The three saran fibers were 24, 22, and nine inches in length. All three fibers were found in a clear-handled hairbrush located in the dining room next to Colette's purse. In 1974, Paul Stombaugh analyzed these three fibers, and labeled them as FBI Exhibits Q46 and Q49. Stombaugh listed the fibers as "synthetic filament yellow, type used on dolls, Halloween costumes, etc." A 4th fiber found in Colette's hairbrush was matched to a wig owned by Colette MacDonald. In 1990, FBI Special Agent Robert Webb analyzed the fibers and concluded that the 24-inch and nine-inch saran fibers differed in chemical composition to the 22-inch saran fiber. This indicated that the three saran fibers came from two different source materials. In terms of dolls being the source material for the three saran fibers, Kristen MacDonald had 20 dolls in her collection, and Kimberley had several dolls of her own. In 1990, hair and fiber expert Michael Malone matched the 24-inch saran fiber to doll hair in the FBI's exemplar collection and none of the saran fibers matched any wig exemplar in the FBI's reference collection. There were also two platinum-colored synthetic hairs found in hairbrushes at the crime scene and Malone matched these synthetic hairs to a fall owned by Colette MacDonald. In 1992, the U.S. Department of Justice sent a post-argument letter to MacDonald's defense team. In regards to Malone's fiber analysis, the government stated that "Examiner Malone added that standard references that he had consulted do not reflect the use of saran fibers in human cosmetic wigs." The letter also addressed the claim that the 22-inch and the 24-inch saran fibers were too long to be doll hair. The government stated that "doll hair is doubled or looped when placed in the skull of a doll. A 22-inch fiber, therefore, is consistent with an 11-inch hair strand on a doll. Appellant has never attempted to rebut this explanation." macdonaldcasefacts.com

You are so correct. Forensic evidence don’t lie. McDonald lied also about catching one of the hippies and killing him. I don’t believe McDonald planned the killing. He went ape shit shit and did it

A statistical anomaly that makes this case fascinating to reconstruct....the victims solved it with their own blood

He kept getting interrupted.I'm sure he would have gotten to it. Wish they had let him finish bc very interesting

Yeah I noticed that too about his statement of 4 intruders and seeing them while saying wife was yelling...not making sense.

Well the movie was written by someone with a bias. It was also a movie, I would suggest deep diving into the case, reading transcripts yourself, going over all the public official documents, etc. There’s even somethings the movie left out.

@@virgie4715 He's guilty as sin..he's sick

Agreed. How about ANY evidence of ANY intruder? Forget even the supposed fight, what about ONE muddy footprint? ONE hair from one of the killers? MacDonald is running around this apartment, supposedly giving mouth to mouth, and leaving his bloody footprints all over the place, yet these atleast FIVE killers, who trounced around in the same crime scene, LEAVE NOTHING. Not ONE shoe print. Its laughable.

i couldn't agree more. all the things you mentioned plus the greeting cards on top of the hutch didn't fall off while he was fighting for his life? really? he is full of BS.

@@lisabradford8180 If you ever get a chance go look at the appearance he made on the Dick Cavett show back in the 70's. Nothing he said and nothing in his tone or facial expression is indicative of someone who has had that kind of loss. He's borderline jovial. Listen maybe he's the unluckiest guy in the world and was wrongly convicted but I'll never believe so.

@@ivandesantis858 i've seen that video and you are right again. you wouldn't believe that this is a man whose entire family was murdered. i've never believed he was innocent and never will. i haven't seen one thing that points away from him being the killer in all of these years.

@@lisabradford8180 Yeah you know I feel the same way about the Scott Peterson case in that sure maybe the stars aligned and all the circumstantial evidence just fell unluckily against him but there's just too many factors that make me disbelieve him and you want to talk about horrible body language he may have been worse than MacDonald in that category.

I believe he must proclaim his innocence to "protect" Colette. If he admitted guilt, he would have to admit what she did that night that set off his rage. It is likely she acted and spoke in a very uncharacteristically nasty manner. He can't admit that the "epitome of womanhood," as he called her, behaved in a crude and nasty manner under the stress of anger, fatigue, and possibly jealousy.

@@denisenoemyschizotypaldiso3755 That is ridiculous. If you know even a little about the type of man Jeff is you would know that the types of things you said have never and would never occur to him.

@@kdub7195 I read "Fatal Vision" and other writing on the case. I have seen him interviewed. I know exactly what type of man he is. The only way to explain this horror is to realize that he couldn't stand hearing something crude fr/Colette and had to, in effect, destroy her in order to save the ideal of her. That is also why he proclaims his innocence. If he admits guilt, he must (at least by his lights) smear her memory by saying what she said or did that led to the argument. I am not smearing her. I believe she was a very nice lady. But under stress, something uncharacteristic could happen.

@@denisenoemyschizotypaldiso3755 It's rare to find anyone on here that will reply with a well thought out response that provides data or facts as to their position on the subject being discussed. I appreciate you doing so as it opens the door for further discussion and an opportunity to learn a thing or two.

@@denisenoemyschizotypaldiso3755 As for a response, my comment was based on my own personal experiences. I spent 22 years on active duty and found that the majority of operators share a lot of the same traits as Jeff, myself included. For the most part those traits serve you well in that line of work, but some go too far with it. It's clear that Jeff was one of those, especially when you consider the fact that he was also a doctor. So, when you say you know exactly the type of man he is, I tend to think I have a better understanding than most. Again, I appreciate your response and I'm looking forward to reading the book you suggested.

Every kitchen in America has knives in it.

how come nobody in jail has killed this idiot yet

GOOD QUESTION NANNY

@@maniacnanny6156 He's a free doctor in jail.

Damn lady too loud

Yep. He was a colonel.

Yes I believe he knew of her and the others and had seen them around and knew what the cult stood for. I think he wove them into his story. Stoakley was so high on drugs , I believe she believes she was there.

@@fionareynolds1560 Ted Gunderson said she testified she was there! He’s retired FBI working the case for McDonald I think in 1970 the USA was full of deceit during Vietnam They were flying dead soldiers back w their body cavities full of Heroin Ft Bragg during that time was open and full of drugs The USA military could not and would not let this be know Top military including generals were running those drugs for profit If that’s true then they knew McDonald had to take the fall Why after 45 years is he still trying to get a retrial ? It’s dosent add up The USA military was evil then in 1970 and evil now in Afghanistan after 20 fooking years cultivating poppy NO there’s more here

@@tapptom couldn’t clear MEPS, huh?

@@amandanegrete1306 MEP’s????

There's two other Chris's, Chris Coleman, Chris Longa,

Only foot impression was MacDonald bare, bloody footprint

And he was using speed when he killed his family

And Collette hit him with a hair brush and MacDonald snapped

So you can never be on a jury because you lack the fortitude to make a decision based on evidence. You doubt...ahead of time. If you can't make a decision don't blame others for their ability to reach a verdict. Weakness isn't a virtue, nor is blaming others for not being as weak as you.

@@denroy3 No. I might be sure beyond a reasonable doubt of certain things. But that isn't the same as being 100% sure. Nothing I've said has anything to do with weakness or strength, it has to do with certainty. Certainty is neither strong nor weak.

You are 100%, correct, and you are a very strong person. I actually thought McDonald was guilty at first, but now I know he is 100% innocent. And I can see why Ted Gunderson backed him up. He even Shockley came out on tape and admitted that she and her evil group did the killings just like McDonald said.

And McDonald’s wounds were not superficial like the government said, they actually almost killed him.

And he's doing the time.

agreed. He got sick and tired of Colette and the girls

Whose knows what else was going on at Fort Bragg at that time under the radar?

That was the case of Kathryn Eastburn and her two little girls. She was raped and murdered by Timothy Hennis while her husband was out of town for some sort of military training. The family was about to relocate overseas in connection with her husband’s service, and she advertised that they were giving away their dog because they couldn’t bring it with them to the UK. The ad for the dog was answered by a sergeant named Tim Hennis. Katie Eastburn was an attractive woman, and Hennis knew her husband was not at home, so after taking the dog he later returned in order to assault her. It appears that her two older children awoke during the assault and were murdered by Hennis to eliminate witnesses. Unbearably, Katie Eastburn probably knew the danger her children were in, just like Colette MacDonald did. The only reason there was a survivor in the Eastburn case was because the third child was a baby of less than two years (not a grown man like Jeffrey) who probably slept through the murders. If Hennis knew the baby was there, he likely felt she couldn’t be a witness against him and so didn’t feel the need to kill her. In MacDonald’s case, the murders of Colette and Kimberley were impassioned/impulsive while the killing of Kristen was deliberate and intentional. Not being part of the original assault, she could have been spared like the youngest Eastburn, but her killer consciously, coldly and deliberately decided to kill her, anyway. In that case, the murder of Kristen was part of a family annihilation with deeply personal motivations, a result of extreme resentment and a desire to be free of the obligations created by a shotgun wedding and three unplanned pregnancies. Hennis had no similar motivations in his murders of the Eastburn children, so it is not surprising that he left one of the girls alive, the one who either slept through what happened and thus escaped his notice, or who could not provide a witness against him. Two very different killers with very different motivations. And yes, the cases have been compared many times by many people. Jeffrey MacDonald’s supposed marauding hippies purposely went into his kids’ rooms and targeted them for murder, yet the killers of the Eastburns did no such thing to Katie Eastburn’s youngest child. Even if one believes MacDonald and Hennis are innocent (and Hennis certainly has his defenders like MacDonald), one would have to concede that the two cases are too different to have been committed by the same person or people. Katie was raped; Colette was not. Colette was pregnant; Katie was not. Colette’s husband was home; Katie’s was not. Colette’s children were found in their beds; Katie’s were not. Both cases present extremely interesting legal issues, including questions of Double Jeopardy. In both cases, the murderers nearly got away with their crimes. In both cases, the murderers were able to live free for many years before finally being brought to justice. In both cases, the killers have fan clubs comprised of both legal professionals and lay people who believe they should walk free. But ultimately, both cases are conclusively solved and adjudicated and are totally unrelated.

director of FBI resigned in disgust because overwhelming evidence was ignored and he was told to stand down. who tells an FBI director to stand down? he claimed in his investigation he discovered those involved were involved in heroin trafficking from Nam. there is a great deal of his testimony was corroborated by local law enforcement and military police.

@@jasonparrish8796 The problem with this theory is that it has nothing to do with the Macdonald case.. Drug dealers may have been a problem at Fort Bragg just like it is all over the country... That had nothing to do with this case... There was no physical evidence showing that there was any intruders in the Macdonald home that night... Macdonald's own accounts and testimony especially at the article 32 hearings never matched the physical evidence at the crime scene.. .We must not forget the Macdonald made several contradictory statements which were proved to be not factual or just utter lies... The crime has been 50 years old now and not one person has ever been found to back Macdonald's accounts, that is simply because he was the lone murderer that night, which most likely was a result of a domestic violence situation that spun way out of control... Physical evidence does not lie, people do... Macdonald was justly convicted and he is where he belongs. One last thought before you bring up Helena Stokley, her testimony was proven to be unreliable given the fact of her drug use and known behavior at the time, and infact when she did finally get clean for a brief time before her death; she admitted she had never been in the Macdonald house and that Bernie Segal was trying to create reasonable doubt by having her state she was there that night... Joe Mcginnis (the author of Fatal Vision) also in interviews stated something similar about Helena....

What about MacDonald’s second wife who married him n prison and dedicates her life to his “innocence?”

The same people who say OJ is innocent.

@@thedarkknight7287 Notice how he doesnt answer you, or any of the logical points you make? Classic for anybody who claims reasonable doubt or MacDonalds innocence on here. They cant back up any of these absurd theories with any facts, nor can they deny with any type of logic, why there is absoluely ZERO evidence of anybody other than MacDonald being in that apartment that night. Its simply amazing to me how stupid and gullible people can be.

she heard it from one of the cops

It was a rocking HORSE, not chair.

How was MacDonald's trial not a fair one?

4 intruders and subconsciously he is telling the truth because his Wife; pregnant & two daughters were the intruders in HIS LIFE. This is your MOTIVE. copied from above