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something for a future Q&A At some point you told how the Klingons would capture some Romulan ships from the raids and this would be further pushed when during the Klingon civil war the Romulan would just give some older ships to the House of Duras, 1st were ever any Daeinos capture or donated as they might be the only thing that could be fielded in large numbers to counter the Vor'cha in the civil war. 2nd would any Romulan ships be used by the Klingons in the dominion war (I could see a fleet made solely on Romulan ships). 3rd we see the Daeinos class re-enter service in the Romulan fleet, is this only for one fleet as to not tie down the others while bosting numbers. (Also are we going to see the B12 in a battlespace episode)
i am still unsure why the Klingons did not refit the 22nd century bird of prey you said it has many disrupters so i say why not replace them with modern ones ? and better Torpedos if done it could still be used maybe even up to the dominionon war as a light scout or tug it does not make sense that they did not upgrade the weapons
Say that three K'Vort class ships would able to do same damage if the USS Enterprise D in Yesterday Enterprise took offensive at best taking into account that USS enteprise D able to destroy a K'vort class warship in few seconds maybe need help photon torpedoes . We talk basic first K;Vort class warship gone in few seconds. Few minute recharge the phasers second ship either destory or knock out act next few minutes the third ships either knock out action or destroyed. Another between 6 and 10 K'Vort class warship. As Riker put the Kligion so confident after pacing we gave Archer IV if what saw in the final battle Yesterday Enterprise epidote says anything like closer masive slaughter of kligions.
That makes a lot of sense with what we see in the wider strategic situation in Yesterday's Enterprise- a squadron of K'vorts essentially big game hunting, in between major engagements
Fun fact: When in 1991 the model kit of the new Klingon Battlecruiser from "Star Trek - The next generation" came out, it was called in the building instructions the "K'Vort" class. But while filming the third season episode "Yesterday's Enterprise" the model for new battlecruiser wasn't ready. So they used the good old Bird-of-Prey from Star Trek III and named it the K'Vort class. When some episodes later - at the beginning of the forth season - the new cruiser appeared in the episode "Reunion" it was given a new name: the "Vor'cha" class.
An intriguing notion. Having K'vorts be akin to interwar battlecruisers while the Norgh is more of a heavy frigate. I wonder if the Klingons ever thought of making a BoP that was the size of a D'deridex, just for the fun of it?
I always thought of the bigger BOPs as commerce raiders, with speed and firepower sufficient to handle a typical patrol encounter but would run from a serious fight.
Getting a World of Warships ad sold to me by Bobby Bacala during his weird time shift both back to 1945, AND into a alternate timeline in the Star Trek time line. Darn lucky we are!
🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely well executed and informatively explained and well done in every detail way shape and form and format on this subject matter on the K'vort & Norgh Heavy classes of Birds of Prey and the various other Birds of Prey and Klingon Vessels explained within in the format of this discussion set forth by you guys indeed Sir!,👌.
I remember a friend of mine being confused why "K'Vort class battlecruisers" from "Yesterday's Enterprise" were Birds of Prey. I had to advise them that the term "battlecruiser" refers to "type" and types can be changed. Many us destroyers were redesignated as frigates in the 20th century for example. Clearly, the K'Vorts in that timeline had undergone a similar change in type.
@darthrevan1281 Well I don't remember them being referred to as "light cruisers" during the Dominion War. I do remember the B'Moth still being referred to as a battlecruiser in "Soldiers Of The Empire."
@darthrevan1281 It was, I just don't think it can be ascertained from ST: DS9, particularly since they were still called "battlecruisers." However, the term itself may have been demoted with the advent of the "attack cruiser" (namely, the Vor'Cha class).
I love the K'vort-class ships. They gave a Galaxy-class a true test. However, in Yesterday's Enterprise, which class of ship was it scouting the Federation ships? It looks like a K'vort, but I can't tell?
I myself from watching "Yesterday's Enterprise" would very much have to say that they definitely are K'vort Class BOPs considering their sizes next to the Enterprise-D & C in that episode indeed!.
Now that's a decent attempt at an Italian mobster accent. I bet there are a few K'Vorts around during the Dominion War. I wonder if a flotilla of K'vorts can overwhelm a Jem'Hadar Battlecruiser?
Report from the 3rd Combined Order's deep penatration mission into Klingon space. Day 15: Our force was detected and engaged by a wing of F5 M's. Then the K'Vort's decloaked behind us.
That engagement either ends like: "After the destruction of several Galors and an entire squadron of Jem Hadar attack ships, we withdrew as several Jem Hadar attack ships did their duty for the Founders and rammed several Klingon vessels, covering our retrograde movement. It was foolish for the Vorta to not anticipate an ambush, considering the design of Birds of Prey." Or: "As expected, as is their SOP, the Klingon cruisers de-cloaked to the aft of the Jem Hadar attack ship screen-line, unable to penetrate the core of the formation under cloak due to the anti-proton beam sweeps. Per the tactical plan, the attack ships began evasive maneuvers while the first Galor squadron immediately gained the rear of the K'Vort Class cruisers and conducted an attack by fires meeting only marginal return fire from the Klingon aft secondary batteries, crippling two enemy vessels. The second cruiser squadron continued support by fires of the Jem Hadar vanguard still engaged with the Klingon attack ships. The flagship Jem Hadar battlecruiser then concluded the engagement by gaining the K'Vorts' port quarters, attacking and destroying two of the remaining K'Vorts. The foolishness of ambush designs became apparent as well over a thousand Klingons were sent to meet Fehklar. The remaining Klingon vessels retreated."
@@crownprincesebastianjohano7069 Report Addendum: In a accordance with our standing orders, the Vorta detached the surviving Attack Ships and half the Destroyer line to pursue the surviving K'Vorts. However, the F5 M's, whom we had largely ignored, given that they are an considered an obsolete Frigate crewed by non-Klingons, isolated and killed the Destroyers before turning after the Attack Ships that had returned to try and save our Destroyers. After losing several Attack Ships to defensive fire, the F5 M's were driven off by the surviving Galors and withdrew to rejoin the K'Vorts. With three quarters of our Attack Ships and half our Destroyers and Galors lost, we are attempting to sneak back into Dominion space.
The thing I always hated about the K'Vort class was that the wings stayed in the up position the whole time. Your main armament is cannons on the tips of your wings and you are keeping so far apart that they are next to useless at close range
@@anndra8687 If it was used like a Vor'cha or Negvar it would not be an issue but on screen they are depicted as taking part in close range engagements and dog fights. There the kind of situation where you don't want your main weapon's minimum range to lie be outside your zone of engagement
I honestly liked that the wings stayed up. Can you imagine how much machinery would be needed to swing those giant wings up and down? Lock them in one position and use the volume for other stuff. That being said, I'd prefer the thing had more guns. Like, add a pair of disruptors at the wing roots to help at short ranges, or maybe some cheek disruptors like on the ENT era BoP. Or both. The thing is 320m-ish long, it can't just have two massive disruptors plus whatever size torpedo launcher/bay is at the front (if it even is still a torpedo port - could be a deflector now and the launcher(s) are elsewhere).
Main issue I have with K'Vorts is that I believe they are only shown in Yesterday's Enterprise and some stupidly mis-scaled BoPs in the TNG where Picard asks for a "favor" from Gowron when confronting the Romulan Warbirds... which always seemed stupid that the BoPs were as big as a D'Derex. So sadly, the simply upscaled K'Vorts just don't fit in my head-canon for prime timeline. I'm more tempted to make some kitbashings and change the signature features of the K'Vorts to keep the size, but be less obvious scaling mistakes in my 1/2500th modeling.
to me they don't exist , it was just TNG trying to save money by upscaling a movie asset ,like the scaling in the TNG klingon civil war , they reused assets to fill out the klingon house fleets The Norgh to me always made more sense as a slightly bigger B'rel for the times ETC ,
I always love hearing about the Klingons and their ships. Do you think Star Trek follows a cohesive story from series to series, for example some ships will appear and disappear ?
The Anglo-Historical-Brooklyn accent in the add is hilarious. I dare you to record a whole episode like that! Also, does Britain use the same phonetic alphabet as America?
YOU.... SHILLED... BOATS!!!! Okay, got that out of my system. Since we're talking about boats though, if I had to pick a terrestrial analogue to the Norgh, I pick Scharnhorst. Its not quite a battleship, but its got enough of that battleship DNA to do that job. And fits for Klingons. They like to fight, and they like to get in close and fight. They wouldn't go strategic offensive, like a D'Deridex. They'd charge to brawl. Neat little video! Always happy to see STO get a spotlight
The K’vort Makes sense if you consider the Klingon Empires troubles following Praxis. Their economy was in free fall and their military withering on the vine. They didn’t have the funds to develop a whole new class. The BoP was a proven design, the frame worked and could be scaled up. For a military on the cheap the K’vort was a handy stopgap to fill a niche until they get the Vorcha into service.
I absolutely love your channel, just a curiosity could you do a video on the D53 Harbinger next? I know it was a prototype but was it widely produced and used?
Random question - in the Klingon Civil War pre-ST VI (the one admittedly only seen (sort-of) in the Klingon Academy game) as part of your 'canon' universe or not? Just was watching someone playing it and was randomly curious.
K'vorts in 3s + 4s running amok behind enemy lines is going to cause chaos. Hitting logistic supply lines, commerce, outposts and any target of opportunity, then melting away to strike again elsewhere; The resources tied up hunting them down will be considerable. Almost definition of the Wolf packs in WW2 Battle of the Atlantic and the lengths the Allies went to try to disrupt/destroy them, so I'd not call them old relics per se, more akin to being in need of a refit/refresh but still not to be underestimated because BIG disruptors? 3x K'vort plus a Galaxy can force 2x Warbirds to back down, so supposedly not to be taken lightly, these are not old Mirandas coated in Explodium™. They're not going to be fleet ships protecting the flanks of your flagship, more likely a reserve force to flank the enemy and strike hard, akin to Cavalry Archers in Roman times who'll make your life misery if they get behind your phalanx formations. May Q guide your Christmas shopping through quiet, peaceful venues and keep the traffic at bay.
you say the Norgh is similar at least in longevity to the Miranda. however wouldn't assuming that powerplants for these ships getting bigger and bigger wouldn't it eventually reach a point where there simply isn't a powerplant capable of powering the ship to keep up with newer designs and thus but its own structure it renders itself obsolete though would definitely be fitting as a model to base a replacement of the "long term workhorse"
@venomgeekmedia9886 I also just want to say the bird of preys are some of the best ships to aid nearly any federation formation. They make fantastic picket ships and mobile elements that integrate at least in my opinion well with federation ships.
There was another Klingon bird of prey that may even fall into this category that you may have forgotten, missed, or chose to leave out. It's the F15 QuD (Insurrection) class which It has a similar look to the D57 you mentioned. the Qud class was in the Star Trek Klingon Academy game. In fact it's even on the front cover of the game's box. In the game, it was a classified as a destroyer which I think is reasonable concerning that the game takes place three years before Star Trek VI, and the Miranda class is a light cruiser in that era. The Amendments of the Qud are, Four Disruptor Cannons, One Torpedo Launcher, & One Freguency Modulated Particle Accelerator Cannon. All forwarded facing
@venomgeekmedia9886 The QuD was actually one of my favorite ships to play in STKA. And I do have to agree with you about the larger ships that the creators of that game made Though I understand the reason is going to flash out as many of the factions as possible but having ships just as big as a galaxy class in that era was a bit much. Even if the designs were cool. Also, you may have been asked this before. But what is your opinion on the Klingon Emperor class heavy battlecruiser from that game? It was made to be the counter to the Excelsior class in that game
I still maintain that any specialized warship could kick Starfleet's ass. Imagine a Galaxy with NOTHING BUT WEAPONS, the interior akin to the efficiency of the Defiant. The Dominion War never saw Galaxy behemoth-variants on screen, and it's sad.
I dont think the KVort really did perform that well in Yesterday's Enterprise. Sure they defeated the Enterprise D, but it always seemed like the D was holding back. They werent as fast and seemed less manueverable at impulse. The Enterprise D couldnt exploit this because of the need to protect the C. It still would have taken a fair amount of damage under normal circumstances but I think from what we see the Enterprise D could have come out on top.
channeling lazerpig for the advert? Perhapse a good historical analog for the heavy BOP would be the early -mid 20th C destroyer leader/ flotilla leader?
