Every time I see "this person stole my design!" drama in the knit/crochet community, the "stolen pattern" is always the most basic-looking thing on the planet that even a beginner could design. That sweater design I'm pretty sure I've seen in pattern books from the 70s, so, who stole from whom?
I mean honestly the four-rectangle pattern for tops has been around in clothing-making for literally centuries (millennia?). It's /the/ basic shirt/tunic (and, I guess, sweater) design.
I'm 74......been crocheting since I was 4....made garments at 12. Maybe they ALL have copied me!! I never buy a pattern....i see something that I like and make it my own way. Don't care who copies my stuff. It's all been done befor!!!!!
I'm 77 and also been crocheting, and sewing since I was 12 and learn on my own and look at something and then just do it my own way. Don't use patterns and my pieces come out beautifully. I pay my attention mostly to the size of the project I'm making and use my own chosen stitches.
Oh dear I have to apologize for copying you as I learned when I was 4 as well but back in 1989! I also ruthlessly stole your methods, please forgive me!🤣🤣
I'm sorry but you can't make an incredibly basic cropped sweater using a basic stitch and then say anyone who makes something similar is "copying." It reminds me of celebrities with incredibly basic names trying to trademark their name as if there aren't millions of other people have that same name
@@everfluctuatingno people make patterns and put them as pod then people use them and don’t credit people and gain money from it . Free patterns usually come with caveats that you can’t make products for profit simple . If you use these websites you’re forced to pay and that is how it is
I’m a horrible knitter, but I am a bagmaker. Last year, two designers started promoting their new design to be released the same week. Completely independent of each other, they had created identical designs and features. There’s only so many ways to make a bag as it is. Instead of getting all upset at each other, they had a good laugh and released posts basically saying “Hey, this happened and we fully support each other.”
See this is the APPROPRIATE RESPONSE. No name calling, no shadiness, just “oh shit haha how uncanny, apparently we have similar creative processes/minds!”. At least that’s how I feel as a painter.
@@HereForCrochet98My interpretation of this video includes that the youtuber on whose video this comment appears specifically asks followers to not engage in punishment of the people mentioned it the video. It sounds like you disagree, and are advocating against the express wishes of this youtuber. Apologies if my comment is a misinterpretation of yours, or of the video.
the response feels so weird to me. she basically said "i get copied all the time and i was just upset and took it out on the wrong person. i just wanted to be heard for once, so i smeared a small company and accused them of infringing copyright" as if that's a good excuse??
@@clyyyyyla totally, I responded to one of her ig posts and she blocked me not even 5 minutes later lol. It's so embarrassing she thinks she invented something even though it's so basic that anyone who knows a bit of crochet or knitting can make it without any patterns. the fact that she dont accept any criticisms honestly shows how immature she is.
I'm a fan of her and I didn't know anything of this until now 😅😅 I probably won't unfollow her but this definitely make me rethink about her as a person.
@@ProductivePixieshe definitely thought she could get away with it. It’s lucky she doesn’t speak any of the Nordic languages and can enter their yarn spaces properly because she would think everyone is copying her
Her defense of “I don’t apologize for standing up for myself” is absolutely insane. You don’t get credit for acting in self defense in an attack that didn’t even happen.
the weaponized therapy speak in her "response" makes me gag too. she kept bringing up her emotional state like she was the victim of something she started.
You gotta get into soap making drama. It gets BANANAS in there. We get people freaking out claiming fragrance oils are dangerous and essential oils cure illnesses then losing their minds when corrected. Then we got the endless debate over what is and what is not okay to add to soap. The drama never ends
I just do basic melt and pour. That is the stupidest thing ever. Fragrance is stronger and you can have allergies but it isn’t the end of the world to use fragrance.
OMG. yes. The EO/FO battles, the panic over titanium dioxide ("It'll KILL you!"}, the horrors of putting snake sheddings / breast milk/ mica/, the fat from that deer you killed last month/, or blood in a soap, and a fair amount of "you copied *insert name here*'s (completely basic) design!! Plus the cold process/hot process/melt and pour debate, and the occasional "Can I make soap without lye?") question that can get weirdly nasty. Mostly soapers are great, but when they're not.... holy crap!
I personally really dislike when people post an "apology" but then pin comments and like posts that say "you shouldnt need to apologize! you did nothing wrong!" is there a more obvious way to inidicate youre not actually sorry?
Woman who knits realizes that she is not the centre of the world and that her designs are not unique. That can hurt the ego a bit, but she'll get over it. People selling patterns would be more relaxed if they'd come to term with the fact that they are not selling designs, but guidance and a specific way to explain and illustrate the knitting process. Like a personal trainer is not selling the "unique" idea of doing 3 sets of 15 burpees to get fit, but they are selling their support and motivation to the client.
I love the way your explained this. My mother taught me to knit when I was a child, but when I wanted to learn how to crochet, I needed to go to books and the internet. I knew that some of the early patterns that I was following were on the basic side, but what I was really getting from them were the detailed explanations, the photographs or videos showing me how it was supposed to look at each stage, and in some cases the option to email somebody more experienced and ask them a question if I was struggling. I still find these things helpful now that I've moved onto more complicated patterns, but you're spot on that the thing I'm truly paying for is the hours that person put into explaining the process, not that that person had a "unique idea".
Oh, exactly this. I can generally look at a design and recreate it, but I’ll still buy a pattern to support a shop or if I’m having trouble with a specific technique to see if they are able to explain it better. (Sometimes I’ll even buy a pattern for the *sole* purpose of getting a different technique explanation and I won’t even make the full project)
@@CraftyVegan but if you reverse engineer it, you still did the work and still used your own skills and ability to do so. This is one thing I think China actually does right - they have more of a culture of "copying", as long as it is not literally stolen (meaning stealing the plans or copying word for word a pattern) but by copying ideas, they often get improved ("oh, I bet you could get a sharper corner of you did this") and refined. If the original is better than the rest, it will be still sought out, but trying to reverse engineer things is part of creation. There is nothing new under the sun as they say.
At least in the US, there is a lot of gray area with knitting patterns because everything usually low enough stakes that there isn't well established case law. Clothing structure cannot be copyrighted, but if something is classified as a soft sculpture, it absolutely can be. The line between 'wearable sculpture' and clothing hasn't really been argued out in court. Runway pieces, for example, are not meant to be seen as everyday clothing but rather wearable sculptures. As a result, a lot of this is just court of public opinion. If you want to be accepted as a designer within the community, you need to play by the community's rules. It is generally accepted that you cannot copyright a stitch and that basic constructions are universal fair game, but fair play in the community dictates trying to not release nearly identical patterns in close proximity to one another. I'm not saying knitcroaddict is in the right here, but I think that if you reduce this down to just a matter of copyright, you miss a lot of nuance.
@@stringcheese6833 I should imagine there were very few people that were followers of both the shop and the designer. I don't think they are particularly close proximity.
@@stringcheese6833 In Europe this works the same way. The copyright law sees the product as something with "individual character" (sorry, I'm translating it from my language, so the terminology might be a bit off) and most of the designs I see in the community of knitters/crocheters aren't that much original. Their "originality" is usually a composition of already known stitches and modern styles. So what actually these authors sell isn't the design itself, as in the eyes of the law it doesn't belong to them, but rather an information on how to make this design. It doesn't change the fact, that if someone came with and publicized the design first, and you bought/recreated it and started to sell without speaking even the word to the first creator it's a huge faux pas within the community. It's already hard to make money out of this craft as it's a niche, especially in fast fashion era and many people still don't understand the value of handcrafted garments, so taking away each other's ideas is basically fouling our own nest.
@@OneMinuteSewing yes and no. Admittedly, I don't know how recently either of their designs came out, but if either of them have Ravelry listings (some free designs are posted to Ravelry with a link to the designer's website), then 'close proximity' could be a matter of just within a few weeks of being posted to the site, because that could harm revenue/website traffic. Free patterns like these are meant to be like Costco samples. It's there to get people on your website, and considering whether to buy your paid patterns, so website traffic is very important for these. That being said, the chances of people being swayed away from a free pattern for a kit by a Danish yarn shop (that may not even have their pattern in English) is extremely unlikely. Along with her terrible handling of the situation, knitcroaddict is still very in the wrong.
I get irritated when someone starts telling everyone “we just need to move on” when they’re the one creating the drama to begin with. It’s like the classic “you just need to calm down” advice after the same person is why you’re irate in the first place. 🙄
As a middle-aged crocheter I just like to mention, that these crochet tops look like those we made or bought in the 90s. At least in Germany everybody and their aunt wore crochet mesh tops, long sleeves, trumpet sleeves, short sleeves or no sleeves, and all of them were made like this, 4 rectangles for front, back and sleeves. I made my first one when I was 11 in '90, black cotton with a terribly itchy, glittery polyester thread (like lametta/tinsel), and we wore it on top of tight, colourful t-shirts with bell-bottom jeans. There's absolutely nothing new about them. :)
Same with me in the NW of England UK, I'm literally looking at two crochet suit sets from Lister and Emu from pre 1970, and the designs and crochet stitches used were super simple.
There are people who get their designs stolen by Shein and Cider all the time. That's what stealing is. Not a similar BASIC DESIGN that someone made. The comments knitcro replied to and pinned were all basically saying the shop was in the wrong. Which they were not. Damn. What happened to basic human decency.
Yeah there’s a difference between straight up copying a design which SHEIN has done so many times vs. this case where it’s a basic pattern. Even the colour choice is basic 😂
@@neckbackcripplinganxietyattackyeah, cider is a fast fashion company almost exactly like shien, but on a smaller, and ultimately less harmful scale. But they steal just as many designs from small artists
Manipulative people LOVE doing this. "I'm not going to apologize for standing up for myself" who said that? who said stop standing up for yourself? NO ONE. stop deflecting. the issue is not that you spoke, it's WHAT you said. be fr! that's NOT the issue at hand. The issue is how you went about it and what you said. it's NOT because you simply stood up for yourself, no one is telling you to not stand up for yourself. they're telling you were WRONG in your ACCUSATION.
I've never even heard of knitcroaddict, so why does she expect someone ACROSS THE WORLD to be aware of her. The world doesn't revolve around her, she isn't massively famous either. smh
Anyway it doesn't mean that a designer can't copy smaller designers. Do you think they don't see or look for way less popular knitters for inspiration? Or do you think they are gods in their own bubbles and get ideas straight from the cosmos?
Her response was super Danish, I loved it. The Danes think of collaboration and working together for the greater good as super important. And her response mbodies that.
Im Thai-American, KnitCro is from Thailand and her behavior is SUCH THAI WOMEN BEHAVIOR; always the victim, never wrong, can’t truly apologize, hopes everyone just forgets their wrong, etc. It’s a trait I hope we, a new Thai generation, breaks.
As a fibre artist, I think there is a point where we have to acknowledge that most vasic wearables are exactly that. Basic. Anyone with basic knowledge could guess at it decently. Even with amigurumi and other plushies, there are a lot of basic patterns that aren't exactly rocket science. And then you have patterns like Crafty Intentions or the curvy mushroom faeries. The shaping is unique and it is very niche. Too many basic, foundational creators think of themselves as the Gordon Ramsey of fibre art when they're just a line cook at Denny's. Still vital, but not exactly innovative.
Right? For as long as knitting has been around, there is not as much unique takes happening in basics unless you’re straight up inventing a new heel turn or a bind off (shout out to Jenny, I don’t know who you are but your bind off changed my life). If anyone could maybe make a case for theft it would be if somebody was copying some of the more out there Stephen West designs, they’ve got such a….uniquely individual…shaping.
Every single time I've seen a knitter/crocheter accuse someone of theft, it's always a super basic-looking design that's using a basic beginner stitch that basically anyone who's been doing the craft for a month could figure out how to replicate.
she TOLD her followers to harass this store. every creator that i respect, when they accuse others or say "bad" things about them, they specify in the video PLEASE do not harass or dox these people, please dont seek them out. those content creators have respect. she literally told her followers to attack. so immature and irresponsible
In some places you can take legal action against someone for what she did, especially if it negatively effects your business/job/income or another key area of your livelihood. And for good reason! You can ruin someone's life making juvenile claims like this, and when it's completely baseless, it's the equivalent of tattling a fib or exaggerated story to the up tight grade school teacher just to watch the other kid lose recess for no reason, but on a much larger scale. Seems like she has a bit of "main character" syndrome combined with a severely bruised ego. Hopefully, like a scolded dog with it's tail tucked, she learned a lesson about opening your mouth without using your brain, and she'll think twice before she tries to send out her flying monkeys next time.
She seems like a rookie in public relations. But honestly the store owner feels shady, like they ignored all her direct messages until it became a big deal online, and even in that video they weren't addressing this, but rather chose to be passive agressive and shady. They had that simple pattern behind a paywall lol. Too many red flags on that store
I feel like some people are getting overly touchy about 'copying'. It's ART everyone is inspired by everybody else. Especially in fiber arts, there are only so many ways to make things. Yes, it's best practice to credit your inspiration, but I feel like there's only so upset you have a right to be about someone failing to do so. The radio was invented independently at least twice!
absolutely! And I totally do think stealing and copying does happen and we should talk about it when it does. But yes! Parallel thoughts and ideas are normal and we should always approach these copying/inspiration/plagiarism situations giving people the benefit of the doubt until they prove us wrong
I remember the youtuber the click talking about this. When he was younger he found the mathematical formula for something and felt so smart about it. Until he found out the formula was already discovered by another scientist way before him. It's not hard to mix and match stitches and come up with similar patterns and textures. Everything is pretty much a remix of something other.
Tbh i don't really see anything wrong with copying unless ur profiting off someone else's original design. I have recreated crochet/knit pieces from various brands because it's much cheaper and more fun. Idc if ppl online see it as plagiarism because irl no one cares🤷♀️ I've also had ppl copy me and i see it as them admiring my work instead of maliciously stealing off of me🤷♀️
@@iloveazaeliabanks honestly kinda agree. i think obviously ppl should be honest if they copied someone else, but if you're not profiting w/out the artist's consent and its just for personal use it's fine for me. i find that fiber artists especially though don't really agree with this, compared to other artist communities like digital artists for ex, who are much more "encouraging" of ppl copying them
As a German (right next to Denmark) I can say that telling people that others „might simply not know that XYZ“ is a nice way of saying someone might be a bit ignorant or simply dumb. 😂
@@zenaphillipsjensen7262 I'm American, and I wish America didn't do drama, but they act like drama is an integral part of human existence, so this whole knitcroaddict situation is no surprise. As for me, I prefer the drama-free life.
Yes ahahahha, she was like: " such a gentle response" I was laughing thinking, giirl that was a sassyyyy response. I wonder if it is because different culture in sarcasm?
@@denmark23Polish person here and same. The polite snark in her response was pitch perfect. Great way to respond professionally but still get a small dig in.
Full Disclosure: I am an American living in Copenhagen. I have visited Woolstock (not recently), and casually know Louise, Christel, and some others who spend time at the knit cafe. That being said... KnitCroAddict and all of the folks she encouraged to go after Woolstock just need to go outside and touch grass.
Danish person here.. jep they do 😂 And I bet, the people in store found it quite hilarious, being dragged into drama like this, and had quite a laugh about it 😂🤣 That’s is just the Danish way.. I am speaking as a Danish / South African person (mixed race)
I worked as a sample knitter for a big yarn company that had to deal with these kinds of accusations all the time. Our lead designer made a raglan top with stripes down the sleeves and had another designer blow up on her because apparently she invented this look that’s existed before she was born. Our designer was petty and then released a whole collection around that one design feature. 😅
Your lead designer sounds amazing. I love petty. Especially petty like this. Not a knitter but I am looking into starting the hobby since I definitely need a new one, but I can't believe all the drama in the community. Also, I've got a sweater that I got from a big brand box store with that exact design a few years ago... Not the look that your designer did, but the video design. It's just a big comfy cosy sweater that I found at Winners.
I just wanted to add that I appreciated Woolstock's slight shade about being busy running a shop. Almost felt like she was implying that knitcroaddict miiight be chronically online and doesn't realize not everyone is on social media constantly to have even considered "taking" her pattern. This is such a strange hill to choose to die on, especially if she's claiming this happens all the time. I don't think this was a great example to use to prove her point at all.
If this sweater made only using one basic stitch is an example of her designs being “stolen”, I highly doubt any of them have actually been stolen. Sweaters looking like this one have been around forever. No one is going to make anything original using only one stitch that a knitter can learn just a week or two after picking up the needles for the first time.
"I just wanted to add that I appreciated Woolstock's slight shade about being busy running a shop." honestly - same. Europe tends to have a better grasp of the whole work/life balance thing...I will say, I wouldn't even expect US yarn store owners to get back to me within 2-3 days. A week would have been a better timeframe to give for a response. That being said - this is a very basic pattern. This would be akin to thinking someone else is copying a chevron blanket knit/crochet pattern. Chevron has been around for *ages* (I went in search of a pattern online for such a blanket based on blankets my aunt knit back in the 70s!). If there were colour changes or an artistic design built in (like any of Andrea Mowry's patterns since ~2016 or so), then I could see an argument about "pattern stealing." For "Use this basic stitch and some lace in a repeat" that's something I'd imagine anyone of intermediate skill could think up on their own (if they so chose).
i would love to see a seamstress try to claim someone copied off them for using a basic body block pattern... the fact that knitcroaddict has people supporting her is so insane to me? like, there's nothing specialized about that pattern. it's four rectangles. plenty of people have created plenty of garments using the same basic principle of that pattern. it doesn't take a genius to make that. like girl just admit you saw do something similar to what you did and felt insecure, it's not that deep.
I think it is less to do with her being original and more to do with followers hero worshipping the person they follow and see themselves as defenders of their hero.
In danger of sounding like an old lady, I think this is also a product of the internet changing culture. Younger people grew up with 'intellectual property' clash drama all over deviantart, and youtube, and fanfiction and were taught a certain standard of 'that's copying that's bad!' I get the feeling knitcro just reacted with a kneejerk response similar to those other smaller copying claim dramas-but now that they're grown and have a financial motivation they took it to the most public stage they had for a support brigade. And got humbled when the rest of fibre community pointed out such a basic item is not a concept she can copyright. Her written pattern, yes. The *idea* of a sweater knitted flat with no shaping and a basic stitch, no.
Exactly. There's a reason knock-offs are a thing. But even something like an a-line dress or princess seams in a top or even a historical style dress, those are still basics in many way. You cannot copy someone's "idea" for styling a gown as empire-waisted. Like @kinenhi said - I think it's a generational thing. I feel like kids these days are so much more black and white about right and wrong, sometimes completely misunderstanding in the process. It took me a while to get my children to understand that citing wikipedia in an academic paper isn't good because it's a tertiary source, like an encyclopedia, but there *are* times when it could be appropriate, and moreso, it's a great place to start to begin looking for primary and secondary sources. But they got taught wikipedia=bad.
@@SusantheNerdyYep, I see it as a product of the lack of nuance in education here in the US. As the education system get squeezed and standardized more and more and kids spend less and less time interacting with other people (especially older people) their worldview becomes narrower and more black and white. People who aren't involved in education think teachers are trying to tell their kids what they should think, when really no one is teaching them *how* to think critically. So they just glom onto whatever basic framework they get and build a whole dogma around it, but don't get to the next developmentally appropriate step until way later in their adulthood than they might have otherwise. Not sure why it/if happens as much in other countries.
@@Kinenhi it's ironic that you mention the fanfiction community. I've been involved in that side of the internet to some degree or another for years, and I've definitely seen both sides. Some will be squawking like feral crows over protecting their shiny idea, and others will be sitting unbothered and pointing out that there's only so many ways to write a Fake Dating AU or interpret one character's pre-canon story given the information provided in canon. It's how I often feel with ouija board horror movies - the plots are always slightly different, but I rarely watch them anymore because I've seen 3-5, and at that point I feel like I've seen them all. Nobody's "copying" anyone, it's just a pretty basic idea. Don't make it bad, but it isn't unique either.
something to note is that scandinavia has a huge knitting and fiber arts culture with strong historical root and generational bonds. I'm norwegian and i was taught knitting in school, as wella s being taught by my female relatives (mom, aunts, stepmom, grandmothers, great grandmothers etc.). And it is a somewhat insulated space with most pattern books being written in our languages and mostly using natural fibers such as wool. The point I'm trying to make is that it is unlikely that a yarn store in copenhagen would look to an american knitter or crocheter for pattern inspiration, as you dont really need to go outside of scandinavia to do so. Also, most scandinavia knitters and crocheters, unless youre of the youngest generation, will look to social media or the internet at all for patterns, and most will definitely not be looking for patterns in english
It's baffling she says "I won't apologise for standing up for myself" when there was nothing for her to stand up to. They did not steal her design. They did not attack her. She started the fight and then claimed self defence.
I’m not siding with anyone who copies someone else with no recognition. At all. Plagiarism is a definite problem. But I literally have a sweater from 1993 that looks EXACTLY and I mean EXACTLY like the sweater in question. So before we get all up in arms, that has already been done, 30 years ago. This is so much like Tay Beepboop thing. She thought she had original designs too. With all of that said i love your work and don’t ever stop.
This fact that so many similar patterns using common stitch patterns that hundreds of us humans could have easily combined/came up with the written patterns for them in hat, scarf, sweater, blanket, or whatever & has happened many times for decades is one reason, if not the main reason, that I think many patterns that are of an easy to moderate difficulty level are overpriced. There. I said it. I've observed some crochet & knit designers that are very popular & have easy peasy patterns that sell like hot cakes and are priced as much as patterns that are, say, medium difficulty level. And then they at times complain about seeing some designers price their patterns for less and plead that when others price patterns for less that 'hurts and devalues our craft'. Ok, I'll shut up now.
@@playhooky while I agree with parts of what you said, it's no one's business what someone else wants to sell their time and craft for. It's just not. They may not know they are undervaluing their product. I've sold on Etsy and I found that I was underpricing. Not because I was trying to sell more, but lack of confidence and not knowing what my time was worth.
@@YourRoyalMajesty. i think it can also come down to what really is "under" or "over" valuing your product. i use to sell in craft fairs all the time during college and would get complaints from other crocheter/knitters about my pricing and that i was undervaluing myself. really it was just a difference between me, a hobby crocheter/knitter, who was just making my items in between classes for fun, so pricing it based on getting my money back on supplies while still making enough to buy more supplies VS a person who is a business crocheter/knitter, who takes the time to calculate all the whatnots of pricing so as to make a profit and living off their products. i dont think either of us were under or over valuing ourselves, but more focusing value on different things, for me it was to keep having fun making things for the next craft fair and to keep my sanity between classes/studying while the other person is valuing theirs as a full business.
I don't even knit and I could see the visual differences in their designs. Also, they're Danish, presumably not native English speakers. If it takes them a while to respond, it's probably because they're trying to translate it. Things get mistranslated so often that you have to be careful. 😭
I also don’t like needing an immediate response. They definitely had bigger things to worry about, like running a brick and mortar, than someone claiming they stole her basic design. The people I work with and my friends/family don’t immediately respond back to my emails or texts and it’s perfectly fine. Even without the language barrier, I don’t understand a late response as a bad thing. The DMs they get are probably all in danish so they didn’t prioritize DMs in English thinking it could just be spam or a bot
Come on, 86% of Danish citizens speak English FLUENTLY. Not a little bit, fluently. I don’t think there was much of a language barrier, most of us, Europeans, communicate in English on a pretty daily basis, especially in big cities like Copenhagen.
@@AmatisoveLove I can see that being true however whenever the majority of your content is in Danish and you're like doing all of the social media promotion in Danish and you get a message in English you're most likely going to disregard it initially thinking that it's spam or something as another commenter has said in the replies!
@@bridgetrsews Online issues and real life issues are two different things. There is absolutely nothing I can do about the war in Ukraine. I have no money, or job, and my family is very poor in terms of money. So, Bridget, before you come in a RU-vid comment section bumbling on about real world issues to someone who you know nothing about maybe you should realize that commenting things like what you did doesn't give people a life changing vision and they're suddenly gonna hop off RU-vid and donate their to a charity when they can't otherwise they won't have any money to put gas in their car.
@@bridgetrsews Takes one to know one neener? I am not sure how to translate. You don't like to wear clothes? Hot there where you are at? Too cool for pullover need parka TM instead?
“If they had just replied to my baseless accusations then I wouldn’t have shared them publicly “ she’s one of those huh 🤢 blaming the victim is never cute just apologize and move on
Oh man, the gall to not only assume a basic stitch and panel sweater is "yours" and "stolen", but to then sic your dogs on them and pretend you didn’t when they have bigger dogs. 😂
As someone who has seen the taybeepboop situation and this; yall are in diy. You can't get mad when someone else does something similar or the same thing - especially when your creator in these spaces. These grown ass adults sound like those art kids who scream 'art style theft' and have their followers go attack other artists who happen to draw the same things.
Agree all the way around. There’s the popular saying that “all artists steal” or what was at one time a rather popular book (the author made guided journals that are still pretty popular out there based off the concept and their book) called “Steal Like an Artist” which largely made the point that we all learn from and are inspired by one another or by the same artists and creators who made it big before us. I definitely like the arguments some are making and that the Danish shop made too about knowing the history of your craft. I went to art school and art history was heavily influenced- it makes you a better artist and there’s so much to learn from various styles and subject matter and mediums over the ages. Some would say there are no new ideas and everything, everything is derivative and given some of the inherent limitations of yarn and knitting needles or a crochet hook, one could easily argue that’s more than likely the case with fiber arts. It doesn’t mean you can’t design and sell patterns and don’t have s right to make money off of doing so if you so choose. But good gosh for such a basic pattern especially, it’s got to take a high level of ignorance or narcissism or both to assume a creator on the other side of the world directly and intentionally copied you specifically on a basic design and sweater construction. And a creator who I’m going to guess primarily publishes patterns in Danish? But really, either way. It was so telling when the shop owner actually ended up citing a fellow Danish designer as their actual inspiration. Certainly seems more likely in a sheer game of odds.
The internet has become so obsessed with being ethical they have become UNethical and just downright controlling of creativity. As an artist it's kinda sad because if you study art history, derivative works are imperative for progression and mastering. All of the Renaissance artists were derivative of each other. The impressionists were derivative of each other. I think another component is how Corporate copyright legal bs has penetrated art culture in a toxic way. These people have no frame of reference other than seeing the legal warnings on the screen before the movie starts. It's bizarre.
Right? also similarly reminds me of those artists who make "closed species" and try to prohibit other people from drawing... neon dogs.. with wings.. like buddy if you wanna go down that route I'm going to have to insist that before you go doxxing the 14 year old you get the ouija board out and tell Lisa frank to cease and desist, honestly its all very absurd and highly unethical like MekareP said
I crochet and paint, it’s like someone trying to copyright the stereotypical painting of an apple, orange, grapes, and banana in a fruit bowl that EVERY painter throughout history has done. Or the single flower in a bud vase on a table with a hatched square pattern, in front of a window with a pastoral scene outside. I have seen over a hundred different paintings from over a dozen different artists for each of those designs.
and it's fun how childlish she acts, i was one of those people who commented, my comment i made later than most people got deleted within 10 minutes and she blocked me instatnly.
I’m really impressed with the yarn store Woolstock’s response. It was really nice to see them being really kind towards knitcroaddict and directly laying out how they made their pattern. Kind of wild how knitcroaddict really did not back down in their comment section :P
They’re simply too Danish and have too much going on offline to truly care about some tiktoker on a different continent trying to claim a very integrated part of their culture as her own 😅
I was impressed too. She explained clearly the origins of this simple basic crochet shape and the choice of stitches, and showed garment samples. The easy jumper had minimal design, just an easy to wear, simple to crochet garment. I'm looking through my old patterns and I have many similar cardigans and jumpers, patterns costing 1/- (one shilling) so pre-decimalisation - ie pre 1971.
I hate the "don't copy my patterns/designs" crowd. If you're making a beginner friendly knit or crochet pattern, it's going to use basic stitches and basic shapes, and there's only so many ways to do that...
I made one of KCA's patterns, and it was very good. It was definitely beginner friendly and well-written, but also, it's beginner friendly. Which means it's very simple, which means it's easy for anyone with some idea of how to write patterns to write their own version. Her apology post is not an apology. She's not apologizing because she doesn't think it was wrong to bully these people. It's all, "I was defending my art, and they owed me an explanation to prove I wasn't acting crazy." Which. No. I think Woolstock handled a messy situation with grace and kindness. I've been in the online fiber arts space for over 20 years, and it's forever wild.
As someone who lived in Denmark for quite a while, this is such a Danish response. Respect is the key in Denmark and it’s so lovely. As someone who’s been working with textiles for 30 years now I’m so tired of the ‘you copied me’ stuff in the community. I do natural dyes now and the ‘community’ changed from people sharing everything to even the basics being putting behind paywalls no one can afford. The crafting community is as old as humans themselves are. I understand having things stolen from you, it happened to me really badly in art school but there are specific ways that stuff can be stolen and then how things just happen when you are all making with forms such as knitting that will cause you to make very similar things. Just as it is with natural dyes there are ancient forms of this, they have exists for such a long time that ‘oh this is mine’ when the likelyhood is when it’s simple or an old style it’s very much not going to be something wildly new. I’m so tired of people gatekeeping crafts when we learned these for free from elders and much of my skills come from craft groups we used to have in my early 20’s. Now those skills are being gatekept behind $80 paywalls for ‘soak your material in soy milk’ 🙄🙄. I do whatever I can to share this information still, because it’s MEANT to be passed down. That’s why these skills still exist. We need to be better at sharing and less about hustling. I know people want to make $$, so do I, but when this is something you give away for free or it’s a style like this that’s basic and based on more traditional styles 🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻
It's a beige sweater with holes between stitches and basic, blocky rectangle construction. While this is trendy right now, it's a closet staple that's probably existed for hundreds of years. It wasn't created by a 20-something instagrammer. Also, as a crocheter, that look of gapping between tall stitches (dc ch1 dc) is in almost every beginner sweater/shirt pattern I've looked at. I use the same thing as a border on baby doll dresses.
@@FrenkTheJoyI’m making a jumper like that right now just from my own head! It’s such a common look in crocheted sweaters especially as the gaps makes it a little faster to make.
1. There is a limited color palette that shows stitch definition well on-screen, consisting of light colors, such as white, beige, baby blue, light pink, etc. People that use these colors, in projects to be presented online, know this because they are experienced enough with presenting their craft online, and not because they are copying knitcroaddict. 2. Basic sweater designs have existed longer than knitcroaddict has been alive. My grandmother had sweaters with the same basic design, purchased from stores that went out of business before knitcroaddict was born. I am sure they didn't steal her design. 3. If we want to get technical, a written crochet pattern is nothing more than a set of instructions, which makes it ineligible for copyright protection. Additionally, clothing designs are also not copyrightable, because they are considered too utilitarian to deserve copyright protection. This is why big name designers in the fashion industry have logos that they stick on EVERYTHING. They make it part of their design, because the logo is eligible for TRADEMARK protection. You can legally make and sell knockoffs of GUCCI bags, as long as you don't use their trademarked GUCCI name or logo on them or any of your marketing materials. However, there are often things included with knit and crochet patterns that ARE copyrightable, and as long as someone else's pattern does not include these things, they aren't violating anyone's copyrights. These things are photos, drawings, and creative commentary that is often included as the intro to the pattern, all things the US Copyright office deems methods of artistic expression worthy of copyright protection. Under current copyright law, one can take ANY of knitcroaddict's crochet patterns, follow the instructions to make the item themselves, then take their own photo of what they made, write their own intro, and reuse the exact set of instructions from that existing crochet pattern, without making any changes to those instructions, republish it as their own, and sell it, without permission of knitcroaddict, without giving any credit to knitcroaddict,...all without violating any of knitcroaddict's legal rights. And this is how it has always been in the fashion, craft, and recipe worlds. If knitcroaddict doesn't like this, she should find another line of work, one that doesn't rely on earning her income from selling sets of instructions.
i am not sure how american copyright law works, but i do know how it works in the eu (its all the same mostly here) and the reason why fashion designers dont go crazy over copyright is because fashion moves on too quickly, and there's no point suing over last years styles. you cant deny that knitting is creative in itself, and full of artistic expression with hand knit objects, as such, a pattern, especially one with video introductions like knit cros could have copyright protection in the eu. If it had been copied. Which it hadn't. you don't need to copy something word for word after all, just a substantial part communicated to new audiences aka those who hadn't bought the pattern (with the ones behind paywalls of course). All this to say be careful when talking about copyright! especially internationally, as the rules are very different :)
plagiarism is usually pretty easy to detect- i've seen different food creators talk about how others have been caught directly lifting amounts and preparation instructions from existing recipes. but i agree with louise that there are only so many kinds of techniques and construction methods in fibre arts that it's hard to make anything totally unique. if it were a word for word pattern copy i definitely think knitcro's reaction would have been warranted.
right, it is like the difference between 1)someone thinking, ohh, I think trout would taste good cooked in these ingredients and 2)someone else reading a cookbook for a recipe for trout and copying the exact ingredients, quantity and method and putting an identical recipe in a cookbook and calling it their own. The first may be a coincidence but you don't own the right to combining those ingredients, the second is plagiarism. She did the knitting version of a recipe for beef in wine with garlic (a common dish) and said that someone else who posted their recipe for bison in wine with garlic that tasted similar was stealing from them when the quantities and method were not the same.
I'm pretty sure only instructions in food recipes are copyrighted as a written text, so copying amounts is legal. You could also easily just rewrite instructions to alter the text enough for it not being a copy but still be the same steps. So while it's unethical to post recipes as your own without giving credit, it's very hard to actually claim ownership of a food recipe legally.
Agreeing that it's usually easy to tell. I've had to message a pattern maker that their design was being stolen before. On a site the actual pattern was also sold on, someone was selling their pattern for about half the price, using the same exact pictures the original creator had for the pattern. A lot of people who try to steal other people's creative works use as little effort as possible when doing so because that's kinda the point. They want to make money without putting the amount of effort the actual creator had to.
man, if I tried to start drama and the response was so chill and down to earth like those store people, I'd just quit the internet and crawl under a rock
It's weird, I've been knitting/crocheting for 45 years and a lot of these patterns are stuff I made decades ago 😂 Everything old is new and recycled. Some things maybe are innovative but I see a lot of designers come up with similar stuff and claim it's an original 🤷♀️ I'm pretty sure with millions of crocheters around the world their might be more than one person with the same idea 👍
these kids are saddled with extreme poverty of history education as a baseline, so they end up thinking they actually invented everything. it's both hilarious and pitiful.
The pattern she's making these accusations over is soooooo basic. A lot of more advanced knitters wouldn't even need a pattern to make that. I wouldn't even use a pattern to crochet a similar design (I don't knit). She didn't make anything that didn't already exist. I guarantee there are tons of other patterns almost exactly the same as hers that were created first. The design itself isn't original at all. The stitch isn't original, and the construction isn't original. The only way it could be plagiarism was if they took her pattern word for word which they didn't. I think the culture around intellectual property, which is warranted in some areas, has no place in these ancient crafts. I am a pretty experienced crocheter (I do anything from garments to lace) and there is nothing original about simple garments. Unless you are creating advanced garments with a lot of combined difficult elements, it is almost guaranteed that someone has done something very similar if not the same before you. The exception would be more sculptural stuff with a lot of specific increases and decreases. You only get into intellectual property territory when you get super advanced. I do a lot of work without using patterns but I would never claim it as an original design. This is why I don't publish my patterns (plus writing them down is a pain lol). This capitalist and individualistic attitude is ruining the community. Handcrafts have always been built on collaboration.
Exactly! I’ve seen similar “drama” before happen over patterns literally constructed of sewn together granny squares (the classic kind!). I’m like, guys nobody really owns granny squares at this point. They belong to us all.
As a knitter, I would say that while construction is very basic the stitch itself is not that popular because the look is more commonly done with crochet, not two needles. Some months ago I was looking into making a lightweight sweater in a netting stitch and Knitcro's pattern was one of the few that was also free and in English (many were in Russian tho). That said, it's not super rare and I came up with my own similar pattern after a few tries, any advanced-beginner/intermediate knitter probably has at least tried to make something like it at least once. Hell, now I want to make one with mohair, the ones from the shop in Denmark looked lovely.
Mind you most of the knit and crochet we do was created in the 60s/70s, we are only modernizing them. There's no new methods, maybe minor alterations. It's impossible to gatekeep crochet/knit.
I looked at it and I am pretty sure I can make the same exact thing (using crochet because the stitch looks very similar to a crochet stitch), except maybe the armpit part may be different because I choose to decrease instead of just rectangles.
@jinjekang4300 I don't think you could make a more simple sweater construction with sleeves if you tried. Beginner patterns are great for beginners, but they're not original
Speaking as a Scandinavian, this style was huge here in the 90s iirc. To me this looks like any pattern you can find for free in Scandi knit archives or at fleamarkets. It’s everywhere. Considering her age + the resurgence of 80s/90s/00s inspired knitwear I’m not surprised at all that this is something she’d come up with. Claiming this Danish lady copied knitcroaddict sure is something.
my mom made me a similar sweater when I was in highschool in the 80's. With a blouse underneath it with upstanding collar I felt very cool. It was a cult back then.
Not again... and at a Danish pro store. I feel so bad for that American girl, I'm dying of secong hand embarrassement here. In Nordic countries just about everyone learns to knit and crochet those kind of things in elementary school. (not well, mind you, but we have to try) We also learn the history of handcrafts - when Christine said it has been around before Christ she wasn't kidding. I think there are some Danish samples that are pretty darn old... I think one should know and appreciate the history of whatever field they are operating in and also be aware of what is sort of common property or common knowledge within it. A very basic pattern that has been repeated in crafts magazines over and over is really tricky to prove ownership to. That doesn't mean pattern copying isn't a thing - there was an actual huge drama in my home country ( Finland) surrounding a really complicated knit pattern (well, complicated for me - all my friends made it in a week or so but my fingers are all thumbs when it comes to knitting actual pattern and not just stitch) that was made for a tv-show and then somehow ended up on the supermarket shelves. That was hilarious! Being Finns, both parties worked it out with a couple of grunts and nothing more was ever said about it. These obvious cases of thievery notwithstanding, a rising tide raises all ships and so forth. Christine was really kind to send more people to knitcroaddict's site - I hope she grabs the opportunity and this 'drama' can eventually be useful for both. There really is room for everybody when it comes to arts and crafts.
@@ion3984 Prisma myi viime syksynä neuletta, joka oli (ainakin monen mielestä) kopio Strömsö-neuleesta. S-Ryhmä myönsi samankaltaisuuden ja veti neuleen pois myynnistä.
We learn to knit and cotchet in school here in Norway as well. Lots of people bring their knitting to college lectures to keep their hands busy while they focus. It’s just a thing here. Probably among all the Nordic countries.
I’m 74, that jumper looks exactly like the very first jumper I knitted. At 15 I was well developed and embarrassed of my body, so with the help of my mother I knitted a loose jumper, using the method of knitting 4 rectangles and sewing them together. The first jumper our daughter knitted was the same design, and now our 13 year old granddaughter is trying to knit the same jumper. Let’s be honest it looks like something an inexperienced knitter would knit, what a palaver about nothing.
Just knowing the shaping is 4 rectangles and seeing a picture, any one who had been knitting for more than a couple months could probably replicate that pattern sight unseen.
I have an old knitting magazine from my mom's collection from 1978 that has an IDENTICAL sweater pattern to this. Basic design ideas that are easy to achieve and look good come up again and again as trends ebb and flow through time.
Most of the plagiarism accusations seemingly always come from people who have limited technical design/patternmaking ability as well as a limited historical view of the craft(s) they work in. The ability for anyone and everyone to release patterns is a blessing and a pure CURSE. Social media fandom always adds fuel to the fire; are they really with you or are they just happy to be part of a mob? Maybe a bit of gatekeeping is needed.
I can understand it if the pattern is particularly unique or complex but deliberately making a beginner friendly pattern with simple shapes and stitches and thinking you are the first person to create it is naive at best. It makes me think of someone who gets into making pottery on a wheel and thinks they created the idea of a basic mug. Like sure you may be the first person within your direct circle of acquaintances who made it, but that doesn't mean someone else across the world copied when it isn't even the same pattern. Something about it coming from younger/newer people also just feels disrespectful to the history of the craft and when a younger audience is the easiest to intentionally or otherwise weaponize, I feel like this problem is only going to get more and more common.
@@uncurled520absolutely! I think another aspect is that many don’t have a legitimate interest in the craft itself, but the ability to monetize the craft. Once their income stream is threatened, they react in this manner. I know it’s a reaction to economic conditions, but it’s a bit jarring to see everything commodified.
@@Random_Identityso true! I don’t want to gatekeep anyone out of crochet, but weirdly I think sometimes people like this do by overcharging for basic patterns (not sure about this specific person but in general) and shaming people for “not crediting” every single little pattern they use or claiming “plagiarism” on anything similar. Also making people feel like they have to buy tons and tons of etsy patterns when just one simple pattern book or free youtube tutorials are perfectly suitable. Especially for beginners.
@@Random_Identity The monetization thing might be the biggest difference I see between younger creators and older ones in all sorts of crafts. The older generation are often just so excited to see young people get into these hobbies which for a long time were considered uncool to the point that it isn't uncommon for them to happily give away some of the excess supplies they have gathered over the years along with all their tricks and tips. Specifically with yarnwork, most of the stores I have visited are owned by older ladies who opened the stores at the end of their careers rather than fully retire. They aren't looking to make big profits so much as make enough to keep the place running and share their passion for the craft. So for this whole thing to essentially be a young online personality accusing an older woman whose knit career is largely running a physical store of copying a fairly simple pattern is so emblematic of the generational differences.
I started crocheting thinking it was an innocent grandma hobby where we all shared designs and were happy. How wrong I was. Crochet and knitting has sooo much drama online lol
Fun fact: old grandma knitters/crocheters groups online were one of the big early groups of people that pirated stuff (actual whole complex patterns from books and so on).
It’s because COVID made crafting practically the only thing kids can do during that time. Now people made whole online personas around crafting, most of these people haven’t been crafting for long. Idk as someone who’s been crocheting since I was a kid, it was increeeedibly uncool until Covid hit. At least in the United States.
Oh you have to just focus on learning and finding what style you like and improving your techniques but the gossipy/drama side has always been there so you’ll need to actively ignore it and find a group of ppl likeminded that is not interested in that side and just support each other and encourage each other. Little tip: I tend to manipulate the convo at beginning of groups and classes to all positive convo and that sets the tone and standards.😉
Im an oil painter and always knew that art community thrives on pettiness and gossip, and I’m kind of here for it. But man, knitters/crocheters are blood thirsty
“I won’t apologize for standing up for myself” is kind of a red flag, honestly. It’s usually followed by an “I’m sorry you feel that way” kind of “apology”.
Wow! That's so like a non-apology apology. Wool Stock DK handled that perfectly. They are so classy. There's no need to join the drama or respond to stupidity.
I sit over on Instagram just minding my business and never really noticed much drama. But recently I decided to try TikTok and wow there's a lot of drama over there. It is thoroughly entertaining.
I had someone accuse me of copying a turtle amigurumi from a seller on etsy. I actually wrote the pattern myself and was not selling the pattern nor the amigurumi, I was just showing off my work. Obviously there are only a few ways to make a turtle and there are going to be ones that look VERY similar because of those creative limits. It is wild that people are so quick to assuming people are copying when ALL of art is interpretation and redesigns of existing art. Plagiarism in art only exists if someone is intentionally copying every line of someone else's work.
It's always the people making basic staple pieces in styles that have been around for ages that make these bold claims and like... girl, seriously? My mom had a sweater pretty much like that one in the 80s so I guess a time traveller decided to steal her design, travel back in time, and mass produce it... out of spite or something.
Right?! When I was a wee tot, I figured out how to make shirts & dresses for my dolls by: cutting a slit on the fold of a long rectangle of fabric (or paper that I had colored in 😄), stick Dollie's head thru slit, tie a 'belt' (or elastic) around the waist to keep the 'dress' in place. After initially stapling the side seams of similarly-constructed shirts, my mom took pity on me & let me use her sewing kit & showed me a basic AF running stitch to use instead. As an older teen, I took this knowledge and applied it to make shrugs & ponchos for myself. And in my mid 20s, I used that same knowledge along with my new skills of crocheting & knitting to make myself (yet another 😂) a shrug, then an 'open poncho' (do we just call it a cardigan at that point? 🤔). Others were made to PRACTICE doing yarnovers & decreases via different types of 'lace'! *So.* Considering allllll of this happened WELL before the creator's PARENTS were likely out of school, I demand credit for my invention that she so maliciously stole from me!
I will often try to figure out how to make patterns I like as a anti-Alzheimer’s endeavor. I usually buy the pattern afterwards to see how close it came to it. Elizabeth Zimmerman used to say that she “unvented” some technique rather than “invented.” She reasoned that people have been knitting for ages and she couldn’t take credit for doing something “first”-somebody MUST have done “that thing” before she did. On another note, I actually go to Denmark every three years and am totally looking forward to visiting Woolstock next time I’m there!!!
I’ve made two sweaters made of four rectangles and ribbing. They were my own “pattern”, because they are a very basic way to make sweaters. Any seasoned fiber crafts person would be insane to claim no one else is allowed to use this design. I feel bad that she keeps digging this hole for herself, because it’s truly so sad
Make lots of 6 inch crochet granny squares - crochet them together to make 2 fronts and a back and two sleeves - and you have a crocheted "Harry Styles" cardigan. No pattern needed.
I have owned a sweater that looked like that and purchased it years ago. The person from Knitcro behaved very poorly. Lots of projecting and attacking.
I own a yarn store, and i get dozens of emails a day, never mind the dozens of messages on all social media platforms. I usually have 1 day a week that i got through emails, and if something comes up and interrupts that, i skim emails and take care of them the next week. 95% of them are marketing emails, and its easy to miss a valid message that way, but i usually catch it the next week. Also, none of this addresses the multitudes of spam and scam messages I get. I'm not a designer, but ive had at least 4 messages over the last few years of people accusing me of stealing their design ideas. Scammers be scammers and i tend to ignore them until i have time to laugh at their bs.
Stuff like this is why I don't want to be apart of communities. Everyone just seems ready to rip out each other's throats. Imma just stay in my corner.
As an Eastern European who grew up surrounded by knitting, watching their grandmoms, aunts, and neighbors knitting similar patterns all of the time (I am pretty sure I had at least 10 similar sweaters as a kid, courtesy of my grandma who would mass produce them for me and my siblings in every possible color), I cannot even begin to describe how wild this accusation is form me, considering how basic the pattern is. I know knitting is going through a revival now - thanks, pandemic - but it is no reason to act like you were the one to discover it.
Exactly! My mum taught me to crochet when I was a kid, and I just freestyled until I used my first pattern in my late twenties, I just always kind of winged it. So the idea that anyone could "own" a pattern is so weird to me. I think a lot of these crafters who make accusations about "stealing" have come to the hobby as adults and learned online, so they think it's a more formal thing than it really is?
This is mostly unrelated, but I still find it amazing how much the knitting and crochet community has boomed over the last few years, especially among young people (I assume TikTok is part of it). Even like 10-15 years ago, people constantly asked me why I had 'old women hobbies' lol, so it's nice to see.
I feel the same! I learned to knit and crochet as a teen over a decade ago. It’s so exciting to see more kids getting into it. They bring a lot more experimentation than the older scene had.
There was that boom when Stitch Bitch came out. That was fun. Ravelry was born from that boom. And the Yarn Harlot. I got called Grandma in the 90s (as a teen) so I really love how knitting and crochet got more popular from 2000s on!
Back when I had a crochet “business” I saw MY product pictures posted on a Facebook garage sale site by someone I don’t know advertising for Custom made Christmas gifts. I decided to look at her profile to see if she had any pics of her actual work and as expected it was nothing close to my stuf. I sent her a message to which I got a very nasty response. Like what do you even do with that? I wouldn’t have been upset if she had “stolen” my design because they were basic stitches anyway but she was taking credit for MY actual work and willing to take people’s money for something that she didn’t have the ability to recreate.
When I first started studying arts at 15 years old, I was doing a art piece in class and was so happy with the results that I told my teacher "look, isn't this so creative and original?", my teacher replied with something that stuck with me for life, he said "nothing is original. how do you know that someone hasn't had the same idea on the other side of the world, or was inspired by the same subject as you?!" I have to say that this quote humbled me! the end :P
Woolstock made such a kind and gentle response, I don't know how knitcro couldn't have been anything but ashamed watching it. To continually dig their heels in further is madness.
As someone who has had a pattern design blatantly stolen (they stole my pictures from my etsy listing and were trying to scam sales, at the very least), I find "plagarism" claims like these exhausting and a bit removed from reality at times. There really are only so many stitches/techniques/ideas, yet I still see so many creators explicitly stating "don't steal my style" in instagram bios. You can't copyright something nebulous like a strawberry cow or a witch hat;6 it's like if an amigurumi designer came after every other person who made "cute" designs. Or for using single crochet in continuous rounds in multiples of 6 to build up their pattern (for those who don't make amigurumi, that's very common in design). Also, if someone can reverse engineer your pattern on sight (without having a copy of said pattern that they're pulling directly from, I mean), there's really not a lot you can do anyway to prevent that. You just kind of have to roll with it.
I dont know too much about other fiber arts, but I do know a bit about sewing (and paper crafts) I also saw a video that explained fashion copyright and trademark (from style theory). What I learned is that coyrighting and trademarking fashion is very difficult, because things that have a standard utilitarian use is hard to claim as ones own cuz its so basic. Like a T-Shirt, the pattern for every basic T-Shirt is pretty much the same cuz theres only so many ways to make it and they all serve the same purpose. After that its also gets complicated with ideas and intellectual property and other things. If something like this fell into copyright because it is very similar, nobody could make any clothes, bags, coats, etc, because all the patters could be deemed as exactly the same.
Yeah it’s super tricky. I think the only way you can actually claim copyright is if the actual patterns are word for word the same. I’ve had friends who were able to get RU-vid to take down videos that were word for word recreations of their patterns. For actual designs though the utility thing keeps most clothing pieces not covered by copyright.
@@emmainthemoment Indeed, unless its absolutely blatant theres nothing you can do. Id say in case of youtube videos its even easier cuz it probably falls under a different type of copyright since it would go beyond just selling a garment that looks similar. And theres obvious proof.
I am a knitting designer. I published a bag pattern in the mid-2000’s using stranded knitting in a chevron/zigzag tube. I used 4 yarns which were all slowly-color-changing. I worked on that bag design for over a year and had several test knitters work with me. Not long after I released my pattern, a book came out written by a very popular blog (when blogs were really important). It was stranded knitting in a zigzag/chevron tube using leftover (solid? Mostly solid?) yarns. This tube was cut open and made into a flat piece of knitting. Books take a long time to get released. Zigzags in stranded knitting are a simple and historically common motif. My pattern also took over a year. A yarn shop owner came to me upset that this book had “copied” my design. My colorful zigzag. I explained how that was impossible. I hope the shop didn’t slam the book too much before I stopped the nonsense. As a designer, I understand that many people make top down socks with K2P2 ribbing, a heel flap with a handkerchief heel turn and a wedge toe. However, anybody who writes a pattern about this exact visually common design will write it in their own way. They will use their own words and their own photographs or drawings. What I understand is that I can copyright my particular flavor/version of having written that style on paper with my specific words and that formatting. However, I cannot claim the design itself. The design belongs to all people. It’s a universal thing. There is a legal name for this sort of universal item but I don’t remember what it’s called. Peace to all. It’s true that some places are copying but it’s not individuals. It’s mostly places like fast fashion factories.
the actual design aside, trying to blast and send followers to harass another creator because they didn’t respond in a couple days is unhinged behavior. Do you they have anything else else besides staring at their DMs all day? Most businesses can’t even get back to a paying customer within 3-5 business days. And then denying that they said that at all 🤦🏻 your followers aren’t stupid. The whole “your entitled to your opinion” response to comments on her apology is very telling on their character
Knitting has been around forever, I’m not even an expert by ANY means but honestly a four rectangle sweater is something I could just….make? The stitch is nice but could be swapped for any other with an eyelet effect and it would be relatively easy to just make up a sweater blindly that looks just like those. I agree full heartedly with the store owner that we should celebrate finding new trends and making similar pieces since they show us that around the world we aren’t that different from one another ❤
I've been in Woolstock a few times, and I highly recommend it! Louise is the sweetest, most patient being and the atmosphere is amazing. It's honestly like a family in there, and you can borrow tools and get lots of help while you're working in there. Do yourself a solid and go if you're ever in Copenhagen. Lots of tourists come in as well. Last time I was in Woolstock, Louise was speaking to some friends about how stressfull it had been - so understandible!
that apology post is just so.... eughhh like i maybe could have forgiven from the original post but the lying and the pushing the blame off of herself is what makes me not ever want to support her. like girl,,,,,, even a simple "my bad sorry guys" and it would have been like alright whatever this is possibly one of the worst apologies ive seen
The fact that every summer, for the past 20+ years, that same sweater design spawns inside every clothing store in my country, like it isn't even a new trend, my grandmother has pictures with one from before I was born???
i know you said you dont want to make these copy accusation/drama type videos but as someone who knows little about fiber art, it lured me in and it was a really fun video to watch. i think people love niche community dramas (and justice), as long as there is good storytelling. happy to have discovered your channel.
Don't y'all understand? She's different. She's not like other knitters. She didn't even learn how to read patterns until she decided to write them. She could never create a similar pattern to someone else 😂
How did she “copyright” this pattern?? It is such a basic sweater pattern- there are tons of sweaters out there like this. So much drama over a non issue.
I’m 38 and have been knitting since I was 18. I used to get patterns from ravelry, and used to do patterns from magazines and books all the time. I swear I have seen this pattern a bunch of times over the years. It’s a very simple design. If it was wildly artsy with like varying angles and complicated lace knitting and someone made a duplicate of it, then maybe I could understand calling someone out, but it’s nuts that anyone would think that such a simple pattern was originally their idea 🙄. As a knitter and felter and sewer, this is why I have distanced myself from social media. Their are too many people pointing and accusing over nothing and honestly, it’s killing creativity.
I've had a pattern plagiarized. It sucks. The person purchased my knitted toy sheep pattern. I had the receipt from them purchasing it. A couple of months after they purchased it they were selling a toy sheep pattern that looked exactly like mine, including using two different sized needles on different parts of the sheep to make gauge with different weight yarn. I was told that due to me being in Canada and them being in the States there was nothing I could do. I was deeply upset at the time, but have since accepted that there is nothing much that I can do, other than make different patterns instead. In the case of this garment it really doesn't look to be the same garment at all. A simple garment with no shaping and a relatively easy stitch pattern is definitely something that multiple people could come up with independently, especially if they are knit at a different gauge with different measurements.
i don't know if i'm more baffled for her going off on a random person and telling her followers to "go tell them how upset i am" and then pretending she did nothing, for her doubling down on her going off when she received deserved backlash for it, or for her not recognizing her own design enough to know another design is different when she sees it. if a 3rd party can look at the 2 designs and see they're different, there's no way the creators of the patterns wouldn't see the difference.
I find it upsetting that she thinks this is her pattern. I've been crocheting for over 25 years and my mother for over 40 years. This pattern is not new at all. This has been seen for many years. It's a basic sweater.
I’m currently studying textile design at university in Australia and my teachers told us that you cannot copyright stitches as it is a method of looping yarn together that is universal knowledge. From what I’ve learnt crediting is always best practice for inspiration, and that directly copy and pasting another persons pattern for example is absolutely not okay. That being said if someone is using the same universal stitch and a universally know way to construct a garment that would not be copyright as this is information that is open and accessible. I’m still learning but this is what I’ve learnt so far at least for Australia’s copyright regarding copyright for fibre art and knit design. Really like how Woolstock and you are promoting such a lovely, positive and collaborative community. It’s lovely to be inspired by others and us all just enjoy and share our love of fibre arts and design with one another. Thank you for the video Emma, this was really interesting to see you cover this, I like how you empathise with both parties and look at it from a kind yet factual way.
I was involved with the paint party industry 10 years ago. It was rife with both people complaining their designs were stolen (I'm sorry hun, but people have painted vases of flowers for a long time) and people actually stealing whole tutorials from other artists. One outstanding case was where the taker had even lifted screenshots from an artist on youtube to use in their advertising.
And in Denmark it’s not even considered art. It’s such an integrated part of traditions and culture that the majority knows how to either knit or crotchet. It’s something you bring to class, university, cafe, friends’ houses, holiday getaways etc to keep your hands busy
Yeah like this sounds like rehashed 'Colour pallete theft' with deviantart ocs with the digital art community not knowing they'd get laughed out of any legal practice if litigation got involved
I feel that making in these spaces should not be a competition but rather a way to make friends and uplift one another. For example, recently, Stephen West was set to release a shawl pattern with kits and everything but when it was brought to his attention that it looked similar to another designer’s pattern, which was a friend of his, he withdrew his design and linked to the other designer so people could purchase their pattern. This is the kind of collaboration the knitting/crochet community needs to see. Thank you for sharing this situation in an organized way. Btw, I’m enjoying your new channel! 🩷
I'm a quilter and I've been thinking about this a lot as I move from being a beginner to having *slightly* more expertise (lol). There are SO many basic patterns out there, and there's a lot of value to having really detailed instructions for basic patterns when you're a beginner. Also, writing instructions, producing a visually appealing design, and marketing on social media are valuable skills separate from the craft itself, and there's absolutely labor involved that you can argue people should be compensated for. But at some point you have to realize that you're engaging with a craft that's been around for ages, and if someone has the same skill set as you they can figure out how to make the same things that you make. The value isn't necessarily in making a new and unique project that no one has ever done, the real value is in teaching people who don't have the same skill set. The folks in the yarn shop clearly have a comparable skillset, if not much more advanced. They happened upon the same idea, because it's basic af. The main character delusion is PALPABLE.
Unfortunately this is what comes of “everyone is their own publisher”. As maligned as “gatekeeping” is, there were benefits to having a clear demarcation between “here’s how I do my basic socks let me write it out on a slip of paper for you” and a professionally published pattern. Not only do professional pattern makers have a better grasp of copyright, they have a better understanding of pattern making as an industry and the emotional detachment to understand there is nothing new under the sun. The knit shop’s response is very professional- in that it runs the viewer through a very normal design process in a very clinical sort of way, explains that no, they are not the same pattern and condescends ever so gently. Knitcroaddict’s sphere of understanding appears to be relatively small, which for a blogger is fine, and she is taking things to heart that are not normally matters of emotion and now she doesn’t want to admit that her reaction was silly and childish. Also, if I wanted to dig through boxes, I’m pretty confident I can find a version of this boxy eyelet sweater pattern from the 90s.
This style sweater has been popular in Scandinavia for decades and has had a resurgence recently. I actually saw a similar sweater in a store today, except it was rainbow. This being an American creator and a Danish store there would likely be very little overlap in customers. I haven't looked at both patterns, but I know from experience that Scandinavian patterns tend to be very different from English ones. The way of thinking can be very different, which is part of why translating patterns can be so difficult.
I feel like this situation could have been avoided if she didn’t react so impulsively to the possible plagiarism. If she had taken more time to look into the company/patterns and took more time to communicate with the company, she would have seen that the situation was a lot more nuanced and less severe than she thought it was. While I understand that artists can be very quick to call out possible actions of plagiarism due to there being a long history of fast fashion corporations stealing from smaller artists, artists should properly do extensive research into the situation before making a serious accusation like that.
If she just knew more about the craft she claims to be so good at, she would know that her ideas and designs aren’t original and have existed for hundreds of years in - amongst others - Denmark 😅
They don't even LOOK like the same sweater in the photos. The different drape, sleeves, neckline, all make a huge difference in fit. This is honestly silly. Using the same stitch doesn't constitute design theft. Additionally, as so many other comments point out, this sweater is so basic in design that advanced yarn crafters could recreate it without a pattern at all. I have a HUGE cashe of screen grabs of pieces i want to copy and or modify or purchase a pattern for. And there is a big difference between an independent shop having a similar pattern vs SHEIN or Wish making sweatshop dupes and literally using the original creators' photos in marketing.
7:10 I bought this sweater at H&M in 2003. I bought a more expensive version at Banana Republic in 2009. This is literally the most basic sweater I have ever seen in my life. What is this chick even talking about
Agreed. That store owner was aggressive and shady. They also have simple pattern like that behind a paywall. Who in their right mind would think that is kind or genuine lol
It's always interesting when people use their cultural norms to judge someone far removed from those norms. Yes, it might have been a bit of a dig, but considering the context of Danish and Scandinavian culture of not taking yourself too seriously, especially compared to Americans, who take themselves way too seriously. Your cultural norms are not theirs, and vise versa.
And as a someone with a Canadian and “Northern” American background I thought the small excerpts from the video we saw, recorded in English (not her native language) came off as very genuine, and restrained. It was obvious to me she was trying to be kind and not react to all the accusations and nastiness thrown her way. I guess the internet, with all its vast wisdom, 🙄 will decide which of us is correct.
