The Law of 20% 

This channel is a huge revelation for me. So good to hear someone speaking with his heart. Thanks JP Cormier! Claudio, from Montréal :)

J. P. you are exactly right on that 20% rule. I went into a shop in Truro, about 10 yrs ago. Tried out every guitar in their high end guitar room, could not find what I was looking for. One of the music teachers came in & asked me what I was looking for. I told him and he said would you mind if I showed you a less expensive guitar. He went and picked up a Walden, $600. guitar, Try that he said, so I dug out my pick and started to play it, I was totally blown away. The thing was a cannon I asked him why he was hiding it way at the back, he said when I get back from lunch there is where I head for and pick it up every day, he said I'm going to miss her. that is the honest truth.that's all I got.

8:00 I literally LOLed so hard that I've decided to have another beer to celebrate. Thanks for the video and insight!

Love that guitar! (The Boucher that you opened with)

Love this channel 👍🏻

Man I love the way you play deep river blues

Visited his shop a couple of years ago.He`s a true gentleman and as nice a person as you will ever want to meet..Ill have one before long....

I appreciate your transparency. I bought my son a RK banjo and it is very decent for a lower end, starter banjo. I have been looking at Boucher dreads, and though they are not inexpensive, they are fairly priced in comparison to some other well known boutique builders. There is a shop here in Atlanta who is a Boucher dealer, but they do not have any dreads in stock, so I am considering making a 5 hour drive to Johnsonville, TN where they have several very nice dreads to choose from. I'm at the point in life where I am ready for that lifetime guitar, and it is worth the drive to make sure I get exactly what I want. Cheers man. I hope you and the Mrs are doing great!

what a great tutorial thank you so much

Nice to see you and hear you again JP

Good advice J.P. Thanks.

That first 27 seconds was enough to make me subscribe. I play the same kind of blues my brother.

Great video, thanks for sharing. I just recieved my B&G private build a couple of weeks ago. Small builder in Tel Aviv. Couldn't be happier.

Loved this video.

Sage advice, JP. Invaluable to thousands.

I love the edit!

I have a 1995 Taylor solid spruce top, solid maple back and sides, yet I always go to my Yamaha LS16M all solid wood. I found it when I saw you playing one JP, thank you.

I wouldn’t expect the last of twenty percent out of Yamaha. Somehow, their instruments are always consistent, in my experience at least. Great video, JP!

The best advice for any guitarist.

Great advice

There seems to be a few cheap parlours coming out. I’ve seen the Gretsch Jim dandys and I really dig the bluesy sound of em. That recording king looks really cool aswell, I think it was the one they played in buster Scruggs a few years ago.

Very interesting!

It's like cars, I used to try and get a car that was built on tuesday, wednesday, or thursday. My reasoning was that a car built on monday was built by people coming back from a weekend off and not really in the groove, and a car built on friday was built by people eager to start the weekend. Thus, I figured that wednesday cars were the most likely to be well made! Of course, robots and CNC machines are all computer controlled so it doesn't matter now. However, I think it does translate to the guitar companies.

J.P. you are spot on with the Recording King's.... if one is going for that pre-war country blues sound this is the guitar for you. Don't let the low cost fool you. I think the company does an over all excellent job and this is my goto guitar I keep next to my bed. :). I have played many of the luthiers you mentioned; TJ Thompson, Kim Walker, Jeff Traugott, Kevin Ryan, Goodall, Olson, and they are works of art and perfection that will be family heirlooms. They also sound perfect in every aspect. But if you play the old blues style, these inexpensive parlor sized guitars hit the spot, they enhance those old time songs. I see Gretsch has a Jim Dandy which from watching a few RU-vid videos , also looks pretty good. Btw, I recently sold off my guitars to lead a more minimalist lifestyle and it came down to two guitars at the end, my Martin 000-15sm and the Recording King parlor, I kept the King, just love the smaller size.

I'm all set with that... I can attest to the %20 from my days in retail and repair. It even applies to woodwind instruments. Every so many saxophones out of a shipment would blow your mind. Also I would always get my customers to try almost every guitar in the shop when shopping. You may find what you are looking for on the less expensive rack. Love ya and miss ya my friend.

I’m going to add Yairi to the list of guitars you can risk online buying. Done it twice. Both brilliant.

that liberty RK is beautiful!! gotta have one!

It helps to be a Player Builder/Luthier all in one. My handcrafted customs only made a handful completely by hand using my stash of very old seasons woods I’ve had stashed for 40 years -and it was seasoned years before I snatched it up. And yes I often pick up relatively inexpensive guitars and finesse the overbuilt Braces/take down the thick poly finish and customize them into gems. Last 2 Guitars I did this to-Guild GAD M-120 I bought for $350 and a mid -late 90s Guild JF30 jumbo maple for $600 that was over braced like most factory guilds are. Those Guitars now are killer Tone Machines. Good Vid👍

All of the 20% are located in the guitar center located 2 miles from my home.

I'm definitely getting John a coffee or 10....good on ya John...we need ya...!!

I’m borrowing that progression you played at the beginning. That G#dim(b6) you play after the E major is soooo damn tasty

Great video

Great example of: "acquired guitar syndrome". Why have one when you can have Ninety.

Thanks for your very informative video posting. I noticed you didn't mention Lowden guitars from Northern Ireland. Was just wondering what your opinion of that company is.(?) I have an old 1994 Lowden and I love it to death.

So true!! Received a custom shop les paul that needed alot of set up work for the price point.. but it does happen time to time 🤷‍♂️

Would love to see you review the Alvarez 00 Delta or another one of their 00/parlor sized guitars

Great video. Eimers is a wonderful guitar builder, top notch gypsy jazz guitars. He can custom it to any spec you like for example, Maple fretboard on a acoustic which is pretty rare on acoustics. Fender custom shop is pretty good as far as big name.

I order one from reverb and sent it back fretting on so many notes. So I brought it for a set up. He said send it back bridge is lifting. Not good. But it was a used guitar. A 2010 the solid dread with all the bling. Not good but it was 13 years old. Thanks John…

Very true points here…

Great vid

I really enjoy your videos JP. Thanks for sharing your experience and expertise!

which strings is set on the ro-328 (gauge/manufacture), it really sounds good. thanks for another gr8 video j.p

Yes I've learnt that. I've bought a few guitars on eBay, 'sight unseen' as you say and I've been disappointed with 75% of them. I think I've also been quite unfair sometimes in judging a whole particular range just by my experience of one from that line. Guitars that I've bought after actually listening to them have been a joy to own, except one, where I suspect that the one I eventually picked up after finishing paying for it wasn't the exact guitar I trialed before it got 'put in the back on layby'. So I would certainly add that to your advice: If you have to go back to the shop when you have enough money, don't put one on layby' unless it's particularly super rare, or you can note an identifying feature or mark on it. Wait until you have enough money, and then go to the shop, try out as many guitars as you have time to that fit your budget, and buy the one you like the most, paying for it in full there and then, taking it with you. If you don't have the funds, I would say get a cheap guitar to fool around with and practice on while saving up.....unless of course, the shop has a take it home and pay later in installments policy, which is great if they do. I still have the cheap secondhand half size Spanish guitar (A Herald) that kept me company while saving up, and I still like playing it when I want a relaxed practice. But I would also say, if you can, don't buy anything you don't like the sound of.

First time I’d watch your video, subscibe right away. Let us keep strumming good guitars.

Didn't Dave already write the song about this? Made on a Monday! Lol great video JP and very well put. Although I believe you could pick up any guitar and make it sound amazing. I wish I had your knowledge and talent of playing guitars! 🙏

Hey John you are awesome. Perhaps you could review some of the Australian built guitars

I have 6 Recording kings, 4 all solid select woods and 2 lower end solid top and laminate back and sides…. One of my six had some build flaws (the frets were sharp on both sides of the neck)… even with a skipped step in the finishing the guitar still sounds good…. And the higher end models sound great. Guess I’m saying that my experience with the law of 20% seems to agree with what you’re saying… Thanks for your videos!

Mother of toilet seat fretboard. A great line.

Thanks for sharing your experiences and expertise. There’s a problem today with buying guitars and it is that guitar shops don’t typically have very many guitars in stock to try. I looked at all the shops in my area and none had the models I was looking for. So, while trying multiple guitars before buying is a great idea, it’s just not an option. So far I’ve bought three different acoustics off the internet without playing or hearing them beforehand. Luckily I’m mostly happy with them. My biggest complaint is that most guitars are built with thin necks. I’m accustomed to thicker necks and find them more comfortable.

An interesting take. Are hand built guitars exempt of the 20% rule? Differences in how the wood travelled etc. I'm literally just about to build my first guitar, just finishing off building my workbench first. I've been filming it.

Bad news is most stores don't keep a lot of inventory of the better models on their floor. It's all online now and you have to keep ordering and possibly returning to find a gem.

Have you tried any of Grit Laskin's guitars?

Ever play a Froggy Bottom ? It was one of the most amazing sounding acoustic steel string I ever played... but way out of my budget

How right you are about brand loyalty blindness .. none of my Higher end guitars sound as good as my old Yamaki Deluxe that changed ownership 3 times in Viet Nam

I just wanna come hang out and continue this convo in person. I'll bring all the guitars I made...I'm on number 8 so...

Hi JP. Thanks for posting this video! I really enjoyed it and I agree, in principle with what you are saying. I hope you are correct about being able to count on guitars from a small builder like Boucher to be awesome 100% of the time. I actually found you, indirectly, through Boucher guitars. I am part of Tony Polecastro's guitar geek online community and watched a video he did comparing a custom 12 fret Bourgeois that he had built to his specs with the JP Cormier signature model 12 fret Boucher that someone had provided for him to review. The Bourgeois was a great guitar but the Boucher blew me away! I wanted to learn about the musician that inspired that kind of an instrument and found you on RU-vid and have been watching your vids ever since. Now, I do have a disagreement with your characterization that 20% of the guitars from every mass builder will have problems. I agree that even upper echelon guitar brands like Martin & Taylor send out a crappy guitar now and then. But I also believe that the quality control in factories like Martin, Tayler, Gibson, Yamaha and other major brands is way superior to QC in a Chinese factory for brands like Recording King that focus more on lower end models. Those high end brands have huge worldwide followings and if 20% of their finished instruments were dogs ... well the blogosphere, twitter, FB and youtube would be lit up with complaints on a daily basis. Your point is well taken that every company produces a substandard quality instrument from time to time. But I sincerely doubt Taylor wouldn't catch the kind of blemishes that you described on the Recording King you recently bought. In fact, I am a bit shocked that Recording King doesn't have better QC than that! I live in Denver, a fairly large urban area but it is not a center of guitar commerce. If I want to find a store that has 20 Martins, 20 Taylors or 20 of almost any guitar brand, I need to travel to another city or order online. Inspired by the JP Cormier Signature Boucher (but not wanting to spend $5K) I ended up buying a used Martin 000-15sm off Reverb. There was none to be found within a 3 hour drive of my home where I could try one out. I bought it used and had a great experience. The guitar sounds great and cost me about half of retail on a new one. I felt confident that my odds of ending up with a truly crappy Martin were probably closer to 1% rather than 20%. That's my two bits anyway. Keep up the great work JP.

I've tried some Martin's D-28 that sounded really bad ! My Alvarez MD60EBG beat the shit of many D-20's! And i've played one D28 that threw me on the floor how good and canon it was( i should have bought it damn it!) But you are so right John, only 2 out of ten are worth the money!

Very interesting! I just wonder now, if about 20% are worse, is it also the other way around, that some are much better than average? If that is the case, is it possible to estimate a percent number?

Very nice, John. I'm new to your channel and I really enjoyed this. A couple of things. I'm assuming you mean 20% fall short of the usual standards of the company, rather than 20% are duds. If it was the latter, that would mean 1 in every 5 Martins (or Taylors, Gibsons, etc) on the shelves would be a dud. If that was the case, there are either a lot of people with tin ears or Martin would have been out of business long ago. I used to be a statistician, and it seems to me that factory guitars follow the normal distribution curve, meaning that about 90% are pretty good 5% are great to excellent and 5% are poor edging to duds. Also, do you think your rule applies to left handed guitars. I have 3 American Martins (HD35, J40, MC68) and I can't really fault any of them. I also have a John Mcquarrie and have had 4 English handmade guitars, and I put the Martins against any of them. Do lefties benefit from better quality control as the batches are smaller?? Thanks again for this

JP, on your advise, I bought a used Alvarez Yairi slope shoulder dread mail order. I was not sorry. Fabulous guitar. I guess I lucked out and got the 80%. All the best from Colorado.

Any opinions about Mackenzie and Marr guitars? They advertise 'old world' building methods, albeit in a shop in China. Does the 20% rule apply with M&M?

Any advice for someone who wants to play a guitar before buying, but finds that the stores around town only carry Martin's and Taylor's in the higher quality range. I have played many guitars that sounded tinny, made my fingers bleed or were warped or twisted. Now that I've saved my money, stores do not have upper end Fenders or Yamahas in acoustic guitars. Plenty of electric guitars, though) I don't really want the electronics cuz I play to ease stress...just to refocus and for the joy of it. How do I find a place to play the guitars I may be interested in, when they don't get those in for me to play?

Would you consider Alvarez Yiari guitars small shop?

JP, what do you think about Alvarez Yairi? Are their guitars produced under the laws of 20% or are they considered to be more like Boucher? I've bought many over the years and not a dud in the bunch.

Rushing guitars..Tenn....damn fine guitar!

Gibson acoustics are not usually found in medium size music stores anymore. It is even hard to find Gibson electrics. It is all Martin & Taylor acoustics now. And in medium to small stores, it is all Fenders & Japanese brands for electrics.

I think it’s the other way around. Only 20% of assembly line guitars come out worth the price tag.

So is this RK repairable? Because if it is, and it's just a matter of the nut replacament or so..then it's still a good deal, right?

wish Ide held on to my dirt 30s parlor but traded around a bit to get a mitchell mini, love the RK but the solid top etc was a good trade. still want a "good" RK mine had bridge lifting issues

If you are left handed, you rarely have choices in a music stores. Mail order can bring its own frustrations when shopping left handed.

What can be done if the guitar does sound good, but has other structural problems? Should I contact Recording king?

I bought on of the recording king parlors just like yours. Mine is one of the 20%. Somehow the scale length is 5/32 to short and it's the neck. No way the intonation at the 12th fret will ever be right it's over 10 cent flat. You said they are pretty good about replacing guitars that are defective. How does this work ? I can only contact them via email . According to their warranty seems you are required to ship the guitar to them and pay the shipping. Is this how it works . I have emailed them and have not heard back so I'm lost . I love the guitar other than the intonation issue. Any help would be great.

Is that 20% law true for Yamaha's ? I'd like to buy a second hand FS3 but it is too far away from me for a live test. Thank you very much.

Would you buy a Collings guitar with a top crack.

My mid 80’s Taylor was made by a 13 person company! 😎

There isn’t a Boucher on reverb less than $3000 now!! Value going up??

When are you going to review Maton acoustic guitars?

I'd rather say that the main reason to purchase a guitar from an individual luthier is that you can have it tailored to your tastes. You want the neck to be a bit wider than usual, thicker frets, a narrower body? All feasible. Got my archtop and classical guitar like that and it's definitely worth the price and the wait. Visit a luthiers' fair (when this darn pandemic is over), speak with the luthiers, identify the girl or guy whose instruments and approach suit you, and voilà!

Sweet 12 fretter!

J.P., what do you think of Santa Cruz?

That’s the pure truth so now you can order five recording kings and keep the best sounding one and sell the other four and still come out smelling like a rose (Right)

Membership has its privileges! ....And, you were right JP.... I am special !!! I’ve been expecting this video. lol ....When I watched the unboxing of this 20%er I could tell there was a different smell in the air that day. Lol... I’ve been to the school on 20% street. The nuns there hit hard. No doubt you’ll save someone from the same lesson. Merci !!

What are your thoughts on Furch?

just bought an RO 328.

How many guitars do you have J.P.??????

I've been playing guitar for the past 30 years. Only Acoustic. One thing I've noticed, over the past 10 years, and it has become a problem. I would venture to say that the number is more like 40%! I have ordered no less than 8 guitars through various retailers like American Musical Supply and Sweetwater and have NEVER received a flawless guitar. I'm confident that companies send online retailers their "B Grade" guitars because they know "In Person" sales people can't sell them. The reason I believe this is because I picked up an Alvarez MD60 from my local dealer. Awesome guitar, and I've loved Alvarez since the 80's, even through they aren't the same company I grew to love. However, my buddy ordered the exact same guitar from an online retailer and got a dud. It was almost identical by the looks of it, but the sound was waaaayyyy off.. I mean. You could tell that something was wrong with that Mail Order Guitar.

How about the cheap Gretches like the little Jim dandy parlor you ever play those.

"They shit to bed on this one". LMAO

JP, I'm thinking about ordering a yamaha red label cuz I cant fund one I'm a store to play around here...I'm guessing that's not the best idea.

that same concept applies to violins J.P. See Dr. Frye's work on plate adjustments on YT.

I started watching Mr Cormier because I was looking to get an Alvarez md60ebg and saw the Martin Vs Avarez 'blindfold test' videos which were fantastic. My problem is that where I live in Western Australia we are probably one of the most remote cities in the world. So we don't have a lot of choices in market flooded by Cort and the like. Covid has prompted us to close our borders and given we have only about 4 active cases at the present this was a good idea. The problem I have is that trying 'before you buy' in my budget and skill level means that even if i can try a few Martins and Gibsons, Furch etc, most of them fell way below my expectations as far as playability and sound for the $ spent. I could choose between a a budget level Martin or a top level RK or Alvarez. However, RK and Alvarez just are not stocked locally here, I needed to buy sight unseen from stores that would honor any shortfalls on a guitar bought online. Not too many of these kinds of stores or suppliers around unfortunately. So, I did buy the Recording King Jubilee RAJ 26 (J45 clone) and the Alvarez md60ebg, sight unseen and unplayed. The RK is near as perfect as any guitar I have seen or played and a way better guitar than I am a guitar player. The Alvarez is also pretty amazing but suffers from some cosmetic finishing flaws and was priced accordingly. I guess my point (finally getting there) is that the law of 20% is particularly pertinent when you are buying sight unseen and unplayed. I have also bought a RK RD-G9M solid spruce and hog B&S and it was a frustrating guitar that proved that flawless finish, great materials still don't make a good guitar. I have owned the RK base line Dreadnaughts and they played and sounded a thousand times better than the unfortunate RD-G9M.

If you like beer check out Mississippi mud. Very inexpensive but a great buy. Save money for guitars✌️

Have you played the Recording King Dirty 30s Deluxe 000? I just played on one and I think it is a STEAL at its price for the sound you get.

I played on a Boucher dreadnought at a guitar store and it sounded like crap. I think the 20% rule applys to Boucher as well.

I have a Martin hd28v which was my dream guitar in but it has not lived up to my expectations. It just had a neck reset I think there are issues with the years they where built. It hard to give up on it. I think I'm going to give up on it and buy a UK built instrument.

Can you please review the rd- t16 , thanks

I have played more Martins than I can count and honestly, I find them pretty consistent. And I'm not even a huge Martin fan. Gibson, on the other hand, maybe one in five is worth a damn at best, custom shop or not no difference. I've played plenty of customs as well, but I find it really hard to justify the price in this day in age - and yes I've seen enough clear duds from smaller shops as well. It's often too expensive for them to sell a guitar off as a second, where Gibson could actually afford to do it.

You’re so right. I was surprised , looking at a rack of martins along with Taylor’s that the action was so bad , I wouldn’t even try it. Now maybe the decent ones were gone. Probably ? The intonation must be way off . A Martin?? Of all guitars. I own a 72 D 28 but I keep playing a $44.00 Glarry. Has a better(booming) room filling Em. I keep it in the corner by the couch.

Sad thing I have bought a couple of guitars thinking these are great and got them home within a few days. Found out they fall in that 20 percent. Now I'm stuck with them🙄

Does that include Yamaha made in Japan? I just got a FGX5 and was a little disappointed but then again I can’t make any guitar sound like JP. Maybe I got a dud. It sounds Ok. Just not WOWSERS if you know what I mean