To me, it all depends on what is meant by "discussing"! If a "discussion" means a "two-way discussion", for the purpose of figuring out whether or not the Church should change her teaching on the matter, then I say a resounding "NO"! Such a discussion is absolutely NOT needed, because there IS no controversy over what the Bible says, or what the Church has historically taught and believed, and under NO circumstances should she change her understanding on this! HOWEVER, if "discussion" is understood to mean that we openly and lovingly communicate to others WHY the Holy Church holds the standards she does, AND communicate why this is actually a message of LOVE, and not of judgment or hate, then I say YES, we MUST discuss this with others. We must communicate why rejecting the LGTBQ+ agenda is truly a matter of loving others, and desiring to help them turn from the passions, and follow Christ for salvation.
Yes incredible these three have betrayed the Orthodox faith.Ware is senile, Louth alcoholic and Behr obviously mentally deranged. Are there any modern day English Orthodox left?
@@deanaburnham9571 I see your point, but, I also think that having specificity in one's speech in being concise as to what the problem and positions are is also needed. The word " violence" you state is not a word i would use. That word has been used so much that it gives a false narrative as to what it really going on. Orthodoxy has never done any violence against anybody. It's teachings are harsh but consistent for all sinners. This is the biggest problem that I see. And the gentleman who made his position known said " we are wanting OUR agenda in the Church." ( emphasis mine.) That's not what the Church is about. This is the body of Christ not some political Ideology to be used at one's leisure. Whether right, left, up, down, etc....
@@deanaburnham9571 his ideas within the last ten years as well as fr Louths, have slowly stopped becoming Orthodox and have encouraged a more liberal interpretation as to the teachings of the Church concerning the issues being brought up in this documentary. The church has been consistent in its teachings concerning the LGBT issues. I honestly think that for fr john and fr louth and others they have allowed doubt to creep in because they had no answer to the objections that were being brought to them. I think in the end, they said " if you can't beat them, join them." They don't know how to answer the question to there own journey of theosis. I think they felt and feel the pressure to having answers being academics and realized that for themselves and others they just don't know what to do and how to interact with this and other issues that sprung up that the "bridges" group are trying to justify using the saints as there personal correspondence as to why they (LGBT) should not have to have to conform to Church teachings just like every body else.
@@paintedtree6408Homosexuality Is A Sin! Eastern Orthodoxy Is The One Truth! "Oriental Christian Is Wrong! Ecumanism, Gay Flags Should Not Be In Our Church!!!
Fr. John's 'Behold the human being' restatement of Pilate's words fits rather snugly into a conference questioning and neutralising gender. I rather suspect that we should stick to the Roman Procurator's 'Behold the Man!', rather than 'Behold the gender-neutral human being'.
How heartbreaking. This is such a sad sign of the times. And yet it’s an old old spirit that says “I know better than God!” . 🐍Repentance begins at the House of God. May God have mercy. Church have courage 🙏🏼☦️❤️
Every time it seems these people play both sides of the fence that first the Church has been unaccepting of homosexuals but that there's also no clear tradition condemning it. You cannot have both. It is either clear tradition or it has not been clearly addressed, and we all know what the truth is on that matter.
Also, the dishonesty of "let's just have a conversation" is baffling to me. They should just come out and say what they want instead of pretending like all they want is to talk about it. They want to talk about it so that they can guilt clergy into subverting the clearly established order by making them feel like mean-spirited bigots. It is also very telling that this is not blessed by any particular Church authority and that they think this is a good thing. It is utterly scandalous. If any "conversation" on this were to happen and have any sort of impact on the Church, it'd have to be conciliar in nature and, like most councils, meant explicitly to address active heresy threatening the Church, like you know the wholesale subversion of the Church's sexual ethics.
@@sunnyperka5791 The scriptures are the written tradition of the Church. We do need tradition to convey what is and isn't sin. You are still correct that we love the sinner and not the sin, though.
@@sunnyperka5791 Yes, this is of course true. However, we as the Church need to understand precisely what this means. To some, "loving the sinner but hating the sin" can easily be twisted to mean "never judge another person's reality". But this is not what is meant. Loving the sinner but hating the sin requires telling others what they need to hear about their sin, in a loving way, to show that the way out of their sinful lifestyle is only through repentance, and turning to the cross and resurrection of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Paul described them: 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which may be known of God is manifest in them, for God hath shown it unto them. 20 For from the creation of the world the invisible things of Him are clearly seen, being understood through the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse. 21 For when they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God, nor were thankful, but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man, and to birds and fourfooted beasts and creeping things. 24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies among themselves. 25 They changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature. 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men, working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense for their error which was meet.
These creeps make my skin crawl. God forgive me, but my blood does boil that these people are trying to infiltrate the Church of Christ. I must remind myself that the Gates of Hell will not prevail and heretics have attempted to sink the ark of salvation since Pentecost
What is this?!?!.. there is no major issue, the truth is the truth of our lords words. There is negotiation within Orthodoxy . Why are you people looking to change our lords teachings SODOM AND GOMORRAH.
VERY eye-opening documentary! I hadn't realized this was so wide-spread! I was shocked to learn on your documentary, that one of these people supporting the "alternative Orthodoxy" is someone I had actually known personally, and used to respect as a solid Orthodox believer! Not any more! Thank you for opening our eyes to the subversive work that is going on!
God confounds the wisdom of the wise. Repent or you have no future share in the Kingdom of God, for GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED, or have you not heard? Lord have mercy!
