The Little Giants: Forney Locomotives

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These little engines often get overlooked because of their more famous and well-known cousins, the American 4-4-0, or even the Big Boy. But Forneys were amazing little puffers, that really changed the way a locomotive could be engineered and were often the locomotive of choice for municipal transit and narrow gauge short lines! This is all about the Forney Locomotive!
#trains #steamlocomotive #steamtrain
Walt's Disneyland Railroad Documentary:
• Walt's Disneyland Rail...
VIDEO CREDIT:
Footage of Leviathan 4-4-0 number 63 is credited to Dynamo Productions:
• Leviathan 63 Test Runs...
Footage of Wiscasset, Waterville & Farmington Ry in summer is credited to South Coast Rail Videos:
• Restored railroad: Wis...
Footage of Wiscasset, Waterville & Farmington Ry in winter is credited to John Meixel:
• Video
Footage of Fullerton Station is credited to RichardsTrainsAndMore:
• Railfanning Fullerton ...
Footage of Durango & Silverton RR is credited to FJX2000 Productions:
• The High Line of the D...
MUSIC CREDIT:
Acoustic/Folk Instrumental by Hyde - Free Instrumentals / davidhydemusic
Creative Commons - Attribution 3.0 Unported- CC BY 3.0
Free Download / Stream: bit.ly/acousti....
Music promoted by Audio Library • Acoustic Folk Instrume...
I Just Wanted To See Your Smile by Broken Elegance / brokenelegance
Creative Commons - Attribution 3.0 Unported- CC BY 3.0
Free Download / Stream: bit.ly/i-just-....
Music promoted by Audio Library • I Just Wanted To See Y...
"Affirmations" by Scott Buckley:
• 'Affirmations' [Bitter...
SOURCES/REFERENCES:
"Catechism of the Locomotive" by Matthias N. Forney:
archive.org/de...
About the Forney locomotive:
www.forneymuse...
en.wikipedia.o...
About Matthias N. Forney:
en.wikipedia.o...
About Rogue River Valley Railway:
www.historicja...
About the Wiscasset, Waterville & Farmington Ry:
www.wwfry.org/...
About Manhatten's "El trains"
www.bloomberg....
About Chicago's "El trains"
www.discoverli...
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DISCLAIMER: I am not a University-educated historian, Alex the Historian was a nickname I got while working at Disneyland as a tour guide. After 6 years of using it as a stage name for my channel, it would be detrimental to the channel to suddenly change the name.

Опубликовано:

6 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 125

@russellgxy2905 Год назад

I only just realized this but another part of the Forney's flexibility was because they could place their driving wheels entirely in front of the firebox. 4-4-0's couldn't do this because it would lead to horrible rocking and swaying at speeds, so the firebox was usually placed in between the driving axles, which naturally spread apart the driving wheels from each other. With a Forney you could place them as close as you physically could!

@AlextheHistorian Год назад

Very astute observation! I didn't even realize that either

@danielboone3770 2 месяца назад

Forneys are amazing indeed! Love this video! In fact I actually love Forney #6 starting at 6:35.

@ManWhoLovesTheMary Год назад

Dang. There is SO much new information in this video. I can now look at train locomotives and distinguish certain unique differences...and, you know, appreciate them better! I love how beefy and yet fine-lined vintage trains (and structures in general, really) used to be. I'm not saying there aren't impressive and elegant structures today. Each time period creates statements that become timeless. But, O, those vintage trains. I'm so glad people have cared enough for us to experience them today. Because I have been blown away and inspired by old locomotives I've been privileged to experience within my lifetime....Disneyland included.

@cadetkohr5508 Год назад

Forneys really just make you smile when you see them. They're such cute little locos yet they can give some Americans a run for their money! I think I've heard of 2-4-4T Forneys out-preforming a few Prairies.

@merrimacksacoproductions4497 8 месяцев назад

That would not surprise me in the slightest, the weight distribution plays a big role there, too much weight is spread across a Prairie's leading and trailing trucks, it can make them rather light on their feet seeing as their already rather small to begin with. One of my local railroads, Conway Scenic, they used to have two steamers in their early years, a 0-6-0, 7470, and a 2-6-2, 108, and there's a 3% grade coming into No. Conway yard. As trains became more popular, 4 cars were used, and 108 would be notorious for slipping and stalling, not able to make it up the hill if the conditions weren't just right. Meanwhile here's good ol' 7470, capable of hoofin' a 5 car train up the 3% with no problem, you can imagine which of the two is still on the roster today.

@jusjetz Год назад

The Little Engine that Could book version was based on those Foreneys except she’s a 4-2-4t Locomotive.

@johnmeixel9928 Год назад

Thanks for using my videos in yours!

@AlextheHistorian Год назад

You took really amazing footage!

@OfMiceAndTrains Год назад

Well done thanks FRED GURLEY is my favorite engine also.

@jbponzi1 5 месяцев назад

YAY!! Fred!!

@swamppy4880 Год назад

The forneys are original was 2 ft narrow gauge,The W&W&F Ry,use forneys all the time. And the Maine narrow gauge museum has a couple of forneys are outside frame. They were used at Edaville railroad is in carver mass.

@RailPreserver2K Год назад

Might want to go down to Massachusetts and Maine respectively if you want to see more of them

@stevedegaetano8188 Год назад

Very nice Alex! Interestingly, while it doesn’t appear so, the Fred Gurley and the Ward Kimball are built to the exact same specifications. The Gurley, however, has that large fully-enclosed cab.

@AlextheHistorian Год назад

Thats strange I thought Kimballs boiler was 3 inches smaller in diameter, and the overall length was a foot or two shorter.

@stevedegaetano8188 Год назад

They both even have the same Baldwin catalog number! The Kimball even had its smokebox door cast from the original Gurley pattern. When Preston made our drawings of the Kimball, we just started with the drawing of the Gurley that we already had.

@NorseNerdleMeister Год назад

Such a well-done and detailed vid. It’s so cool to hear the both the history and technics of this engine. The ingenuity of the design was amazing! Dang, now I want one for my train layout 😁

@AlextheHistorian Год назад

Lol I probably would have made a good car salesman

@luislaplume8261 Год назад

@@AlextheHistorian Believe it or not, my late father's father was a Dodge Motor Car salesman in the 1920s in Havana,Cuba. He was bi lingual as am I.

@dermottmcsorley8641 Год назад

The WW&F is building a new Fornney

@AARON-K4RNA Год назад

I always learn something new from your videos. Thanks Alex

@AlextheHistorian Год назад

You're welcome!

@mike.4277 Год назад

This is my second comment since my first one is gone for some reason. I said in my first comment, great excellent video 😎👍. Then said to search Honesdale,pa. It is the birthplace of the American Railroad. They have lots of history and a working replica of the Stourbridge Lion, the first ever made locomotive.

@nordisk1874 Год назад

I love how there’s a famous porters in her original configuration. Before she got buffers and side tanks!

@johnkuzma7066 Год назад

Don't need to be nitpickiy but Tractive effort isn't at all related to the weight on the drivers, it only relates to the cylinder bore, stroke and wheel diameter as well as boiler pressure. Adhesion and weight distribution are the only things that the number of drivers changes. So more wheels means you can have more Tractive effort without slipping but doesn't give you any more power.

@AlextheHistorian Год назад

I'm trying to explain things in a way that newbies can understand. If they want the nuanced information they can do research from there.

@stevedegaetano8188 Год назад

True. The formula is available online. It’s pretty straightforward and weight isn’t a variable.

@VestedUTuber Год назад

"Big Boy is the largest steam locomotive ever built" Jawn Henry: "What am I, chopped liver?"

@donl1410 Год назад

Bend Oregon, here. Very informative, Thanks

@ShackCoreContingency Год назад

Alex, it finally caught traction. The difference between the engines C.K. Holiday and E.P. Ripley (4-4-0), and the 2-4-4(0) Forney engines. I get it now now.

@kupferbergbahn7952 Год назад

Very nice to see a full video about these fantastic little engines. Forneys are definitely my favorite steam locomotive too, I've actually designed my own for my model railroad.

@Sckadoo Год назад

I've been playing a bunch of Railroads Online recently and have been itching for content. This really helped satisfy that itch lol

@RaeAnn_1202 Год назад

Alex, I thoroughly enjoyed this video! I learned a lot and the way it is written and edited made learning extra fun. Very well done. Thank you!

@AlextheHistorian Год назад

Thanks!

@Azure-Scenic-View-Railroad Год назад

Thank you Alex, very helpful for me and my layout ideas.

@a101a6 Год назад

Interesting note is the improved/offshoots of the Forney design. For example the Disneyland Forney's are technically no longer Forney's due to the addition the single pilot axle as the 2-4-4 is actually called a "Boston" type. There was a larger and more powerful design of the Forney called a "Super Forney" which was a 0-6-4. Also the early Forney designs by Matthias Forney were actually designed to run bunker first which is why we see examples of 0-4-4's with cowcatchers on the rear instead of the front.

@NorseNerdleMeister Год назад

Alex, my ON30 Forney has been a little temperamental as I’ve been using it for my layouts 3 coach passenger train. It was running inconsistently and stalling. My layout is not 100% level, so I thought the Forney was just not suited to it and almost gave up. I decided to try and pull my 9 car freight train with it and wow, it works flawlessly! The little giant seems to thrive under more weight and it’s amazing that Bachmann was able to translate that realism into actual operation!

@reenabearkitty Год назад

I know almost next to nothing about trains. Thanks for the info 🙂

@SAOS451316 Год назад

Good work once again! I liked the technical aspects of how these trains worked and why.

@lindasolis7117 Год назад

Aw sweet- thanks so much, Alex! Love these trains and all the footage from Disneyalnd 😍

@raymondleggs5508 Год назад

I love small steam locomotives.

@DanielGomez-gw4kt Год назад

Alex I love the forney steam locomotives, they're very interesting and one of the littlest steam locomotives in America

@leiac4046 Год назад

Amazing video! Best subject! Forneys are the BEST!

@markrutlidge5427 Год назад

I've never heard of these, so thanks 👍👍

@jetsons101 Год назад

Alex, the research you do for your videos is so encompassing. I love vintage steam, but this vid filled in some gaps for me. Thanks for the time and hard work you put into your videos.

@AlextheHistorian Год назад

You're welcome!

@jetsons101 Год назад

Alex, very informative and detailed video. Thanks for all the time you spend on research, editing and writing the script. Overall, a very enjoyable watch.....

@AlextheHistorian Год назад

Thank you!

@jetsons101 Год назад

@@AlextheHistorian Sorry about the short comment but I'm rebuilding a doorway.....

@AlextheHistorian Год назад

Thats alright Mike, I dont hold expectations to commentators!

@pedenharley6266 Год назад

Alex! Fabulous video!! Thank you for this!

@ID2956 5 месяцев назад

Wunderful video ❤ Thank you!

@luislaplume8261 Год назад

The Forneys were mostly used for the elevated train lines of the cities of New York City, Brooklyn and Chicago and Sioux City.

@AlextheHistorian Год назад

Yes indeed, I mentioned that in the video

@dp92492 Год назад

Always love learning new information about the history of railroading. Thanks for the great vid!

@Uptownloki47 Год назад

Great video. Forneys are definitely locomotives that many people sleep on. Could you potentially do a video on the Disney World railroad next?

@AlextheHistorian Год назад

Unfortunately I won't be making any videos of the Disney World Railroad.

@pinchy08 Год назад

I don’t know why, but he doesn’t like Disney World in Florida as much as Disneyland in California.

@royreynolds108 Месяц назад

@@pinchy08 The first 2 locos for Disneyland were built new. The castings even have Disneyland on them. The locos for DisneyWorld are rebuilt plantation engines.

@pinchy08 Месяц назад

Actually the Disney World locomotives once hauled sugar cane in Mexico. 2 4-6-0s, 1 2-6-0, and 1 4-4-0. Even though a 5th locomotive was purchased, it was deemed in rough shape to restore. However its smokestack was salvaged and used on 4-4-0 #4.

@TheTransportationFanfromCA Год назад

0:51 that one of my favorite engines Sierra 28, ps very good video Alex.

@toshibavoodoo Год назад

Awesome!! Great video

@AlextheHistorian Год назад

Thank you!

@katiestoker8391 Год назад

These trains remind me of the tiny ones that where used in Wales for various jobs. They are so small you often think there is no way, but they do. I've ridden some of them, the views are amazing. They are sometimes referred to as the great little trains of Wales

@royreynolds108 Месяц назад

The Maine 2-footers were inspired by the Festiniog Rwy. in Wales.

@michelleluna4278 Год назад

Makes me want to get into railroading. I have the old model trains that belonged to a model my dad built in our basement when I was a teenager.

@pinchy08 Год назад

Do you have any other upcoming videos discussing other steam locomotives by wheel arrangement? Do the 4-4-0 next.

@AlextheHistorian Год назад

Definitely!

@daveshockwave8098 Год назад

The 0-4-4s, and 2-4-4s are really cool, then the DSP&P came and there were the 2-6-6s, and 2-8-6s

@VirginiaRican 3 месяца назад

Wow, for passenger count, that's like the same as a dream liner

@RailPreserver2K Год назад

By the way Alex do you think you could do a video covering the Glover machine works out of Marietta Georgia? They built steam locomotives for a very brief time and I think only six or seven of them still exist. I know the plant in Marietta survived until 1995 and when they went to go tear it down they went in and salvaged as many blueprints, Patterns, parts and machines as they could as well as apparently two or three locomotives that were still inside the plant after 90 years

@chiparooo Год назад

Very interesting history! Well done. Thanks for sharing!

@DC4260Productions Год назад

4:26 - That locomotive is not a Porter, but rather a USATC 'S100' class (still a good video regardless). If memory serves, the S100s were built during World War 2, with most of them being exported to Europe and Asia. At least one is still preserved in the US, at that's Granite Rock number 10.

@underthebus5801 Год назад

Thank you for explaining the 4-4-0 wheel configuration in simple terms. You are articulate and all your videos are a pleasure to watch and informative. I’ve sub and look forward to future presentations.

@AlextheHistorian Год назад

Thanks!

@Zebrails Год назад

"Thumbs Up" 480 Mastodon... Now I want a Forney. I have two O-4-4 aftershave decanters. Not the same as an electric I can put on rails and power up... I'm not sure I could safely still use the liquid contents of these as power scents, if I have any sense to add my own two cents... John

@fiercetrains4052 Год назад

You know the ward kimbell was preivously owned by cedar point right? It's name while working for the CP&LE was "Maud L."

@AlextheHistorian Год назад

Yes in my video about the history of the Disneyland Railroad I go into detail about all 5 engines.

@Transit_Biker Год назад

Awesome video! Gotta make one on the geared locomotives at some point!

@NW-gi1cp Год назад

Imagine a video about the n&w 1218

@josephpiskac2781 Год назад

The Civil War Union Military Railroad is interesting.

@raphaelmarquez9650 Год назад

These Forney Locomotives have more design appeal than modern trains, so I hope they make electric-powered variants of these models to make environmentally friendly trains without sacrificing their look factor.

@CiscoRoo Год назад

Very interesting and informative!

@AlextheHistorian Год назад

Thanks!

@jeffreycharles5035 Год назад

Cool video and even snuck a little disneyland history in there!

@AlextheHistorian Год назад

Had to! Lol

@NewEnglandFoamer Год назад

As a forney myself I can confirm we have some advantages

@danielboone3770 Месяц назад

I love Forney #1911 starting at 1:08 too!

@newobanproductions999 Год назад

While the 0-4-4T was a dependable configuration in the US, the same couldn't be said for the UK who found only _one_ use of it. To the British, the 0-4-4T only found usage as a suburban tank engine with examples dating back to the 1870s. These were mainly built exclusively as side tanks (much like the engine at 4:20, which is a USATC S100 0-6-0T built during WWII for use in Europe, which last I heard that two Yugoslavian-built copies are still being used today in Bosnia) and sometimes even a heavier front bufferbeam as a way of putting the most weight on the driving wheels. British 0-4-4Ts were used on suburban trains and many had pretty long lives, many even lasting into the 1960s under British Railways. Today, six 0-4-4Ts are preserved (1x CR 439, 1x SE&CR H, 2x LSWR M7s, 1x Met E and 1x LSWR O2) with a brand new NER O (LNER G5) under construction. 0-4-4Ts were also used on the 1ft 11.5in gauge Ffestiniog Railway in Wales but as "Single Fairlies" (or "Mason Bogie" in the US, but the Brits would say otherwise because "we created it").

@AlextheHistorian Год назад

When you say they were used as a "suburban" tank engine, I'm not sure what you mean by that...was it used the same way as a light rail system through suburban neighborhoods and towns?

@newobanproductions999 Год назад

@@AlextheHistorian In UK circles, "suburban" refers to commuter or branch line passenger work. These workings require a powerful locomotive with good acceleration. Engines like the Adams Radial (an 4-4-2T), the Terrier (the famous 0-6-0T like class member Stepney) and Gresley N2 (an 0-6-2T) were built for this role.

@royreynolds108 Месяц назад

@@AlextheHistorian Suburban service is commuter service. The Illinois Central operated suburban service or commuter service in Chicago. That line was electrified and is still in use. I photographed one of the IC suburban engines in North Peoria, IL in 1966 at Vonachins Junction Restaurant. It had been built by Rogers Locomotive Works.

@Emerald-764 Год назад

I love this video, you did a great job

@AlextheHistorian Год назад

Thank you!

@Emerald-764 Год назад

@@AlextheHistorian you're welcome. Forneys are some of my favorite locomotives and I volunteer at a museum that has a few

@ReggieArford 3 месяца назад

"Porter" is not a description of a variety of locomotive. It's the name of a company that built locomotives. They usually built small 0-4-0 industrial locomotives.

@AlextheHistorian 3 месяца назад

I understand, but the 0-4-0 became synonymous with the phrase "Porter Style". It's the same reason today why people call facial tissues "Kleenex" even if that's not the brand they are specifically referencing.

@raymondleggs5508 Год назад

Amusement park sized locomotives.

@nicolaiholm7458 Год назад

Thank you for yet another good video I learned a lot of new things from it

@AlextheHistorian Год назад

Thanks Nicolai!

@DanielGomez-gw4kt Год назад

Alex I know there were Narrow Gauge forney steam locomotives, but have there been any standard gauge forney steam locomotives. That ran on standard gauge track ?

@AlextheHistorian Год назад

Yes, in fact most of the photographs of Forneys that I showed in this video were all standard gauge Forneys. Even the elevated railway Forneys were standard gauge. And the Rogue River Valley Railway also used standard gauge Forneys. There were far more standard guage Forneys manufactured, than there were narrow gauge.

@luislaplume8261 Год назад

@@AlextheHistorian True! The El stations in NYC and in Brooklyn which the was it's own city had narrow platforms to fit in the streets.

@jeremyjohnson457 11 месяцев назад

2-6-6-2 and tank engine 2-6-6-2t 1905 design was rated for 9% grades. Most surviving of the type, the tourist railroads have a hard time keeping weight behind the locomotives.

@aidenayers2486 3 месяца назад

3:58 I wonder if the mine trains from big thunder mountain would be Forneys. This is what I imagine it to look like.

@AlextheHistorian 3 месяца назад

The ones from Big Thunder are Porter style saddle tank engines.

@docjc1842 Год назад

Not to be that girl but if a machine could be cute this one is! Nice video!

@damianstellabott3613 Год назад

Forney had a descendent who worked at Disneyland in the 90s. He pronounced his name For-nay.

@microbusss Год назад

the original WW&F ran from 1895 to 1933 & the new one started in 1989 the Santa Fe in the SF&D RR was dropped on September 30, 1974 when their sponsorship ended

@AlextheHistorian Год назад

When it comes to the history of the WW&F Ry, the history is a bit more nuanced then that. The Wiscasset, Waterville and Farmington Railway was formed in 1907 and was a running company until 1940 when the company went dormant...but technically it never abandoned, so in 1985 they were able to get the company back on its feet and continue running it as the WW&F Ry. This information is available on the museum's website, a link for it is provided in the description of the video. And yes you're correct, the Santa Fe company dropped its sponsorship in 1974, though I'm sure that was just a fun fact you were adding in, and not necessarily correcting.

@microbusss Год назад

@@AlextheHistorian I hope the WW&F makes the track longer in the future too ;-)

@robnewman6101 11 месяцев назад

If you didn't know, the 1860s were the darkest decade during the 19th Century.

@jeremiahintercityrail10 10 месяцев назад

3:31 water sat in a tank never heard of those

@willsen8908 Год назад

Fun fact the 4-8-8-4 big boy is not actually the biggest steam locomotive, and neither is the C&O 2-6-6-6 Allegheny

@Orlandov12 Год назад

The locomotive at 5:55 is not a forney- it is a mason bogie, the difference is the mason bogies had driving wheels on an articulated frame, hence why the firebox is so far behind the power truck. I believe the only mason bogie still in operation today is at greenfield village.

@AlextheHistorian Год назад

But Forney's also had a firebox far behind the driving wheels. I don't see the difference

@Orlandov12 Год назад

@@AlextheHistorian the difference is the forney locomotives driving wheels are in a rigid frame, the mason bogie's are not, the driving wheels are on a power truck and can swivel to negotiate tighter turns. The mason bogie is similar to a fairlie locomotive. I brought up the far back firebox placement because it allows the power truck to swivel in front of it.

@AlextheHistorian Год назад

Oh ok, I see.

@clivesurman3285 Год назад

Hi Alex. I have a couple of suggestions for you regarding the Queen Mary. . What is the best way to contact you please?

@AlextheHistorian Год назад

Hello Clive, email is best: alexthehistorian55@gmail.com

@clivesurman3285 Год назад

Thanks Alex. I sent u a test message so hopefully u receive it. 🙂

@OldIronVideo Год назад

Fred and ward where built to the same blue prints so i think they are the same size

@therailfanman2078 2 месяца назад

The WW&F No. 9 is there only currently operating locomotive, but they are building another 2-4-4T, No. 11. They also have No. 8 but that one is currently not operating. She really needs a new paint job