The LOST LEGIONS & PRIMARCHS of the HORUS HERESY | Legions II & XI: Origins & Lore 

Interesting piece and lot's of interesting and credible theories there! I have no more idea than anyone else what the truth of the matter is, of course. The backstory has certainly evolved and acquired some mass of detail since I first drew up that list of Space Marine Chapters and their Primarchs. I'm not really familiar with a lot of that material either, but it's nice to know that the spirit of the thing has been preserved and even nurtured. I will make just one observation - and it's about the intent of the missing legions - where I think GW have perhaps taken a slightly different tack than I had in mind. Not that this matters of course, and I appreciate that in creating a series of books about the Heresy a lot of things I always intended to be unknowable or semi-mythical had to be addressed directly; something I could never have foreseen when I wrote Rogue Trader. The intent is this: that the removal of records and obliteration of the memory of these Lost Legions was not a punishment but a reward - rather than being purged they were being absolved - and this was based on the assumption they had done something utterly terrible (naturally!) but then done something equally positive to earn redemption. Or think of it as a stain that cannot be erased except by extinction. The Chaos Chapters are unforgiven - out and out bad guys - but the Lost Legions, whatever their deeds, have been forgiven and the stain upon their reputation erased with their memory. At least that was the idea... but times change don't they ;)

During the video I had the idea that one or both of the lost primarchs landed on worlds where humans and xenos coexisted peacefully and that they were unable to accept or even resisted parts of the great crusade. Instead of being corrupted by an outside force like Chaos they were just not compatible with the Emperor's vision of the future of humanity. Maybe it came to a head during the Rangdan war and one of them refused orders or even surrendered to the Rangda in order to try and find a diplomatic solution? A worse crime than falling to chaos; being a hippie. (or at least, believing in coexistence and peace rather than conquest)

40K lore is (in some ways) a masterclass on using unreliable narrators & loose plot threads to tantalize the reader rather than aggravate them. We’ll never really know what happened to II & XI, but this video is the best roundup of the relevant lore snippets from the various books I’ve found thus far (better even than Occulus Imperia’s video). Good job Ian!

Following the cerebvore idea, the infected Primarch could be the ultimate carrier. Too strong to ever die from it, but subjected to a drive to spread their curse to every one, or to even allow the contagion to mutate to become an unstoppable threat

I like the idea that the 2nd primarch basically told the emperor that he was a maniacal genocidal hypocrite. and then took some of his legion and other humans, mechanicus cohorts, etc etc.. and simply peaced out to go start another civilization a far ways away. The primarch realized that he could do something better than the imperium, realizing the Emperor, whatever he was wasn't doing this for the good of humanity but for himself.

I always liked the idea that one of the lost Legion primarchs was assigned to be the void dragon's jailer on Mars and as no whisper of the void dragon could be allowed out that the primarch and his Legion were expunged from history but are still on Mars guarding their prisoner.

Here is something I have been able to theorize. The Emperor built redundancies into the Primarchs; Perturabo and Dorn being an example. Should one of them fail, the Imperium still had a siege master on duty. Yet Magnus the Red is the only Primarch with ultimate psyker abilities. So it stands right reason that one of the lost Primarchs was the other psyker. You can imagine what must've happened to get him and his legion eliminated.

I've been "that guy" and have created a Legion - II Legion. They're, "The Lost". I had to do something with over 200+ Space Marines I've collected over the years. I gave them a Greek style background, the flagship is the Odyssean, and become lost in the Webway when the Emperor sends the Legion to collect data on the Eldar Webway. They were to wait for his arrival at the other side when he completed it. All info was 'lost' to hide the existence of the Legion when they went on their expedition. And, as we all know, the Emperor never did complete the task.

Follow-up: how cool would it be that the 2 missing primarchs never did anything wrong nor heretical, only they peeked beyond the veil: there can be a viable human society outside the Imperium and that's why they were executed/held in the Black Cells. Adding to that: what if that’s why most Primarchs can’t recall anything about them. Emps being Emps. What if Russ - we know how he values self reliance and independence and also how he only looks as being a savage- actually spared them - seeing some weight to their arguments but staying loyal to Emps- and let them go? What if he eventually left everything to check on them/ally with them to fight Chaos? Jaghatai's mindset and behaviour could also work there. Seems to me he only sided with the Imperium because Chaos is just not an option. Plus, what if the Alpha Legion's messy and fractured loyalties have to do with this (i.e. being anti-chaos, but also seeing the Imperium forwhat it is...)? That'd clear things for them, imo

I kinda want to interpret the Lost literally, The Lost, Lost not meaning KIA but literally missing, in a way that makes their return... unlikely. Like a damaged webway gate or bad warp trip.

There's a lot of videos on the Lost Primarchs but this is honestly the most detailed and to the point. You even backed it up with sources from the books! Excellent job!

I like the idea that one (or both) became increasingly pacifist or xenophillic as a result of the rangdan campaign, and saw the reality of the great crusade and what humans were going to do. Another I like is that one (or both) become so intrigued by the webway/warp that they just bugger off. Like if Magnus had even less restraint.

The idea that the II and XI Primarchs "did something worse" than Horus doesn't really ring true to me: rather, Horus' betrayal was something so large that it *couldn't* be covered up in the aftermath of the Heresy. On the idea of the Rangda being part of the mystery... the Dark Angels were heavily involved in that conflict, and their Librarians are often shown to be skilled in telepathy and the extraction and manipulation of memory. Were the First Legion sent to combat the Rangda because their Librarius was more suited to fighting foes who subverted the mind? Did the Dark Angels help purge Legionaires' memories of the conflict?

I still like the idea of Sigmar being one of the lost Primarchs. Fought against the Rangda but was so horribly wounded that only a portion of his "self" remained. Misdirected away from a journey home to Terra by the forces of Chaos, his stasis pod was sent through The Eye Of Terror and crash landed in The Old World where he was formed anew and become the demi-god of that world - when he left The Old World, walking back into the wastes, he was trying to find his way home. I always liked that as my own personal bit of lore for the Stormcast Eternals too - the way he'd always envisioned his warriors being but could never do it with the power he'd lost when coming to The Old World. Now, in the Mortal Realms, he has been able to perfect the process and fuse science with psychic powers and magic - crafting his own Angels Of Death. I know it's an old meme (but it still checks out) - and I'd love to do a little modelling project (when I have the guts to do so!) where I make that Lost Legion.

I forgot which one of them was mentioned as "good guys" making the other "bad guys" but when it comes to 2nd and 11th, i believe one of the primarchs either willingly or via mind control joned the xenos rang'da and the other died trying to save him. When you think about it, there are plenty exaples where such thing could have happened to existing primarchs with close bond, like Ferrus and Fulgrim, Horus and Sanguinus, Leman and Lion (refering to their fistfight) and so on...

Interestingly in the rulebook for 1989's Space Marine Epic game it says that the 3 chapters (this was before the first founding was commonly referred to as legions) wiped out at Isstvan were purged from Imperial records. The rulebook lists 8 loyal chapters (the current loyal legions, less the Raven Guard) and 9 traitor chapters (the current traitor legions) so at that point the 3 that fell at Isstvan were the lost chapters/legions. It seems to be that the number got changed to 2 when 2nd edition 40k was released and the details about the Isstvan massacre and when those legions were lost got added in later.

I have a head canon that the second primarch along with the majority of her legion sacrificed themselves in the Horrific battle of the Great crusade to protect the Emperor. A loss so painful to the Emperor that he forbid even the mention of them again to hide the shame of HIS loss.

On the topic of primarchs dying, I have a theory that all of them, not just Vulkan and Guilliman, are perpetuals, but not all in the same way. (I do think Horus is properly dead, though. Special circumstance.)

I always wondered if one of them did potentially the most un-40k (or 30k) thing possible. Quit. Got tired of killing during the great crusade, realized what the Imperium was, and just went up to his dad and quit. The big E would probably be livid that his custom built super soldier chose pacifism.

I like the idea that at least one of the two lost Primarchs discovered something/gained knowledge that put the Emperor’s grand plan in danger. We know through Malcador that the Emperor planned for some of the Primarchs to turn against the Imperium but what if one learned of this plan and the Great War against Chaos. Maybe they learned of a different path for humanity that ran in opposition to the Emperor’s more extreme views? What if one of the forgotten Primarchs was the real threat to the Imperium and Horus was just a necessary evil? That would be someone you’d want rid of with no memory remaining.

Great video. I also like the idea that one of the lost legions/primarchs was, in some way, ideologically opposed to the GC as well as potentially having different 'methodologies' for pursuing it. Purged for not being xenocidal enough seems like a very grimdark explanation

I personally think the two Legions were sent to deal with the Rangdan, and either one of them didn't want to commit Genocide or one of the Legions (presumably the Purged) may have fought FOR the Rangdan - seems like something that would threaten the 'ideals behind the Great Crusade'. Imagine if regular Human's heard about an entire Legion rising up for some Xenos.

when GW finally cave and present what happened it will be a disappointment. Let lost legions be lost. Having the space sharks probably be raven guards instead of their "void father" possibly being one of the lost primarchs was a bad call and i dont see the reveal of one of possibly both lost primarchs going any better.

The emperor had the ability to obscure peoples memories too, as he did with the Khan, Horus and the Lion. I wonder if whatever happened was one of those situations, where the emperor wiped people's minds. I think you have really good theories on what might've happened though. Makes me think about what if it was kinda like Fulgrim, except with a xenos influence? The opportunity for genestealer-like-cults within a legion would certainly warrant cleansing. Would also make a really cool army :)

Love the theory that the "idea" of the rangdan could be dangerous. Would add sense to the mindwipe of the primarchs, very eldritch horror i dig it.

I like the idea of the records being purged of the first time a primarch is killed. Especially with the death being due to a xenos and no something of the Emperors own making like the traitors. So early all the idea that the emperor and his creations weren't perfect and unbeatable could have destroyed the imperium before it started. It might not be the most compelling reason but it would make the most sense. Then on the other side, a mind virus that literally has power based on knowing about it is the perfect level of scifi existential dread though it kinda clashes with Chaos to me. Ultimately I really like the lost legions just being lost. No explanation, no records, just hushed rumors and half remembered guesses. I like things being unexplained because any explanation will never satisfy everyone more than their imagination

I've always held that because the lost legions were re-distrubuted to the Ultramarines and Imperial Fists, it might be possible to extrapolate details from them by looking at their successor chapters in the 2nd founding. I wonder if one of the lost primarchs was a blank

I've only just started getting into Warhammer over the past couple of months, and these videos have been brilliant! I look forward to every new video!

This was very comprehensive and well done. I don't understand the impulse everyone has when they say that we should never know. There is good storytelling potential with these two, and if it's handled well could make for some really excellent reading.

Your videos on the lore of the Horus heresy has led me to read multiple novels from the black library. Thank you so much for making quality content.

I've been doing a lot of thinking and a lot of writing around these two legions and my personal interpretation of what could have happened to them. This video is an amazing resource, thank you.

The lost Primarchs themselves might even be responsible for their records being erased and then disappeared beyond the galactic rim. At one point in the 90's it was suggested that Sigmar was one of the lost primarchs and the warhammer world being somewhere in the 40k universe. This was abandoned. Still it would be awesome to have Stormcast eternals converted to marines and return to the 40k universe as a lost legion.

I like the idea that Trazyn has at least one of them and the imperium didn't want to admit any kind of defeat so just removed all record of them, very 1984.

You always have to ponder what the lost primarchs did considering the actions committed on the regular by angron and the world eaters and Conrad curz and night lords During the great crusade again on the regular

I like to imagine that one of the lost Primarchs and their legion were blanks/pariahs and the reason all records of them were scrubbed was due to the fact the Emperor wanted this legion to fight the forces of chaos in secret due to the fact to fight chaos you would be acknowledging the forces of chaos which would power the chaos gods so no knowledge of the warp or those fighting it means no direct actions that would power the chaos gods. If the webway project was successful then humans wouldn’t need to relay on warp to travel and there would be a legion of blanks ready to fight the horrors that may leak from the warp. Thank you for reading and sorry if what I said sounded like utter nonsense.

I really like your idea with the Rangda I also think one of the biggest missed opportunities of the Heresy is that Black Library didn’t double down on Russ as the Emperor’s executioner. I love the idea of him being known as having executed the 2nd and 11th (for whatever reason) and the knowledge that Russ is the knife at the back of the other Primarchs makes him a shunned and mistrusted figure. Maybe he doesn’t like his role and privately hates the Emperor for putting it on him but he’s too proud to show the envy he has for his brothers’ fraternity In that alternate reality it should be a big deal if Word is received that Russ is coming to your homeworld and, far from almost being laughed at when the Wolves arrive on Macragge to watch Guilliman, there should be a real sense of threat there

I really want at least one of the lost primarchs to have been just a decent and principled human being who opposed the very idea of the Imperium. Maybe they were even raised in a stable and functional mixed human-alien society like the Interrex and refused to be part in blanket genocide of non-humans.

I had the Idea the Eperor might has seen the shadow of the Warp by the Tyranids from a far as the powerfull Psyker that he is. And as a response he has send a entire Legion to investigate and battle the tyranids in the Void.

Great video Ian, long time viewer from Australia here. Just a quick heads up, Rome lost more than 2 legions at Teutoberg Forest. The 17th, 18th and 19th Legions were lost under the command of Varus. The 9th Legion also disappeared while stationed in Britain. As a History Teacher I had to let you know lol. Keep up the great videos, I look forward to your Tale of 4 Gamers Horus Heresy Edition 😁

Maybe the Rangdan wars were so bad that a lost Primarch had to disregard imperial sanctions on outlawed technology, and the war was finally won thanks to some super-weapon from the Dark-ages. With the success from whichh having the potential change the way the crusade was operated, leading to an internal fued with Mars. If the Imperium and Mars had a falling-out, that could definitely destroy the great crusade…..

I still respect the fact that you kept saying HER in the other one. Cracked me up and I loved it.

Ian, I've been obsessed with reading 40k books for around 3 years now and I've read maybe 100 books so far if not more. Been thinking about starting a channel about them and 40k lore and I think your excellent consistency and quality will be the final inspiration needed to push this over the line. Many thanks.

Something I think people keep overlooking or failing to understand is that the Crusade Imperium and post-Heresy Imperium are two separate things. The fact that the 2nd and 11th were redacted while the 9 traitor legions weren’t doesn’t really require what the 2/11 did to be “worse” than heresy. It simply means whatever they did happened in an imperium that wanted and was able to suppress knowledge of them. Keep in mind, while the post-Heresy Imperium is a fascist state open to thought control, its religious nature requires the traitors as the “other” that justifies all abuse and violence. It’d go against post-heresy imperial needs to suppress knowledge of the traitors, just as the crusade Imperium’s obsession with unity would want to suppress any knowledge of rebellion (or heighten the natural intimidation base humans experience towards the Marines with knowledge the Marines are capable of turning on them).

Here's some recent editions to the lore which may prove interesting on the topic of the Lost Primarchs [Dawn of Fire: Wolftime]: " ‘There is division among the Space Wolves regarding the Primaris reinforcements,’ he told the tribune. ‘However, I think the harder Guilliman pushes Grimnar, the more the Great Wolf will resist. The Chief Librarian, Njal Stormcaller, seemed quite amenable and I have established a relationship with him. He may be able to exert more pressure on Grimnar.’ ‘No, you are mistaken. If Logan Grimnar feels betrayed from his own ranks he will react very poorly. Guilliman is waiting for any provocation that would allow him to respond more forcefully, but we should ensure he is not presented with any.’ ‘Speculation!’ said Vychellan. ‘If Guilliman was to turn on the Emperor then the Space Wolves would be one of his first opponents. The history of the Ten Thousand with the Eleventh Legion is a reminder of that. Why would Guilliman be so keen to arm and expand such an obstacle to his ambition?’ " [Alpharius: Head of the Hydra]: "I said nothing. Russ had not listed himself in his speech. There was little doubt what his role was, at least to anyone who had seen the Wolves fight. Russ has a fury in battle that is a near match for Angron’s, but he possesses a tighter focus. The Wolf King is our father’s executioner. I suspect at least one of my departed brothers could have attested to that fact, although I have absolutely no evidence to suggest that is the case. Call it a feeling, if you will." And if we reconcile Russ's statement in Wolf King with what we know from Dorn and Malcador's conversation, it's quite possible that Russ also had his memory wiped of the specifics of the Lost Primarchs.

There was an episode (137) of the Cast Dice podcast where Rick Priestley talks about the "unexplained" corners of the 40k setting and made a direct comparison between the "lost" legions and the Roman legions in the Teutoborg forest. He hinted that the legions didn't necessarily turn renegade or traitor but that something so awful happened to them the Imperium refused to ever acknowledge what it was.

The brain parasite theory puts me in the mind of "The Hive" from Dark Skies, whole legions lost to such a creature but maintaing their skills and knowledge would be a cool setting!

I really enjoyed this dive into what's known about these two, and had fun pausing and reading the passages. Thanks for making these videos, I've rewatched the others a bunch, they're just so enjoyable to listen to.

Since I'm dead-set on the Rainbow Warriors, that's my story for them. The majority of the II Legion, the Rainbow Warriors, fought in the Rangda campaign. Their Primarch, having ruled over a world made prosperous through trade with Xenos, begins to become disillusioned with the Imperium as they struggle against the more superior society of the Rangda. After much of the legion is destroyed in battle, the Primarch and his most trusted troops desert the battlefield and disappear into the galaxy. The remaining forces of the Rainbow Warriors are merged into the Ultramarines and all but their name are scrubbed away. Those that disappeared are rumored to mysteriously return in battles when all seems lost, only to disappear when the battle is won (i.e. The Legion of the Damned).

My head canon is that both lost primarcs have rejected the Emperor when they met him and were utterly destroyed for it.

I have a theory! Many people have said that if the emperor died, he'd turn into a chaos god, possibly of order. But all of the gods have an opposite, so shouldnt he have one as well? Que malice, remember him? Chaos god of anarchy... and his holy number is 11.

Great video Ian, I’ve been leaning into this theory for a while ever since BL started giving us lore at how power the Rangda were - I also believe it would have been the DA who purged them! In the lion novel the lion says that his legion are the “sanction” and they would do the acts the space wolves honour would allow them too

There's a line in prospero burns where mortarion warns magnus about what he's doing at the council of nikea where this has happened before in regards to the missing legions

They refused to fight. They did not turn on their brothers, but picture a primarch refusing to fight. Seeing the path before them and refusing to walk it. It would destroy morale and bring questions that the Emperor could ill afford. One or more of the sons of the emperor who refused to destroy or slaughter those who refused to bend a knee.

Something I would consider is that the lost legions were did not necessarily do something worse than Horus, but that it could have been something easier to cover up and redact than half the remaining legions turning traitor and crippling the emperor and hobling the Imperium, later sparking off the long war.

I always used to like the theory that one of the lost Primarch's was the Emperor of the human armies in warhammer fantasy.

I like to think that the two lost primarchs were "just a couple of nice guys, you know?" Whatever ruthless and deeply antisocial militaristic personality trait the Emperor had tried to breed into them had catastrophically backfired, and they were just a couple of kind, generous, thoughtful individuals who liked to do good deeds in their community and always remembered everyone's birthday. This wasn't truly spotted until both their chapters were at full strength, so there were now over two thousand big clanking twats in power-armour who did things like organise bake sales to raise money for the local stray cyber-mastiffs' home, and helped little old ladies cross the dark pitiless voids of space to meet their friend Mavis for afternoon tea. When it was finally identified, following a particularly disastrous campaign against the Slann, where the two chapters sat down with the Xenos scum,, had a good old chinwag, discovered they had a lot in common, and agreed to settle what differences remained via the Slann's ancient custom of Semi-Naked Space Volley Ball, in which a draw was declared and, unforgivably, no-one died, so everyone got ice cream and exchanged numbers so they could hang out more often. After the Emperor heard of this and had finished facepalming, he decided the best course of action was to just pretend the two chapters had never existed, and so ordered them to go on an eternal crusade (an ongoing voyage of discovery, if you will) with their new friends, the Slann, to seek out and butcher new lifeforms and new civilisations, to boldly go where no man had conquered via horrific scorched earth tactics and appalling and entirely unnecessary casualties before. Which of course they did, but without all the ridiculous and completely unfriendly slaughter and mayhem. The Emperor dubbed them his Adeptus Puer Explorates (or "boy scouts"), and, after they'd got far enough away, he purged all the records of them ever existing and told any witnesses that if they mentioned it ever again, it would be a very bad day for them indeed, and hoped like all hell that that would be the end of it. Which it was. To an extent. Every year, he still receives a card on his Birthday and on Father's Day, as well as the occasional postcard detailing all the nice aliens his loyal Explorates have befriended, often with pictures of them doing wholesome things together like having picnics, going to water parks, enjoying space donkey rides, etc. He never writes back, but that never stops them from remembering him on his special days.

FINALLY! All of the information about them, together in one place, and with no dumb speculation! Can't thank you enough.

I love and respect all the time and effort you put into your videos A.I. Most fans go nuts during these discussions asking for proof every 5 seconds with something they don't agree with. But here, its laid out in such a clear cut and to the point format that theres not much of that to be had. Good stuff.

Your most fascinating and well constructed video to date. Very impressive levels of analysis that take a lot of hard to find disparate threads and weave a captivating narrative.

Someday I will understand why did you leave Alpharius words about the Wolves out of this video... "I said nothing. Russ had not listed himself in his speech. There was little doubt what his role was, at least to anyone who had seen the Wolves fight. Russ has a fury in battle that is a near match for Angron’s, but he possesses a tighter focus. The Wolf King is our father’s executioner. I suspect at least one of my departed brothers could have attested to that fact, although I have absolutely no evidence to suggest that is the case. Call it a feeling, if you will."

I believe these two Primarchs found out of the existence of the Chaos Gods, and the deal the Emperor made with Chaos leading to the creation of the 20 Sons, and were going to reveal these to their Brothers.

I love this mystery, and I hope it will never be fully revealed. Just like you I will always look for new hints with every novel I read, it's so much fun!

Excellent deep dive! I've been thinking about these two legions lately, and tying them back to the Rangdan situation would make a lot of sense.

Great video. Really well explained and interesting. Thanks for taking the time to share and produce.

You've got such good in-depth lore content, you deserve more subscribers.

This is I think the most in-depth and well thought out video I' e seen on this subject, and I learnt some new stuff. Well done!

In Lion El’Jonsons primarch novel it is stated that while The Space Wolves are The Emperors brandished sword it was The Dark Angels who brought his true sanctions is secret. And that The Dark Angels posses weapons capable of erasing theirs victims from even the wielders memory. I think it is possible that the “Purged” were destroyed by the DA with such weapons.

I like the idea that one is "unfound" and the other is "expunged". Like one was destroyed, presumably by Russ or Angron or someone, but the other one is just gone, D.B Cooper style.

I think they need to explore the lost legions. Once the siege of terra is wrapped up in novel form, the earlier great crusade would be fantastic to see fleshed out. I'd love to see more of some of the primarchs before they fell to chaos (or were enlightened, depending who you ask), or perhaps pre primarch reunification legions. There are over 200 years of Great Crusade history that hasn't been explored in that much depth before the Horus Heresy novel series begins. I don't want just to see the II and XI legions revealed for the sake of filling in that gap in 30k lore, I think it's necessary to do justice to the Great Crusade; or at least the first 150 or so years of it while they were still around. To try to cover it while awkwardly avoiding direct mention by name of the lost legions would be a mistake. The writers from Black Library have done a great job of doing justice to the Horus Heresy, I'm sure they can do justice to the lost legions too. Just imagine the twist if book 1 is a hypothetical Great Crusade novel series went a good few chapters without making it clear what legion the Astartes characters you are following are, dropping occasional hints until a sudden reveal that the characters are actually from the [ REDACTED ]. Perhaps the new hint regarding Subject XI could indicate that Black Library's writers have given the subject more thought. I hope so. They don't even need to necessarily explore their fate immediately

My fancanon is that one primarch grew up on a world where different xenos and humans lived mostly peacefully amongst each other, and so when Astartes came they most likely exterminated them: The primarch begrudgingly (or with inner guilt) accepted The Emperor's call to join him, but eventually he disagreed with the genociding of every single non-human race. How? Idk: Maybe he just gave up and surrendered, maybe he tried to leave. And as for the second primarch: I'm guessing they had to have had a REALLY bad genetic flaw, perhaps it was so inefficient for the legion to recruit and keep astartes due to defects that they were 'purged' in pity of their failure.

This is now the definitive RU-vid video on this subject. Glad your channel is growing ArbitorIan, these Lore AND Hobby retrospective videos are so much better than those 3 hour low effort google image search slideshows. I think even the idea of a Legion being critically damaged early in the Crusade might be too huge a PR disaster to take, there are plenty of advanced human civilisations that came into the fold so maybe if they knew the Legions weren't unbeatable they wouldn't have have signed up. So the simple boring explanation is probably the best. Also iirc in the first Black Book it is mentioned that the Storm Warriors were purged by the War Hounds, i don't think it was just because of a betrayal (or a test of Astartes power) but because the Storm Warriors were living embodiments of how low humanity had fallen. Also maybe at least one of the Primarchs was just utterly incompetent and the Emperor had to make a heart-breaking choice of treating him like any other negligent commander which presumably, given the setting, meant capital punishment. Perhaps the Emperor didn't want a vulnerable moment remembered, or more grimly; he didn't want his reluctance to take the sanction remembered, to keep his other sons in line.

Love your work. Bringing lit analysis to 40K lore is such a fun and informative perspective on the game and the fiction around it. 👍🏾

Awesome video. Well made. Really like that they don't answer this question. Keep up the good work.

I’ve been waiting for this video ever since you started the legion series! :D

Talking about not one, but two lost legions is some Lamanters level Valor Ian ;)

I have a hunch that something like 'the beast' from Homeworld Emergence literally assimilated one of the missing primarchs into itself, hence why he was lost - not dead, not chaos corrupted, but purged.

I believe the idea that they were meant as a way for people to make up their own legions has been debunked, didn't one of the original writers say it was simply to create an air of mystery around the great crusade? I suppose it might still end up inspiring homebrewed legions, but that wasn't the original intent.

Damn you're good! Just found you recently and heck your my new favorite! Great narration, no nonsense! Good for someone that just wants the info about the lore without the fuss. Big SUB

Ian, this series of videos is a real highlight of my week. I follow a bunch of lore based RU-vidrs but you cut to the chase and don’t fart around without leaving me feel short changed. Your passion shines through and makes it compelling to listen to. I’ve recently returned to the actual hobby proper after a near 25 year absence (I still enjoyed video games and black library books but wasn’t actively painting and modelling) and channels like yours are responsible for me returning to it proper. Thanks mate.

I would love a video on Cypher being Omegon or Alpharius. Excellent video as always

Incredible work. I love all of your lore videos but this one stands above the rest.

I get hung up on the distinction between the II Legion being "Forgotten" and the XI Legion being "Purged". I feel like the the theory of the Second Primarch being killed or mind-controlled works for a legion that is considered "Forgotten". They have their name stricken from the record to preserve moral, which is logical during a crusde. But being "Purged" indicates some sort of malice or retribution. For the eleventh, my personal theory is that they committed an act in good faith which the Emperor perceived as a crime or threat. Perhaps they delved deep into genetic manipulation themselves to make their legion stronger. (Perhaps in response to the strength of the Rangda) This would constitute a direct threat to the Emperor's total control and could be enough to have the Primarch jailed and erased from memory. I am particularly fond of the theory the Eleventh doing something like engineering their own variant of Astartes because it opens up a great opportunity after the Indomitas crusade to throw another wrench in the imperial works. If the Eleventh was able to escape imprisonment it could start a fun new civil war over the use of Primaris Marines.

Arbitor Ian back at it again! Lovin the consistent upload sched of quality vids

I always preferred the view of the survivors being folded into other Legions as more solider rumour and little bit of jealousy at the success of the XIII and VII With 500 worlds/an entire Imperium to recruit from (and a firm grasp on the importance of logistics) it’s no wonder they grew as big as they did.

I like to think, in favor of making my own legions, that the Emperor just put them in his back pocket as a contingency plan hiding out or doing missions on the far fringes of the universe waiting to be recalled after a heresy scenario. The other primarchs not being allowed to know this are made to believe these things mentioned in the video. I would have liked that more than primaris marines coming out of Belisarius' back pocket.

There will never be any resolution to this beyond hints and speculation, it’s far to good the way it is, it just draws you in

I like to think that one of the Primarchs landed on a peaceful world with no humans, and was raised by Xenos. He was bad at the Great Crusade because he simply didn't want to fight, and kept trying to convince the Emperor to take a more peaceful path. So naturally he had to be killed off.

Loving your vids man. Great stuff and well done!

Love all the bits from the books that you put in here to see the whole picture

Thanks for putting in the effort to bring this video together, it's really interesting stuff! One character that's always interested me is the first chapter master of the Red Talons, Autek Mor, who's temperament didn't quite suit the Xth legion somehow and some thought that he wasn't from Ferrus Manus' gene lineage. I've always thought he must be a remnant warlord from a lost legion, because it wouldn't really make sense for him to be from an existing primarch's heritage and not be among that respective legion.

Just discovered your content. Your videos are really good and I'm looking forward to watching more of your lore videos! =)

So according to Rick Prestly, the lost legions were just a Roman reference, but the whole fanmade Legions thing is just popular headcanon.

Wasn't it the Rangdan Xenocides that are also the first official appearance of the the Alpha Legion as a whole? the appearance of the most mysterious extant legion at the time of the disappearance of the missing legions dosn't feel like a coincidence.

The idea that the lost legions found a way to just solve problems without xenocide and war is mentioned below; but taking that idea and your video about Solving The Imperium Problem together, it makes think an awesome way for GW to introduce a less evil alternative human faction would be to have the 2nd or 11th turn up and be all "what? No, we get on just fine with all these aliens, look how propsperous all our worlds are when we don't spend all our money on bullets!" But, as they're still Space Marines, being able to defend their worlds when the Imperium tries to do something about it. Which, granted, is basically what my 3rd ed army was - a mix of IG, Marines, and Eldar that all managed to live together mostly peacefully. So perhaps this is just me wanting to import some Trek into 40K. :)

This is 5 million times better then any of the five billion videos 40k theories has done on the subject or any other youtuber really.

Love the analysis, love the insight, can even accept the Rangdon hypothesis on the basis of what you presented; well done.

I keep returning to how they for definite have a company folder regarding what the emperor actually is and what he looks like and a separate public design bible for him when this subject comes up.

1. Look through the list of Ultramarines and Imperial Fists' successor chapters. 2. Identify the whackadoodle/weirdo ones. 3. Assemble a possible reconstructive picture of the lost legions based on what you've found?

For all Warhammer lore has gone wibbly wobbly over the years, I'm glad this is one thing GW has never really changed. Only given hints and little clues, while never at all giving us anything concrete. I know there are some in the fandom who hold to the idea that one of the lost Primarchs was a woman. But that is so full of holes I can't even think straight.

I always had a dumb thought the one of the Lost crossbreed with Xenos and was raising half Primach half Xenos children thinking that this is how we save humanity.