The THOUSAND SONS Legion in the HORUS HERESY | Legion XV: Origins | Warhammer Lore 

His optimism blinded his arrogance and that arrogance blinded Magnus

I don’t think his optimism was a flaw, it was this utter conviction that he could bring his vision of the Imperium to life with his power without ever wondering where it was coming from

@@captainparty I think both points are true. You have to give him credit though. His whole mission was to become less ignorant. He tried to understand the warp and his power as best he could.

@@Frosty-kz4om Exactly, while I don't agree with the "Magnus did nothing wrong" argument, his well intended motives paved a path literally and figuratively to hell

@@JIMT412 "magnus had nothing but good intentions." Would maybe fit better then?

It's real funny what a certain faintly norse themed chapter was about to do to him and his legion.

That's why Leman Russ hates him. Magnus was muscling in on his theme.

There’s a joke in there somewhere about the difference being Odin actually got wiser, but I like my space Egyptian tragic samaritans too much to directly make it.

Nah, it was a reference to Horus, who lost his eye to save his family... Though of course both are human myths so there's echoes of both.

@@bodricthered But Magnus sacrificed his eye in return for knowledge to save his gene-sons, and Odin also sacrificed his eye for knowledge, so I think that's a fair comparison to make.

Neat man! Have fun!

How do you paint the metalic red

I’m painting it as Dark Angels who are actually Sons of the Hydra

I’m going to rattle-can basecoat with Retributor Armor, then do a zenithal with a lighter/brighter gold. Then I’m going to do 2 thin coats of Angron Red Clear over that. Paint the trim & undersuit by hand. Gloss varnish then oil wash. Clean up then satin varnish again. Paint the base Rhinox Hide, then hit the base with crackle paint. Finish off with a sandy color & desert grass tufts.

Same, this series has tempted me into getting back into the hobby, having dropped off around ‘96

Same. I was an Eldar player in 2nd Ed, and would love for Ian to look at Eldar lore one day (I'm sure he's got a huge queue of ideas waiting to happen)

Same!

Agreed. It's the same thing for any Shakespearean character, hubris or over commitment. And oddly enough, a lot of Star Trek TNG villain-species. The ideal/belief is actually laudable, but when taken to an absolute, it becomes evil

What makes it even more tragic is that the Emperor's judgment was even more flawed than Magnus'. There was no one for Magnus to talk to; no one that would listen to what he had to say.

@@Nukefandango Yeah, in hindsight the Emperor really should have told the Primarchs about the true nature of the Warp and the need for the Imperial Truth. Could have potentially kept some combination of the Word Bearers, Sons of Horus, and Thousand Sons loyal. Maybe even the Death Guard, Iron Warriors, and Emperor's Children. (World Eaters and Night Lords seem doomed to rebel with or without the Heresy.)

I would say Fulgrim does compare because it wasn't just the Laer blade. Ultimately, it was Fulgrim's own warped desires for perfection and becoming obsessive over it that allowed Slaanesh to easily guide him further down

Alpharius had hubris in his own way; he thought he was smarter and cleverer than everyone else in the room. He over estimated his own abilities and underestimated his brothers.

The woofs would have lost without the Sisters and cockstodes. Just goes to show how tragic the loss of the Thousand Sons really is.

Phosis T'Kar, one of the captains, solo-tanked an Aeldari titan laser to protect Magnus and lived (barely). So yeah, these guys were seriously strong.

I genuinely cannot emphasize how wildly OP 30K Thousand Sons were. Psykers in general are insane, an entire legion of Psyker Astartes is broken.

@@brosno5252 as was represented in 1st edition Horus heresy

The inquisition would like to know your location

If I recall, ADB stated that it is confirmed that the Ravens are not Thousand Son’s successors, despite all the hints.

@ParalyzedTortoise I actually thought it was confirmed to the contrary? I was led to believe they were certified successors of TS's, and that they actively try to hide it? Or was that idle conversation I picked up and presumed it was fact?

It's been confirmed that the Empire uses traitor geneseed, so maybe

mortarion was also forced into chaos and so did perturabo if you squint a little.

@@SirZeu Just a little.

Tzeentch, "Just as planned."

My opinion on this has always been 40k lore is wide enough to make it work. Your chapter can be a "lost expeditionary force" trapped in a warp storm or siphoned off by Tzeestch to permit the corruption of Magnus or a splinter faction pulled out of time by Chaos or a group entombed in stasis vaults and rescued by another loyal chapter. Most groups I know that play permit this kind of thing, so long as you don't go too crazy. EDIT: If you're playing in the Horus Heresy era, my understanding is you can play as any traitor legion pre-traitor FWIW.

there's a pretty popular fan theory that grey knights use 15th legion gene seed, being in effect a loyalist thousand sons successor chapter. I doubt anyone would mind if you gave grey knights a more obviously ksons paint job, or just ran a ksons force with grey knight rules

this is correct! you get to see the scene from Magnus's perspectives in "A Thousand Sons" and from the Emperor's perspective in "Master of Mankind." ATS: "None had ever seen such a dreadful apparition, the true heart of a being so mighty that it could only beat while encased in super-engineered flesh. The Emperor alone recognised this rapturous angel, and his heart broke to see it. “Magnus,” he said. “Father,” replied Magnus. Their minds met, and in that moment of frozen connection the galaxy changed forever." MoM: "His father stood at the heart of the storm, looking up at him, looking up at the burning herald of humanity's end. Every other soul in the chamber - the menials and workers and scientists not already aflame or fleeing the cascade of klaxons - stared up with their king. The fiery form was the last thing many of them saw, for its violent luminescence stole their sight forever after. The Emperor looked upon him - His son, His creation - with eyes that had seen countless suns and civilizations die. 'Magnus,' He said. 'Father,' breathed the avatar of burning misery in reply."

He doesn’t defeat him

But Magnus is the biggest blabber mouth ever. A huge liability due to his hubris and misuse of his powers

Exactly. 40k. This is about 30k.

@@jimmysmith2249 wasn't expecting a deepdive for the exact reason you mention. I'm merely saying I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned at all.

No! It began WEIRDLY

Yeah, it’s turning into one of those “well known” secrets.

Well if arhriman is to be believed and azharaya vidya was apart of the thousand sons legion and maybe he did some shenanigans to save his brothers

It's just one of those rumours that the fans pass around for so long people think it's true. I mean, MAAAAYYBBEE but there's no real evidence other than them being a bit more psychic than normal.

@@ArbitorIan I'd love to hear your theory Ian! I've heard the argument that the White Scars might be their gene chapter as well

So do them anyways. The Thousand Sons are always few, so more are always welcome.

@@jimmysmith2249 I might! Just need to think of a good backstory for them to stay loyal, don't want to do the same Magnus/Guard of the Crimson King army the guy who picked them first is doing.

I can't remember exactly, but I think Russ had realised he had been played by the end of the horus heresy series of books, possibly in Wolfsbane? and even more sketchy memory than that, the shards of Magnus that Ahriman talks to in the Ahriman books had knowledge of this happening, but that's set closer to the 'now' timeline of 40k.

I mean, he definitely did SOME things wrong!

Great crusade : let's round it up to 100k marines for each of the twenty legions, so 2 millions 41st Millenium : rumored to be a thousand chapters, even if we consider them optimisticaly at full strength, that would give only one million astartes.

This is from a combination of the old Horus Heresy Black Books and the Black Library novel series

The Black Legion has little, if anything, to do with Horus, the Sons of Horus are not the same legion as the one Abaddon forged after the Heresy. They see Horus as a fool whose failure is shameful, they follow Abaddon.

His last name was Lupercal after the cave in Rome.

@@pmc1727 he’s literally named Horus Heresy cmon

I get you are trying to troll… enjoy your day.

I cant help but think that this is a joke statement, because magnus did the most wrong out of any primarch. Its literally his fault that the state of 40k is as terrible as it is.

Because he was TRICKED! And after they went to live in the Eye of Terror it came back.