The loss of Ferrus and his plans for a peaceful future for his legion post-Crusade is a deeply underappreciated tragedy. In the same way that Perturabo dreamt of crafting beautiful cities and art, Ferrus dreamt of helping his sons turn swords into plowshares and learning to live as both the guardian angels and as simple men of the Imperium. What a shame to see what's become of them since.
"...and as simple men of the Imperium." Well, the Emperor never would have permitted that. The Astartes were never meant to live among the civilian populations. Only to be instruments of war, dissolved and destroyed once the conquest of the galaxy was completed. The Emperor's intent was to have the Primarchs and maybe select bodyguards as regents around the galaxy, but for all military and civilian life to be governed by humans. Regular humans.
@@saltedllama2759 that's a fair assessment given a lot of past lore, but I don't know that anything like that was ever actually set in stone by the Emperor-- whether because he was entirely focused on the Crusades and the Webway project, or because he knew the Horus Heresy would make any plans he had for a soon-to-come peacetime irrelevant and impossible to plan for. While I do think the Astartes would never (and should never) have been allowed to become administrators or governors in the Imperium post-Crusades, as it was always meant to be run by mortal men and women, I do think that he would've allowed many Astartes to live if their Primarchs and they demonstrated that they could serve as peacekeepers, superhuman workers, and defenders without needing to claim authority. Some rumors of plans to wipe out most of the Astartes were probably true, but especially with the love many Primarchs had for their sons I can't imagine the Emperor thinking that he could simply have the majority of them culled without serious risk of rebellion and devastating uprisings. While that was more possible with the Thunder Warriors, given their many flaws and how small of an area their forces were kept to (a single planet still in the grips of a dark age), no such culling could have worked with the Legions. Perhaps throwing them against enemies to whittle down their numbers, and then simply establishing that as the new maximum, but even that would be risky. It's mostly speculation, obviously, since we're never going to see how things would've turned out, but I always figured the most likely outcome would have been that post-Crusades the lack of ongoing major campaigns would have meant that most Legions would simply not receive new troops, and that the lack of need for Astartes in the inevitable minor disputes and conflicts would mean that they could be allowed to effectively shrink to a fraction of their numbers without greatly impacting the stability of the Imperium. But then again, the writing on how wise and human the Big E actually is has veered wildly from one side of the spectrum to the other over the years, so maybe he really was planning to simply try and purge the vast majority of Astartes, regardless of the protestations of their Primarchs and the Legions themselves. Tough to say with the old Emperor.
@@saltedllama2759 this is true, in the imperial palace he has a fresco of every human soilder from cave man to gaurdsman, nowhere on the art piece is there a space marine
@@saltedllama2759 This is interesting view since guilliman trained his sons to prepapre for roles post war as advisors and necessary rulers and were used as example what Spacemarine legion should be like. Suggesting that the Primarchs and their legions would server a purpose after the crusades completion.
White Scars and Salamanders aside, The Iron Hands are very underrated and looked over. Edit: I know the The Raven Guard get overlooked too. I didn't say they were not!
But Jagathai and Vulcan got to shine many times in the Horus Heresy novels. Ferrus died so quickly, without a crowning moment of awesome all the Iron Hands are known for is being cogboy wannabees. GW should have kept him around a little longer so he could have had a few awesome novels. All the lesser known Primarchs had at least a few good novels to build them up. Ferrus got zilch.
Such a neglected Chapter. Wish that GW would show them some more attention because they are actually pretty dope. Most batshit crazy loyalists you'll find, except perhaps the Death Company. And that's just a few individuals where the entire chapter of Iron Hands are nuts (and bolts ;-) )
With the upcoming Dark Mech models, I would love a story about one of the dark mechs having one of the list silver hands of Ferrus, and the Iron Hands hunting them down for it.
No, DON'T make that quote something the Emperor said. Make it something Ferrus came to on his own. If the quote is the Emperors, and Ferrus is just parroting it, it diminishes Ferrus even more and this guy needs all the help he can get.
This quote could have been derived from the Emperor talking about what it means to be human, perhaps after one of the primarchs subtly touches that during a debate where all of them participate
This episode only strengthens my admiration for Ferris Manus. Loyal to his Father, and humanity. He embraced the flesh over machine. He felt Fulgrim's betrayal as strongly as the Emperor would have. I do hope I will be able to read even more lore on the 10th Legion Primarch.
There’s actually an interesting story about Ferrus and what’s become of the Iron Hands. It’s called ‘A Lesson In Iron.’ It’s only about 20 pages and it’s basically Ferrus and his sons traveling and due to warp spaghetti and time travel fuckery come across a 40K era ship full of Iron Hands. Then it goes from there and it’s a pretty interesting take. Quick read but insightful none the less.
Ferrus to himself:Why do my sons not trust there flesh? Ferrus screaming at the top of his lungs as he and his sons charge into battle: “THE FLESH IS WEAKKKK!!!”
Black Library has sucked so much when it comes to portraying the Iron Hands. It's a little better in 40K, 30K is just garbage and I think less of the writing team for not doing them justice. What people forget about Ferrus Manus is he was one of the best Primarchs. Horus was pissed at Fulgrim because his Heresy depended on being able to make the Iron Hands an enemy or an ally, he was one of the first Primarchs founded and was an actual legitimate confidant for him along the lines of Magnus or Horus, Guilliman lists him as one of his dauntless few, when Istvaan V went down his brothers essentially elected him as acting commander, putting him on paper in charge of 7 legions, in practice at command of likely the single largest space marine deployment up until then and not just that, although he did die early on, his actions, not the actions of the Raven Guard or the Salamanders, made sure that loyalists could leave Istvaan V and ensure the continuation by legion remenants as a serious threat to the traitors and not true ghosts of themselves. Ferrus Manus was a premier Primarch of a premier legion, Aaron Dembski Bowden can make a warband of Night Lords be likeable and sympathetic, yet they can't make Iron Hands be known for more than just their dad losing his head. Which is funny because Sanguinius dies fighting Horus in a brash assault and he was seen as a lovable hero, Ferrus Manus is the first loyalist to learn about chaos the hard way and it's all just played out as pointless
For someone who had a strong stance on the weakness of the flesh, it is surprising at how much Ferrus’s perception of this changed as time progressed. Maybe out of all the Primarch’s, Ferrus was wise enough to know the true corruption that came with the reliance on the mechanics he and his sons put on their flesh. For all the flak Ferrus gets on his short temper and rage, it is good to see that he is level headed (no pun intended) when it comes to his sons and the future he sees for them. If only we got to see this transpire if The Gorgon had survived. However, something tells me he would probably be too angry to consider it, as he would be hell bent on hunting down his traitorous brothers.
I like the Iron hands. After jumping from tau to necron to guard to Ultramarines, the iron hands are by far more captivating. They are tragic chapter, but chose fury instead of depression. They fail again and again but learn and constantly improve themselves. They are tough, and utterly unbreakable despite their loses, I love them for it
Another great video. Like I’ve said many times, the Iron Hands are such an interesting legion and Ferrus is one of my favourite Primarchs. He reminds me of a mix between Conan and Hercules.
Ferrus I think was one of the only primarchs who actually cared what happened after. In the way of he actually had plans for after he wasn't just gonna decide when he got there.
The Horus Heresy books should have started with the Great Crusade. Seeing how central Ferrus was as one of the "older brothers" would have made his death so much more meaningful. For almost 200 years he was at the forefront of the Crusade his death would have sent shockwaves through the entire galaxy
Not only were the early writings of the Heresy series which included Ferrus oversimplifying of his character, but his solo Primarch book was ultra disappointing. He's only in about 3 chapters of the book, and basically realizes that he has no business vying for position of the (rumored) Warmaster because he...only knows how to lead from the front of the thick of battle. So again, portrayed as a mindless monster of war.
GW should never have let Ferrus Manus die so quickly in the Horus Heresy. It has robbed them of the means to make the Iron Hands shine by giving them a cool primarch with his own moment of crowning awesome. Now they will forever be that chapter with a crazy fetish for chopping body parts off.
I've always had a fondness for the Iron Tenth, I don't know why maybe it's my love of underdogs but there's something both tragic and fitting that they la k the recognition of the other loyalists. (They didn't even get a dedicated novel in the heresy)
The Flesh is stronger than steel and iron, for the flesh is able to create. I may not be a loyal son of Gorgon, yet as a son of the Lion; I feel for my brothers and I yearn for them to embrace what flesh can do for them.
We need more early Great Crusade so we get more Ferrus as he is slept on by many. The Khan, Sanguinius, Russ, and Dorn have gained alot of cool lore through the Heresy and Seige.
Some see Angron as the most tragic character, I disagree. I think Ferrus is that most tragic character. He is violently dedicated to his father, has been fighting in the crusade for a long time, and yet his sons see his great personal faults and run the opposite direction from them. They see his irrational temper, and rightly assess its liability. Ferrus here in the text wants to help teach his sons a valuable lesson, yet his example speaks more loudly and clearly. They ACCEPT his heartlessness but not his fury. They see the path of bettering their father as controlling that wrathful anger, but are blind to the fault he recognizes, a fault they won't reject because they see it as a means to not fail where he did. THAT is tragic. Besides, Ferrus was a stubbed toe away from making out with Khorne at the drive-in. All the Iron Tenth did was to swing the pendulum in another direction. THAT is grim-dark.
as far as the legions and first found chapters go the iron hands have to be the most over looked alongside the white scars. sadly with the death of ferrus the legion and later chapter became pretty hard to do much with. emotionless super humans who replaces body parts to become even more robotic. remins me of the cyborg aligator from rick and morty, cold blooded creature mixed with the cold logic of a machine, not very interesting.
I hope they flesh the Iron Hands out. I've always found Ferrus and his legion absolutely tedious and one dimensional. They deserve some time in the light too. His emotions got them almost annihilated at Istvaan, logical they would seek to cut that part out
Ferrus is my favorite primarch partly cause Iron hands was the first 40k book i read, his death was the most tragic part of the heresy before it reached Terra.
As an answer to your final question it would not have been as important whether or not he removed his hands. It was the manner of his death and not the example of his hands hands that set off the permanence and if permanence and strength of this direction.
If my 1st thought was not the emperor but either the angel or the pretorian of terra. It seems a joint battle crying for a joint operation between those 2 legions to me made by their primarks
The models, the action and the tactics tend to dominate the hobby. But there is a lot of tragedy just beneath the surface. Sanguinius comes to mind immediately. But so does Angron. But Ferrus is one of the deeper ones too. There's irony beneath what the IH are. And they lost a great deal with the death of their primarch.
Really happy to see someone else taken away by the Neimeriel Scrolls. I created my very first fan-Chapter out of those few lines, and it remains to me one of the most interesting elements of Ferrus Manus' psychology and thus his Sons'. And how the Gorgon loves Mankind, despite his harsh and brutal behavior, how he view Man as perfect in its own imperfect way, and how his death led to his Sons rejecting their own humanity to become pure weapons, barely different from any of the monstrous Xenos danger out there, but for their loyalty to the Imperium.
OK so remember when Ferris mannis actually was summoned back by the emperor during the battle in the webway and he was at the forefront of the legion of the damned? I really hope they do something with that because losing Ferris mannis was a fucking hit he was a sick primarc he was awesome like they need to bring him back like as the prime arc of the legion of the damned and the legion of the damn needs to be all those iron hands and raven guard and salamanders that died that day cause they would be a freaking force to be reckoned with ARDR! Mate I'm just putting my 2 cents in that's it I'm waffling on like VALRAK!!! lol
I think one thing we cannot forget is that this quote shows that Ferrus was AWARE of the price they paid for their strength, not that he decided to go back. He says he want to remove this metal in an hypothetical future "when the war is finished" but in the meantime he's a man who knows what has to be done and who doesn't hesitate to pay the cost so he was ready to pay the price for their strength as long as it's useful. The tragedy for him is he knows the legion is loosing its soul but he would never do anything against it until the end of the war. This implies that with the Heresy and the end of hope of peace, Ferrus would probably have cancelled his plans to save his legion and himself but would have sacrificed themselves for the Imperium.
Alongside Guilliman probably he was one of the few who wanted something more for his children other than being cogs inside the war machine so is doubly sad that they ended going the exact opposite way, trying as hard as possible to become mindless hardware. The Iron Hands like pretty much every loyalist legion has legends that say their Primarch will return to lead them in the most trying hour of humanity, if he ever returns probably would find hard to resist the urge to beat some sense inside their heads, "This is the mystery of the flesh you see, is beating the crap out of you".
Something I struggle with though is this idea they had that somehow the fighting would eventually end. Didn’t they realize this is a fallacy?? Surely some did
While I do not advocate self harm and desire to promote positive mental health, I have to say that the iron hands self loathing and constant desire to mutilate themselves as a form of coping for their failure during the heresy and wanting to be better is something that really made me kin the faction and want to support them. That and I love tanks and mechs.
Wasn’t Medusa consumed by the great rift? The iron hands have become so obscure as a chapter no one bats a eye or makes mention of them loosing their home world.
If anything, it would have fractured his legion. They can't reattach limbs, how would they replace the augmetics? Were Ferrus' hands underneath the silver? How far down? Was it replaced? What if he ends up with nubs? He can decide to cripple himself but, I don't think his Legion would go along.
I think he said himself it just coated his arms / hands and hadn't replaced the flesh underneath it .. as to the first part well the marines that had bionics would die off and it wouldn't matter .. just the practise of replacing a hand would be stopped going forward ..
I''ll say it again...GW shot themselves in the foot when they killed the Primarch of the Legion with the most potential for Lore expansion in the 40K Imperium.
Thanks for the synopsis mate. U just brought this up in my mind that: Is safe to assume that Ferrus was shown the aftermath of the crusades and wars to unite mankind across the stars by the Emperor? Considering he was 1 of the first primarchs to have been found? And also because he sounded very certain and emphatic when he was talking about excising himself from the metal when all the fighting and wars had ended..... May Be He Knows How It All End..? Not in the sense of finality, but in that of circling around to complete storylines and may be leap into another where the EMPEROR OF MANKIND IS REBORN!!!!! 🤠
Who cares if he'd loses his head over the legion becoming a chapter? Restoring the legions would cause shockwaves throughout the Imperium, and almost all of it would be negative. While people are awed at Astartes, seeing them restored to legion strength would engender nothing but fear and hatred, throughout all Humanity, as their memories of the Heresy all came rushing back.
If there were ever a brother who had a close relationship with Russ I would imagine it to be Ferrus - both Barbarian Kings from Death Worlds who like to settle things with a punch up. Has anyone read anything about their relationship? I can imagine Russ inviting Ferrus to a wrestling match in a similar manner to his invite to Horus - but Ferrus would accept.
I mean to be honest, he was as he was written before until someone else came along and wrote something to give him depth. The lore is only as good as the next update or retcon.
