What most people miss about Rev 14:9-11 is that it ONLY refers to those who worship the beast, so it's not even a proof text that the wicked spend eternity in torment. The reason it ONLY refers to those who worship the beast is because it's a now judgment on those alive during the tribulation. It's a warning for what God is ABOUT to do to the wicked on the earth at that time. This is the shout and announcement for the 7th Trumpet which IS the 7 bowls of wrath about to be poured out of God's judgment at Christ's return. Notice it says they are tormented in the presence of the holy angels AND the lamb. Clearly God isn't going to condemn Jesus to spend eternity watching over the lost as they scream in torment. This is also in direct contrast to what 2 Thess 1:9 states, that the wicked will "pay the penalty of eternal DESTRUCTION, AWAY from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power." The lake of fire judgment isn't for another 1000 years, at the END of the Millennial reign. Note it also doesn't say they are TORMENTED forever and ever, but rather they SMOKE of their torment rises forever and ever. This is the exact same wording used in Rev 19 for the fate of Babylon. AGAIN, talking about its judgment HERE on THIS earth in THIS age. Finally, the phrase, forever and ever isn't even a translation of the actual Greek text. It's a gross paraphrase. The actual Greek text is eis ho aion ho aion, which directly translated would be "unto the age of the ages" No one expects that God is going to resurrect Babylon and restore it to the New Heaven and New Earth, in the Final and everlasting age, just so it can continue to smoke for all eternity. Hence, the direct translation of Unto the age of THE ages, fits perfectly and doesn't contradict ALLL the other scriptures that plainly teach the wicked will perish, burn up, be consumed, die, be destroyed, be ashes, be no more, etc. If you're going to paraphrase the Greek, AT LEAST make it agree with scripture, instead of directly contradicting it.
The thing is, a lot of traditionalists believe that hell is worse than Dante's inferno. They'll say that hell is worse than anything you can possibly imagine.
What is “eternal fire”? Is the “fire” of Sodom still burning? Or are the results “eternal?” “Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.” Jude 7 “Then shall the King say also unto them on the left hand, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire (eternal, aionian), prepared for the Devil and his angels.” Matthew 25:41
@@dorothypoole8908 I will do. Meanwhile, you must be the matrix cloned daughter of the brilliant Edward Fudge. You both teach the same thing. I miss Fudge. He was an excellent scholar. What's it like being the matrix cloned daughter of a heavyweight Bible champion like Fudge?
But the Bible says that God will restore the firtunes of Sodom. As such, the results will not be eternal. Moreover, "aionion" does not properly translate into "eternal". "Aionion" means "age-during". "Aidios" is the Greek word for "eternal".
Sean: Having just finished the 24 classes on “How we got the Bible,” was very informative. It is material I have studied for many years, and this fresh systematic perspective is highly recommended. With fifty tears of scholarship and mining God’s word, discovering new and exciting details is always anticipated with every turn of the page. I have two comments (1). It would have been beneficial for readers had you repeatedly mentioned, along with the effort to showcase translational bias, announcing that no serious damage has been achieved in diminishing the fundamental truths of the Gospel and our Christian doctrinal foundations. (2) Because your class on myths, “The Lost Suffer Eternal Torment in Hell,” offered the kind of ambiguity to reinforce the belief for Theocaratie Vitifer, Hell is not real and just a dream… is seriously problematic. I am saddened by such immature, selfish reasoning. The suffering of Christ for a dream in which people are saved from nothingness is preposterous. I am stunned by such an idea.
Scripture teaches that God's judgements are NOT eternal damnation. Mercy triumphs over judgment (James 2:13). God's judgements are "corrective" in nature. In the book of Isaiah God says that when His judgements come upon the people of this world, they will learn righteousness (Isaiah 26:9). Yes many people will be judged, but the end result of that Judgment is correction. There is no such thing as "Hell" in a properly translated Bible. Romans 6:23 tells us that the wages of sin is "death." Jesus didn't come to save us from an angry wrathful God that wants to burn us in a man invented place called Hell. Jesus came to save us from "death" by giving us "life" and leading us to a loving and merciful Father. And there's no such thing as annihilation, which would be "spiritual capital punishment," so all that is left is that God saves ALL of humanity as 1 Timothy 4:10 says and Colossians 1:15-20 and numerous other verses can attest to this. God is Sovereign and in full control. God wills that ALL mankind be saved (1 Tim. 2:4). And God gets what He wants.
Mankind won't be saved from nothingness, they will be saved from death. The wages of sin is DEATH (Romans 6:23), NOT eternal conscious torment. You don't know by now that the traditional view of hellfire is PAGAN? WOW JUST WOW
@@michaelj.frazee9043 what about where it speaks of Lazarus? Needing water for his tongue he was in such torments. And what about in John 3:36 it speaks of Gods wrath abiding on those who do not believe in his son.
@@TerriDanielle THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS I don't believe that it is a literal story and here are some of the reasons. 1. Would water that is mentioned in the parable, be taken into an eternal hell of fire? 2. Would someone be able to go into hell to give someone a taste or drink of water? 3. Do spirits who are supposedly living in an eternal hell have tongues that can taste water? 4. Are those who are residing forever in heaven able to see, talk, and travel to people who are residing in eternal hellfire?
@@TerriDanielle John 3:36 "The one habitually trusting (or: continuously going on confidently believing with loyalty) into the Son is now constantly holding and progressively having eonian life (life having the characteristics and qualities of the sphere of the Age; life of and for the ages; eon-lasting life; life whose source is the Age [of Messiah]). Yet the person now continuing being unpersuaded by the Son (or: presently being constantly incompliant, disobedient or disbelieving to the Son; being repeatedly stubborn toward the Son) will not be catching sight of (seeing; observing; perceiving) [this] life. To the contrary, God’s personal emotion and inherent fervor (teeming passion and swelling desire; mental bent and natural impulse; propensity and disposition; or: anger, wrath and indignation) is continuously remaining (is now habitually dwelling and abiding) upon him." They lose eonian life, NOT eternal life.
I know Sean Finnegan when i see him. Eternal torment doctrine insults the nature of the Most High. It takes time, sometimes decades, to understand, and it's very difficult to accept. But the doctrine of eternal torment is actually evil.
Wow! "The doctrine of eternal torment is actually evil." How actually evil is it for man, who by nature is a child of wrath, to reject the Son of God? How shall we escape if we neglect so Great Salvation? Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness, who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Isaiah 5 20
@@Europeangardens No man volunteered to be created. He had no say in it. Eternal life is a gift to those who acknowledge the Living God, and gain access to him through the Lord Jesus Christ, his son, our mediator. The Most High isn't about to eternally torture those who reject the gift of life, in some kind of not-life condition. Only those found in Christ Jesus receive immortality. Being kept alive forever, to be tortured, would also be immortality. Man is not immortal. Immortality is only given to believers, at the resurrection. Unbelievers are never promised immortality. They die, and stay dead forever.
@@texassmokingmonkey That's your view for now but no one will convince me of that. I was baptized with fire 20 years ago for rejecting the Living Christ. That fire was eternal damnation. I became one with Hell. Every since that day, I can see right through the lies and deception.... including the lie of Just believe "in" Jesus for salvation. That's a translation error and one that deceives many. The Greek word EIS has two different meanings. #1. Eis can mean "in" or #2. Eis can mean "into." The Recovery bible version corrects these. One needs to believe INTO Jesus and into Him Alone for salvation, for Life. Believing"in" Jesus doesn't give Life. Believing INTO Jesus gives Life.. Lean the weight of your entire existence into the Living Christ. In other words...Put your Trust into Jesus with the weight of your entire existence. Not holding anything back.
@@texassmokingmonkey Yes you are correct sir. You must be the son of Edward Fudge. He taught the same thing as you. I hear you brother and I bear witness to everything you have said. Thanks for having the courage to speak out.
@@shaunigothictv1003 Thanks, brother, and yes i learned a great deal from Edward, also a man that went by “Tentmaker,” Gary Amirault. I think that’s spelled right…
