The Lost Waterways of Manchester The River Tib 

Martin, as you know, I am in awe of this video. A couple of comments. The overflow that you point out certainly won't empty into the Tib. You are right that it simply allows excess water to go from one section of the canal to the next, round a lock. These occur , in one form or another, on every lock that I have ever seen. As for the trap door, these 'plug holes' occur at regular intervals along canals where they cross another water course. There is a simple mechanism on the towpath onto which you attach a chain to pull the plug, trapdoor, or whatever it is up. There are also usually large wooden stop planks nearby and a groove in the stonework at the side of canal to insert them into to isolate a section of the to be drained. In addition, there was often a crane there to help with inserting the planks. Whether this drain into the Tib worked the same way, I have no idea, but it is certainly common practice and it would actually have been stranger had there been no drain.

I once saw the River Tib in the heart of Manchester. In the hot summer of 1976 I was working in Lewis's Department store in Piccadilly. I worked in the perfume stores which was in the labyrinth that was the sub basement, a service level below the shop basement. In one of the corridors is a trapdoor and when it was lifted was the river, as I remember it was noisy and fast flowing. Certainly not a good place to fall into.

Martin, I just wanted to thank you for something. As I told you, my mother (84 years old) suffered a stroke in July and has been in hospital ever since. She was (and is still to a large degree) an intelligent lady. She gave me my interest in local history and she knows so much about Manchester. When she was struck down, she was writing her memoirs. I can't bring myself to read it while she is still alive as I think that some parts of it - abuse while she was evacuated - would upset me too much, but I am told by her sisters that it is gripping reading. Anyway, we are trying to keep her mind active and the other day I showed her this video in hospital. She had headphones on and was lost to everything around her, nodding away as you spoke, gripped by your narrative. It was a joy to watch her so engrossed and happy. On Wednesday she finally moves into a nursing home to be looked after and, inevitably, to end her days. However long that is, I will ensure that your videos help to keep her company. It just goes to show how much of a difference we can make to other people's lives without even knowing it. Once again, thank you.

2017: "I ain't going in there!" 2019: *Wades up the Tib* It's been quite the journey. Thank you sharing it with us.

I wonder if a flyer put on all the doors of Tib Street, asking if anyone has an old hatch to that culvert, would result in a response. It was be really interesting to see.

I worked as a quantity surveyor on a new building on the corner of Tib Street and Dorsey Street in 1995 and when the foundations were dug, they uncovered a section of the culvert containing the River Tib. The Architect, who worked on Tib Street, was ever so excited. Photos must have been taken but I wouldn't know if he still had them. His name is Dominic Sagar and I believe he is now a Senior Lecturer at the University of Manchester.

This is a re-visit of my favorite MZ videos. It's Christmas eve 2023, and I previously watched Martins "Christmas address to the world". NOW, I'm off to see the "Trap Door" video, which was my first Martin Zero video. As a result of Martin's critical research, and devotion to finding and exploring these rivers in Manchester, I can honestly say that the Tib is my favorite, even though we've never seen it.

The same thing happens in Dublin Ireland. We have the poddle river, which the vikings used to navigate Dublin over 1000 years ago. It now is not seen but joins the river Liffey at Victoria qeau. Legend says Guinness used the pure water of the poddle for many years to brue the black stuff. As an ex pat ( heywood ) loved watching the video😊. Brought me home for a few minutes.

G’day from Down Under! Great vids mate, far more interesting than tv and you don’t need a licence

Great video Martin. The map of 1896 has named the Rochdale Canal lock no 89 as "Tib Lock" !

I’m not satisfied with this What I suggest is we completely flatten Manchester and dig down to find it Cost may be an issue but I don’t care, I want to know

🤩 Martin Zero, excellent vid but I have a confession to make 😳, I covet thy dalek 🤩 👍.

Cracking video! Few people know about this stuff. I work for a survey company that carries out work on watercourses, canals and beaches. The job has taken me all over the UK and Ireland treading the paths, towpaths and heavily overgrown banks. Too many stories to tell here: Discovering dead whales in Cumbria Getting stuck in quicksand Watching the sunrise before low tide Watching a river run backwards(because of the tide) Navigating a small boat to and walking around dark arches in Leeds Keep up the good work

As a photographer for British Gas in the late 60s and early 70s I had occasion to take photographs from the river Tib under the Gaythorn Gas Works.

Love it. Born and bred, Cheetham Hill. Keep it up.

Hello Martin, just seen your great video. Many thanks. I haven't had chance to read all the 185 comments, so I may be repeating what someone else has said. I was Safety Officer for Greater Manchester Council from 1978 to 1985. One of the Departments I advised was the Job Creation Schemes. One such job (about 1980) was resurfacing the Rochdale Canal tow path with set stones around the Whitworth Street area. As it happens, the canal was drained at the time. In the vicinity of the arrow that you pointed out was indeed the canal drain. It was like a large plug (like in a bath), made of concrete with a steel (or iron) ring to which was attached a metal chain. It was about 18 inches square. I may still have a photo of it, if you would like to see it. Best Wishes Pete.

Amazing engineering, that you can build something so reliable that it goes out of living memory.

Well made, insightful and history for future generations to enjoy. Otherwise everything fades away and is forgotten.

I have seen the trap door underneath the canal and it was open. It was at some point last week. The canal and river trust had dained the canal and have pulled the the grid open, water was indeed flowing down the drain with ease. I assume as you mentioned it was draining into the river Tib.

Hi Martin In the lates sixties early seventies I used to work at the Littlewoods store which was across from Lewis’s store in Piccadilly when we had severe rain the basement of Littlewoods use to flood with water. The storeman who was in his sixties use to say it was the river Tib

Great find on the trapdoor. The trap door will swel when wet and seal the connection to.tib. As lond as there is no oxygen the wood will be OK for years like the Mary Rose. Great videos can't wait for more

Congratulations, man… 10+ years wasting my life on RU-vid, and you are the first channel I’ve subscribed to after seeing only one video

I absolutely love the Tib. It so fascinating how much of it you can't see and it's little arch is cute. I love your videos.

The Tib LIVES! Excellent video!

👍Very interesting, always loved local history.

Champion mate love your content, followed to here from your post about the trap door in the canal and now I've subbed. Thanks.

Does anyone else just watch these with Google maps permanently open? Great stuff as always Martin, just watched the one about the Manchester and Salford Junction Canal and found it interesting that it enters the Irwell almost exactly adjacent to the old Bolton and Bury canal. All the best from Dublin!

Fascinating that Martin especially with the little arrow carved into the edge of the canal. Imagine being able to see that trap door under the water. Very mysterious. Brilliant video as usual.

I love in the United States and this is all so very interesting. I love this. Thank you

Thank you, Martin, for this great background video. Please continue your work. You are a VERY good reporter, and your work is much appreciated.

What a bloke. Amazing. Can't stop watching 👍

Well done Martin, my grandmother used to tell us stories about this river she lived in all these area’s back in the 1800s

Wonderful Video. I live on Tib Street and it is great fun to learn of its eponymity. Thanks for your efforts! (subscribed)

Superb video Martin. In the 60s my late Mum worked in Manchester city centre at Swears and Wells furriers. Sometimes on Saturday I would go with her on the train from Bolton. I used to love wandering around Tib street looking at all the pet shops. I never knew there was a river Tib until now.

Hey Martin, I was born in Cheetham Hill. just off Halliwell Lane. Keep it up. love. Brendan.

I've just stumbled upon your video's, absolutely fascinating, thank you. Just, in my eyes, another clue, it seems to pass under The Waterhouse pub, if yourself or somebody has already noticed, I apologise for repeating them.

Awesome show, Martin!

These old tunnels an culverts are now very old. They have also been completely built over so are inaccessible for maintenance. With time and the erosion of water the structure must need maintenance but if you cant get to it then how does it work. If the culvert collapsed the Trib would dam and back up and all sorts would happen so basically I am confused but interested how you can do that over hundreds of years and not encounter major problems. Thanks for your videos. Regards Simon.

This guy literally has a personal connection with waterways. He feels sympathy for them, and wants them to know that someone cares about them and that they are a great piece of history that’s not forgotten. I fucking love This dude

Brilliant - thank you

Absolutely fantastic video! The overflow your correct about. All locks have them. I counted them once in maple locks as I disbelieved a friend until we put a cork in each and watched it come out. .... What a long day that was.

Really enjoyed this video Martin,o first heard of the tib a few years ago and this vid tells you everything you need to know,schools should use your videos as part of local history lessons

Once again, Martin, a truly amazing and deliciously refreshing immersion into Manchester's waterways. You have a magical way of leading us through each adventure... I readily admit that I am emotionally involved with everything Manchester history and at the end of this particular journey, upon seeing the Tib being led through the brick archway and into the Medlock, a tiny tear left my eye and trickled with it... :) x

Love your work very interesting. 2nd day watching without rest. Just cant get enough.

love it - i use to shop there ;-) got my first gerbil in fact.

Its 4 am and I am bingeing on your vids again, you are a complete danger to my fucking sleep patterns mate and I LOVE IT!!! I've seen this one before but there is so much detail that I'm getting more out of it this time round.Totally brilliant mate

Brilliant video.....love all these old pieces of almost forgotten history..... Loved your video on the canal plug.... cheers Martin 👍

Facinating

Awesome video dude… You remind me a lot of myself. I live in New Jersey, USA, home of the now defunct Morris Canal that ran from the Delaware river at the NJ/PA border, across Nj to jersey city. It ruins run right through warren county where I live, and The canal itself is mostly still there Albeit drained, as well as ruins of a lot of the locks and former canal works. My friend even lives in the former Canal keepers house. The canal has always fascinated me, and I’ve been traveling around seeing every bit of it that I can. Glad to see there’s another guy like me in the world keep it up mate. Love from USA

I have just found your content and I’m looking forward to watching all your uploads. Fantastic content.

Think I have been in Manchester City 3 times in my life, so real feel for the street layout or geography, but waht a superb video, I 've subscribed!

Hey Martin My wife and I have been down to the locks today and actually seen the trap door👍👍👍

Brilliant video! Reminds me of London's River Fleet. Fascinating to think wherever you are there could be a hidden river beneath your feet!

👍🏻 keep all this up Martin, it’s really interesting stuff. I grew up in Droylsden, probably a little older than you but have the same memories. The joke shop, pet shops a tortoise. I feel like I have walked down Tib street a million times without really knowing the real history until............NOW.

Hi Martin. Was just about to give you a heads up the canal had been drained revealing the plug into the Tib. The canal workmen explained you have already been around filming last week. So look forward to the next vlog!

Awesome

I'm a soft Southerner, but my wife and I ADORE Manchester, and I really enjoy your videos Martin. Watching your various instalments and content about the lost rivers and streams, especially the Tib, got me thinking. I doubt it's possible, both technically and financially, but how cool would it be to pop a medical pill cam down that underwater trapdoor. I expect one would need to glue some kind of buoyancy material on it, but it would be so cool to see some of the hidden areas of the river!

I just LOVE your videos. Learning so much about the city I've lived in and loved for the last 25 years Thank you

Cool lil water-race.

On tib street at the minute. Going to have a look for the river soon 🤌🏻

Very interesting and informative Martin as are all you videos. Keep up the good work.

"I ain't going in there." If only you'd known.😁👍 Just found this one today Martin, one I had missed. Who could have known, back then, how important that wee trapdoor would be to the channel?😂

Hello from the state of Connecticut, USA. I was drawn in to this video like the canal water through the trap door to the Tib. Wonderful video Martin.

Interesting. Wood takes a very long time to rot in water. The whole of Venice is sat in wooden piles and it only really rots above the water level

You are an amazing person doing what you do, your videos are so well done with so much information and passion!! Thank you.

Love your videos Martin

Your videos are awesome mate, Australian flow enthusiast 🤣.

As usual a brilliantly made video full of interesting facts. I’m from London originally but I find videos on lost rivers and old structures absolutely fascinating. Many thanks Martin for yet again a marvellous video.

Superb video as always working my way through them can’t get enough of em👍Cheers Martin 👍

Once again Martin I love it. Many thanks.

It's 4:30 in the morning just finish work time for a Martin zero video and cup of tea

Thanks Martin. You are really opening our eyes to this great city. Keep on mate.

I think you should grab a canoe and take your camera's and go for a wander down the medlock river culvert. Would make for a great video and you'd have a great adventure... Hope you do it..

What an inspirational video. My head is full of fantasy stories now. Thanks 😃 I navigated the Rochdale Canal some years ago and didn't realise that was there. It was very interesting going under the city on the canal and also very hard work. Couldn't do it now as its for the young and 💪 but fantastic experience. Oh and I see the wooden board is still there. 😊

like the dalek

Hi Martin I arrived here from the Canals and Rivers UK Facebook page. I clicked the link with the intention of watching a few minutes only, well I stayed to the end and enjoyed it so much I have now subscribed. I am off to check out your other videos, well done and thank you.

I am now nostalgic for the river Tib and I've never even been to England 🤣

Start of tib st market street end they were doing some Road works they had cut through the culvert I could see the river running it was black I also like near the plague stone it was sited on the corner of great stone road and Chester road hence the name

I have been fascinated with England's underground rivers ever since I first heard about them. Great video, but I would love to actually get down into some of the tunnels and explore them 1st hand.

Fascinating video and great sleuth work. I spent very little time in Manchester on a stop over but I appreciate your insights into Manchester’s history.

Hi Martin. What an interesting story. I'm a Manc living in south Wales, and when I'm next back there, I'll take a walk down Tib Street just to remind me of its origins. As a kid I used to work on the CWS potato market just behind the rotunda building on Swan Street that is now HBL, but used to be District Bank. If I understand you correctly, the Tib must have run close to or under the two buildings. The other connection, is that I'm pretty sure I'm related to the Chaddertons of Little Nuthurst Hall - the most famous of whom, Bishop William Chadderton (1540-1608) - built the New Fleet Prison by the Cathedral and the River Irwell. I remember the ruins of that building between Corporation Street and Long Millgate - now the new tram hub. The prison was built to incarcerate prominent Catholics - many of whom were hung on the banks if the Irwell if they refused to recant the faith.

Martin, Like Brian Robertson (Facebook friend), I too am in awe of your hard work and dedication. Bravo!

The trapdoor in the Rochdale would be made of elm, probably Wych Elm,. Elm will last for centuries if kept either permanently dry or permanently wet. Some Elizabethan (I think) elm water pipes were found some years back, still in goodish order.

Brilliant thank you for our history regards Liz

Brilliant this mate love finding out about the underground in manchester! Keep up the good work mate!

Intriguing 1st video of yours I've watched... Will be watching more. Brilliant content

Enjoying watching your videos Martin, worked in Whitworth Street during the 1950s and 60s in Africa House and later Bridgewater House, both backing on to the Rochdale Canal.

Have you ever been back to explore the River Tib in full I see you’ve visited the outlet into the Medlock but wondered if you’d explored further? Really enjoyed the Lost River Series you’ve done on the Cornbrook and Shooters Brook was fascinating.

Martin Loves the videos, it’s a great insight into Manchester. Never been there but I feel so much about the history of the city. Keep up the good work👍

This is so cool! I love tracking down local mysteries like this

Hi Martin. Just found this from a quick Google, wondering why there was so much interest in the River Tib driving people to Hidden Manchester in one day. Great video and love that you’ve made it. Really pleased you found the towpath mark-I thought that section was boarded off at the moment but I can share the joy I felt when I finally found it. I confirmed that the trap door definitely exists with the Canal & River trust-they have inspected it in the last few years. And well done for visiting the source-haven’t made it myself yet as I suspected there would be nothing to see, given that by all accounts it’s almost entirely dry now. Would you possibly be able to update the credit for the map? It’s actually nothing to do with the Manchester Evening News-they just used it in one of their stories. Although I’ve used a lot of other people’s research I’ve put a huge amount of my own time into it over years. I’d love to link to or embed your video on here: hidden-manchester.org.uk/waterways/river-tib.html Let me know if you want a chat about other interesting stuff or to share research. I’ve a few things I need to research further and write about. Off to watch a few of your other videos now! Keep up the good work.

Fascinating video. Pity though that city expansion and our want for modern facilities destroys old landmarks. I notice the River Tib isn't the only casualty of progress in that area; The land that "Home" sits on was once (in 2003) a green field with trees and other open spaces. Now lost forever under concrete and asphalt.

I loved this mate, so interesting! I don't think that newer pic is the Tib going into the Medlock, I agree with you it's the first pic with the little arch. Loved the edit, the music, everything! What did you use for the water shots? It's a shame how these little bits of history are built over. Imagine tracing the path of the Tibb back through that Medlock culvert, I wonder if it's wide enough for a human all the way through? I bet the trapdoor underwater was covered in tar, I bet the silt has helped preserve it too along with the weight of the water and silt on top of it. Imagine draining the canal and digging it out? Great stuff.

Martin, I don't know if you've seen the maps that are available on the National Library of Scotland, which may help with your research. They have historical maps that can be overlaid onto modern maps. If you search for maps {dot} nls {dot} uk {forward slash} geo. You should find them

Great video showcasing the hidden secrets of Manchester.

What a great little video Martin I look forward to the next one

Another very interesting video Martin - really enjoy watching them

I had that book too but unfortunately and quite ironically it got badly water damaged

Wow amazing! Walked around there last week didn't realise what was below me lol

Funny to think that tiny arrow would launch your channel into the stratosphere. ^^ Also, love watching this video in retrospect. If only you'd known…