The Lunar Sorcerer - is it too powerful? D&D 5e 

Its not that depth of the explanations that Treantmonk provides, its the reasoning and in-game scenarios he brings up that is so refreshing and useful. He's that calm and reasonable voice in the back of the room when the D&D community invariably overreact.

Lunar sorcerers not getting Moonbeam makes about as much sense as storm sorcerers not getting Call Lightning. Just baffling honestly.

Glad someone is actually putting some rational thought into this.

For Waxing and Waning at 6th level, I think the best potential use of it would be to switch to Crescent Moon after you use your casting of shield, and right before you're about to twin one of the better transmutation spells (e.g. levitate, haste, polymorph),. That way at worst you break even, and you could potentially save up to 2 more if you cast other transmutation/illusion spells the same day. Definitely not OP since there are alot of constraints on this working out favorably, but not completely useless either.

This sorcerer would have been better if it had the moonbeam spell added to the list. How can you not have the most (moonlike?) themed spell not on the list? Overall I feel this is a great analysis of the subclass. Another very well done video. Thank you.

Nice analysis! I was kind of shocked when I found out that people were freaking out over this subclass as well, since I had already approved it for my playgroup to use since I had found nothing wrong with it. People are treating this like the Twilight + Peace Domain combo and I just can't help but wonder if they've actually read the class

These abilities were obviously originally written to represent the 3 moons of Krynn (and the associated gods of magic), but got that stripped away as the company made sure player-facing materials were campaign neutral for broad appeal. I'd wager a few mechanics were retinkered along the way as well.

At first I was full of interest for this subclass. But as your video continued my interest waned, eventually being eclipsed by my abiding love of the Clockwork Soul.

I knew I should not have looked at the UA version and got excited about it. Also, thank you for being so reasonable and rational in your explanations. I can't stand the reactionary content creators that are howling about it being op and "Pls nerf/ban". 😁

Its so silly they dont have Moonbeam for full moon and Darkness for new moon, they couldve give all three faces 1 evocation spell that was thematic. It feels like they didnt want to step on the other subclasses toes with the spell list. Still an interesting concept.

That flavor text for how this sorcerer's magic can manifest directly makes it one of the absolute best class/subclass to play in the WIld beyond the Witchlight campaign.

You're such a great part of the dnd community, thanks for making these Chris.

I share the opinions on the Lunar spells. Yes, the feature is great for a sorcerer, but it's not overpowered due to the spells presented and the fact that you can only cast the 1st level spell without a spell slot, instead of one each from the phase you are in. Also, I think I personally prefered the UA spell list.

I always forget that Sorcerers don't get ritual casting. I would honestly put this subclass on the same level as Divine Soul. 15 bonus spells means so little when the selection is so poor. Even if I couldn't switch spells with Aberrant Mind, the base spells it gets are all decent. Divine Soul may not get 15 bonus spells, but since you have access to the Cleric spell list the spells you _do_ have will just be so much more impactful than anything you're doing with Lunar.

It seems that this is another subclass designed more for the setting that it is in (DL in this case) than the "generic" ones in Tashas. Dragon Lance (at least in 2nd ed.) was an absolutely brutal and unforgiving world that was responsible for the death of 2 of my characters, and my Paladin falling from grace. If they tried to maintain any of that visceral quality in the 5th ed. supplement (...), then the players will need every benefit they can get their hands on to survive. Also, hard to imagine any of this working in D&D Beyond, as they are notorious for not attending to Sorcerer ability functions

I’m not sure if this reading is correct but the lunar embodiment at 1st level says “these spells count as a sorcerer spell for you”. Sorcerers can also switch out sorcerer spells on level up. The wording is that “when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the sorcerer spells you know and replace it with another on the sorcerer spell list” So unless there is some hidden rule I don’t know about saying you can’t switch out table spells, you can replace the trash spells with better ones.”

This is the best review I have seen on the Lunar sorcerer. Hearing a lot of chatter about it being overpowered and bannable I thought I was missing something. Sure 15 spells, but I only think about 6 are spells I would actually cast. I did do a character build for the Lunar Sorcerer on my channel and I realized my biggest disappointment for the Lunar Sorcerer is a lack of a theme that involves the moon. Taking a bunch of existing spells, separating them into 3 piles and calling them "moon phases" was disheartening. With no moon-theme to build around, I opted to focus on Twinning spells. Again, well done on thus review! Great to hear that I wasnt the only one skeptical of it being overpowered. Cheers!

Amazing video. Main conclusion from whole situation- majority of D&D content creators don't understand how D&D math and mechanics work. And saddest part- their fanbases will influence ONE D&D surveys, filling them according to their incompetent videos.

It looks extremely strong at first glance, but reading it through makes it apparent that is power budget isn't as dramatic as it looks. You get free sorcery points - but this mostly just offsets the problem of having to change your lunar phase. You just get a lot of passive features that range from okay to decent. It's a very flavorful sorcerer with enough tacked on to make it stronger than your pre-TCE Sorcerers, but I don't know what I would do to optimize it. Although twin Sacred Flame (or Acid Splash or Green-Flame Blade) with Telepathic feat isn't something I've seen before.

You'd think people invested enough in the game to instantly read up on new subclasses would know that just because you have a spell doesn't necessarily mean you'll ever use it. It matters how many spells you get THAT YOU'LL USE, people. Imagine a warlock subclass that got every single cantrip, judging by how people reacted to this sorcerer they'd ban that subclass instantly.

I was unimpressed my this subclass initially for the same reasons you bring up, Chris. And on the subject of Aberrant vs Clockwork, while I agree there is greater flexibility with the spell selections, I really like the summon spells and since Summon Construct has big problems compared to Summon Aberration, I tend to lean toward the Abberant sorcerer. I also think the other subclass features for the Abberant sorcerer are more engaging.

I feel like that moon fire feature could have easily just been “you get the sacred flame cantrip and once you hit 3rd level you get moonbeam”

Hey Treantmonk, something that I've seen brought up a few times is if you can switch out the Lunar Emodiment spells for other spells when you level up. From what I've seen, there are two sides to this. One side says that you can't switch them out since it doesn't state that you can (like with the Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul), other "additional spells" features like Domain spells, Conclave spells, and similar features like the 10th level Fathomless Warlock feature don't allow you to switch them out (at least that is the general consensus), and the line "These spells don't count against the number of (inster class) spells you know/prepare." doesn't allow you to switch them out since it's a spell you have known/prepared outside of the ones form you base class. The other side says that since each of the features has this line: "These spells count as (insert class) spells for you", it means that they go by the class' prepared/known rules, meaning you can switch them out. Where do you stand on this? (apologies if you have already answered this in a video or a comment already)

To be honest, sorcerers need buffing, though I was not aware that people were loosing it over this.

What if this (and Tasha's) aren't overpowered, but the others are underpowered?...

really happy the way you broke down this class and compared some of its features to other classes and the spell list I have better predictive on it now

Great breakdown, I was waiting for your analysis. I looked around at some other content makers, an they were in the process of banning this subclass, and after reviewing the class myself, I didn't really understand why. I have really hope moving forward that all the other Sorcerer subclasses get the Aberrant Mind, Clockwork Soul, and now the Lunar treatment with the additional spells/switching options. Take care all.

Great analysis, Chris! I'm more excited by the different mechanics being introduced or brought back than the overall strength of the subclass. It bodes well for making gameplay and optimization more interesting. Probably the strangest thing I can think of doing with this subclass is taking Ritual Caster: Sorcerer and combining with Arcana proficiency to scribe scrolls of the ritual spells from the different phases to add to the ritual book so they're always available. It's not super strong, and not necessarily optimal as an overall build decision, but if one has a spare feat that would further add to the sustain and utility. It could be good in a campaign where magic items aren't widely available. Mostly, though, I look forward to seeing what sorts of multiclass builds the community comes up with. There's gotta be something interesting for Sorcadins in there.

Great review Treantmonk! 👏

Your video persuaded me that this subclass is appropriate to the power level recent sorcerer subclasses have been designed for. I initially thought it to be overpowered mostly because it has features that on the surface look OP (15 spells, more sorcery points) but they come with caveats that are pretty significant once pointed out. Great breakdown, glad I watched

Thank you for a great video. I hope you had a great Thanksgiving.

A vídeo with good nerfs to overpowered subclasses would be bitter BUT EXTREMELY USEFUL!

I like how positive you are, Chris, even when you disagree with others' assessments

Now this with the new background that gives you two bonus feats does make this very much the most powerful sorcerer subclass. Though technically you don't have to have this subclass to play that background. But I was reading my digital copy of the book today and god damn that combo of the background + this subclass + variant human getting magic initiate. Then at 4th level you can either increase your stats or take metamagic adept. Both are super super good. Shadow touched is another great feat that could come either at 1st or 4th level that also adds more spells. Elemental adept if you wanted to focus in on it but probably not the best choice. Either way sorcerers are eating better than I did on thanksgiving yesterday.

Sounds like taking 1 or two levels of twilight cleric then going clockwork sorcerer would be better for the lunar theme.

Been saying that Lunar isn't as op as it looks to my friends and they thought I was joking, so I'm gonna link this video to them. Standard Sorcerer not having even 20 spells at level 20 is annoyingly restrictive (even more when compared with wizard 44 free spells before any subclass addition), so any subclass that gives 5 or more spells to it usually calls a lot of attention. But quality is an important factor as you said. The most standard Divine Sorcerer could go the entire campaign just spamming spiritual weapon and spirit guardians and be extremely effective, with way more slots to burn than the cleric trying to do the same (and you still have the sorcerer list to fireball away if you so desire). Clockwork, even on it's most meme build I can think of (spam overlevel Armor of Agathys and go close and personal with burst spells) is still fairly strong thanks to its features (Reliable talent for attacks and saves? Hell yeah). Aberrant Mind might not have a spell list as strong, but Psionic Sorcery and Revelation in Flesh might be the two most powerful sorcerer abilities in the game (my mind went blank, so I can't remember other sorcerer abilities right now, but they are at least on top 5 for sure). Casting spells by spending only a sorcery point instead of slot, and they come with a built-in subtle metamagic (but since it is not worded as such, it means you can put another metamagic on it when casting) is phenomenal, even with a "weaker" list. And Revelation in Flesh is a cheap 10 min, non-concentration, zero cooldown transformation that carries a lot of utility. There are very few, almost none, scenarios where your character would still be trapped, or couldn't progress in the adventure after getting the transformation needed for the occasion, let alone all 4 (one of them is a non-concentration FLY for 1 sorcerer point, at level 14, you might as well assume you always have a flying speed). Lunar is...ok, definitely not weak, but it has some null-gain traps on it. The quick change that cost 1 sorc point, so you can save 1 sorc point is one as you mentioned, but the biggest one to me is having shield as the extra spell (even more when you think it is probably one of the best spell in the lists). Shield is great, arguably overpowered! But is also such a staple of casters that have access to it, that every sorcerer would pick it anyways. The great gain of the class is...1 really good extra known spell, and a bag of mixed goods. If we're talking standard gaming here, a Booming Blade Draconic Sorcerer would cause more balancing problems. And if go to true optimization, I would say Divine, Clockwork and Aberrant take the cake, even more if we talk multiclass into the equation.

I like the theme. It seems in line with my memory of the Dragonlance Chronicles (read decades ago).

Another great video, this time regarding a black Friday deal subclass.

"There's so many spells!" "Yeah, but they're bad." "But there are so many!"

It would definitely be broken if they could either change the spells out or just had a better spell list, could also combo well with a pact of the tome warlock dip for their ability to ritually cast any ritual spell they can learn, or might be worth the ritual casting feat.

One of my players made a Selune worshipping sorceress this campaign! She is going to love this. Perfect timing.

You don’t get likes on the internets if you don’t irrationally scream “Day One BAN!!!” Except from me…I give my likes to coherent analysis like that found in this video, Chris. Great job as always.

Was waiting for you to say "Where the heck is moonbeam??" and was getting worried you didn't catch it until the end of the video lol.

Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the sorcerer spells you know and replace it with another spell from the sorcerer spell list, which also must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

keep it going !! lets do it !

Agreed. this is not as powerful as the clock sorc (that gets wall of force which is one of the best spells for it's level in the game along with other standouts like armor of agathys, tiny servant, rope trick and greater restoration). Not only do i think the aberrant mind is ahead of this (psionic sorcery is an awesome ability) but even the divine soul is ahead of this with this with its access to all cleric spells. i'm not a big believer in the whole getting more spells (lunar sorc) is more important than getting the right spells (divine sorc). the divine sorc gives access to standouts again like aid, command, death ward and spirit guardians. would i like to play this? sure just to try it out. but the theme doesnt excite me. the mechanics just feel like a controlled form of wild magic instead of something really tied to the phases of the moon. i dont think any of the abilities are particularly powerful and yes, moonbeam, was a big miss. the abilities feel like generic enhancements to the base sorc. I'd have wanted abilities also that kind of steered this into an archetype that it would be excellent at. imo, another big miss is not giving this sorc any sort of wild shape/shifter ability as the whole "Were-animal" theme is very much tied to the phases of the moon.

I think the subclass is a step in the right direction for sorcerors. Not being as versatile as wizards but just as fragile, it's the class features that make them stand apart and makes them special because they just naturally jave access to spells that the other spellcasters don't immediately. This, Abberant Mind, and Divine Soul are to me what a sorceror should look like

UA lunar sorc was as good as Clockwork an aberrant, published is worse than both and worse than Divine soul too imo. I'd take fewer spells known but access to Cleric list over 15 mostly bad spells known. Plus concentration free flight is better than any of the Lunar late level abilities

Me and my DM went through this subclass together and we both decided to change the Waxing and Waning phase spells to somethiung else but in the same schools. Now every Lunar Embodiment Phase became so much more useful as every spell had something to offer

Very well explained and good review of this subclass! I was really curious what you had to say, because before watching this I didn't know about the subclass. The way you present it is perfect! I have one question. The way I see it is that the Sacred Flame cantrip is probably the best spell to combine with Wall of Force, because it is the only spell that can still target an enemy inside a WoF after it has been trapped. It costs no spell slots and is easy to setup. I don't see anyone talking about it. Am I missing something and overhyping it? I hope you can give me more insight.

Its like the Wildfire Druid not getting fireball...

I have not seen the Lunar Sorcerer since the UA (and my friend and I were bemoaning them getting Death Ward at Level _5_ instead of 7; maybe an overreaction, but that was what we honed in on), but anyway, I watched this first, to see if it was still (in our eyes) overpowered, and it's good to see it isn't-if it ever was to begin with (we really might've been focusing too much on that Death Ward thing back then). As someone who never played a Sorcerer before (it's one of maybe three classes I haven't delved into), I did not know Clockwork and Aberrant Mind _could_ swap out spells of specific types, and with three different spell lists too. That's good to know if I ever _do_ finally get into Sorcerer. (I _adore_ Metamagic, but the subclasses just never spoke to me, sadly). Anyway, great video. Always a pleasure to see you dig into things from a logical perspective. RIP Moonbeam.

So happy you’re speaking some sense on this subclass. It’s nothin special!

Sidebar: I'd argue that Color Spray can be a decent spell when used properly. It has no save (Hit point based only) and affects a decent hitpoint pool that scales well. Sure, it only lasts 1 round and Sleep could last much longer, but Sleep can be interrupted, resulting in the affected creatures still taking their turns, and some creatures are immune to it. Less creatures are immune to being blinded. If timed right, color spray can offer a substantial advantage in a battle where the goal is just to kill the things. One round of guaranteed advantage on attacks against and disadvantage on attacks from the enemies can turn the tide of a fight. That said, great video! As always, a very balanced and fair review.

Keep in mind, as a Sorcerer, getting free spell slots is extra nice because you can convert those into Sorcery Points. Anytime the amount of Sorcery Points matters, chances are you will use Shield at least once, so that's what it amounts to. What I find a bit weak here is how they theme the features with the moon phases only for the phases of the actual moon to then be completely irrelevant. Now, obviously few people would want to track this, in practice it would be a pain to have significant features tied something like moon phases. But then why the heck can't they think of a more fitting themeing and names of the features? Why don't they refer to Krynn's moons, for instance? It's just random names that have the word "moon" in them, there's nothing waxing and waning or otherwise moonish about the mechanics. What is actually "lunar" about the Lunar Sorcerer? It's a sorcerer that shifts between three modes and gets a bunch of spells and metamagic boni depending of the mode they're in. Based on what I've seen of the next edition of D&D in the UAs so far, it seems to be a trend for WotC to more frequently just go "f*%$ it, let's not worry about theme anymore and just hand out random bundles of features and spells and be done with it" and I think they're missing opportunities there and they risk making things seem rather bland and exchangeable.

I think you actually can retrain a lunar spell as your 1 spell per level up by RAW. Lunar embodiment uses the same language as the bard's magical secrets feature as well as the divine soul sorcerer's divine magic feature, for example. This should apply to any spells known class that learns additional spells through their subclass, like the gloom stalker ranger (though it wouldn't apply to the ranger's primal awareness optional class feature, because that doesn't specify whether the additional spells learned are ranger spells). All this being said, I definitely wouldn't begrudge any DM who ruled otherwise.

18th level features are nice, the first one is like a healing word but not a spell, bonus action healing is good in a pinch, and blinding can be strong, The second one is great because it it both a movement reduction and with invisibility an get out of range for free, it simply is a great tool to retreat from an oops I messed up. Teleport is good utillity. Also it is definately better than insert low level spell that can do the same, because even if you can cast it as a bonus action, it does not eat you spellcast for the turn.

At my table, I always boost sorcerers so they match between subclasses and are more equal to wizards. I give all subclasses extra spells like aberrant mind (Divine Soul only gets cleric spells) plus I give the Metamagic feat for free.

Would you consider making a video dividing ALL spells in DnD 5e into categories based on power/usefulness? Not ranking them, just Good/Situational/Bad, like you did in this video?

Something else I think it’s good to bring up, waxing and waning is just a worse psionic sorcery. The psionic sorcery ability also comes online at 6th level, but it lets you cast every psionic spell with sorcery points equal to the spell level. So instead of only being able to spend a sorcery point once to get an extra first level slot you can spend as many sorcery points as you want to cast your actual good 1st level spells, as well all your other psionic spells, and also throw in a free subtle spell that works on non costly material components as well. On top of that the get advantage on charm and frightened saves instead of the lunar sorcerer’s few extra sorcerer points (psionic also get resistance to psychic damage at this level but that isn’t a common damage type. It’s a nice feature but it wouldn’t even be unusual to not take psychic damage in a campaign). So basically before level 14, which after most campaigns end, psionic sorcery have: Better extended spells Better added cantrip (even with two targets I would rarely cast sacred flame, but mind sliver being an int saving throw and giving the creature 1d4 less on its next save is definitely something I’d do while concentrating a spell to help out my teammate) An actual 1st level ability (not a good one mind you but it’s decent) Better sorcery point to spell conversion And advantage on charmed and frightened conditions While the lunar sorcerer gets like 3-4 extra sorcery point to spend on specific spells and the ability to cast shield an extra time. So after 1st or 2nd level the psionic sorcerer basically overshadows the lunar sorcerer in every way until level 14. Now just like how even though sorcerers are basically worse wizards that doesn’t make a sorcerer a bad class, lunar being worse than psionic doesn’t make it a bad subclass, being worse than the second best subclass is still pretty good. But lunar sorcery really aren’t OP at all, like you said.

I think waxing and waning is still better then no feature at 6. As you said the free shield is the most likely default phase, but those schools aren't gteat for the cost reduction (of course exception happen depending on the situation). But if I have already used my shield and know i won't use the reduction on those schools, I will change if I find the reduction come up in a different school. The logic being: initially its a wash, but if I get one more use before the end of the day that I wouldn't have gotten with the initisl phase I still "gained" a sorcery point. Having 3 "extra points" and not using them is worse then having 1 or 2, but actually getting to use it ;) Of course I will also need the bonus action free whdn the situation comes, so plenty of limitations, but still better then not having the option...

I think this also has some holdover from the UA which was much stronger so it has a built in perception of being super strong. In the UA you could cast all of the spells in your phase for free once, not just first level spells, along with a different spell list with some better options. The level 14 features were also a lot stronger with full moon giving advantage on saving throws in your light and new moon giving disadvantage against you in dim light and darkness not just darkness.

i really love the theme honestly. Power from the moon/s is really cool and as you pointed out where is moon beam? if other spells are reasonably bad and moon beam isnt that great why isnt it there which fits more the theme? anyway loved your analysis and breakdown. this was good ty.

My Twilight Cleric is OFFENDED that this doesn't include Moonbeam

Can you do a shield master build? I would love to see how you optimize given that particular playstyle

also remember that lunar boons used to reduce the metamagic cost for evocation spells instead of enchantment spells and as some1 that tend to focus on spells i can twin and quicken etc.which tends to be evocation spells, this is a pretty big nerf for how i tend to make my sorcerers to the point where i would never pick a lunar sorcerer over a clockwork or aberrant mind sorcerer, i personally rank the lunar sorcerer pretty low as i cant see myself using the subclass' abilities very often and i would rank it on the lvl of shadow and divine soul sorc .

"Over the moon for this..." Ha!

A minor benefit of the Lunar Empowerment (Full Moon) phase is that having advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks increases your Passive Perception by 5. Not a huge bonus, but given that it applies to all creatures within the area of light, it's a decent party buff in areas where you'd want more Passive Perception.

Well, someone can finally go: "In the name of the moon, I will punish you!"

I wouldn't call it OP either, but... Free subtle casts of either enchantment or illusion spells could be extremely powerful in either stealthy or social-heavy type of encounters. Just imagine lunar sorc with a new moon boon casting subtle suggestions left right and center without anyone even realising that they're using magic. Neat! ( I would also need to scroll through necromancy and transmutation spells. There might be some really potent combos with 1-point quickening there, with a free empowerment on top of it!)

For the 14th level feature, does the advantage and disadvantage cancel out or is this a case of specific overwrites general and it overwrites it to disadvantage regardless of other factors?

If Lunar had the substitution clause for their bonus spells TM would be singing a different tune. XD

What are your thoughts if they didn't get more spells but more metamagic and sorcerer points? Like Transmute should be given at first level and as you level up you get access to more types of damage. They bend magic to their will. They should be customizing their available magic more instead of more spells.

What I thought was interesting about the capstone feature is that you can use each feature once, and then using that feature a second time cost 5 sorcery points.

They slaughtered this thing's spell list from the UA, hot damn. It lost most of the useful spells like Mass Cure Wounds, Darkness, Faerie Fire, Sanctuary, Dissonant Whispers, Moonbeam. It got Shield and Dispel Magic, but I kinda feel sorry for it. Yeah, this is kinda sad now. I don't think it'll be too potent versus the other sorcerers.

I am convinced this subclass is a preview of what oned&d will do to sorcerers: you get two Arcane Schools of your choice + 2 determined by your subclass.

One thing I have not seen given credit to this subclass is how powerful it is for the typical 2 Warlock/X Sorcerer Sorlock blaster that intends to use their sorcery points to quicken evocation spells. A typical level 5 2W/3S Sorlock blaster would have 3 Sorcery points, and it costs 2 sorcery points to quicken, so unless they burn spell slots for sorcery points they're only getting 1 off. However, 3 levels of Lunar Sorcerer that uses the New Moon phase is able to quicken an evocation spell for 1 sorcery point 3 times a day, which is also coincidentally how many sorcery points they have by default. This essentially triples the amount of quickens they can perform in a day before needing to burn spell slots for sorcery points. At level 7 they can quicken 4 times with their base slots, and then since their proficiency goes up at level 9 they will then be able to quicken 5 times with their base slots, and then 6 times at level 10. Pretty much the entire time through their career once they hit level 5 they will be able to quicken more blasts than even a full Sorcerer of another subclass at the same level would be able to without burning slots.

The thing that strikes me watching this video is that the class might be powerful but it isn't flavorful. When I think about the clockwork soul its theme is exciting, and I might be disappointed I can't easily combine it with the Artificer. When I think about the Aberrant mind it's powerful, fun, and combines easily with a warlock, that's great. Now what about a lunar sorcerer? I'm thinking about darkness, light, shadow, a real focus on illusion. That's not what this class delivers. It's keystone feature seems to be a free shield spell that I can maybe flavor to be somehow moon related?

How would you recommend DMing for a lunar sorcerer? I have one in my group I want to make feel powerful

I like their kit, I just wish WotC had decided to follow the same formula they used for Ab Mind and Clockwork, which would make the discussion to add an extra thematic spell list to your older subclasses a much easier discussion.

Hey Treant - I love playing charisma based characters. love those warlock dips. I also really like the versatility of meta-magic. I was always under the impression that, from a game balance point of view, that sorcerers got the bonus of meta-magic by paying the penalty of knowing the fewest number of spells of any caster. Seemed like a tough penalty but who was I to complain, right? But then clockwork and aberrant come out and you'd have to be a fool not to play one of those if you want to go sorcerer. Since then I have talked with DM's and they have been cool with us picking out two spells from levels one through five to augment previous sorcerer classes. In your opinion, does this sway the power curve massively in favor of the earlier sorcerer classes? I guess what I am asking is, did the designers of the clockwork and aberrant take into account how powerful the ten bonus spells were and not give those classes enough power in their other abilities? It doesn't seem like it to me - also, in the case of divine soul, we pick an appropriate list of a cleric subclass. Thanks!

For the level 14 Full moon feature I think the advantage for active checks isn't as impactful as the +5 for passive perception. That can be a nice boost to go from good passive perception to great or from great to really incredible. Overall good analysis! Not sure how people seemingly missed not being able to swap the spells as that's the best part of the other sorcerer subclass lists. And this list even with it being 15 spells is one of the worst especially with two of the otherwise good ones being bad because they're not rituals for the sorcerer. So many spells I just couldn't see casting even a few times a campaign. Even at level 20 I usually don't want to just burn a 5th level spell slot for telepathic bond.

Thoughts on a < 6 lvl dip? Is this competitive with Divine Soul as a one lvl starting dip?

Personally I would put it at the top of B tier, it's one of the more powerful sorcerer subclasses for sure,but it's not aberrant mind or clockwork soul. Great video as always dude

Waxing and Waning would have made more sense and would have made it much better if you were allowed to cast all of the spells on whatever phase you choose for free. I mean you could cast a first level spell "for free" by just using the metamagic feature to give yourself a first level slot. You're still spending sorcery points as a bonus action anyways

So cool

The level 18 feature is good even with 5 SP in some situations because they don't count as spells, so you don't get limited down by the cantrip restriction. But yeah, it's level 18 which many campaigns will never get there anyway.

Hello Chris @treantmonk, have you done an analysis on the barbarian rogue multiclass? I have been playing it for while now and to me it feels quite good. Mine is a Zealot 5/Scout X. I havent seen much said about it but feel it has very reliable and quite decent damage, excelent defense across the board, great mobility and excelent skills. What is your opinion there? My build uses scimitar and dueling fighting style, and sentinel but with strength. Which might not ve absolute max but ends up as two attacks with advantage doing some 2d6+16 +5d6+2 once +5d6+8 if sentinel is triggerd at lvl 12. Add as you wish for magic weapons etc.

Briefly read over the UA, looks pretty cool, the spell lists are much better. Do you think the UA is overpowered, or would you let a player use it over the official version, Treanmonk?

With the sorcerer spell retraining options, wouldn’t you be allowed to retrain these spells and with other choices from the sorcerer list? Making it better then what it seems

Any feature that stands out for any interesting multiclass? I was eyeing this subclass for a Sorcadin/Soradin build, but I'm struggling to see a path (Same for CW and AM) that doesn't lead me to "A Caster with better Armor" or "Smite Machine". I know that the spells can be used to add versatility. Still, Divine Soul with the access to Spirit Guardians and Holy Weapon fills the fantasy of the gish better in my opinion, which is sad, because Lunar was pretty spot on for the character in my campaign.

Actually Death Ward is pretty good on a Sorcerer because Extended Spell exists, you could cast the spell before a long rest and still get the benefits for the next day.

15:30 I think its a great feature. In that it's a well balanced feature. It's about the same powerlevel as the buffed acidsplash Alchemists get, maybe slightly weaker bit it's a better damage type and artificers get very few cantrip choices while the sorcerer get tons and this is free.

see, this is what the the sorcerer SHOULD have been at the start, minus the constant free use spells. every sorcerer subclass needs an update to bring it inline with how strong the aberrant mind sorcerer is.

Hi! I know you don't really like blasters. But how would you optimise a blaster ?

Actually, I think Draconic sorcerer and Storm Sorcerer are both about on par with or better than this in a lot of circumstances, albeit with a much worse capstone for the draconic sorcerer (though most campaigns aren't getting to level 18 anyway). They both have some very useful features for helping to survive and deal some additional damage, and the spell list for Lunar sorcerers doesn't contain enough important spells that missing out is real issue. Really, the main standout feature for the Lunar sorcerer, which I really think you undersold in the video, is the reduced meta-magic costs at 6th level, which can be pretty powerful with some necromancy, enchantment, and transmutation spells, like blight, disintegrate, hold/dominate monster/person, and area effect spells. Being able to twin spell for 1 less sorcery point can be very relevant for single target spells, and free empowered spell is particularly good for spells that involve large dice/large numbers of dice in their damage rolls; it'll often net 5+ extra damage on spells. You could also always twin cast/careful spell + empower single target 1st level spells and cantrips of your current phase schools (mainly enchantment, necromancy, or transmutation), since the cost is reduced to 0. Empower spell in particular is good with the feature, since it can be done alongside other metamagic, letting you net save a sorcery point even after spending one to switch phases. With Quicken spell, you could actually save 4 sorcery points in a single turn with 2x empower spell + quicken spell + twin spell or careful spell. Granted, evocation magic being the school left out does mean you miss out on some of the best damage spells like fireball/lightning bolt. Being able to always twin cast + empower chill touch/mind sliver at no cost does result in some pretty good cantrip output, and you could quicken+empower chill touch/mind sliver and twin + empower the same cantrip again for only a single metamagic point, which is effectively 3 chill touches or mind slivers per round.

I had assumed you had to pick from one of three to get at level one after a long rest. All fifteen is crazy

Agree with this great assessment, where's moon beam? I do think if you get Silvery Barbs as is, Aberrant mind is the best Sorcerer from L6-L13, and at L6 exactly Shadow Sorc better than Clockwork Soul and maybe Aberrant mind with SB too.

I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment. A lot of ado about nothing. It's a good subclass, but nothing worthy of a ban. - The Innkeeper

I think I would have rated this subclass slightly lower than you did, clearly not in league with the Tasha's ones but better than any others, I think that might be because trap features like waxing and waning get on my nerves because I have to see the disappointment from my players when they realize that thing isn't as cool as they thought it would be. I agree with all the points here though. Thanks for being a reasonable voice. 👍