The M1 Garand's Mysterious 7th Round Stoppage 

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Ahh, yes, life.

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@@mike-uj3uu i hate this, just a single fucking ";" and you're screwed (ofcourse if you're working in visual studio or something smart like that, it is no longer a problem)

@@weth3844 cnc

exactly my thoughts

Choked on my coffee a little 😆 Thanks. I needed that.

Left right left!

But it was thinking left

You're a funny guy, Sully.

I was browsing the comments while watching the video and he said this at the exact same time as I read this comment

With the end of the government-owned arsenals, the military just sends out specifications to private manufacturers, so it's on the manufacturer to figure out how to make the weapon to specification. The military just keeps the specs... Except it probably works the opposite way just as much or more -- a manufacturer develops the product, then sells it to the military to fill some perceived need...

Ian actually had video a few years ago about the history of Springfield which talked about this event, just search it in the channel and it should be there

Military industrial complex in action. More profit if you own the design.

@@AndrewAMartin It absolutely does happen that way oddly frequently, companies offer all sorts of whacky stuff in competitions, sometimes not even meeting all of the requirements. Especially with vehicles

Except that in machinist terms that "tiny change" was actually a pretty large deviation from the blueprints. That looks like a solid 5 to 6 millimeters of error when machinists usually dabble in hundredths and tenths of a millimeter.

They also work in "Engineer dumb, me smart, me make easy"

Engineering is "make complicated things easy using math" machining is" what! Why wise glasses man bring funny blue paper"

If your impressions of tradesmen is engineer > tradesmen, I’d like to remind you that no amount of paper and math will make parts from designs. Also many ingenious things have come from regular guys with a knack for mechanisms. TLDR: respect where respect is due.

That's why I live by it. "Small things cause big problems."

Julian yes.

Julian: "Okay brother dearest, I won't. . . . 'Dear diary, today my big brother fixed a f*ck up at the factory.'"

@@silentscorn5072 JULIAN ALWAYS YES!!!

After it's adopted, please? Sure.

Julian: No, you cant just write about it. Brother: Lmao printer go brrrrrrrrrrrrr

Stealing this.

Underrated comment.

Gold

Communicate like a truly intelligent gentlemen of moral character, not some ignorant disgusting street thug.

@@bldlightpainting who was speaking like a street thug? I've seen print designers speak like this all the time growing up with a Grampa in industrial IT.

Othias can't Ian

War were declared?

From Eibar Spain Knock-off Blue "Patented Plastic Pokeys".

And so it was that the Great Patented Plastic Pokey War began...

@@josiahgibson6373 War were declared.

I think Disney has a patent on that word.

Disney has a trademark on that word.

@@MrEazyE357 Huh, I'd never heard that before. I just thought that a coworker made that up!

The Engineer's Poem: myjeeprocks.com/forums/forum/kick-the-can/jeep-jokes-trivia/23731-a-designers-poem

If the engineer was able to build a fully functional prototype, and give tooling specs, then the machinist should be able to refine the building process.

Next to last.

I've seen this seventh-round stoppage. It was at a W.W.II reenactment, an American GI reenactor was blazing away (blank ammo of course) at the "Germans", When his M1 Garand stopped firing on the seventh round. I wasn't counting the shots, but I saw no empty clip eject. He just hunkered down and cleared the stoppage. Good thing that it wasn't real combat.

I made a meme about this thanks to you

Imagine the disappointment of the German patiently waiting for the ping to jump out and shoot you, but the ping never comes.

@@liger7275 "Hans, where is ze ping sound? Are they out of ammo?!"

Making the machinist care about what he's doing is the real fight ~me, a machinist

Usually in this discussion there will be a fallback to "It works in CAD."

@@riograndedosulball248 So true, there are only so many fucks a machinist can give in a day. Better be sure you don't waste those fucks on stupid stuff.

Tuning3434 Never a truer word were spoke .

@@ShadrachVS1 I work as an engineer in a R&D group. Our designers fall back on that everytime they order prototype parts that don't fit. "It looked fine in Catia" is a running joke within our test and evaluation group.

I've been hearing statement for years from my wife. The cause: programmers being too lazy to document every change they make. So things go wrong and nobody knows why plus nobody knows who caused it. So lazy/incompetent programmers can slide by a long time before they're caught and canned.

@@LuvBorderCollies This often comes down to allotted time. I'll happily document my code, but if they ain't paying for the time it takes to do so, then that documentation won't exist. it's not laziness, It's an unwillingness to work for free. If the customer want tests and documentation, then they got to pay for it. The time asked for this is right there in the frigging estimate. but for some reason, sales and customers seem to always agree on that time not being necessary to spend in order to save on costs. They always keep asking: "why do you need to spend so much time on this? it's just a small change". (Pointy haired boss voice for flavour) "No I cant just add another key to the database boss, It requires us to migrate all the existing data to account for that new frigging key". "I want 5 hours for the change, and 30 for migrating the existing data and testing that everything else using that same data still works as intended. (hint: It wont), "and another 5 to fix the documentation because the last change we made was undocumented because we didn't get any time for it".

yep one wrong or missing bracket or other character can make a huge diffrence.

Nup. This is telling the people of doing the demo to follow the script TO THE LETTER.

Have you ever done any actual machining? I think every engineer should have to have real hands on experience before they're ever even allowed near a T-square, lol! ;-)

@@billd.iniowa2263 at that time the closest I'd been to machining was Lego technics and some plastic modeling... which is to say at the time I had no applicable practical experience

@@zachelkins1229 Well, everyone has to start somewhere. I take it you now have had some machine-time? Has it helped in your engineering career?

@@billd.iniowa2263 Some, but in my case they both ended up being "a path not taken" though I often wonder what could have been. Still in any future engineering projects I might under take the experience would, I think, make the endeavor if not more successful much more practical and likely to be successful.

@@zachelkins1229 I'm sure it will. Good luck to you then. I know about the path not taken. Or in some cases, the path denied. Ah well, thats life isnt it.

You should have called it "patented plastic pokey" tho , its mandatory

@@alvianthehollowed8997 hoooo that's the pokey thing... now I can understand those other comments, thanks!

@@enjibkk6850 That means you've never watched an episode of C&Rsenal... I highly recommend it.

@@enjibkk6850 OTHIAS IS UPSET!!!

That's a must when dealing with a Garand. 😁

All to true. Or switching an operator (person) and the new perp is weaker so they bend an existing part for their ease of access. Then the downstream guy writes engineering up for the defect.

@@brucewelty7684 that's my favorite... Manufacturing defects that get assigned to design. 🤦‍♂️

We had a supplier that completely ignored weld callouts on a drawing. Skip welds where there were normal welds, welds where there weren't any, and just no welds where there were supposed to be some...

@@AdamantLightLP ha! Choose your own adventure welding!

I read that they still have blueprints for the Saturn V rockets. Though, they doubt if they built one, it would operate since all the fellows that iron out bugs are all gone on.

Machining is all about numbers. A specific length, a specific width, and a specific height. Each one to a specific tolerance. And if you stack those tolerances up too many times you get garbage.

@@billd.iniowa2263 That's part of my daily work. Stamping tool. Have 3 or 4 parts, each with a +/- 0.01mm tolerance stacked, then give me up to 3 - what's the english term for it? calibrating washer? tuning disc? basicaly a flat plate of metall (usually hardend steel) to put under a die or a punch to get them to the right hight - in 0.2mm increments, - also with a +/- 0.01mm tolerance ofc - and tell me to calibrate the final hight of the die or punch to within +/- 0.02mm ... Luckily, often you don't need such fine tolerances as the documentation states...

@@Bird_Dog00 I guess we'd call those shims. But finely ground!

@@kenbrown2808 Yes, good robust designs are not what the computer tells you 'just works', but it allows margin for the 'f***-up factor' nobody ever bothers to think about it cause it 'never happens'. Then suddenly it starts mattering if it's a Monday, or the postal services took a certain route because statistics and normal distributions start to work against you. You never want to make your design that critical, cause you end up in a the real world where certainty is a fluid concept, and it is extremely time-consuming and costly to explore that fluidity.

@@Bird_Dog00 "shim" is the word we use in English for a piece like that. Might even call it a "shim washer"

As a process engineer, I can guarantee we're not always any more sure of what we're doing than other people - we're just better at hiding it. I have literally used the sentence 'You already tried increasing the polyacrylic acid, and it didn't work? Drop it then, and see if that does the trick.' More than once. Educated guesswork is a wonderful thing, and sometimes despite our best efforts processes are... more art than science. Yes, solvent extraction, I'm talking about you...

Also why machinist want to murder them when what they want can't feasibly be done. Reality is it takes a group of brilliant specialist to 'invent' something special, but the concept/patent designer gets all the swagger.

Senior staff members get high pay for good reason. However, today's managers do not understand. They just want to reduce operation cost and hire cheapest employees they can find.

@@vonskyme9133 fair points, but as I have heard many times before, at different job sites in different industries: "If you have an idea to improve the process, let us know first."

"Scale up" no matter what the product or industry......is a bitch.

I think it was a French PPP. Twas blue, after all...

But it's more different in blue.

It's blue so it obviously doesn't infringe on the patent 😉 IIRC Othias has a greenish yellow pokey.

It works. Ian's actual finger is too big.

Othais gave him a blue one at the beginning of the Q&A that went along with Project Lightening. I wonder if it's the same one.

Just send them to the Wikipedia article on Fogbank (a nuclear weapon component). One thing wasn't documented, took a decade and $200 million to finally reinvent that critical component. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fogbank The last batch of the original was last made in 1989, so they figured they'd upgrade a plastic foam to aerogel. Missed, one step and a contaminant that turned out crucial. Oh well, at least recovering from that mistake was cheap. I'll just get my coat...

I appreciate your work, and the associated mentality. Thank you.

Sorry but your job is redundant. A good engineer can do your job as its part of theirs.

@@challengingyou212 That may seem like a natural perception, but it does not have to be. I agree that an engineer needs to take charge of his own documentation, but, in an organisation where several different components are merged into one product, the role of a supervisor and project manager can do wonders. Yes, the engineers should work as one, but that is theory, not practice. And yes, there may be many cases that prove the point that this theory actually works, but it isn't always so.

@@Guido_XL i just think we disagree. I've worked on too much shoddily engineered crap from both local and international corprate engineers and they rarely think about the whole picture thus making anything they designed extremely difficult to do any maintenance or parts replacement.

Probably got a nice letter from the boss. Money? You expect them to give him money?

@@JohnHughesChampigny back then hell yea

Maybe a better quality gold watch at retirement and a case of good Scotch at the time?

@@deezboyeed6764 they didn't pay the guy who invented the rifle a penny, you expect a guy who did some troubleshooting to make bank?

@@Gotterdammerung05 Make bank no, little bonus sure. rest of the world would.

This, this is why the internet is good.

That's basically engineering

That stoppage totally sounded like when me and the boys get a weird bug report

Engineering is like: We fixed every way the device could go wrong, so now it works.

@@nielsieboy124 : And it's why the old fad of hiring programmers to implement something designed in a modeling language isn't as talked about anymore- it's paying engineers (even if the budget end...) to do a drafter's job.

I don't know how you could have been expected to have held a gun seeing as how you live in a world with 13th Century levels of technology.

In most of Ian's videos, when he does a field strip & assembly, you can learn alot from a novice standpoint. Somewhat better than old print magazines back in the day.

@@joekurtz8303 Yeah I know. That's one of the things I like actually. I'm a theoretical physicist, but looking at engineering problems gives me a nice change of scenery. I like to listen to Ian's videos to unwind. Nothing like a practical problem after a bunch of very theoretical ones in the day.

Here’s hoping you find a friend who can take you out to a range for some shooting. Some of my best range trips have involved getting a few science and history teachers together. Years ago I shot w some Kaiser Steel guys who could talk your ear off about steel production.

@Christie Malry Exactly right. I try to vary my activities to avoid getting locked down the same trains of thought for that very reason.

😅

the hand of gun Jesus ?

@CipiRipi00 Hilarious, Clip! In fact, I worked with some very brainy, knowledgeable architects who seemed to understand as much about my skill set as I probably did about theirs. It made for some fun jobs.

Another americanism "standards why whould we use that"

@@Zretgul_timerunner The standards didn't exist when this problem happened. In fact problems like this during the war are why the standards were made.

@@foobar1979 yet america refuses to follow international measurements to name a few so no again you still refuse to change also (quick quip there existed standards long prior to ww2) very long prior to the creation of the garand.

@@Zretgul_timerunner It appears you don’t like America too much

@@Benjy52 I dont like people lying about history. And to this day the us which signs all the standards more often then not doesnt end up follow them creating issues for those of us who hafto deal with their nonsense

I agree! I used to do a lot of metal fabrication and welding work, and all of my department's customers were right around the corner from my shop. Any issues with the drawings or the concept could be resolved in a few minutes, most days.

That must have been part of the magic of the early skunks work....engineers next to machinest

@@earlyriser8998 and engineers that were machinists

I am the in house. I fix these issues regularly. But most of our parts are outsourced.

Better yet, the person who drew the plans should also be able to set up the machining. Training your engineers the basics of machining is key to a successful production run - which is why it is mandatory to work on a shop floor during university where I study. If you know the pain of making a internal features to tolerance on a lathe, you'll reconsider your design to see if it is actually really necessary to have it.

Yeaaah you can’t hear that shit in a fire fight

@@1970bosshemi Sure, but never let facts get in the way of a good joke.

@@1970bosshemi it's true, my granddad told stories about how he and obama were in the middle of a battle in ww2 and his rifle went ping and all of the germans stopped shooting and walked over to point and laugh

@@ENCHANTMEN_, can confirm, my great grandson was there, he was the German who pointed first, then laughed last and loudest.

@Christie Malry my Japanese nephew was there as well on the ensuing banzai charge

My bad it was Blythes gun could just be a coincidental jam tho. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-FWpjD711g5M.html

That looked like a stovepipe.

They were using blanks which are less reliable. I believe there were a lot of stoppages on that episode. I think its because they had the wrong ammo/guns were under gassed or something.

The 7th round jam Ian discusses in this video is a jam that occurred upon the action trying to load the 7th round into the chamber. In that video from Band of Brothers, the rifle jams right AFTER firing the 7th round. So it's not the same problem. It looks more like failure to eject, etc.

Here's an easy one to see- 2:07, Winters is getting ready to do some shooting...uh oh.... ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-WGX_zuhyU04.html&lc=UgyC0wrDigqDj_B5xV94AaABAg

Yep been there, except in my case it was 10off holes on a 1" pitch along the length of a 7" part. Drawing office manager was kind of amused by it. Not drawn there, some other office, somewhere.

Ah, the good old non-euclidean engineering

Would drifting the hole work? Thereby making the bar go around the hole that is too wide for it?

@@ckl9390 that's called a larger diameter part with a hole in it

This doesn't apply to this at all.

They'll see the big board!

"Everyone thinks we're using lies and trickery. Lie to and trick them!"

Thats a good one

ok

Othias is gonna have a field day...lol

Gun Moses lol that's a good one

Ah yes, there is nothing like a soldier to come up with a new way to criticize new ideas. In 1970 when we got our M-16's for training, every one used to say "It's MATEL! It's SWELL!" Made more sense if you grew up in the 60's and watched Saturday Morning Cartoons!

An engineer that listens to a machinist or mechanic? Those things exist?

I know engineers I wouldn't trust with power tools, best to let them keep banging on their keyboards.

yes, as a young mfg engineer I constantly talked to the machine operator and lisened to them. got in trouble from my boss for it. "those guys do not know anything! you are the engineer"

It's the circle of LIIIIFE

@@MrKronikDeception and why we in Denmark have a education for craftsmen to be a link between the 2

Ah yes. I came across this once. I had to approve and release a drawing and, being a physicist, I have no bloomin’ idea about technical drawings, but anyway. So I give this drawing a once over, look, … look again and say: “I may be wrong, but it looks as if there is no way you can get a spanner on this nut here.” Oops!

Layout pattern maker metal trades. Same problem here.

Does this mean that MC Escher was an engineer??!

Not to mention he killed the sr71, all it’s variants and had all the tooling destroyed 😭

The same expertise that deliberately sabotaged the M16 trials because "mUh wOoD aNd iRoN"

I’m sure that workforce never worked another day in their life at some private company, right?

MacNamara had a bad case of Mike Martz Disease (the former Rams coach about whom ESPN's Tom Jackson said "he's the worst kind of idiot. An idiot who thinks he's a genius.")

@@509Gman They found work, of course, but most not in the firearms industry and, anyway, what was lost was the critical mass of experience and knowledge that existed at Springfield

My guess is they pre-loaded all the clips and painted an arrow to indicate which end goes in.

@@wasdwazd what I mean is that if you pre-load a clip so the top round is on the left, it doesn't matter which way you insert it. No matter which side is up, the top round is on the left.

@@zstewart Ah shit I misread what you said and I was visualizing it all wrong. Sorry, I'm totally sleep deprived.

There really should be an alternative to the Genus edition, the Guns edition.

@@jubuttib I'd buy 5!!!

@@germaxicus6670 I mean it could work quite well. Wouldn't even really have to change categories much. Blue, geography: Questions related to specific gun geographies, like Chinese mystery pistols, Khyber Pass guns, weapons used in Africa, etc. Pink, Entertainment: Movie guns and weaponry Yellow, history: Historical weapon developments, milestones, historical figures, historical debacles (like the M-16 powder change) Brown, arts and literature: Weapons as expression and art, inlays, engravings, etc. Green, science & nature: Questions about the mechanics and physics (and chemistry) of weapons Orange, Sports & Leisure: Sporting firearms and shooting sports related questions

jubuttib Hell yeah! Another project for Ian wot!

@@jubuttib that would be awesome! We need funding for this!

I have a marlin 81 that would not feed into the chamber properly. I thought it was faulty chamber at first. Then then I looked at slow motion. Turns out it was the cartridge lifter. After it picked up the cartridge from the magazine tube, the timing got screwed up and the cartridge lifter stalled partway up after the bolt grabbed the cartridge to push forward. I took the cartridge lifter out, used 800 grit sandpaper to smooth out rough edges then 1000 to 2000 grit then the cloth wheel on the dremel. Put everything back back on. It worked.

Liten tuva välter stort lass. ❤️❤️

Indonesia have a similar saying too; kabeureuyan mah ku cucuk lauk, moal ku tulang domba. Literally means: It is fish bone that often got stuck in your throat, not a sheep bone. You can give it a literal translation too.

Somewhat literal translation: "Often a little bump (as in a bump in the road) can tip over a heavy load"

Yup. The devil is in the details

I’m heading out today to visit Iceland! I’ll try to use this phrase while I’m there

Works the same way in electronics. If the wiremen "know" the drawing is "wrong" and automatically "correct" it... then that "correction" is corrected in testing out of habit. When a new Engineer comes along and says "Hey, this symbol is stupid and doesn't mean what you're saying it means and there's no tracking or explanation" and starts using the CORRECT symbol, with explanatory notes, it fouls up the whole system. THAT Engineer then gets blamed for an institutionalized error and canned.

There's a famous example of this in architecture. The builder changed some support rods from a single long rod to individual smaller rods that were cheaper and easier to install. At first glance it looked like it would work in the exact same way but in actuality, it meant that the entire load of the structure was on a single nut and washer that with the original design would have only seen a quarter of the load. As soon as the building opened and filled with people, it collapsed and many were killed and injured.

@@wingracer1614 Sounds like the Hyatt Regency walkway collapse (although there the nut "only" held twice the designed load).

@@tz8785 Yeah I think that was it. I could be wrong about the amount of load.

@@wingracer1614 Oh yes, that is a horrible design adaption that would give any engineer nightmares. How do ensure contractors don't try to be smarter than they really are in their quest to bid even more cheaply? Stuff like this must happen every single moment, and we can only pray there are no consequences to it.

@@wingracer1614 well, maybe our event was a little bit less severe and did not ruin several thousand lives. It was just annoyingly expensive...

AKA "The devil is in the details."

Sounds like an absolute banger

SRS. Seventh Round Stoppage.

@@wingracer1614 wasn’t that a Mike Tyson fight? ;-)

@@wingracer1614 His version for a Metalcore band, yours for a Nu Metal band.

@@c1ph3rpunk Nobody made it to the seventh round against Tyson in his prime unless they were running like Sir Robin for the first six.

There shouldn't be any with that rail damaged. But you're right about wanting to check it.

I know I will be

Y'all stand over here with us blacksmiths. You're "obsolescence" is still needed in certain circumstances.

Journeyman toolmaker AND professional farrier here. If I cant fabricate it or machine it, I'll smash it till it fits.

@@kellymouton7242 100% how it works

My dad was an apprentice tool maker in WW2. Made zippers for the Allies bomber crew fleece jackets.

@@kellymouton7242 That’s sort of related to the mechanic’s axiom of “beat it to fit, paint it to match.”

I believe Ian found three English and one French plastic pokey sticks that predate Othias's patent, and had his polymers toolroom build replicas so as to guarantee he'd win the useage rights.

@@daniellewis1789 👏 a round of applause for Daniel Lewis for winning this video's comment section.

Maybe the cut accidentally went too deep and your guide rib isn't proud enough.

Yes so do I see no. 326,000..Nov .of 1941 .

Could it have worn down over time?

@@zefallafez I've heard other worn parts could cause it also .

I'm going to try a new follower .The one I have seems pretty loose .

Still has a chromed barrel rifling and America just got the Asian loaners back, so they can be a good option for the public.

7 rounds semiautomatic, 1 round manual. Mathematically it's a seven-sixteenth-automatic rifle....

I’m so late the Garand is blaster

@@Darilon12 so it isn't fully sem-automatic😆?

@@slowpoke3864 unfortunately, we will never be allowed to get them or the 1911s that are now either rotting or being shredded as we wait...

it appears thay you found it so interesting that it sounded like sarcasm

@@LuizDahoraavida haha, no this was genuine interest.

Untill some Germans showed up...

@@ulissedazante5748 well yes, but then if you are going to use quality materials and stringent building regulations backed up by expert quality control, you can get anything work.

You'd better pray that they don't get the HR1 bill under President Potatohead's pen, or we'll never have a clean election again. As it is, you can bet that the communists pulling Biden's strings aren't going to let the CMP take receipt of any more returned M1s from former MAK recipients. It's going to be a loooong 4 years... With any luck, we'll get a real president again in 2024, and you may get another chance at one.

@@nunyabidniz2868 this guy still thinks clean elections exist lol

So sorry to hear that .

Why is that? Do you get a lot of undocumented changes in software too?

@@MrNicoJac In an ideal world the components adhere to their "contracts" and never do anything that breaks other parts. But like here where the production team did something the other team didn't know about, weird thing happens. And I'm not talking about crashes caused by empty data. More like "it sometimes, for some, crashes on the 7th click".

@@bgezal So, multiple software teams work on their own subparts of the total program, and sometimes that mutual blindness results in weird and unexpected interactions?

@@MrNicoJac you see this sort of thing an the time with video games

@@MrNicoJac Could be. Or one person, doing both ends, doesn't fully realize the future implications of a design or change. My experience is more of debugging my own imperfections, or digging into code I've never been involved in, and less of teamwork.