The MADNESS of Formula E Cars 

I know it is a boring but the overall efficiency hardly depends on how the electricity gets produced which is always factored out in this comparison. However even after that FE remains roughly twice as efficient overall.

Not that insane given the technology, any other number would be odd. Your average road going transmission may be 99-98% eficcient, if you add another 99-98% for the electric part you get that 96%. Its the combustion part with its thermodynamics what limits you in other motorsports

That is insane

Unfortunately the power being sent from where it's generated is subject to between 60-70% energy loss to heat over high tension wires, so the efficiency comparison to gasoline isn't as good as they're making out here. Thermodynamics charges a toll no matter what you do.

@@mawnkey I don't know where you're getting 60-70% but that's way too high. If you're talking about transmission and distribution losses from power plants then it's at most like 17%, usually lower. If you're talking about resistive losses in the car then it's completely negligible.

wait till 2026 where f1 will become f2. Honestly f1 is going to fall off at some point with the fia trying to control it and becoming more greedy with money

No it ain't. Formula E is Formula FAIL.

yeap F1, where it's more interesting off track than on track

Just need Indycar to sort itself out

@@dangermouse3619 Funny that F1 failed to produce any sort of exiting race from the last decade. Really think which formula is the real formula FAIL

It sounds like such a brag you'd hear them talking about over a drink. Formula 1, Le Mans and Formula E are in the pub. Formula 1: "During a race I change all four tyres in two to three seconds flat." Le Mans: "Oh yeah? During _my_ races I change my entire driver." Formula E: _"Guys you're not going to believe this"_

Imagine in the future they could add inductive charging to the cars and do recharging strips like F-Zero. Have a section of the straights out of the usual racing line as the recharging spot, so the drivers have to make a choice of recharging or taking the racing line.

@@EversonBernardesthat sounds awesome. I wonder if inductive charging is feasible at that power level or would run into engineering problems.

@@techman8817 I don't think the tech we currently have is good enough to do any meaningful amount of recharging, but I I feel that would be a worthwhile pursuit because it would be largely applicable for EVs in the real world.

@@EversonBernardes Or throw some brushes underneath, and add some electrified strips on the straights, slot car style 😄

@@bakedbeings make it spark as the cars go through it and I'm sold!

Mainly because they're so dull to watch.

@@spent808 Straight up untrue. Way more exciting than F1.

we already have electric cars with 1200hp+ on the road

@@skive_1888 I didn't compare it F1.

​@@spent808the thrill of watching people race their battery packs. With the incoming thrill of charging stops!!!

it is difficult to overtake in Monaco in F1 but in FE there are masses of overtaking

Good day to be a jaguar fan

Man I‘d love to go to Monaco someday day in my life! It’s just so darn expensive..

@@Very_Grumpy_Cat Certainly helps that the cars aren't about as large as a Leopard 2.

@@_mevt.33 yes Jaguar was the best during this race

Yup, 1litre of gasoline is about 10kWh

But if you compare the usable amount of energy you need 20 liters of fuel since 80% of the energy in petrol is just getting turned into heat.

@@grogery1570 F1 gets much closer to the carnot ideal efficiency with the MGU-H and IIRC they get to about 40%

@@gramathy999too bad the MGU-H is going bye bye in 2026 😂

​@@jesperhammarlund300wth is happening over there?

Comparing capacity (Ah) with Current (A) considering the C Rates or Power (kW) with Energy (kWh) is exactly the same :)

So C-rate is useless by itself. To have any use you would need to have the battery capacity information, and this is just useful because it helps calculate charging power. With this I mean that the only relevant information in this case is charging power.

​@@Elbombisimanot really, because the bottleneck for recharging is the battery. Its easy enough to build outside chargers that can supply several 10s of kW, you'll find them on all electric car superchargers. The main issue is how fast you can put this energy in to a battery without breaking it, so the C rate tells you exactly how long it takes to recharge without needing to know how much actual energy you need - which is all that matters for E racing in general.

@@Elbombisima It's not useless at all by itself lol. It's a measure of the capacity in comparison to the maximum charge current. It gives you a rough idea of how long it will take to charge

I have studied electronic and computer science in University. That's all I can say

"from"..... so how much was it?

@@rockfan3299 30 euro. It is around 32$.

@@rockfan3299 better stands like A or K1 for 45 EUR, worse stands for 30 EUR, there were no inbetween

@@krystofblacha4619 the problem with F1 is they know people will pay their costs. Formula E sounds a bargain compared to it then :)

The size of the current F1 cars is the Achilles heel - there's just so few places that can allow for 2(+) wide racing - so it's difficult to pass. Monaco is just a parade these days...

Same thing being done on road cars like Porsches with 800 V wiring.

Uh. In the video he very clearly shows that Gen 3 is moving to dual motor.

@@tylerpubben4216 , no the rear drivetrain is still limited to only a single motor, as I said, several years ago Nissan actually scared the entire field by introducing a dual motor, rear drivetrain. It was such a shock that the FIA quickly banned it the next year. This was innovation which was quickly stifled and shouldn’t have been.

​@@zippyspeedmonkeyindividual motor design allows for some sort of active diff, this will pretty much makes the development more about the software, and this will just be a part of car setting for each track and weather condition, basically the same reason why active suspension is banned from F1, they're just too complicated for no reason and nobody wants to pack more job in the same amount of time available, kinda like modern video games devs relied too much on new hardware power that they just didn't make their game run decent on a 4 years old hardware

@@zippyspeedmonkey the second Nissan's motor was used only as generator, complaining to the rules at the time. They basically implemented gen 3 dual motor solution, but on the same drivetrain instead of splitting in rear and front. Thus, nothing fancy or so innovative

i mean it's literally the same as if an F1 team would have had Two V6 engines side by side (assuming they could fit ofc) so yeah nothing really "innovative" in fact they were stalling innovation. cus instead of making a more efficient single motor they just went the "easy" approach and made dual motors to split the power between them. and in fact it was not all good cus the cars were very heavy. so the nissan cars were sliding at the back quite alot out of corners.

maybe in around 5 years, once the battery manufacturing process yields more power dense and reliable cells i'd like for the teams to come up with some cool motor noise, cuz it's gonna be boring watching a ghost zooming in the mulsanne straight. but still, i'm eager to see that

@@itsdokko2990 Nah, I don't want any noise that isn't inherent to the type of technology being used. That's what makes it unique. That's why we love the V10's in the 1st place.

Is not people that hate electric cars, is internet trolls, that have no clue about reality. Mostly these will be underage, lacking any knowl;edge of the real world and just typing out their opinions from no knowledge. And there you have hate, opinions of ignorants.

The inmotion Revolution, a fully electric car based on a Ginetta G58 was once rumoured to be the Garage 56 entry for the 2023 Le mans race. We ended up with the Nascar though, and I have no clue how inmotion is doing rn. Their car was expected to run laptimes comparable to LMP2, but an overall pace comparable to GTE due to the longer pit stops

@@bassmunk exactly, those artificial stuff... Adding something on top because people are used to is one of the worst enemy of progress

but its also made from normal materials like alu and such, not almost exclusively carbon and titanium. also, the whole powertrain parts are stress members (like the v6 in f1) and that also lends itself to a lighter car

The battery outputs 800V, the car is much lighter and they don't need a lot of range since the races are not longer than 120km though this could change as the average speed will probably be higher.

And this is still one major draw-back of electric Vehicles... The Electric storage is just soooo heavy. The further you want go, the larger and thus the heaver your battery pack needs to be... All adding up to making the vehicle less and less efficient for every stone of weight added. I think the philosophy of ultimately replacing ICE cars with E.V.s, is the wrong way of approaching this. Instead of aiming to replace ICE cars, the focus should rather be to AUGMENT people's existing ICE investments... I.e. E.V's should rather act as an extra car to be the City run-a-bout, instead of aiming to replace the Family SUV! If you think about it, it could make sense! Using a small E.V. as your daily for the school run and around town, thereby saving precious Kilometers on your Family SUV. The Family SUV would then only be used over Weekends and Family trips. E.V's. that don't require 200-300 miles of range and are fine with just 50-60 miles of range, will be much lighter, more efficient and a lot cheaper than these super heavy, luxury SUV's which hardly anyone can afford and are a pain to charge-up while on a road-trip. A small, light City E.V. can easily be charged up over night at home, cost's virtually nothing on maintenance AND saves gallons of fuel, as it causes your SUV to put on a lot less miles at the same time, therefore extending the periods of having to visit the service station. Obviously this does not make sense for everyone, but the average family, who likes to go on weekend trips and really benefits from owning an SUV for that purpose, could also benefit by not having that same heavy vehicle accumulate costly miles by also serving as the daily driver.

@@schlix101 Some car brands here in France offer or rent at a very attractive price the use of an ICE car to go on vacation which could be a part of the solution.

They used to have more. Gen 2 had a 50kwh battery from what I remember. They cut it down because the increased regen let them, so they could save some weight. They're increasing it again in gen 4 though

All racing series are available for free with the Torque Lite add on with Kodi. I've been watching all sessions of F1/2/3/E, Indycar, Australian Supercars, MotoGP....everything imaginable....for years now.

@@renesonse5794how cool!

​@@renesonse5794 thats definitely illegal.

@@jamesoshea580 ok

yeah we need FETV asap. similar to F1TV app. that would help draw fans. cus there is still TV rights problems. people have said they would love to watch FE but they can't cus there is no tv channel. so they have to use a VPN which is costly. its much better todsy than 5-7 years ago when FE was very new. but they still need to improve it.

It was so much more accessible on RU-vid. They definitely lost viewers this year, me being one of them

I mean yes and no. Looking back it seems fun and interesting, but back then everyone was just laughing at how the cars couldn't even complete an hour long race.

Let's introduce a 4 hour endurance race! With two cars, requiring swapping and charging.

Imagine if you forgot the keys for the second car.....

So are electric motors

Four tracks this season. The fifth one is announced to be in calendar since 2026 or 2027.

good thing that is gone now

No music = No soul Simple

I think if you're an engineer designing these cars, you probably know better than to listen to the opinion of the average RU-vid commenter... They know that what they're creating is something special.

if people want soul, they should stick to horse.

​@@mro9466gotta show me that Aretha Franklin part in an F1 car.

@@divingradish that's a good one

I don’t think it’s happening

completely forgot about it already lmao

Leaving this comment so I get notified if anyone knows anything

​@@zackr.7628 same here

@@zackr.7628same

how do you know?

Only two words for that; graphene nanofluids. They basically help to cool the battery by about 5-7 degrees Celsius cooler, enabling a considerably higher C rate; about 20C, or even 30C give or take. Such benefits aren't merely confined to the battery either, they can also be applied to the motors that power the Formula E car, along with the electronics that manage such power.

@@szaszm_ Because I'm a thermal engineer working on battery packs.

@@Iamwolf134 I believe they use immersive cooling system. Which is good for racing application as the pack longevity is not important.

Agreed but i just watch the free stuff on their RU-vid

Yeah it’s insanely expensive

Will a VPN work? Maybe I should watch a video about it since I’m here…

@@JoshuaC923 have you guys not heard about lord latifi streams

@@whiteknob7944 just watch the race live on lord latifi streams

Added complexity and weight to get a little more energy back to a component that's not even the main part of the power delivery system?

The teams apparently voted against it because they feared Audi would be better than them in this area.

@@lewis8552 no one ever lol

F1's racing quality went out the door when they added anything beyond the KERS system. Cars are way too big and heavy which limits side-by-side opportunities and requires much larger and more durable tyres which tossed out much of the skill required and variability of race results. 2013 was the last year of non-hybrids and while it was a bit of a sweeper season all the V8 season prior were much higher quality in terms of racing, unpredictable results, on-track action etc. It's not a coincidence. Everyone blames over-complex aero but thats a side effect of car development we will see regardless of regs. NA, Turbo, V6, V10, Hybrid, non-hybrid etc. What makes F-E excellent doesn't translate to F1.

I think they should switch to a layout similar to what LMP1H had, with the MGU-K doing both regen and deployment to the front wheels. That way ERS wouldn't be so traction locked, and instead of just a high-speed boost it could also be used at lower speeds

Serious motorsport is very much a commercial business if you ask me(?)

You think F1 isn't a massive commercial business?

I personally couldn't care less about WEC since I despise things like BOP which punish you for smart engineering.

first one in 1798 or 1806, and even though it ran on a gaseous fuel, it still had a shaft with a reciprocating piston that was vented with an exhaust and intake valve. Since a 'few' can mean two or more, his statement checks out.

@@jamesr1894 a few usually means more than two! "a couple of years" then "a few years" so a poor choice of words.

And the boring small street tracks, and the lack of sound, lack of grip with those eco tired.. ect.

I think the current cars sound like a cross between a jet engine and a tube train, which I rather like. But if they could figure out a way to make them sound like a V10, they'd attract a lot of fans!

audi R18

Have the tubes round the battery and pump in liquid nitrogen while fast charging, all done in the pits, with such low temperatures it could be charged at ridiculously fast rates, would this work?.

Yes

Boring EVs...⚡🔋🤢🤮🤮🤮🥱😴😴😴😴

F1 is boring so is Formule E battery fire

the sound on tv does not do them justice. they sound straight like a fighter jet when they pass you at 300kph

I'm the total opposite, I love the sound of FE cars, both on TV and in person. In fact, being an FE fan has led to me disliking he sound of ICE powered racing cars

Tbh yeah it does to me. That's pretty much the only real downside of FE to me. Shame it's a big one because the races themselves look like what you get when you put really good drivers on oversized, incredibly powerful Go Karts And that stuff looks insanely fun. I'd love to drive an FE. Well, any open cockpit single seater as a whole, but FEs seem more feasible than even an old F1

I think they sound like a cross between a jet fighter and a tube train, and I like them. I'm not going to lie, though, if they could find a way to make them sound like V10s, they'd be on to a winner!

@@lostcarpark all I hear is high pitched whining. Probably sounds much better on person

You realise your efficiency argument is also the same for petrol right? All the effort to get crude oil out of the ground and then turn in into petrol isn't efficient either

Are you seriously arguing against electric vehicles by saying that combustion engines are inefficient?

Also KW to HP begs the question "How/to what?" as Batteries in a land vehicle don't generate trust kinda like saying LPH to MS... It's really a nonsensically statement.

Even with your, admittedly pessimistic, numbers EVs would have an efficiency of around 28%, and much higher than that when using wind or solar. Compare that to the efficiency of an average petrol engine with about 20%, even without accounting for the production of the petrol, etc.

@@Alucard-gt1zf You still need to get the petrol to charge the batteries.

True, a spec series and cookie cutter tracks makes for a very boring watch. It would be 10 times more exciting if they raced on traditional circuits. But they can't because of the battery capacity.

@@rakesh.a.cyou haven’t watched races have you

​@@nightavenger375I watched like 20 races live since 2021 and follow the series through highlights. I genuinely tried to give it a shot but track layouts are a deal breaker for me.

I think they would hit a thermal limit way sooner than that. But it still is an impressive reminder of how far battery tech has advanced over the past few years. 12C charging will be insane when it comes to road cars.

@@matejlieskovsky9625 if its affordable to bring to the road, those chargers are expensive af and have a lot of tech making them work well, so they could be brought to the road and would be more like a “premium” charger and probably pretty expensive to try and recoup costs. But yeah I don’t know the specs lol, so you could very well be correct on the thermal limit