The (Messy) BONAVENTURE Legacy 

15567 - 1594(?) - HMS (Elizabeth) Bonaventure Those darn temporal agents!

Rick...Ushering in a new stellar age of trek analysis!!!!

A fun, if apocryphal story about the HMCS Bonaventure: When I was in university, I hung out with some friends who were military history enthusiasts. One was in fact a history student, and the other was planning on pursuing an RCN career. And they shared with me an anecdote they'd come across in their research.The HMCS Bonaventure, (Possibly the Majestic class you mention in the video, as I seem to remember it was an aircraft carrier, though it could be another ship of the same name) was decommissioned, and sold for scrap. The company that was contracted to tow it overseas ... Kinda... disappeared for an extended period of time. Then, all of a sudden, showed up at the breaking yard, ship in tow as if nothing was out of the ordinary. It was the right class of ship, alright, but there was something off about it. The Bonaventure was known to have undergone a refit, but this was not a refitted aircraft carrier. Now, India had also acquired ships of the same class from the UK, but unlike Canada, had not done any refits, and their ships had began to show their age. Then, all of a sudden, not very long after the Bonaventure's mysterious side quest, one of the Indian naval vessels appeared to have gotten a surprise refit. Some Canadian officials began to put two and two together. At some point, a Canadian dignitary of some kind or other was speaking on the phone with an official in the Indian government, and casually slipped into conversation "So how's the Boaventure doing?" His counterpart replied, "Oh, very good, we're very happy with it". *Awkward pause* *Click* I don't know if the story is true or not, I wasn't the primary researcher who found it in the first place, and I'm going by memory of what I was told some 20 years ago now. And I've come to learn over the years that some of these stories my friends came across back then, maaaaaybe aren't necessarily as, let's say - accurate - as they were lead to believe. So I have no idea of the veracity of the story. Fiction isn't the only thing that has some messy lore. Sometimes real life does too.

Canadian Naval Ships use "HMCS", Her/His Majesty's Canadian Ship, not HCMS. The Bonaventure was also purchased by Canada for it's Navy, not the Army.

My uncle was an Able Seaman (2nd class, I think) on the HMCS Bonaventure (Canadian Aircraft Carrier) He passed away a couple of years ago at 82.

Thanks for covering this!! As a Canadian I am very fond of seeing references to HMCS Bonaventure in fiction, particularly Star Trek :) I realize the name predates the Canadian ship but that's what I think of when I see the name.

I love your delivery of "a new age of interstellar exploration for mankind!" :D

Pretty simple: Scotty saw the name Bonaventure, associated it with Cochrane’s original, but after an all-nighter on the scotch could no longer tell his dish from his nacelle.

My ships in STO is the USS Salisbury Sound. I named it that because its the ship my father served on. it was torpedo seaplane tender.

The thought experiment is called, "The Ship of Theseus" and it comes up now and then with automotive retro mod builders when they install new drivetrains in old cars sans emissions and safety systems, then register them as antiques to get around taxes and regulations.

Thankyou for all your videos and hardwork and research on trek, trekking or for goodness sake just THANKYOU and know that there are many people who enjoy what you have given all of US and know that you are APPRECIATED !!! ...yours Keith Vernon Lewis

I have a copy of that "Spaceflight Chronology" that the flat wedge/cone Bonaventure came from. And honestly, I like the idea that Cochrane was an alien, and that Humanity didn't come up with the warp drive system on our own. I think it sells the idea of a Federation much better; two different (though not totally) races coming together for the improvement of both. ... I may also be biased toward some of the other designs in the book. Lookin' at you, Messier class.

1650 Bonaventure last for 98 years. *Laughs in Excelsior class* FYI There's a Excelsior class refit in the 25th century called the Archer class, that has a quantum slipstream warp core, multi spectral phasers and shields, tri cobalt devices, and is basically upgraded to state of the art. It was retrofitted (not a minor retrofit this time) after the Odyssey class [Enterprise-F] proved itself. I wouldn't be surprised if an Excelsior is fitted with a temporal warp core and is still in service in the 29th century.

I'm sure you get a lot of flakk from minor mistakes or missing an obscure reference mentioned by a off screen unaccredited character at the last minute of an episode somewhere. But as a fan of your videos and content, I'm happy to have found and followed your channel. You keep deep lore fun and worth watching. Thank You.

I kinda like the 2151 Bonaventure, it reminds me rather a lot of the original Battlestar Galactica in design

My favorite parts are every time you said "USHERED IN A NEW INTERSTELLAR AGE OF EXPLORATION FOR MANKIND!", lol It's fun exploring weird/broken parts of canon, and really highlights the reason it's good to think about canon early if you're ever gonna worry about it XD

A heroic attempt to make sense of all the Bonaventures! 👍

You forgot the USS Bonaventure that was mentioned in TOS episode, Balance of Terror.

The Bonaventure class's design looks like it could be a direct successor to the NX. Discarding the twin boom tail for a single larger central hull, and a proper shuttle bay feels like something ship designers would do with the experience of the NX design behind them.

Frankly the show that has more canon issues in it's expanded universe is Doctor Who.

The Bonaventure a legacy name that doesn't fit perfectly well in canon even when it makes it on screen:P

There's a starship named the Drake or was it the USS LOLLYPOP

Perhaps the TAS Bonaventure could be the first Starfleet ship fitted with the same style of Warp Drive that the Constitution class uses. Though for what "Style" could specifically refer to I really have no idea.

Small correction HMCS not HCMS for Canadian ships. Seriously love these videos man! Keep it up!

Truly a Gordian Knot to unwind. Well done. 👍

I had a photo of the Bonaventure-class from a Star Trek calendar that I had once and it was one of my favorite pre-TOS designs. I really think that class of ship should be canon. Very well done video.

Wish we could get the animated version as a playable ship in STO( with a version of a 22nd century version based off the Yorktown from Star Trek Legacy). It would be fun.

I always saw that the Bonaventure seen in TAS preceded the Constitution-class.

4:51, Blink twice if you need help, Rick!

Thank you kindly for all these wonderful videos...would it be possible to make one talking about the smaller star ships? I find them cozy :) Oh, and maybe one about the Ranger in interstellar, such a realistic approach to something we may be able to build soon. Thanks!

Those time line and speed issues always remind me of the "Transwarp" drive of the NX-2000 Excelsior and the changed warp scale they use in TNG. I like to imagine they made some sort of "upgrade" to their warpdrives. And since they work a bit differently afterwards, they changed the scale. The Exelsior's Transwarp was just an early experiment on said changes.

I like how you accent the point of “USHERING IN A NEW AGE OF EXPLORATION” every time... lol

That Bonaventure design made by Tobin Dax looks pretty cool. I wouldn't mind that being incorporated into canon.

You're right about the DIDO class. Honestly, surprised we don't get more modern ships called the Argonaut.

Honestly, I hope we see the Bonaventure class in a future show, I really like it as a bridge between the NX & Constitution, also we got totally cheated outta seeing Khan's ship in Into darkness!!!

I have a suggestion for a video. You could talk about Star Trek crossovers. There have been several crossovers with a different Star Trek series interacting with characters from different IPs such as Star Trek: The Animated Series crossing over with Transformers, Star Trek: The Next Generation crossing over with Doctor Who, and the Kelvin Timeline Star Trek crossing over with Green Lantern.

So I take Scotty saying that "It was the first vessel to have warp drive installed" to mean that it was the first to not have warp drive as an initial part of the design, but that the warp drive was put in later. One doesn't install an engine into a car, it is just built with an engine. This may (or may not) fix what would otherwise be a continuity error, as all the other ships were just built with the warp drives already part of the vessel.

From another piece of my favorite fiction... The Bonaventure was the name of the ship that was built by The castaways in the book The Mysterious Island by Jules Verne. It wasn't actually made to get home because it didn't have that kind of range. It was merely made to visit nearby islands.

1:08 Blimey! A ship launched in 15567 with sails that was decommissioned nearly fourteen centuries earlier? Must have been a time ship in disguise!

Have you ever considered going over Nomad and possible origins of Tan Ru? In the episode: The Changeling S2/E3. ?pace probe was launched from Earth during the early 21st century that collided with and mixed up with Tan Ru probe and began killing lifeforms. It was one of the most powerful and deadly of the series, one planet in particular with over 4 billion inhabitants wiped out.

I love your videos! Thanks for all your hard work! Would you do a list of best fan films? Best scripts, effects, and closest to canon.

Absolutely love the videos

This is by far my favorite ship from the animated series. It's just a chubby, cute little enterprise.

I quite like the look of the Bonaventure class ship designed by Dax.

@Certifiably Ingame - the 2051 (Warp 2.5) ship looks very much like the Battle Star Galactica ...

I dig the look of that boneventure class tos ship. Just from an engineering perspective, it makes a lot more sense than the enterprise with its giant, stupid neck

Just FYI it's H.M.C.S Bonaventure not H.C.M.S. Still an enjoyable video. 🖖 (Also pretty sure she was navy 😁)

Suggestion: The Kzinti. They got another reference in Picard, so they're still canon. If Enterprise had had a fifth season, they intended to do a Kzinti episode. For those who aren't aware, Kzinti come from Larry Niven's Protector/Ringworld series, and he gave permission for them to be used in the Star Trek Animated Series, where, they more or less lifted one of Niven's stories featuring the Kzinti.

I've kinda made my own canon when it comes to the Bonaventure. Considering that in STO I named my TOS ship after the the Bonaventure in the animated series. I found it crazy how the TOS missions in STO actually coenside with the Bonaventures story from TAS. The Bonaventure in TAS was lost in a time warp and low and behold your ship in the TOS missions gets lost ansf sent into the future!!!! And considering I named my STO ship before I figured out the how the agents of yesterday's missions ended. I was more then happy to be "living out canon" in STO XD

The Bonaventure class reminds me of an old WWII Spitfire.

You're close. Its HMCS not HCMS, and it was give to the Royal Canadian Navy, not the Army. But that said, go Royal Canadian Air Force!!

Between Dr. Alex Clarke and Drachinifel I think you'd find all sorts of new Naval History to dig into.

actually part of me thinks that first contact caused a paradox that slightly altered the universe, one that was required to save the federation but also caused irreversible harm to the timeline, so the Cochrane we know is different from the oringal for all we know, but with the paradox we will never know that oringal timeline

Lol. Love your videos. Not stiff and unfunny like some other content makers. May you live long an prosper.

Hey, that's my name. Neat.

Damn't Rick now I have to name one of my STO ships that.

I quite like the sleek design of the one with the secondary hull incorporated into the saucer. Too bad this wasn’t used in a show, it would be a good candidate for a pre-constitution class vessel.

Glad that Ric considers ST: TAS canon

Thanks for the headache. lol

i could see the C1-21 craft as being a reworking of the Phoenix Cochrane did to be the first human ship to *sustain* warp travel.. as the Phoenix only travelled at warp for a few seconds, basically what later eras would call a "warp jump". design wise it looks rather like they took the Phoenix's drive section and added a big reactor and fuel tanks, a radiation shield, and a larger crew module to it. agreed that the old alpha centauri Bonaventure craft doesn't fit details wise, but the design of it at least would fit into trek lore, perhaps as an early starfleet vessel during the warp 2 era, as we know from ENT that earth's freighters were crawling their way around at low warp for decades. Starfleet having a ship able to make similar trips wouldn't be too unlikely.

Just wanna say love ur content

There is a way to unravel (at least) some of this ball of yarn. In "The Time Trap" episode of Star Trek Animated, Scotty identifies Bonaventure as being "first starship to have warp drive installed". This would seem to contradict Star Trek Enterprise, in which Archer's Enterprise and her sister ships were designed and built with Warp 5 engines. But no so fast: Archer, Trip and their colleagues never referred to their Warp 5 engines as "warp drive". Instead, they toasted to Warp 7 as "the next generation". They also expressed wonder and envy of the Vulcans and other spacefaring races who had already surpassed Warp 7, apparently this was a major technical milestone like Warp 2. Perhaps Bonaventure started out as an Earth prototype, equipped with Warp 5 engines for early testing purposes, and later became one of the first Federation starships, fitted with new technology of the 2160s. If technical refinements finally made a Federation starship capable of sustaining Warp 7 a reality, Starfleet no doubt hailed this achievement by dubbing the new generation of nacelle propulsion as true "warp drive". This would be an honor bestowed to starships capable of sustaining at least Warp 7.

AHAHAHH! Yeah, even I'll admit the lore can get kooky in places!!!! :-D

Just a small note, Canadian ships are labeled HMCS not HCMS

You should do a Legacy video on Earth Spacedock!

could u please do one for the ships named Daedalus, or ones named for famous starfleet captains? USS archer, USS janeway etc

As Robert Meyer Burnett said that even though the books aren’t canon but they're still Star Trek with continuing lore. Doesn’t matter what some stranger says on the internet; if you personally enjoy it then its Star Trek. I have enjoyed some of the Star Trek novels such as Destiny, Typhoon Pact, The Fall, Body Electric and Department of Temporal Investigations. I don’t care if you say it’s not Alpha Canon because these stories feel more like Star Trek than Discovery, Picard and Lower Decks combined.

The bonaventure class tho👌

As a teenager I was a member of a Star Trek fan club. We pretended we were members of Starfleet and the crew of a made up ship that had been based on a previously existing ship. The USS Bonaventure. As there has already been 3 ships to bear the name as we had found records mentioning 2 of the 3 with the most recent having been NCC-1845-B we designated ours the NCC-1845-C. And if I'm not mistaken the B was the same class as the Enterprise C. As such, I thank you for this little trip down memory lane.

Welcome to the new age of interstellar exploration for maaankiinnd, presented to you by Rick.

It was featured in the Star Trek novel Federation.

First, I think it's fitting that the starships' history is confusing and contradictory. It fits with the sailing ship history you showed... so many real ships were named, renamed, sold, refit, and renamed again, that's the best contradictory continuity ever. But one thought on the Phoenix and Zefram Cochrane... One possibility is that it wasn't capable of sustaining warp any longer than it did, and the Bonaventure was the first one to actually be able to get anywhere past Mars orbit. Another is that they didn't have to actually exceed the speed of light to have a successful warp field test, in Trek we occasionally hear warp speeds below warp 1. TMP comes to mind, Kirk orders Warp 1, and then Sulu counts up "warp point seven, warp point eight, warp one", then the wormhole forms. It could be that the Phoenix doesn't actually exceed warp 1, just shifts into warp and drops back out before that.

Plans! I want the plans, deck layouts, schematics.

I believe there is historical references where two ships bears the same names during same time. Although they were from different navies. Who to say different shipyards name their ships Bonadventure despite both being in Starfleet

In college we had a building named after Saint Bonaventure

Awesome video as always...... But it's HMCS Bonaventure.

Any chance you will cover ships from star trek klingon academy?

Do we *have* to consider First Contact canon? I know it doesn't make a lot of sense for a human to be native to Alpha Centauri before the invention of warp drive, but please? Can we have the old Zefram Cochrane back?

15567-1594(?) Ya got a typo bruh.

You should do a video on the USS Hood.

UNSS Bonaventure. Derp class starship.

>15567 - 1594(?) - HMS (Elizabeth) Bonaventure I'm gonna assume the sails and cannons are purely aesthetic, and anything hostile around it might as well be Oberth-class....

Could you do a video about the name Akula.

Wait, two Zefram Cochranes? 🤔

Can you do one on the USS Duncan?

Messy, messy, messy! ;-) The Bonaventure from TAS could be post-NX, true, but not necessarily. There's several things to keep in mind: Firstly, we have to remember that the NX-01 is NOT Earth's first deep exploration vessel. As of 2151, it was simply the fastest. We have to remember that there are over ninety years of "forgotten" spaceflight history between "First Contact" and "Enterprise." TOS, TAS, TNG, and even VOY all chronicle multiple deep space exploratory voyages and colonization expeditions, however improbable or amazing for the fledgling Earth, decades before the NX-class...and it is all canon. The most memorable, albeit baffling, of these early voyages would probably be the mysterious voyage of the S.S. Valiant, which somehow made it to the galaxy's edge in the late 21st century. (We tend to assume the outer galaxy's edge, but I wonder if it might actually be the upper or lower edge of the galaxy; we can't just think 2D, we have to think 3D. Maybe they just went straight UP or DOWN instead of straight out. Then it could become plausible.) According to TAS, Earth even experienced some form of violent conflict with an alien species (the Kzinti) decades before the Xindi and Romulans. (I suspect it was rather small scale, ship to ship skirmishes between primitive Earth vessels and an equally primitive foe, not a major war). So, where does the Bonaventure fit? Well, our second thing to remember is that the NX-class was also not the first class of larger, "sophisticated" navy-style starships--only the fastest, at that time. In "Enterprise" we see multiple classes of sophisticated Starfleet starships, such as the Intrepid-type and others. Star Trek Beyond introduces the warp-four Franklin. And the "Beta Canon" novels suggest that the Daedalus-class was actually a pre-NX design, which was upgraded to modern specks. The Daedalus is a rather impressive class of ship, as is the Intrepid, as is the Franklin. The Bonaventure is vaguely similar in structure to both the Daedalus and the NX-refit, in that they all three have a saucer (or spherical) command and crew section, a separate engineering section connected by a neck, and two nacelles, which "preview" the Constitution class, decades later. The Bonaventure as seen in TAS was a sloppily drawn representation of the "real" ship, but the bulbous center in the middle of the saucer actually has an NX or pre-NX era vibe if you imagine it in a gun metal color, like the NX-class. But we also could conjecture that it's a rather small vessel, its saucer section as small or smaller than the Franklin's, maybe only a dozen or so crewmen. I could envision it as a very early (decades before ENT), very small, low warp attempt at a military/exploratory starship. Smaller, less sophisticated than the later NX-era, but extremely impressive for its time.

Didn't expect CI do a childish "bhhht"

Given their penchant for temporal incursions it is no wonder everything is a hot mess. I mean how else do you explain HMS (Elizabeth) Bonaventure 15567 - 1594(?)

USS Excelsior and USS Pegasus legacy if you would please make it so, good sir

Please do a video on the Nyberrite Alliance!

The HMS Elizabeth Bonaventure was comissioned in the year 15,567?!

When in doubt, blame time travel.

HMCS Her Majesty's Canadian Ship

I hope there's a starship named Malahayati. 1st Woman Navy admiral in modern history.

Wow, so the _Elizabeth Bonaventure_ served from the 16th millennium to the 16th century. Cool. ........Wait, that's moving _backward_ in time! Was it a TARDIS?!

TOS and TAS came first, std, enterprise, and all books are discredited as they don't count. So in TAS if Scotty said something that wasn't countered in TOS then he is right, std, books(aren't canon) and ent are all wrong. It's as simple and clean cut as that.

Oh boy ... just wait till "Strange New Worlds" starts adding to the lore. You think things are messy now. 😱

Do one about how people view substance use & abuse in the Star Trek universe, or how people use holo decks as entertainment compared to T.V. or RU-vid today.

Forgot Stafleet Battles and StarFleet Command ,

I think all that time travel in Trek causes all the inaccuracies in canon