Very strong disagree. The miter saw is the most used tool in my shop. It is the best power tool for cutting down long boards. No other power tool can do it as accurately or safely.
"Cutting down", I'm not so sure. His point was exactly that. If all you're doing is whacking down boards to finish on another tool, there really isn't a need. If the saw in intended to make the final cut, yes, of course a good SCMS is needed. I think it video is a bit skewed this way. He says everything but isn't all that clear. The other exception is boards over three or four feet long. Cross-cuts on a table saw aren't safe with long boards. The SCMS is a lot safer. In short, an SCMS is faster, more accurate, more versatile, and safer, than other tools to do the job. If you don't care about any of that, they're not needed. OTOH, knowing what I know now, it wouldn't have been anywhere near the top of my tool purchase list.
I mostly agree with you, except for the accuracy. Even after spending a lot of time on adjustments I can’t get extremely accurate cuts on the miter saw. The only thing I use it for is quickly cutting down rough lumber. It sounds like you do fall into one of the 4 categories of people that need a miter saw. Which one is you? Just curious if I got it right.
Yep, completely agree! If I was starting over I’d have to really think about buying a miter saw or not. It does come in handy, but if I needed to get rid of a tool because of limited shop space the miter saw would definitely go.
@@biscuittreewoodworks Are you talking to me? If I had to put myself into only one of your categories, I fall mostly into the tool junkie list. I have (effectively) unlimited space, so dedicating 16', or more, against a wall isn't a big deal. My basement is cut up into a lot of smaller rooms. They're all supporting the walls of rooms upstairs, which are all supporting the roof. I do have one 50' wall on the end of the house but the room is only 9' wide so I can't reasonably have a rear rail saw. I sold my Bosch, and bought a Festool Kapex (I said I was a tool junkie😁) because it was a forward rail saw. I've never had a problem with its accuracy. Though it doesn't do the same thing, I would certainly buy a track saw before a miter saw. I use it more than my table saw. but couldn't live without the table saw.
No way! A RAS is a dangerous snake, just hiding in the weeds to ready to bite. Mine almost got me three times and did get a friend who was standing in the wrong place (kickback). They're also inaccurate (for woodworking), for the one of the same reasons they're dangerous. The arm flexes. They're incredibly dangerous for cuts other than miters. I hadn't used mine in 30 years and just recently gave it away. I have no use for them.
Good deal! If that’s what you are comfortable with and do it safely there’s nothing wrong with that! A lot of people will say they are too dangerous, but if used properly it’s not that different from a lot of other tools we use.
@@biscuittreewoodworks Like I said, I had at least three instances where the thing tried to kill me. The scariest one was when internal stress in a board closed the kerf to close, and the blade jumped on top of the board, making it come straight at me, at quite a high speed. The flex in the arm allowed enough deflection to allow it to happen. I had many times when this sort of thing stopped the blade dead, but it didn't make me s%it my pants. I also had several kickbacks when ripping. Kickback can pull the hand into the blade and out-ripping is just plain dumb. No thanks. They're not accurate, or needed. They're great in a lumber yard where they only used to whack 2x4s in half but they've been banned even for that use, too, because they are so dangerous.
This is clearly just your opinion and I’m happy if it works for you. I know many makers that use the mitersaw for finish cuts, myself included. Admittedly, I have a Kapex, but that’s the reason I bought it, for the accuracy it provides. I could make the statement that you just can’t use a mitersaw correctly, but that might not be true. It just might not fit your work flow/style, but. Doesn’t make the tool over or underrated.
You are correct, I’m just sharing my opinions here and I completely understand and expect a lot of people will disagree with me. I have no problem with that. I just want to get some people thinking before they run out and buy a tool they may not need. I know a few woodworkers who say they make finish cuts on the miter saw and every one that does has the Kapex! But that’s far from a standard miter saw! I say the tool is overrated because of the number of videos on RU-vid about buying a miter saw or building a miter saw station or cabinet. I don’t think there is another tool in woodworking that has so many videos about it.
I call it "Tool Acquisition Syndrome." I have it. We all have it. I repair furniture and restore antiques. My miter saw is my go to powered saw, but I use my little 6" flexible pull saw most. Great video as usual, thanks!
Yes, I'd like to see the tapering jig and the framing jig please. Those would be very useful. The only use I have for the miter saw is breaking down 8 foot long boards (and longer). I rarely use compound miter cuts. If ever. I have a 14 inch cut capacity with the slider. So you make very good points! Thank you.
Anything over like 3 or 4 foot should never be cross cut on a table saw unless you have a rather expensive special table add ons to support the over hang. It’s unsafe (you generally move your hand closer to the blade to counter the weight of longer boards) and less repeatedly accurate, even with a sled. Get a proper, accurate miter saw will give you better, smoother and more accurate cuts. 2 things I noticed, the Bosch glide (and clones of) I’m sorry to say is about the least accurate sliding miters saws I’ve ever used. I’ve had them, and got rid of them. Makita is about the best, and for a budget the Hitachi (Metabo now) are extremely accurate. Also a 10 inch, thin kerf blade will give you much better accuracy, as a 12” blade will flex quite a bit under the pressure applied when attached by the smaller arbors used on miter saws. No one uses a full kerf blade on miter saws generally as they are too heavy and take more power to cut the wider cross section than the smaller motors can handle over the long term. Think about it, There is a reason 99% of all tablesaws are 10” not 12”. Other advantages are no need to switch out blades constantly on the table saw to switch from rip to cross cutting. MUCH safer, more accurate and repeatability when cutting longer boards on the miter saw. As to space, simple build a smaller stand that the height matches that of the outfeed of the table saw and use one outfeed table for both saws. Then it’s footprint becomes one of the smallest. 🤔
Thanks for the tips! Long boards can be cut safely at the table saw using roller stands to support the off hanging boards. I know a lot of woodworkers with different miter saws and they all generally agree the miter saw is not accurate enough for furniture building. The only on on the market that might be is the Festool Kapex, but I’m not about to spend more on a miter saw than most people spend on a table saw!
@@muddywater6856 agree, the Makita is as accurate if not actually more so, the dust collection is better wit the Festool, but only very slightly, the adjustments are a tad simpler on the Festool also, but honeslty, the unit isn't as accurate as my 25 yr old Hitachi.
@Thomllama my most accurate miter saw is 10 inch all cast iron Makita from the mid 80s. No bevel and weighs north of 80 pounds! Cost about $270 dollars new, which was a lot of money at the time. It was an upgrade from my 9-inch Delta with the particle board table and push-button brake. Before that I had a Stanley manual with a backsaw Miter saws have come a long way. (I'm old too)
@@muddywater6856 yup, my best still to this day was an old Makita 1013 slider, with the massive base! Friggin thing was super accurate and the big base was great for material stability, some of the new Makita’s have gone back to the big base! Way better! Though heavy!
Uggghh! I totally agree. One of the first big ticket items I bought when I started woodworking was a miter saw and a stand. I then put it on a wheeled base - and I have hardly used it. I've probably used it 1/10 of the time I have used the next least used big ticket woodworking item - which I can't think which item that would be off the top of my head.
I do believe you missed a way you can make repeatable length cuts on the table saw using a miter sled and a small block clamped to the fence. This will allow you to make larger cuts depending on the size of your wing (hope this makes sense )
You mean in a way other than how the stop block works on the sled? I’ve seen people attach a long arm to the sled with a block on the end to act like an extension wing for longer boards. Is that what you’re referring to?
@biscuittreewoodworks it's hard for me to explain through writing but I found this video that explains what I was referring to! Thanks for all the wonderful content! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rpfZoSQsb7w.htmlsi=6HZcYOvjZv1IIqVt
Oh, I see! Yes, that is a great option for repeatable cuts. I didn’t think about it while making this video but I do mention it in a couple others I’ve done. Thanks for pointing that out!
Have a miter saw and only use it for remodeling work. For furniture I use a jigsaw for break down and table saw or track saw for everything else. I have a small basement shop and do not have room to setup the miter saw.
Awesome video! I think the arguments about the miter saw come from how encompassing the word "woodworker" is covering both carpentry and fine furniture crafts and everything in between. All of them use wood but not all of them buy it at the big blue or orange store. 😂
True, woodworking is a very broad term! My goal here was to get people thinking and spark a bit of healthy debate, and I feel I have accomplished that! Hopefully I will even save a few beginners a bit of money they didn’t need to spend!
I got rid of my miter saw almost a year ago and I have zero regrets. My shop just isn't big enough to justify the loss of space. Between my jig saw, track saw, and table saw I can make just about any type of cut I need.
If I had to downsize, the miter saw and saw station would be the first major tool to go. I use it, but there are too many other ways to do the same tasks to justify keeping it around when space is limited.
MFT is hands down the way to go if space is an issue. My shop is about 2000 sq feet, and I still use the MFT as my primary work station. The advantage to plenty of room is having dedicated stations to handle certain operations. Example is I have one table saw used only for a dado blade. Minimizing set up time is key to production time. Also have over 20 routers....dedicated bits.
I have a DeWalt miter saw on one of the home-built stands with wings I can move up on either side. My miter saw is not a slider so certainly suffers from limited cut capacity but perhaps retains a bit better accuracy. My case for the miter saw is the ability to put a ripping blade in my table saw. If I'm building with solid wood I don't usually have a lot of wide boards or panels to cross cut so my miter saw works well, and I have the correct blade in the table saw then for ripping. I need far less blade changing on the table saw that way. Just one man's opinion, and not a particularly experienced man at that.
That's great if it fits your workflow! I say don't change it if it works! As for the table saw blades, I use a combination blade 90% of the time. I don't change back and forth between a rip and crosscut blade.
Awesome! It's on my list of things to do! As for cheap, that's a relative term. I aim for high quality at a reasonable price. Cheap plans usually are thrown together quickly with out much thought or detail. My plans won't be the cheapest you'll find, but they will be among the best! I have plans for a cross cut sled on my website right now if you want to see the general price and quality. Sign up for my email list to get notified when I have new plans available and I often send out discount codes in my emails!
Social media has made these garage warriors think they are carpenters. "In all my years of woodworking I've never needed a compound mitre" these guys are delusional thinking they are carpenters.
Totally agree. If I had purchased my tablesaw first. I would've never bought the miter saw. There is nothing I can do on the mitersaw that I can't do with my table saw
Yes...and no. At work (flooring installer) the sliding compound miter saw is the #1 cutting tool we use. At home, in my hobby shop I own one, but rarely use it, choosing hand held circular saw over the miter saw. There is no limit to the circular saw's cutting capacity and it lives under my table saw, thus taking up no space. I suppose if I had to cut crown molding around the house (fat chance) I'd drag out the miter saw, but I can do just about everything I need with the table saw or circular saw. Now, if I really HAD to have a repeatable crooscutting machine, and I had the soace for a dedicated bench I would choose a radial arm saw over the sliding miter saw. Power and stability are the deciding factors. Imagine running your miter saw...non stop...for thirty minutes. Not gonna happen.
Yeah, those are all perfectly reasonable options! Flooring installation would be another one I would add to the same category as trim carpenter that definitely needs a miter saw.
It really depends on what you are doing with it. If you are only cutting 3"- 4" wide boards then a 10" miter saw is just fine. If you are going to be cutting 8"- 9" boards, then the 10" saw is probably not going to have enough cut capacity.
Mitre saws are a recent development for construction, both faster and safer for framing and finish carpentry than anything available in the past. They are not really intended for furniture making or joinery. Here in NZ they are on every job site but I've never seen one in a joinery workshop. Just a matter of horses for courses.
I wouldn't give up my miter saw -- and I see that you also do not, despite the insightful commentary. Mine takes up only the width of its base on its cabinet. To the right, my radial arm saw table and my table saw extension are the same height as my miter saw cutting surface -- that is 6+ feet long from the MS blade. To the left, I have a 4+ foot long hardwood board 11" wide that folds up from the MS table (in front of my sharpening station) with an integrated tape measure, to support boards up to 5 feet long on that side. Keeping the MS well-adjusted makes it as accurate as anything, and a good blade gives very clean cuts without having to move a long piece across the TS. All factors work wonderfully together.
Well unlike most other commenter's, I 100% agree. I have built all types of furniture; chairs, tables, humidors, etc, and I don't have a miter saw setup in my shop. The tablesaw sled is my go to for all cuts because of accuracy and repeatability.
Yes, that has been my experience and what I’ve heard from other furniture makers. I believe a lot of the people disagreeing are carpenters which I acknowledged in the video they definitely would benefit from having a miter saw.
@@biscuittreewoodworks yeah, don't get me wrong, a miter saw is extremely useful in carpentry, but less so in fine woodworking. I will eventually buy a Festool miter saw for my next shop, but I can still do all the cuts I require with my Incra miter sled right now
@@AggieTreedthe Festool Kapex is really nice! I know a couple guys who have it and say it’s great for them. I just can’t justify it right now for as little as I use the miter saw I have.
Totally agree. Im using the Makita LS1019 10" Sliding mitre. Total disappointment. The detent plate is a common issue. Trying to calibrate it is also hell since the angle adjustment is super stiff. I have to knock it to adjust, not the most ideal method. Once u change angles and then back to 90°, the painful calibration process begins again. What a pain in the ass ...
That’s unfortunate. Miter saws just aren’t made for high precision or good dust collection unless you are willing to spend some major bucks on a Festool Kapex!
I think it's not necessary. But I do quite like not having to swap my table saw blade out as much. It's nice to go between rip and cross cuts without screwing around with unplugging things and changing blades and whatnot.
@@biscuittreewoodworks does it cut plywood cleanly? I've been swapping between the fine crosscut blade for plywood and a ripping blade for ripping edge banding and it's a pain
If the problem is space. Miter saw on a portable stand eliminates the problem. Im a commercial carpenter and when in the shop making whatever the miter saw follows me in the set up. Only one step away. If working in a garage put it in the driveway. I wouldnt build a permanent place for it, make it portable
Portable stands work great for some people. I use larger, heavier machines that aren’t easily portable and are connected to my dust collection system. My shop has AC so I avoid opening the garage doors, not to mention my driveway is fairly steep.
Not sure "Overrated" is the right word to use in your title. But I agree miter and SCMS are promoted, spoken of eloquently maybe more than they need to be. Other saws can do everything a miter/SCMS can do. But usually not as quickly or easily. Probably the only workers who require a miter/SCMS are finish trimmers and house construction crews. I have an SCMS and enjoy using it. Not needed, but it is appreciated. Especially when making multiple short cuts. Boom, boom, boom, done.
It’s a strong statement, but I feel it’s justified if you see the number of videos on RU-vid about buying a miter saw and building a miter saw station. There might even be more miter saw videos than table saw videos!
@@biscuittreewoodworks True on every RU-vid video having a miter saw station built into their shop. And a dedicated dust collection and clamping and measuring system. It is overdone. I have my SCMS on a big Ridgid cart I bought at Home Depot. The SCMS is useful and fast. You can get a lot done quick. I'm happy to have it, even if I can do everything it can do with other tools.
I disagree. My miter saw is used more than any other power tools I have in my shop. I build a lot of things like cabinets and a miter saw is great for cutting rails, stiles and face frames to exact length after ripping on table saw. Without my miter saw, tasks would take a lot longer and length accuracy would be difficult on a board over 4' long. A miter saw should be your first power tool, aside from drill,s drivers wtc.
Completely understandable! I know a lot of people will disagree with my opinions here! I just want people to think about whether they really need the tool before spending a lot of money and space for a miter saw when there are other options. I also know some people will find them completely indispensable in their shop, which is why I listed the categories of people that need a miter saw. I’m assuming you fall into one of those categories?
@@biscuittreewoodworks Says the man with a $3000+ Sawstop table saw and other capable tools. A novice should never buy a table saw first as their go-to wood cutting machine. The vast majority of ER visits are from table saws vs. any other workshop machine. Novices don't understand the dangers of wood tension that binds the blade and chunk of wood in your face at 100MPH. Or ripping thin stock against a fence. Or picking up an offcut before the blade has stopped. Table saw guards get in the way and many people just toss them. Buy a miter saw as your first machine tool and learn how to use it. If you decide you don't need it for what you build later, you don't need a video like this to tell you that. Geez.
The dangers you listed are still things people have to learn at the table saw and not the miter saw. My goal here is to get people thinking about whether they actually need a tool before spending a lot of money on it. Believe it or not, I didn’t always have a $3000 table saw. I started with nothing but a circular saw and a drill. My first “major” tool purchase was a $150 table saw, which I quickly realized was a waste of money. I’ve bought many tools over the years. Some great, others garbage. I’m just trying to help beginners make good decisions. If it doesn’t apply to you right now, then I’m sorry the video wasn’t for you. I hope that maybe the next one will help you in some other way!
@@biscuittreewoodworks All of us woodworkers started out with basic tools, unless your dad was a carpenter and you inherited his stuff. I think I have well over $100k in tools now, when my first tool was a corded drill.
Not sure what you mean by track saw experience? I just recently got my track saw. Also, I’ve never claimed to be a carpenter. That is a totally different skill set and work flow from furniture building.
HAHAHAHA. Joke's on you, my circular saw cost a bit more than my 12" Bosch. Oh..wait...I really didn't NEED the Festool HK-55. Shoot.... 😞 Thanks for another great video!
I kept thinking the same thing and that led me to making this video! I knew a lot of people would disagree but also believed a lot would agree with me on this!
Definitely interested in those 2 jigs you mentioned in the vid; great stuff as usual! I have an old 12in sliding miter taking up more than its fair share of precious workshop space that may get a for sale sign soon...
The DIYer has gotten hornswaggled into believing that a SCMS is a must. WRONG! Find a good condition RAS and go to town. The RAS is limited on left hand miters but you can flip the board. A home made angle jig will keep your accuracy in line.
If you are comfortable with the radial arm saw that’s fine. Some people believe they are too dangerous, but I think if used properly they aren’t much different than a lot of other tools we use.
Strong disagree. Choose the best tool for the job. And often the miter saw is the best tool for the job. And a miter station is no dead space, if you design it properly
@@DerberAlter thanks for letting me know! So do you use it for quickly cutting down rough lumber or do you use it for finished cuts? I don’t usually get the accuracy I need for finished cuts, but that depends on the type of woodworking you do.
The issue most woodworkers have with it is the table is usually not perfectly square to the sanding belt. That makes it useless for anything that needs precision. But for rough work it’s a quick and easy option. Just understand its limitations and use it with that in mind.
I just built a mitre saw station. Loving the efficiency and dust collection. Converts to a workbench too for saving space. Love the video man! I think it’s the beauty of woodworking to have so many ways to get things done 😊
Thanks Tom! Yes there are so many ways to do various tasks in the shop, and as long as you are happy with the results and no one gets hurt then there’s nothing wrong with it!
Your accuracy problem is because of the slider, the Bosch in particular. I am a carpenter and I find the Bosch to be Impossible to get accuracy out of. If you want an accurate miter saw, the Dewalt 12 inch compound miter saw is the most accurate you can get. But not the slider, the sliders just add too much opportunity for mechanical movement. Granted, a lot of the miter stations you see on RU-vid are poorly thought out in my opinion.
This is the comment I was waiting to post. Sliders are inaccurate. Non sliders for me. Wider cuts, use a track saw. Carpenter of 52 years, and finish work for the last 30. Electric Mitersaws were not a common job site tool until the middle 70s, and we did fine.
I had a Dewalt miter saw before the Bosch. It wasn’t a slider. It was inaccurate and couldn’t cut all the way across the boards because they were too wide so it was completely useless for me in my shop. But you are a carpenter, and as I said in the video a carpenter is one of the people I think would definitely need a miter saw. Most furniture makers can do without it all together.
@@biscuittreewoodworks I’m so tired of the idea that carpenters don’t need to Make accurate cuts, but woodworkers do. A good carpenter absolutely needs to make accurate cuts on stain grade trim. If you can’t make miters to within 0.1 of a degree, it will look like garbage. And I am being very specific when I say 12” miter saw, I I’m talking about the 12”double bevel miter saw. The 10” can be ok sometimes, but there are a bunch that have a warp in the fence making it impossible to get accurate cuts. I have used Bosch, Makita, Hitachi, Ridgid, Milwaukee, and Dewalt miter saws, sliders and non-sliders. The Dewalt 12 inch Double Bevel compound miter saw with a full 1/8” cerf blade is by far the best.
I had that Dewalt miter saw years ago and talked about it in the video. Again, I’m sure it’s great for carpenters, but it did not have enough cut capacity for the wood that I work with for furniture. I was always having to flip the board over and cut from the other side to make a complete cut across the board. The cut lines will never line up perfectly making it useless as a precision cutting tool in this case. I’m not trying to belittle carpenters, I’m just saying we have different needs and we are doing different tasks that require different approaches.
I'm amateur carpenter/DIY. You're right at the end. It's my most used and versatile saw. And if I didn't "need" anything it was any of the services you advertised. Nice short video.
G’day Mate, I have a mitre saw, and yes I only do cross cuts. It lives on an old IKEA bench & not in Mitre saw Palace. My little workshop is a single car garage & floor space is a premium, thinking back, I’d use the table saw. BTW do you have plans for the framing jig?
The frame jig is on my list of videos and plans to to, but I don't have it just yet! If you go to my website and sign up for email updates, you'll be notified when I have the plans ready and maybe some discounts as well! biscuittreewoodworks.com
Couldn't disagree more. A quality sliding compound miter saw (as apposed to a limited "miter saw") is one of the most valuable tools in any quality shop. And as a side note, you need to learn how to properly use the Japanese saw. Its a pull saw, not push/pull saw.
You are talking about your shop and your workflow. As for me and a lot of woodworkers I know, a miter saw is a redundant tool that takes up a lot of valuable space. Depending on the type of work you do, the miter saw may be a valuable tool or completely unnecessary. As for my hand saw technique, there is definitely room for improvement! Any suggestions?
I went a long time w/o a miter saw, but I've had one for about 6 months now. No, it's not necessary, but it sure is handy to have it always set up and ready to use. I agree, though, that the space is a challenge.
You dont meed a mitre saw if youve got table saw that cost loads more money 😆 what ! .... if you dont have table saw then id say a mitre saw is essential.
Not necessarily, a table saw can accomplish most tasks that a miter saw can, but not the other way around. There are a lot of woodworking tasks that cannot be done with a miter saw and must be done with a table saw. So look at what kind of woodworking projects and tasks you will be doing and make an informed decision on what tools you should have in your shop.
@@biscuittreewoodworks At least I stand on your side. Everything has its own optimal use conditions. Understanding this is the basis for using tools efficiently and happily, rather than creating trouble or danger for yourself.
The miter saw in my shop is primarily just for collecting dust or off sight work. I use the most maligned power tool the Radial Arm Saw yes it occupies lots of space but has a large cutting capacity with do cuts that are near impossible for other tools with extreme accuracy, although I use the table saw for most miter type cuts. I’ve been using the RAS since my teens like any other tool it can be dangerous.!
Radial arm saws get a lot of hate for being dangerous, but I think if you are using them correctly and carefully they aren’t that much more dangerous than a lot of the other tools we use.
I agree with you. Perhaps the argument is : first buy a table saw, then decide if you need a miter saw. In my case as a hobbyist with a contractor table saw on a wobbly table, YES! The muter saw is simply safer...
I got rid of mine a year ago. Never looked back! I never had a genuine use for it. Jigsaw for rough cutting, table saw for good accurate finish cuts. The space saving is more important.
I thought about getting rid of mine, but it does come in handy for quickly cutting down a bunch of rough lumber like I mentioned in the video. But if I was more limited on space, it would probably be the first tool to go!
Yes you can cut wood with any number of saws! Sigh. For my workworking a miter saw is essential. And my miter say is accurate. If I had to say which is the most overhyped tool in the typical non professional workshop it would be the ginormous table saw with its also huge out feed table. What are you cutting that needs such a monster? With a track saw sheet goods are a snap to size and take up next to no room. Since you have the monster saw, you have to use it for everything to justify the expense it to your partner. And then you need to build sleds. Its like using an F150 to buy groceries. Good click bait. Name the tool or brand, call it overrated and hey presto, views and comments.
Thanks for sharing your opinion on the subject! For me the table saw is essential! I use it on every single project and almost everyday I’m in the shop. I had two smaller table saws and grew beyond their capabilities very quickly! I have a huge outfeed table because it doubles as an assembly table. Thanks for watching and commenting!
